Can China Avoid the Soviet Union's Fate?
(Updated )

he People's Republic of China likes to compare itself with the United States. Both governments were forged to throw off the imperial yoke. Both are amalgams of many races and nationalities. Both are great continental powers capable of harnessing immense resources to promote national agendas around the world.
     Beijing's bosses cite these parallels to justify China's ambition of returning Taiwan to the fold -- forcibly if necessary -- and violently suppressing movements for Tibetan independence, Moslem separatism and religious tolerance. The party line: "In a few decades we will be as prosperous, unified and democratic as you Americans."
     Unfortunately, some observers see closer parallels to the former Soviet Union.
     Founded in 1910 to free Russian peasants from oppressive landowners and a weak imperial government, the Soviet government quickly and ruthlessly expanded into a superpower that rivaled the United States in military might and reach. On top of nearly 300 million citizens of several dozen captive nationalities, the Soviet Union became the puppetmasters of virtually every Eastern European government. By 1989 it was buckling under the burden of superpower competition. In 1991 the communists lost power to the reformist Yeltsin. The Soviet Union broke apart into Russia and a dozen independent republics. Today Russia is a nation of 150 million struggling to build a capitalist economy from the rubble of the communist meltdown.
     Among the Soviets' earliest converts were Mao Tsetung, Zhou Enlai and other young Chinese intellectuals who saw in communism salvation for the Chinese people from western imperialism and internal corruption. Mao's long struggle against Chiang Kaishek and the Kuomingtang would have ended disasterously without the support of dozens of ethnic minorities in northwestern China who believed his promise of ultimate political autonomy. Their help proved more valuable to Mao than the billions in American aid and direct military assistance to Chiang. By 1949 the Kuomingtang had fled to Taiwan and the PRC ruled the mainland.
     Beijing's bosses have been as ruthless as the Soviets in consolidating territory and suppressing separatist movements. But they have been far more successful in creating a functioning economy. They began capitalist reforms in 1979. By 2001 China's economy had become free enough to enter the World Trade Organization. For the past two decades it has grown at an average annual rate of 9%. Few of China's 1.25 billion go hungry and about 125 million enjoy living standards comparable to Malaysia and the Philippines. By some measure China has just surpassed Japan in GDP and will surpass the U.S. by 2025.
     But China's future as a united nation is far from assured.
     Even assuming peaceful reunification with Taiwan and victory over Tibetan separatists, Beijing's leaders face some big hurdles. They must integrate a billion subsistence-level farmers and workers into the consumer economy of the east coast or face ethnic discontent on a scale that would dwarf America's racial strife of the 1960s. Yet burdening the developed regions could breed separatist sentiment in Guangdong, Fujien, Manchuria and other regions. Over 100 languages and dialects are spoken in China. Long-suppressed religious minorities are becoming better organized thanks to the internet and other communications technology.
     Are China's prospects for staying united more like those of the U.S. or of the former Soviet Union? Just to bring back an old topic...

I got myself one of Sony's entry level digital cameras this Christmas (model DSC-P31), and it says MADE IN JAPAN on the back. Keep in mind, this is one of their CHEAPEST models. Also, my old JVC GR-DVM55U digital video camera, also a basic, entry level model, is MADE IN JAPAN. The only made in China digital cameras I see are the generic no name brands.
TSJ
Eric@KristinKreuk.net    Sunday, December 29, 2002 at 11:21:52 (PST)    [165.247.206.50]
NicholiServia PHD EMP,

I feel kinda bad for you that you are living in such poor housing.

Tell you what, why don't you call my office in Shanghai, (86-21) 6543-5805, and they will set you up with corporate housing.

The pass code for you will be

"I'm looking for Mr. Li. Falun Gong is good."

I've just contacted them myself, so the receptionist might not know the code yet. But just keep asking for Mr. Li and stating Falun Gong is good. You'll be transfered up the corporate ladder until someone closer to my partner gets the message and they will send you a limo to take you to our corporate housing.

We have satelite TV, sit down toilets, stuff expats are use to. I'm not sure if every room has wall-to-wall carpeting. But I do know there should be some nice imported rugs in there, since I saw it on last years invoice for expenses.

The view is not that great since it is next to another large real estate development. But at night it is better because you don't see the construction vehicles.
AC Dropout
   Sunday, December 29, 2002 at 07:34:05 (PST)    [24.136.115.189]
AC:

You really like to take things out of context (either accidentally or purposely, and I'm leaning toward the latter) just to sway things to make yourself sound like a winner. You know, I know where you are coming from. After spending some time on the debate team, I have come across a myriad of techniques, and yours is one of them. You try to fluster and confuse the opposition by using their own words against them, making them second guess themselves. They think, "Did I really say that?" Then, when they are in a confused state, you hit them harder until they cannot defend themselves any longer. You also throw in some ad hominems while you are at it, most with little merit (calling me a high school drop out) just to attempt to piss people off. You also like to make it sound like you've won ("I've got your number!" and "I'm calling you out!"), when you haven't proven squat.

However, this is not a real live debate. We can scroll back to look at every written statement, and we also have time to think about what we write. Also, since unlike most forums, Goldsea requires no registration or e-mail, everyone can remain as anonymous as the Zodiac Killer.

You are the type of person who would go against something someone said just to make an argument. If I told you my hair is black, you would rant on about how bad black hair is. If I said I am blonde, you would bash that too. If I told you I like to work out, you would say what a meathead I am, with all brawn and no brain. If I never picked up any weights, you would say that I am a bony little wimp.

You mention something about people being "retarded," and go on about how you like to win arguments over the internet. Well, with that being said, I have this to say to you... as the old saying goes, "Arguing over the internet is like the Special Olympics... If you win, you're still retarded."

Anyways, what's wrong with going on tour groups? For my money, there is no better way to see all the things you want to see. They show you all the famous landmarks without the hassle of buying tickets and getting in line; they narrate everything, so you get a history lesson without having to read too much; they book the finest hotels and restaurants; and you are treated with respect and utmost care since the tour company has good relations with all parties involved. It doesn't mean that my Chinese is poor. For your information, it was a Chinese tour company called Ritz www.ritztours.com, booked in Chinatown. The entire group was comprised of Chinese, so all of us were at least semi-literate in Mandarin. I take group tours of the US too. What can you deduce from that? That my English is too poor to make it around on my own?

The other best way to travel is to spend a few weeks or months in a particular city, and act as if you live there. I have not had the time or money to do this yet, but I certainly plan to in the future in NYC first, then Seattle, and probably Shanghai and London.

Hong Kong subway compared to NYC? I thought we were talking about mainland China. HK's tranportation system was long implemented before China got a hold of it. Like Nicholi said, Shanghai's subway system is a joke compared to NYC's. Both are cities of comparable size, with similar blueprints, small (geographically) cities with dense populations (12 to 16 million). Shanghai's only goes back and forth on one line. The Bay Area's much maligned BART system, which serves an area of 6 million covers far more ground than that. Shoot, even Vancouver, a city of less than 2 million, has a better system, with their driverless, automated ALRT (Awesome Lobster Rapid System, by far the coolest name for any transit system). If you want to see a huge city with great public transportation, look at Tokyo.

Judging by your condescending tone, it seems like you have doubt about my said career. Well, you can look up my name, Eric Wong, under www.dre.ca.gov, under the company, New Home Professionals. Yeah, yeah, this is a common name, and you will probably say that it's some random guy I picked out. Hey, we don't even know what you do, making yourself sound like some bigshot international investor or something. You make fun of Nicholi's mode of transportation. So, what kind of car do you own in China? Surely, you own your own house in those nice tracts near the airport, with marble floors, don't you?
TSJ
Eric@KristinKreuk.net    Saturday, December 28, 2002 at 16:25:21 (PST)    [209.86.245.172]
Nicholi,
I will ask you a simple question. If living in China is so bad, why don't you just return to America? I think most of our impression of you is a China hater living in China only to laugh at it's under-developements. Don't you have at least one thing good to say about China? If you don't then why not leave? Your situation as a China hater living in China is really illogical. Wouldn't a normal person left already?
CnB
   Saturday, December 28, 2002 at 04:41:01 (PST)    [67.30.171.124]
another voice,

OMG you were right. He went all the way to the other side of the campus to post from another internet bar.

NicholiServia PHD EMP,

The noodle shop question would be intuitive if you mingled with the student body at Fudan. It is obvious from your post you are outside the faculty and student body at that university. Hope you did not waste too much gas on your 50 cc puttputt looking for the noodle shop. I shouldn't tell you it's name nor their popular dish (which would surely give it away), it is one of my favorite eateries when I go to Shanghai.

Don't want to run into an expat putting down China, when I'm trying to enjoy myself. Expats forget that there are Asians fluent in English when abroad, so they say the dumbest things sometimes in public.

But I am happy to see none of your civil liberties are being crushed as you run from internet bar to internet bar putting down China.
AC Dropout
   Friday, December 27, 2002 at 20:14:38 (PST)    [208.59.247.9]
Nicholi Servia PHD EMP,
Are you paranoid? So are you Jing Cha, if not you would not respond to Kinko man. He is the one refering to you about the insult you made a long time ago....

I don't know how else to explain this but as for this Jing Cha, I have no idea who you are talking about. I have only been to a few forum threads and only used this name. I don't know who you are talking about but, considering how many times I have been called out as him, he musta been somethin' else.

I find it quite unbelievable that 3 people use a computer (the same system) and the ip never changes. I find that quite unbelievable. But, unlike the rest of these wankers I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt because in the end, it doesn't really matter.

----Your a good man. How you like China so far? Take care and Happy New Year.

Why thank you. Everything is progressing relatively well. On January 20th, I have to fly to Japan via JAL. Besides some major upsets on this stay in China, everything is quite ok.
Nicholi Servia PHD EMP
nicholiservia@hotmail.com    Friday, December 27, 2002 at 19:42:34 (PST)    [211.156.8.46]
NicholiServia PHD EMP,

Awww poor nick living in the slums of China. Your place doesn't sound like my place when I reside in Shanghai. I bet your home in The Projects, USA is also no comparison to mine either.

Okay nick here's a question. Do you eat ranma instant noodles every night?
On the holidays do you splurge and put an egg in it? Was that 200,000 USD or RMB again?

Desert Husbandary...We farm in Nevada and Arizon. China will figure out with irrigation project to do the same in their western parts.

Railroad expansion...If you keep up with current events, you will already know that China has request WTO exemption for this railroad project. Hence, it is not open to foreigners to invest in it. It is mostly a domestic works project. Even the Mag Lev thing. Foriegn Knowledge Capital, Domestic Production.

"one standard and doesn't change its track width state to state"

Not a true statement. NYC mass transit has over 5 types of tracks in the subway, it is actually a government merger old private companies in our pass. Every rail company in the USA uses their own guages of tracks. So you can't be putting a Amtrak car on the Metro North or Pacific Northwest tracks.

China builds more or less safely like the USA. Look at the Great Wall. It's still standing. But your in the some poor student housing. What do you expect the Ramada Inn?

My water heater unit in China is totally automatic besides the click-click sound of the electric spark plug I'm very happy with the unit. The water pump is also automatic, I believe my units are on all the time last I check.

Beijing is crumbling because the buildings have been there for centuries, literally. Shanghai is crumbling because they are knocking down the older building faster than you can say, Nick is a lying loser, 3x fast.

Okay Mr. I got a PHD in electomagnetic physics but can't figure out a fuse issue. Go to the nearest five gold store and get a fuse with a higher rating. I hope you can derive of the relationship of Amps, Volts, and Watts before your next blow out. Or pull a Macguyver and solve your problem with a bubblegum wrapper and a Chinese made Swiss Army knife.

"Thats why I'm not giving up any more details. This way I do not have to get any stupid side comments."

- Truth hurts, but is it not destructive...some new age self help advise.
AC Dropout, Science guy
   Friday, December 27, 2002 at 18:55:19 (PST)    [208.59.247.9]
another voice,

Given Nick's description of his apt. He sounds more like a poor foriegn student or poor English teacher.

My guess would be a freelancing Enlish teacher for a private English school that rents classroom on the Fudan Campus on weekends.
AC Dropout
   Friday, December 27, 2002 at 18:10:03 (PST)    [208.59.247.9]
"Somebody tell this poor excuse for a computer nerd to please write about CHINA which is the subject at hand."

haha Who has built a whole fake life on the Internet on separate, different boards?, not to mention doing secondary research just so you can post it here? Not me. I thought you weren't gonna respond to me?
You're so sad, dude...You have no real sense of your true self is like.
another voice
loser    Friday, December 27, 2002 at 16:09:18 (PST)    [68.9.169.159]
Nicholi Servia PHD EMP,
I have to also add that you are a very smart man, as well. Take care and Happy New Year.
Nokia
   Friday, December 27, 2002 at 12:30:23 (PST)    [24.239.152.113]

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