Can China Avoid the Soviet Union's Fate?
(Updated )

he People's Republic of China likes to compare itself with the United States. Both governments were forged to throw off the imperial yoke. Both are amalgams of many races and nationalities. Both are great continental powers capable of harnessing immense resources to promote national agendas around the world.
     Beijing's bosses cite these parallels to justify China's ambition of returning Taiwan to the fold -- forcibly if necessary -- and violently suppressing movements for Tibetan independence, Moslem separatism and religious tolerance. The party line: "In a few decades we will be as prosperous, unified and democratic as you Americans."
     Unfortunately, some observers see closer parallels to the former Soviet Union.
     Founded in 1910 to free Russian peasants from oppressive landowners and a weak imperial government, the Soviet government quickly and ruthlessly expanded into a superpower that rivaled the United States in military might and reach. On top of nearly 300 million citizens of several dozen captive nationalities, the Soviet Union became the puppetmasters of virtually every Eastern European government. By 1989 it was buckling under the burden of superpower competition. In 1991 the communists lost power to the reformist Yeltsin. The Soviet Union broke apart into Russia and a dozen independent republics. Today Russia is a nation of 150 million struggling to build a capitalist economy from the rubble of the communist meltdown.
     Among the Soviets' earliest converts were Mao Tsetung, Zhou Enlai and other young Chinese intellectuals who saw in communism salvation for the Chinese people from western imperialism and internal corruption. Mao's long struggle against Chiang Kaishek and the Kuomingtang would have ended disasterously without the support of dozens of ethnic minorities in northwestern China who believed his promise of ultimate political autonomy. Their help proved more valuable to Mao than the billions in American aid and direct military assistance to Chiang. By 1949 the Kuomingtang had fled to Taiwan and the PRC ruled the mainland.
     Beijing's bosses have been as ruthless as the Soviets in consolidating territory and suppressing separatist movements. But they have been far more successful in creating a functioning economy. They began capitalist reforms in 1979. By 2001 China's economy had become free enough to enter the World Trade Organization. For the past two decades it has grown at an average annual rate of 9%. Few of China's 1.25 billion go hungry and about 125 million enjoy living standards comparable to Malaysia and the Philippines. By some measure China has just surpassed Japan in GDP and will surpass the U.S. by 2025.
     But China's future as a united nation is far from assured.
     Even assuming peaceful reunification with Taiwan and victory over Tibetan separatists, Beijing's leaders face some big hurdles. They must integrate a billion subsistence-level farmers and workers into the consumer economy of the east coast or face ethnic discontent on a scale that would dwarf America's racial strife of the 1960s. Yet burdening the developed regions could breed separatist sentiment in Guangdong, Fujien, Manchuria and other regions. Over 100 languages and dialects are spoken in China. Long-suppressed religious minorities are becoming better organized thanks to the internet and other communications technology.
     Are China's prospects for staying united more like those of the U.S. or of the former Soviet Union? uh to correct you, we did invent rockets (no not the metal plated, hightech ones you see on TV), which were first used hundreds of years ago in war and I guess celebrations. The rockect technology of Germans in WWII and later the Americans and Russians were a direct expansion of this.

----China was the first to USE rockets and the reason why they were used as to "scare off enemies". Rockets were very simplistic until the Chinese added a stick to them to stabilize the flight path.
Germany's use of the rocket as you state it is untrue. The V series rockets were designed as WOT weapons to be launched randomly into neighboring hostile targets until the gimble was perfected in the V-2 series.

"And computers is a direct expansion of the earliest computer, the abacus."

The first computer was not the abacus, it was the ENIAC enumerator for artillery. Technically speaking, the abacus was not a computer as the current term implies.

i imagine that you might be encountering some discrimination in shanghai right now, which is why you feel the need to release your frustration on the internet through china bashing.
>COMMON SENSE

---On the contrary, the fact I am not Chinese actually allows me special treatment. COPS dont screw with me when I blatantly do things that are "forbidden" like disobeying (read: ignoring) traffic laws. I speak Chinese very well but, if I get into any trouble, all I have to do is say...
"Ting bu Dong" and Im let go. Chinese can't do that.

---I seperate the people from the government in China. The people for the most part are ignorant to the decisions, actions and foriegn policy.
The government of China deserves to be bashed by foriegners because their own people donthave the RIGHTS or ability to do so. You can say whatever you want about me, but you tell me one answer to a question:
"what was the name of the document that was held up and read aloud in Tianamen square's massacre?
Answer- US Constitution
Do you know why?
The people here are puppets of a smothering, backwards, decietful government.
BTW - I sincerely wish that they could find a second face to put on RMB notes. Mao's face is very boring.

If and when the Chinese Space Station becomes reality, the moon and even Mars will suddenly become reachable goals.
Perhaps the first human on Mars will be a Chinese taikonaut. That would be very interesting indeed.

----LOL thats hilarious. I gotta write this one down in case someone asks me to make them laugh.

And guess who has the largest naval 2000 years ago? Answer China..... Guess who found the United States of America? Answer.. Christopher Columbus? NOPE, A Chinese man.
You need a historycourse

Is this a good night to lie on the internet? Gunpowder is accredited to the Chinese (historicaly) and guns are accredited to the British so why will you challenge our accepted knowledge now when no one cares?

You want me to tell you why the Chinese lagged behind in technology for so many years before the computer's invention? Ill tell you why. It's very simple.

The Chinese did not have: the decimal point. They always knew how to design things like the west but, without the decimal point (product of Indian mathematics) they could not calculate minute details of numbers and thus, they were never good at building things accurately. With the advent of computers and auto-cad systems, all the sudden, they are able to do these tings.

I think you should all actually study the Chinese histories before you defend/criticse them.

ACDROPOUT
Doubting Thomas.

I'll give you all the answers you ask for. All you gotta do is pick up the handset and push
086-021-6510-8420 but you better do it before Jan 20th.

Nicholi Servia PHD EMP
   Friday, January 10, 2003 at 03:30:51 (PST)    [211.156.17.230]
Even though I disagree with AC about 70% of the time, the Chinese did invent lots of things. One interesting book you should read is called "The Genius of China." There is also a series of book written by Joseph Needham that talks about many things the Chinese invented, including many early prototypes of equipment that are prevalent today.
Chinese Invention
   Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 18:15:17 (PST)    [209.179.40.157]
"Yes but where do all those Fortune 500 companies need to expand to remain Fortune 500. China."

And that's something to be proud of for you? Hate to break the awful news to you, but the reason those Fortune 500 companies expand to China is to take advantage of exploiting the cheap Chinese labor. But seriously what company wouldn't? China is afterall the world's largest pool of cheap labor. So all this means is that Chinese people (all 94832948239483294932489348 zillion of them) are serving the white man like slaves.

"So in the end China will still have her say, even in the economic areana."

Nope, wrong again the white man has his say.

"Not to mention the latest report of the richest people under 30, a disportional amount of them are from China."

Yeah and these people are either communist party members or have connections to them.

"These things were not invented by the USA."

Never claimed them to be, I'm just refuting your comment that China invented everything. Besides, while these inventions were not made my American, they were made by the white man.

"So China government is now stronger,"

Stronger? HAHA they're on the verge of collapse.

"there is no coalition of 8 nations trying to beat her up now."

So they'd rather beat up their own people? Puleeze. Besides, nobody needs to beat up China, she is beating herself up enough as it is.

"the change is happening."

At 1 MPH.

"Any hello China is too a world power."

I agree...... they are world leaders in piracy, cheap labor, and corruption.

"It has a seat in the UN. It can push us around when it needs space."

Hmm that's funny, I have to feel a push from China. I have yet to know of Americans who've felt pushed by the Chinese. Push? More like a weak attempt of a shove. In fact, the only time a white business man thinks about China is to get rich by exploiting the mainland laborers or cut deals with the commie government. Unless that's something you consider to proud of, I wouldn't brag about it.

"You're one of the reasons USA is on a decline. You are underestimating China."

USA declining? USA today on her worst day is light years ahead of China 20 years from now. China has a long way to go before becoming a superpower much less equivalent to the U.S. Trust me, I have no reason to fear the Middle Kingdom. My fellow Americans have no reason to fear her either. Chinese superpower is all media hype. When China becomes a superpower, I'll be long dead as well 8 generations of my descendants. The only thing China should do right now is improve living standards. The last thing would be to spout off false claims superpower status.
China Is No World Power
   Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 16:49:38 (PST)    [138.23.59.136]
"China is JAPAN X 5!!!!! ?THINK ABOUT IT."

That maybe true but sad to say, the average Japanese still lives better than the average Chinese mainlander. If China was also 5 times Japan in living standard, then she can truly be 5 times that of Japan (it will eventually happen in the near future), but for now it's not so don't brag just yet.
Outclass
   Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 16:25:35 (PST)    [138.23.59.136]
Cixi,

Hey now don't bag on your fellow Chinese like that. I'm Cantonese and I'm damn educated lol! But I can see your point. However, you must take into consideration that the Cantonese were the first Chinese to come to the United States during the Gold Rush era. They were the ones who faced discrimination by the whites, they were the ones who went through the whole railroad labor, Exclusion Act, force living into the ghettos. Besides, not all Cantonese are restaraunt workers or Chinatown people. In fact, many Cantonese became super fabolously wealthy through sheer hard work. Alot of them have become even wealthier than their other Chinese counterparts. Not to mention, Hong Kongers speak Cantonese. My dad is an Investment Banker and my mom a Financial Consultant so yeah we're well off as Cantonese Chinese. But I do agree, Chinese Americans of Northern Chinese descent hold many educational bragging rights. But hey, why are we arguing? We're Chinese, that's all that matters. We should be proud of that.
Northwestern 2007
   Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 16:19:04 (PST)    [138.23.59.133]
Cixi:

"So...you are Canotonese..? No wonder...
Cantonese are the most unsophisticated group of Chinese...they came here on boats and seem to have trouble keeping Chinatowns clean..."

Haha... do yourself a favor and look up some stats about overseas Chinese. 90% of Chinese outside of Asia are CANTONESE. Chinese in Canada? Mostly Cantonese. US? Also, mostly Cantonese. Europe? Even moreso. Shoot, you might as well include Australia in the mix.

Keep chinatowns clean? Go to Chinatown now, and you will be hardpressed to find anyone speaking Cantonese. Most of them are all mainlanders from other provinces I have never even heard of before. I talk about how Chinese girls speak English less than I do? Gee.. thanks for rewording something I posted over four months ago. Also, after Indians (not including Punjabis), Cantonese have the highest per capita income of any overseas Asians.

I don't know where you live, but here in CA, Mandarins are outnumbered by Cantos 4 to 1, except in certain Taiwanese pockets such as Monterey Park/Alhambra. If Mandarins want to do business with Chinese as a whole, they must learn at least basic Cantonese. Go into any "Szechuan" or "northern" Chinese cuisine, and most customers in there are Cantonese. Go to any Taiwanese owned strip mall (usually anchored by a Ranch 99, Lion Super or Marina Foods), and over 75% of the patrons are Cantonese speaking. Go to any boba shop, and it's the same thing. Besides, it's widely acknowledge in all of China (even Beijing) that Cantonese have the best food of all.

When Americans think of Chinese culture, they are really thinking of CANTONESE culture - the food (chow mein, won ton mein, dim sum, etc.), martial arts (lion dancing, wing chun, choy lay fut), movies, words they learn (gung hay fat choy). I never see any northern style Barkley from Sesame Street lions at restaurant grand openings or at the new year parade.

Why is it that all those Shanghai business men I alluded to earlier also speak a little Cantonese? It's because they do business with HK, and plan to do business with Chinese here, and are actually very proud of their ability to speak the language. Canto is not an easy language for a native Mandarin person to speak, so it took them a lot of effort to learn it. If it's the language of "savages," why even bother?

Mr. Chen:

"A Hong Kong girl I know once proclaimed, "Long live colonialism!" Maybe she and bananas like Eric still long for the days when they can live under British rule, kiss up to Whites, and play the role of de facto second class citizens."

So, now you are saying ALL HK people are whitewashed bananas. Yes, HK people do love the British rule. Why? Well, seeing how "superior" northerners still look down on Cantonese as is, how would it be like if HK never existed? If anything, HK gave legitimacy to "low class" Cantonese (even though many living there aren't even Cantonese), proving that they are hard working people, and given the right circumstances, can be a force to be reckoned with. Actually, I think most of the Canto hating you see is just for show. It's just people talking smack. If other Chinese hated HK so much, there wouldn't have been all those people from other regions (including Taiwan, Shanghai and Beijing) going there, and ultimately speaking Cantonese.

"Quite a few Hong Kong people say they don't give a crap what others think, because they are often looked at as lower class and criticized for being generally short, round-faced, unattractive, materialistic, greedy, rude, and totally lacking in social refinements. Perhaps these criticisms hit too close to home."

Haha... you are too funny, man. If you didn't know before, let me school you on some history of HK. HK is NOT all Cantonese! In fact, HK is considered a "melting pot" of all Chinese regions. Just because they all speak Cantonese, it doesn't mean they are all of Cantonese ancestry. There is no such thing as "HK people" in terms of ethnicity. HK is just a city, just like NYC. Actually, the same can be said for Shanghai to a lesser degree since it wasn't widely established until 200 years ago. Like I said above, there are plenty of Beijingers and northerners in HK. We live in America and speak English, right? So that means we are all British? Haha... HK people are greedy and rude. Quite ironic coming from a Taiwanese person.

AC:

"Hell when you go from one city to another in China. What language to you usually hear? It is definitely not mandarin. It is whatever local dialect is there."

This makes no sense in your comparison to the US. These people have been there for hundreds if not thousands of years.

"I just recently hired a rich kid from Heilong Jiang province"

Where is that?

"Here in the USA we are more "classless," you can say "F.U., get off my lawn" to the president of the USA and people wouldn't blink"

And that's a bad thing? That's why freedom is all about. Trying doing that in China, and see how many limbs you will still have left intact the next morning. That is... if you are still breathing.

Man, like I said, you guys have too much aggression in here, just hurling names and insults. I think Goldsea should change it's banner to "Anti-Whitey Supersite" instead of "Asian American Supersite," since all you people seem to do is talk bad about the white man, and anyone who dares support America. You guys would love this rag called www.asianweek.com. I absolutely hate that piece of crap. It's just a bunch of freelancers who talk about "injustices" and how Asians are treated poorly in America, while at the end of the day, they drive their M3's back into one of their three garages in their sprawling 3,000 sq. ft. suburban homes. Get real, people.
TSJ
Eric@KristinKreuk.net    Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 12:24:29 (PST)    [67.116.230.84]
AC-

correction to you-

the telephone is NOT a US "pure" invention. Its inventor, Alexander Graham Bell, was a Canadian.
Ai Ya
   Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 10:56:56 (PST)    [66.121.146.67]
Nicholi Servia PHD EMP,

"Any time you doubt Nick's location, dial
086-021-6510-8420"

I called that number. Guess what I got, the ShiangHai Micky D. They say you sleep in the back of the restuarant when they close up every night.

How appropriate.
AC Dropout
   Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 09:42:19 (PST)    [24.136.115.189]

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