Can China Avoid the Soviet Union's Fate? | Asian American Issues

CAN CHINA AVOID THE SOVIET UNION'S FATE?

he People's Republic of China likes to compare itself with the United States. Both governments were forged to throw off the imperial yoke. Both are amalgams of many races and nationalities. Both are great continental powers capable of harnessing immense resources to promote national agendas around the world.
     Beijing's bosses cite these parallels to justify China's ambition of returning Taiwan to the fold -- forcibly if necessary -- and violently suppressing movements for Tibetan independence, Moslem separatism and religious tolerance. The party line: "In a few decades we will be as prosperous, unified and democratic as you Americans."
     Unfortunately, some observers see closer parallels to the former Soviet Union.
     Founded in 1910 to free Russian peasants from oppressive landowners and a weak imperial government, the Soviet government quickly and ruthlessly expanded into a superpower that rivaled the United States in military might and reach. On top of nearly 300 million citizens of several dozen captive nationalities, the Soviet Union became the puppetmasters of virtually every Eastern European government. By 1989 it was buckling under the burden of superpower competition. In 1991 the communists lost power to the reformist Yeltsin. The Soviet Union broke apart into Russia and a dozen independent republics. Today Russia is a nation of 150 million struggling to build a capitalist economy from the rubble of the communist meltdown.
     Among the Soviets' earliest converts were Mao Tsetung, Zhou Enlai and other young Chinese intellectuals who saw in communism salvation for the Chinese people from western imperialism and internal corruption. Mao's long struggle against Chiang Kaishek and the Kuomingtang would have ended disasterously without the support of dozens of ethnic minorities in northwestern China who believed his promise of ultimate political autonomy. Their help proved more valuable to Mao than the billions in American aid and direct military assistance to Chiang. By 1949 the Kuomingtang had fled to Taiwan and the PRC ruled the mainland.
     Beijing's bosses have been as ruthless as the Soviets in consolidating territory and suppressing separatist movements. But they have been far more successful in creating a functioning economy. They began capitalist reforms in 1979. By 2001 China's economy had become free enough to enter the World Trade Organization. For the past two decades it has grown at an average annual rate of 9%. Few of China's 1.25 billion go hungry and about 125 million enjoy living standards comparable to Malaysia and the Philippines. By some measure China has just surpassed Japan in GDP and will surpass the U.S. by 2025.
     But China's future as a united nation is far from assured.
     Even assuming peaceful reunification with Taiwan and victory over Tibetan separatists, Beijing's leaders face some big hurdles. They must integrate a billion subsistence-level farmers and workers into the consumer economy of the east coast or face ethnic discontent on a scale that would dwarf America's racial strife of the 1960s. Yet burdening the developed regions could breed separatist sentiment in Guangdong, Fujien, Manchuria and other regions. Over 100 languages and dialects are spoken in China. Long-suppressed religious minorities are becoming better organized thanks to the internet and other communications technology.
     Are China's prospects for staying united more like those of the U.S. or of the former Soviet Union?

(Updated )

To gzus in NY,

Science and archeology have long proven the Bible and the Torah to be materially false and incorrect. We now know that cool-looking guy you refer to as G-zus does not have long sexy hair, but instead looks like Brutus, Popeye’s bully, and half-black. http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/jesus/photo/zoom5.html Because of the Bible and the Torah, most Americans have become mindless idiots wanting to be ruled by the invisible dictator. What a complete waste of American democracy and freedom!

Last year, Rabbi David Wolpe became the first rabbi to publicly preach the Exodus did not occur as described in the Torah. Set yourself free, your God does not exist!

China is just about the only secular nation in the world advocating the truth of science. In the spiritual realm, it is at least 50 years ahead of the U.S and the rest of the world.

Amen!
Friday, May 17, 2002 at 00:03:12 (PDT)

It is interesting that gzus continually refers to plato and enlightenment in his argument agains all eastern 'atheists'.
I know that plato speaks of the philosopher king as one in a state of noesis, or light, which is an allusion to enlightenment. However, he is too canny a philosopher to indicate that he knows exactly what this enlightenment is, but indicates that it is a rational process which takes several decades of pure, dedicated study to reach through the pursuit of reason. Plato is also a little above saying that this enlightenment is for all, for he does mention that only those precious few born with gold in their souls, who are members of the philosopher class, are capable of reaching this ultimate state. To clarify, gold is an extremely rare metal, and the reason why Plato chooses it for this particular example in his myth of the metals is to allude to the distinction of this class and its members. I was wondering if through gzus 'Plato and western philosophy on a pedestal' argument and excessive China bashing he/she was simply trying to make Plato a Christian to us all, forgetting that Plato is too much in love with reason to equate god or religion with his notion of enlightenment. I can just imagine the snapping back of 'BUT GOD IS RATIONAL!'. However, no matter what our personal beliefs may be the fact remains that no philosopher has successfully justified god rationally. It is impossible to do so, and all philosphers and theologians admit that any conclusions drawn on the matter are nothing more than their own speculation. But this should be saved for a later forum, I apologize. If Japan apparently regressed because of a lack of ability to understand the necessary 5% missing from the equation of 'Western enlightenment', I would hope that gzus could first tell us straightforwardly that it is CHRISTIANITY they lack, instead of unnecessary religion bashing, atheism witch-hunting, and painful contradiction in his/her marriage of 'christianity' and 'platonism'. The Inquisition is long over, and heretics run the earth over. If gzus embraces reason, like platonism advocates, gzus should in turn realize that this condition is not unique to the east, but in the 'west' as well. France, the mother of such fine minds as Descartes, Foucault, and Derrida has recently experienced a dramatic rejection of Catholic and Christian beliefs and a turning to Islam. This heated matter proved to be one of the most important issues in her past election between right and left parties. The simple fact is that rationalistic philosphy has lost its stranglehold on 'western thought' to science, and idealistic notions such as enlightenment which had their hey-day in western universities during (quite obviously) the ENLIGHTENMENT PERIOD of thought, have long since lost their strongholds in 'western universities' with the advent of postmodern philosophy and the natural progression of 'western' thought towards romanticism and skepticism and the rejection of rationality. If 'enlightenment' is 'western', I would like to ask gzus, who speaks with such conviction for Plato, whether the latter would consider all 'westerners' per se as the right material for enlightenment. I beg to allow myself the conceit of believing that we both refer to 'western' as 'European' and 'American'. And please don't say the jesuits of the catholic church have led them to the path of enlightent. After all those rationalist clergy members ended up being persecuted by the very same westerners who they worked so hard for didn't they gzus? You have created a conventional deformed notion of Platonist thought by merging his philosophy with Christian values. Plato came before Christ the last time I checked, meaning pagan greece and civic gods were his surroundings. Above all, you're unbounded faith in 'western enlightenment', albeit a twisted notion of it, is simply your own religious faith, as your internet alias clearly alludes to. The phenomenon of God has yet to be proven to exist, just as 'Western Enlightenment' and I hope you understand that you can not have both Plato and God together in harmony without having both Heaven and Hell in the same manner. Rationalism is 'Western Enlightenment' and you drew on the wrong figures for faith and romanticism. If Plato is rational and preaches rationality, how would he approve of Christianity as Enlightenment, a concept that makes every believer (leper, whore, murderer) an equal, and capable of salvation when he believes exactly the opposite? Make sure you "figure out things on your own" next time before you allow god to build you argument for you gzus. You're absolutely right when you say Christianity has muddled the minds of billions of people through the ages, and has helped them "figure out" ways of justifying their crimes with the cry that it is "in the name of GOD!". For we still live on the land of the lost, don't we gzus? And simple human reason by nature encourages skepticism towards paraphernalia and inept reasoning such as your own. Do what's best and keep your petrify your impulsive tongue before you use a wise sage like Plato to further your own logocentric ends. And don't hold your own god responsible, if you are 'philosophically enlightened' by God's accord, why do you not follow the example of Jesus, who would have wanted you to help your fellow man rather than mope around typing hollow rants of abuse in a forum?
Socrates
Thursday, May 16, 2002 at 22:06:58 (PDT)

China Man Rising,

Culture and a people are two separate entities. Culture is like education or religion, it contains information, and how people should approach life. Each indvidual can interpret their culture in a different way from another person of the same culture. Many Chinese in Modern Day China have forgotten their culture and many want to learn the ways of the West. Unfortunately, the Chinese have been absorbing the bad things of the West.

gzus in NYC,

I do agree with you that the China's culture is stagnant. I ALSO agree with you that China doesn't understand the value system of the West.

HOWEVER, China doesn't need to Westernize. Whoever said China needs to catch up with the West? This is superficial and such standard are conceived by Westerners.

One question that I've always asked myself: Do Asians really need to follow the ways of the West?

Look at Japan: Yes, the Japanese tried to copy everything of the West. Like you said, it failed to do so completely. Why? The Japanese are not Westerners, they come from an Asian Tradition. They didn't fully understand the West nor do Westerners fully understand the East. Wouldn't you agree that this is the case?

Christianity is not the solution to the ills that effect Asians. For Asians to believe in Christianity is the same for the Japanese trying to imitate the West. Do you understand this analogy?

Japan's failure to completely understand the West should also teach Asian Americans a lesson about assimilating into the mainstream American culture. Further, the plight of Black Americans and their early attempts and failures to "impress" the Whites for acceptance into the dominant society might also show Americans of non Western traditions that trying to "copy" White people is a big mistake.....after all.

Southern Chinese
Thursday, May 16, 2002 at 17:56:49 (PDT)

Lets just ignore the philosophical and religious histories of China and the US and look at current times:

1. The US is plagued by religious conservatives, Christian ignorance and residual xenophobia. The nation is rich and continues to lead the world in technological development despite this. I'm not claiming this will continue for a long time, but that is the way it is right now.

2. China is plagued by greed and the desire to make money immediately. The Chinese government views religion as a distraction from the task at hand, which is economic development. Therefore, in order to develop China economically, the Chinese government wants a country full of politically apathetic workers that only care about making money. Tibetan Buddhism/culture and Hong Kong's freedom/autonomy are dispensable in this goal. Possession of Taiwan is desired mainly for its economic success and potential.

I have lived in Hong Kong, Shanghai and the US (I'm a caucasian born/raised in the US). The above is the way I see it, and I would like to be critiqued. Thanks.
gwailo in NY
Thursday, May 16, 2002 at 16:03:03 (PDT)

gzus in NYC,

I've noticed you said or implied that all Western things are good while all non-Western things are garbage.

Please do more to explain to us your Neo-Nazi rhetoric.
Who are you? Hitler Jr?
Thursday, May 16, 2002 at 14:25:53 (PDT)

gzus in NYC,

Isn't communism one of the great western enlightenment China adopted.
AC Dropout
Thursday, May 16, 2002 at 14:09:56 (PDT)

gzus in NYC,

You are definitely a ghetto crack addict.
AC Dropout
Thursday, May 16, 2002 at 13:14:32 (PDT)

gzus in NYC,

You're smoking crack in the city aren't you.
AC Dropout

I'm tellin' ya, without some kind of operating/value system you have massive inefficiencies in a population. If everyone tried to write their own operating system for their computer, forget it.

China has none; as an atheist nation they have a choice between nihilism and objectivsm, neither of which are suitable for the masses, but even worse, most just drift. This is the case whether they realize it or not.

I tell ya AC, Mr. IonlygotintoBxScience.edu, I know what I'm talkin' about. It's like, I'm offering e=mc2 while your only an average, decent physicist.

gzus in NYC
Thursday, May 16, 2002 at 12:06:40 (PDT)

>>What good is philosophy when you live >>in America? People are ignorant all over, and economic success does not mean philosophical sophisication.

You must be a student of the wrong philosophies.
I don't mean crap like Kant, Confucius, Taoism, nihilism and all the useless stuff. A functional value system is necessary for everyone, same way a computer needs an operating sytem to run well, preferably a robust and bug-free one.
gzus in NYC
Thursday, May 16, 2002 at 12:00:54 (PDT)

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