Can China Avoid the Soviet Union's Fate?
(Updated )

he People's Republic of China likes to compare itself with the United States. Both governments were forged to throw off the imperial yoke. Both are amalgams of many races and nationalities. Both are great continental powers capable of harnessing immense resources to promote national agendas around the world.
     Beijing's bosses cite these parallels to justify China's ambition of returning Taiwan to the fold -- forcibly if necessary -- and violently suppressing movements for Tibetan independence, Moslem separatism and religious tolerance. The party line: "In a few decades we will be as prosperous, unified and democratic as you Americans."
     Unfortunately, some observers see closer parallels to the former Soviet Union.
     Founded in 1910 to free Russian peasants from oppressive landowners and a weak imperial government, the Soviet government quickly and ruthlessly expanded into a superpower that rivaled the United States in military might and reach. On top of nearly 300 million citizens of several dozen captive nationalities, the Soviet Union became the puppetmasters of virtually every Eastern European government. By 1989 it was buckling under the burden of superpower competition. In 1991 the communists lost power to the reformist Yeltsin. The Soviet Union broke apart into Russia and a dozen independent republics. Today Russia is a nation of 150 million struggling to build a capitalist economy from the rubble of the communist meltdown.
     Among the Soviets' earliest converts were Mao Tsetung, Zhou Enlai and other young Chinese intellectuals who saw in communism salvation for the Chinese people from western imperialism and internal corruption. Mao's long struggle against Chiang Kaishek and the Kuomingtang would have ended disasterously without the support of dozens of ethnic minorities in northwestern China who believed his promise of ultimate political autonomy. Their help proved more valuable to Mao than the billions in American aid and direct military assistance to Chiang. By 1949 the Kuomingtang had fled to Taiwan and the PRC ruled the mainland.
     Beijing's bosses have been as ruthless as the Soviets in consolidating territory and suppressing separatist movements. But they have been far more successful in creating a functioning economy. They began capitalist reforms in 1979. By 2001 China's economy had become free enough to enter the World Trade Organization. For the past two decades it has grown at an average annual rate of 9%. Few of China's 1.25 billion go hungry and about 125 million enjoy living standards comparable to Malaysia and the Philippines. By some measure China has just surpassed Japan in GDP and will surpass the U.S. by 2025.
     But China's future as a united nation is far from assured.
     Even assuming peaceful reunification with Taiwan and victory over Tibetan separatists, Beijing's leaders face some big hurdles. They must integrate a billion subsistence-level farmers and workers into the consumer economy of the east coast or face ethnic discontent on a scale that would dwarf America's racial strife of the 1960s. Yet burdening the developed regions could breed separatist sentiment in Guangdong, Fujien, Manchuria and other regions. Over 100 languages and dialects are spoken in China. Long-suppressed religious minorities are becoming better organized thanks to the internet and other communications technology.
     Are China's prospects for staying united more like those of the U.S. or of the former Soviet Union? The bottom line with the maglev: it's high-tech, it's sexy; China has it, America does not. Hey, not too bad for a country that many Western bigots and whitewashed bananas dismiss as a backward third-world nation.
In case you missed it: yes, I just called you a whitewashed banana.

-------Phil Chen

Insulting people by attacking their personal circumstances is what I have come to grips with on tis forum but you, you seem to take things a little to personally. China is just trying to be better than America without understanding what makes America what it is. They will never succeed in being better than the USA. No other country in the world is regarded the way the USA is so for you to simply call westerners (read: Americans) bigots you are simply showing your own ignorance.

Eric is a good person to have on this forum and I welcome his every comment. Not because he sometimes favors what I say, but, because he speaks his mind and does so in a reasonable manner until he is attacked by you all.

I don't have to go onto any websites to learn about China. I can be here and now and use information to explain events that occour. I dont trust any news reports I see here except for the hard facts. Frankly CNN, doesn't move me at all with its propaganda. If I need to see the news, I'll travel thank you.
Nicholi Servia PHD EMP
   Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 08:58:08 (PST)    [211.156.8.223]
"The magnetic levitation train was built by GERMANY, not China."

So what? Did AC claim the meglev train was a Chinese invention?

Eric wrote that because AC dropoutis trying to tell us all how big&bad prc is when they can't even manage to Pioneer their own technology. AC dropout NEVER mentioned that this train was built and designed mostly by German work because it demeens his position.
To prove my point, AC Dropout, why not tell us all the names of the NON-Chinese who designed Pudong International Airport, Jin Mao, Pearl Tower and helped lay plans for Century Park. Why not tell us the names of thos designers as well?
Why not tell us the amount of American, French and German engineer that are currently here and have even helped with the 3 Gorges Dam. Cmon' tell us...
Cmon AC we can handle it!
nicholiservia@hotmail.com    Saturday, January 04, 2003 at 17:41:58 (PST)    [211.156.9.148]
Nicholi
"If China wants to pioneer anything, first, they better get a BRAND NAME and then they had better stop COPYING other existing models. "

Actually, if you think about Japanese technology, copying can get you pretty far. The Japanese didn't invent the car, yet they make great cars through copying. Of course they build more to someone else's invention but they're still copying the basic form of technology.

Also, I don't think anyone was stating that China is a pioneer in technology. The original post was mainly about how China's transportation is improving.
No one here is saying that China is superior to all other countries in the world. China defenders are basically pointing out how China is improving. Everytime someone points out an improvement, you rebuke by saying something like China's not the best because of prostitution etc etc etc. Boy it really kills you that China's improving isn't it? Or do you just not know the difference between improvement and superiority? If you hate China so much why don't you just look for a job in another place.
Christine
   Saturday, January 04, 2003 at 10:39:33 (PST)    [141.151.8.17]
It's reported that there might be plans to build additional Maglev lines between HK and Guangzhou in southern China; Shanghai and Nanjing and/or Hongzhou and Shanghai (in eastern China.) Shanghai people have expressed their appreciation of the new Pudong line. They like the new service very much. See for yourself and check out the news and pictures.

AC and gang, I won't be too concerned about arsehole like the Nic S. guy. The strong progress and improvements that are happening in China will put the arsedole to shame. The only focus for Chinese should be the reform movement and progress; subsequently people will reap success and prosperity.

It's also reported by many scholars and analysts that China's GDP will move up quickly displacing first France, then Britain (by 2005?), then Germany and japan (2015-2020). (Please note they didn't even use the Purchasing Power Parity benchmarks yet.) China is on track to success. Keep up the good work!
builderx
   Saturday, January 04, 2003 at 07:37:09 (PST)    [24.188.239.207]
To Nicholi and other Anti-Chinese

I've always been confused at the amount of China-bashing on these forums.

It seems like certain people feel threatened by the fact that China is progressing. Any news of Chinese progress from its economic growth to space race cause these individuals to relentlessly bash them as either not credible or insignificant achievements.

Perhaps they prefer the China of the Mao years when

If you really dislike Chinese people or China that much, then why are you even reading these articles?
XiaoLi
   Saturday, January 04, 2003 at 00:32:20 (PST)    [136.152.197.177]
Western bigots and sellout bananas can laugh till they pee if they like;but hey,that was exactly what the ignorant chinese did in the past. They thought they were the best in the world and all that Middle Kingdom crap they blindly believed in.This is exactly the same attitude that Nick and his cronies have but of course, time will show that things always change. Poorer nations in Asia will rise,china will become another Asian powerhouse and the Chinese will enjoy great prosperity. Even if you clowns don't like the idea of a rising China, you can't avoid it.the eventual will happen, and China is the next big thing coming up in the very near future.

I'm happy that China has got its first magnetic train. At least,we are ambitious. Unlike these fat western bigots sitting comfortably on their smelly couch munching their chips away thinking they'd rule the world forever, we dare to dream. Even if we might fail,I'm still proud that China has the strong desire to excel.

I'm not saying China is going to be the greatest nation in the world, I'm not saying that China will overtake the US and the West.i only believe that China will eventually join the ranks of the other advanced nations in the world.China still has a long journey to go, but China will get there alrite!
Shanghainese
   Saturday, January 04, 2003 at 00:03:51 (PST)    [210.187.156.57]
Nicholi, PHD, EMP, ME (Moron Extraordinaire), writes:

"Your silly comments mean nothing to me so just cut the bull. By the way, I recognize your IP, your faking isn't worth the white space you type on."

Nice try to dodge the question about the nature of US assistance to China. Your lack of answer counts as admission of ignorance.

Oh no! You recognize my IP! What will I do now?

Why, continue to ridicule you of course.

Eric,

You seem ally yourself with this Nicholi idiot. If so, I have nothing but contempt for you.

We're not missing the point. We recognize China is still growing, just like Japan was 40 years ago, or Taiwan 30 years ago. China will have its share of powerful companies decades from now. If you cannot see that possibility, then *you* are missing the point.

It's easy to see why you refuse to respond to queries about US assistance to China. You know you are wrong but you are not man enough to admit it. This "difference in semantics" face-saving BS is weak, dude.
Global Citizen
   Friday, January 03, 2003 at 21:35:16 (PST)    [67.113.199.204]
FOREIGNERS ONLY."

*SPIT-TAKE* Son, you have some funny notions about how things are in China. The Chinese in general and Shanghaiese in particular are becoming more affluent every year. If you still think there aren't many native Chinese in the financial district and the airport, then there is nothing I can say to dispell your idiotic delusions.
China has it, America does not. Hey, not too bad for a country that many Western bigots and whitewashed bananas dismiss as a backward third-world nation.

---Well maybe then since you are an expert on Shanghai and China, you can tell me how many Chinese live in Pudong...God help you if you give me the wrong number.
A Sexy maglev train? Do you have a fetish for electromagnetics? If so...
America was where the maglev train concepts started, its just that we never wanted one because it is pretty much useless from point - point - point, this is the device you go from LA - NYC in or travel non-stop long distances.
Lets stop talking about the train, as I don't appreciate it giving you a hiding spot to argue behind.

You're right the roads, building, and airport don't really exist. Neither do the dams at the 3 gorge project. Figment of our imagination. Those factories also imaginary. The Nike, Sony, panasonic products imaginary as well. You a mathematician...you like imaginary numbers too?
AC Dropout

----Im not looking for a Chinese phone number you fake. I want your number in America. Or do you have one? Maybe your just the propaganda department here in the PRC. The 3 gorges Damn is set to be the world's largest cesspool simply because its impacts on the natural environment will be so great. THe Chinese are not getting outside help anymore in certain aspects of the filtration system. Unless the aeriation system is done properly, ths is gonna be a huge mess. My guess is, they are being sneaky and using the 3 gorges damn for military purposes.
Nicholi Servia PHD EMP
   Friday, January 03, 2003 at 18:10:18 (PST)    [211.156.0.189]
Nicholi,

The truly "ludacris" thing here is that you claim to be highly educated, and that you have taught English in China, even though you can't spell, don't know how the apostrophe works, and your grammar sucks. I doubt you have any idea how moronic you come across in print.

You wrote:

"the Maglev train was kept secret from the Chinese until its maiden run"

Wrong. All my friends from mainland China knew about the maglev well before Western media got wind of it. You don't know what you're talking about.

You also wrote:

"By the way, I recognize your IP, your faking isn't worth the white space you type on."

I'm sure he's shaking in his boots that you recognize his IP. Why don't you take a look at my IP as well? Hey, I certainly recognize yours, your location is Beijing, you are going through Shanghai Global Network to get on the Internet. Big freakin' deal.

And let's not talk about faking. There is no renowned physicist / scientist / lecturer by the name of Nicholi Servia. Why don't you tell us what institution of higher learning you got your degree from? I will be glad to expose your fraud.

In the meantime, Global Citizen's challenge is a valid one: What example or examples can you cite of U.S. assistance to China on a similar level as U.S. aid to Israel? If you can't answer that question, then you deserve the title, Dr. Chickens***.
Phil Chen
   Friday, January 03, 2003 at 16:17:14 (PST)    [207.214.44.147]
"In case you missed it: yes, I just called you a whitewashed banana."

Wow, that's our new vocabulary lesson of the day. Anyone who doesn't think China is the greatest thing since Cheese Whiz is whitewashed. So, I guess most Taiwanese are whitewashed too then, right? How about all those people who fled HK before the imminent 97 takeover because they feared China's rule? I guess they are whitewashed too.

About the Maglev train... does anyone read? I wrote that I rode a Japanese prototype 16 YEARS AGO in BC, Canada. Shortly after, the project was scrapped because it was deemed unreliable and uneconomical.

They are building a high speed rail line through the Sacramento - Bay Area - Los Angeles - Las Vegas corridor, and they DO NOT plan on using Maglev technology because it's not worth the headache and cost.

HAHAHA... 1.2 Billion US dollars is a sign of Chinese wealth, huh? Well, that goes to show you guys are just hurling mud because the MAJORITY of it was paid for by GERMANY. Uhh... what's that, AC? I'm the one who doesn't read the news?!
You are right, AC. The trains were built by CHEAP Chinese labor... with GERMAN blueprints. Why the hell would Germany bring their own people in when the local labor force would work for pennies a day? All the new houses in California are built by Mexicans (some legal, most not), so should they claim that the housing developments are Mexican built? Does it matter who laid the hammer down? The fact of the matter is that the train is GERMAN ENGINEERED. Man, you are seriously grasping at straws now.

Wow, the first guy who rode it was Chinese. Does he represent the average patron? The fact that it only goes from the AIRPORT to the FINANCIAL DISTRICT proves that it was built for business men only, not the every man.

Shanghai has had more foreigners in and out of her than Annabelle Chong. What stamp has China itself made on the city? Everywhere you look around town, there is a foreign influence.

With that being said, I'll leave you with another quote, this one written by Bill Cosby for Fat Albert - "He who throws mud only loses ground."
TSJ
Eric@KristinKreuk.net    Friday, January 03, 2003 at 14:39:01 (PST)    [67.116.231.240]
Nicholi Servia PHD EMP,

"the Maglev train was kept secret from the Chinese until its maiden run"

Of course it was Secret Squirrel. The Chinese have developed the first operational cloaking technology. They used it to cloak the construction and the 1.2 billion USD.

It is actually a secret message to the USA. Annoucing the Meglev maiden trip was not to say "Hey, we have a Meglev and you don't."

It was really to say "Hey, we have cloaking technology and you don't."

I know it must be a strain for you to fake intelligence, reading your "How to sound smart for Dummies." Just give it up before you get a stroke.
AC Dropout
   Friday, January 03, 2003 at 10:14:34 (PST)    [24.136.115.189]
TSJ,

'Once again, "Arguing on the interest is like the Special Olympics. If you win, you're still retarded."'

True that. But that retard gets bragging rights for the next 4 years.
AC Dropout
   Friday, January 03, 2003 at 10:06:25 (PST)    [24.136.115.189]
TSJ,

This is not a bar, so different level of insight is definitely required to seem crediable.

Hey, but don't take is so personally.

Think about your statement. If the multinational pumped all their money into Mexico, do you believe they could acheive the same results as those achieved in China? I don't think so.

Now you think I'm a teenager. Geez, how does it feel to have a teenager crush your ego online.

I'm not 40 and I'm past my teens.
AC Dropout
   Friday, January 03, 2003 at 10:03:41 (PST)    [24.136.115.189]
Nicholi Servia PHD EMP,

Let me impart some knowledge to you. Outer Space is usually defined by the density of Hydrogen atoms.

What is your obsession with Brand Names. Are you a status hungry Chinese person or something?

Let's say for the sake of argument I owned a factory in the USA that manufactured licensed Playstation products. Let's say for the sake of argument you are retailer and I sold you in bulk these Playstation products at 50% off the suggested retail price.

Now are these 50% of course Sony licensed products worth any less? Of course not.

Let's say for the sake of argument a 3rd party approached my factory and wanted me to manufacture a Playstation memory card and controller that said "Tekken Inc." with some pictures on it.

Since there are no licensing issue for the 3rd party design with either Sony or Namco, Tekken Inc. accessory products are cheaper.

Tekken Inc. accessories for the Playstation was made by the same factory that made Sony accessories.

Is the quality any different? No same stuff, just different face plates.

That is the position China is in. By being the factory for the world, they will not need to worry about Brand marketing for a while. Since their competitive edge is price selection.

Look I could school you for days on how Branding is just a tool of marketing and not an end goal for businesses.

Take my advise and read those english language periodicals before you make another ass of yourself.
AC Dropout
   Friday, January 03, 2003 at 09:53:33 (PST)    [24.136.115.189]

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