Can China Avoid the Soviet Union's Fate? | Asian American Issues

CAN CHINA AVOID THE SOVIET UNION'S FATE?

he People's Republic of China likes to compare itself with the United States. Both governments were forged to throw off the imperial yoke. Both are amalgams of many races and nationalities. Both are great continental powers capable of harnessing immense resources to promote national agendas around the world.
     Beijing's bosses cite these parallels to justify China's ambition of returning Taiwan to the fold -- forcibly if necessary -- and violently suppressing movements for Tibetan independence, Moslem separatism and religious tolerance. The party line: "In a few decades we will be as prosperous, unified and democratic as you Americans."
     Unfortunately, some observers see closer parallels to the former Soviet Union.
     Founded in 1910 to free Russian peasants from oppressive landowners and a weak imperial government, the Soviet government quickly and ruthlessly expanded into a superpower that rivaled the United States in military might and reach. On top of nearly 300 million citizens of several dozen captive nationalities, the Soviet Union became the puppetmasters of virtually every Eastern European government. By 1989 it was buckling under the burden of superpower competition. In 1991 the communists lost power to the reformist Yeltsin. The Soviet Union broke apart into Russia and a dozen independent republics. Today Russia is a nation of 150 million struggling to build a capitalist economy from the rubble of the communist meltdown.
     Among the Soviets' earliest converts were Mao Tsetung, Zhou Enlai and other young Chinese intellectuals who saw in communism salvation for the Chinese people from western imperialism and internal corruption. Mao's long struggle against Chiang Kaishek and the Kuomingtang would have ended disasterously without the support of dozens of ethnic minorities in northwestern China who believed his promise of ultimate political autonomy. Their help proved more valuable to Mao than the billions in American aid and direct military assistance to Chiang. By 1949 the Kuomingtang had fled to Taiwan and the PRC ruled the mainland.
     Beijing's bosses have been as ruthless as the Soviets in consolidating territory and suppressing separatist movements. But they have been far more successful in creating a functioning economy. They began capitalist reforms in 1979. By 2001 China's economy had become free enough to enter the World Trade Organization. For the past two decades it has grown at an average annual rate of 9%. Few of China's 1.25 billion go hungry and about 125 million enjoy living standards comparable to Malaysia and the Philippines. By some measure China has just surpassed Japan in GDP and will surpass the U.S. by 2025.
     But China's future as a united nation is far from assured.
     Even assuming peaceful reunification with Taiwan and victory over Tibetan separatists, Beijing's leaders face some big hurdles. They must integrate a billion subsistence-level farmers and workers into the consumer economy of the east coast or face ethnic discontent on a scale that would dwarf America's racial strife of the 1960s. Yet burdening the developed regions could breed separatist sentiment in Guangdong, Fujien, Manchuria and other regions. Over 100 languages and dialects are spoken in China. Long-suppressed religious minorities are becoming better organized thanks to the internet and other communications technology.
     Are China's prospects for staying united more like those of the U.S. or of the former Soviet Union?

(Updated )

gzus in NYC,

You make some good points.

There is a nugget of something in your postings, but I can’t exactly pinpoint it.

Is it that the Judeo-Christian system singularly raises the individual to the level of a god - a god that has its own absolute - universal authority to seek its own destiny and happiness?

Has anyone read - The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (Julian Jaynes). It seems to indicate that as the human society gets increasingly complex that the individual must have increasingly self-centered, self-consciousness and individualistic beliefs, that conversely the “put-the-group-ahead-of-self” mentality of Confuciusism and Japan is not sufficient to support the OS for increasingly complex society – i.e. the more complex a system, the more self-independent the individual units must be – i.e. decentralized management?. And further that the Judeo-Christian system best espouses this?

Gift of the Jews - http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft9811/reviews/prager.html - is another relevant view.

NYhomeboy
Wednesday, May 22, 2002 at 14:43:32 (PDT)

Independent AM

> non-Christian and non-Jew, they are almost identical in their core beliefs

I hope someone can collaborate this…but my Jewish friends, one of whom is orthodox, told me that Jews believe in re-incarnation and of course we know that re-incarnation is anathema in Christinaity. There are many other significant misconceptions about the Jewish faith.

xboy
Wednesday, May 22, 2002 at 13:51:17 (PDT)

The Asian Rock has decided to join the fun, and practice his one-sentence takedown on this little twit who calls himself gzus.

Here's what the Asian Rock hears from the New York Jewish boy about Asian religions:

"wise man says this, you do as told without an in depth explanation why it should be so... a set of moral values based on what this old geezer said eons ago. Basically whatever he says you gotta take his word for it that he's right."

The Asian Rock replies: "You mean, sort of like the Ten Commandments and the Old Testament?"

WHUMP! Little gzus goes to the mat, dazed and whimpering.

Poor guy, he's been watching too many Kung Fu re-runs starring a fake Asian and mistakenly thinking the show represents genuine Asian philosophies.

The Asian Rock
Wednesday, May 22, 2002 at 12:55:42 (PDT)

AC,
It would take USA the better part of the year to revamp our industries to conduct a prolong war without China supplying us.

Lemme add that the US only has to help the Taiwanese defend the island, which is easy and probably can be done without a single casualty, since the US's support would be 100% naval and air support. The few PRC troops in transports that make it across the straights will find themselves outnumbered 500-1 and throw their hands up right away if they're smart.

As for the nuclear option, don't huff and puff and bring it up, we know that even if the US spared the Chinese ICBMs China could only use them if they wanted to decrease their population by half and GDP by 80%.
gzus in NYC
Wednesday, May 22, 2002 at 12:35:29 (PDT)

I hope the guys in Beijing don't think like u, AC.

Migs are not better than F-16s, and I only mentioned F-16s as an example of how difficult it is to reverse engineer something.

500 conventional missiles will do economic damage. It will not make Taiwan submit and it would not take back Taiwan. It WILL, however, make China look like a fool, as every racist who fears China's rise will be laughing at how one Chinese gov't is damaging another Chinese gov't.

Bottom line with Taiwan is, Beijing cannot retake it militarily. In a battle with the Taiwanese/Americans in complete control of the air and water, there is simply no way to launch a successful amphibious landing on Taiwan.

Ya cant get guys across if jets are hitting transports with precision guided missiles and US/Taiwanese warships and subs are firing at them.
gzus in NYC
Wednesday, May 22, 2002 at 11:54:34 (PDT)

from the standpoint of a non-Christian and non-Jew, they are almost identical in their core beliefs.

The beliefs are 100% different, the approach to life 100% different. The differences may not be apparent to most non-Jews & christians in the US cause most people here are mildly religious at best, and most Jews here are not Orthodox or ultra-orthodox, and actually many are secular, so it's near impossible for an outsider to tell the difference unless u know both religions in depth.
gzus in NYC
Wednesday, May 22, 2002 at 11:48:08 (PDT)

Gzus says:

"I'm not trying to knock China/Chinese philosophers on purpose, I'm just tellin' ya like it is."

No. You are an arrogant assh*le who speaks from ignorance. If Asian philosophies are the gibberish that you claim them to be, then explain books like "The Tao of Physics" or "Dance of the Wu Li Masters." The authors of these books certainly know a lot more than you do.

Gzus says:

"What they are doing now is so far just a poor imitation of the West, no better than their attempted imitation of the low tech export model F-16s."

Again, you speak from ignorance and arrogance. Do you even know what the Chinese are doing and have done with their space program? Do some research, assh*le. It may open your eyes - although for some reason I doubt that very much.

Bugger off, Gzus
Wednesday, May 22, 2002 at 10:54:14 (PDT)

Southern Chinese has an interesting inferiority complex. Perhaps ugliness runs in his family, so he thinks Chinese in general are not that great looking.

I'm just the opposite. My extended family is full of good-looking Asians. My nieces in particular - each one is more beautiful than her older sibling. When I look around, I see a lot of beauty in the Chinese people.

Here in the US, I belong to a Chinese community where the younger generation (people in their twenties) is just stunning. And when I travel out of California on business, I often see poor Whites who are either unattractive, or obese, or both.

SoCal Asiam
Wednesday, May 22, 2002 at 10:47:00 (PDT)

Gzus, you are a moron. You have no idea what you're talking about but it doesn't stop you from making sweeping statements.

You say Eastern philosophies and religions are garbage, while Judaism is like an operating system that is constantly updated. Very interesting. If Judaism is by this contrast superior, then please explain why its diety, by various names (Allah, Yahweh, etc.), has been so closely associated with genocide, the crusades, the inquisitions, the witch hunts, and (in this day and age) rapes of children and international terrorism?

The "extremist excuse" won't help you here, because extremists exist in all religions, but in Eastern religions they simply do not become mass murderers. If one were to judge religions on the basis of what they DO instead of what they SAY, then frankly, your superior and constantly updated Judaism stinks.

You say that non-Jews never look at the Talmud. Well, I have. Extensively. It portrays the ancient Jews in the same way the Old Testament does, as a bloodthirsty and warlike people who are ignorant, savage, xenophobic and superstitious. Sorry man, that's just the way it is. Any religion that has anything to do with this crap can't help but be crap.

You wanna talk about garbage? Then let's compare the Talmud with Eastern religious books. In the Talmud you will find references to rape, pedophilia, incest, bestiality, torture, and excrement, among other gruesome topics. You will not find the same thing in Buddhism, Taoism or Confucianism. Ah, now it starts to make more sense why Allah / Yahweh seems to be the number one diety in all of human history to be closely linked to massive human pain, death, and misery.

You say:

"Confucianism is a set of moral values based on what this old geezer said eons ago. Basically whatever he says you gotta take his word for it that he's right. Same with Taoism & Buddhism."

Sorry. Nice try. Dogmatic practice exists in every religion. Your constantly updated Judaism is no exception.

Phil
Wednesday, May 22, 2002 at 09:29:22 (PDT)

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