Can China Avoid the Soviet Union's Fate?
(Updated )

he People's Republic of China likes to compare itself with the United States. Both governments were forged to throw off the imperial yoke. Both are amalgams of many races and nationalities. Both are great continental powers capable of harnessing immense resources to promote national agendas around the world.
     Beijing's bosses cite these parallels to justify China's ambition of returning Taiwan to the fold -- forcibly if necessary -- and violently suppressing movements for Tibetan independence, Moslem separatism and religious tolerance. The party line: "In a few decades we will be as prosperous, unified and democratic as you Americans."
     Unfortunately, some observers see closer parallels to the former Soviet Union.
     Founded in 1910 to free Russian peasants from oppressive landowners and a weak imperial government, the Soviet government quickly and ruthlessly expanded into a superpower that rivaled the United States in military might and reach. On top of nearly 300 million citizens of several dozen captive nationalities, the Soviet Union became the puppetmasters of virtually every Eastern European government. By 1989 it was buckling under the burden of superpower competition. In 1991 the communists lost power to the reformist Yeltsin. The Soviet Union broke apart into Russia and a dozen independent republics. Today Russia is a nation of 150 million struggling to build a capitalist economy from the rubble of the communist meltdown.
     Among the Soviets' earliest converts were Mao Tsetung, Zhou Enlai and other young Chinese intellectuals who saw in communism salvation for the Chinese people from western imperialism and internal corruption. Mao's long struggle against Chiang Kaishek and the Kuomingtang would have ended disasterously without the support of dozens of ethnic minorities in northwestern China who believed his promise of ultimate political autonomy. Their help proved more valuable to Mao than the billions in American aid and direct military assistance to Chiang. By 1949 the Kuomingtang had fled to Taiwan and the PRC ruled the mainland.
     Beijing's bosses have been as ruthless as the Soviets in consolidating territory and suppressing separatist movements. But they have been far more successful in creating a functioning economy. They began capitalist reforms in 1979. By 2001 China's economy had become free enough to enter the World Trade Organization. For the past two decades it has grown at an average annual rate of 9%. Few of China's 1.25 billion go hungry and about 125 million enjoy living standards comparable to Malaysia and the Philippines. By some measure China has just surpassed Japan in GDP and will surpass the U.S. by 2025.
     But China's future as a united nation is far from assured.
     Even assuming peaceful reunification with Taiwan and victory over Tibetan separatists, Beijing's leaders face some big hurdles. They must integrate a billion subsistence-level farmers and workers into the consumer economy of the east coast or face ethnic discontent on a scale that would dwarf America's racial strife of the 1960s. Yet burdening the developed regions could breed separatist sentiment in Guangdong, Fujien, Manchuria and other regions. Over 100 languages and dialects are spoken in China. Long-suppressed religious minorities are becoming better organized thanks to the internet and other communications technology.
     Are China's prospects for staying united more like those of the U.S. or of the former Soviet Union? "Now that Hong Kong is under Chinese rule, the school system teaches Mandarin, not Cantonese, so your Cantonese supriority bullcrap is going nowhere."

---No, they are still teaching Cantonese.

"I will say however that Taiwanese girls look better than Cantonese girls."

---This is a gross generalization based on individual biases and pre-conceptions and may not be true.

"As for Cantonese being the language of business: wrong again."

---Cantonese is very much a lingua franca in Southern China and even SE Asia. Many ethnic minorities will know Cantonese but have a hard time with Mandarin. Many SE Asian Chinese of different groups will communicate via Cantonese.

"Pretty much everyone in Hong Kong understands Mandarin, but only a small percentage of Mandarin speakers understand Cantonese."

---I'd say HKers might understand simple words, but they won't speak Mandarin. A lot of Cantonese in Guangzhou province can't even master Mandarin...a lot of other non-Mandarin Chinese are not masters of Mandarin.

"If I want to order dim sum in Hong Kong I may want to speak Cantonese. If I want to close a million-dollar deal, my presentation will be entirely in Mandarin. That's the bottom line."

---Amongst Cantonese themselves, they will conduct business in Cantonese. Both the governors of HK and Macau conduct official business in Cantonese.

I'm not Cantonese, but I am trying to be fair. You can't attack an individual by attacking a whole group of people, who in modern Chinese history have provided much of the revolutionary zeal and nation-building selflessness that wasn't present else where.

It is not right to beat someone over the stick with the whole "Mandarin is the superior language/culture/people and we dominate you" sign on it.
It is a form of cultural imperialism that made Taiwanese so bitter against the Nationalist govt. (and no, I'm not Taiwanese either).

Mandarin became tthe "national language" because China needed desperately a common language to identify with in those chaotic years of Western domination and Chinese cultural break-up. Mandarin is no more legitimate or special than any other and shouldn't be used as a stick to beat someone with.

I am a Mandarin speaker who wants to be objective and fair. In attacking anyone, we shouldn't attack his people.

Individual fools are fair game though.
another voice
   Sunday, January 12, 2003 at 06:44:11 (PST)    [68.9.169.159]
I just so happened to go by Pudong International Airport today to take a visiting lecturer to his flight around 2 o’clock this Afternoon and I got an excellent chance to really see those "track houses" AC dropout was referring to.
Frankly, AC, you must be kidding me.
I took plenty of pictures of the area you described but, your description was lacking one very important element...
The entire area is a dilapidated waste area.
Those houses (and I took pictures of every single dirty looking one I could) would make most foreigners look and ay “goddamn…this place needs money and fast”. Are you really going to argue with the fact that the people living there are living next o a major highway that is being trafficked by brand new foreigners daily yet, they don’t have the understanding to clean up the area nor, a government that will fund the money for it?
I was with a Chinese professor named Wang Yi Jing who asked me why I was taking soo many pictures of the area and houses with my camera. (The real reason is to have a backup for my argument). She thought I was spying.
Wang stared at the area in disbelief surprised that people lived there. I was surprised to. Your wonderful Maglev Train was built to make an 8 minute trip in between the airport and the city but all the people living between the airport and city have virtually no ready transportation. Had this been a city in America, that mag- lev train would be a railroad train making 5 mile stops.

These great houses you were talking about are over shadowed by the brand new Mag-Lev Train track. I was able to see the mag-lev's very
beginnings and follow the track to the other side. I am not sure who taught the Chinese about COLOR COORDINATION but, the Mag-lev’s un-paintable granite, multi colored tracks look so shabby, It actually took me a while to figure out where it was on first sight.
I was desperately looking for the power lines that run around the capacitators.
I was able to catch a few glimpse of the train in its run. I will admit, it was very interesting to see one since the only others are in Europe and the sight of it was beautiful as it quickly disappears from sight. I happened to be in the car with a driver who shares my views of the backwards, deceitful government and we both had a conversation about how the Maglev train benefits only the rich in Pudong and costs FAR to much to be necessary. That is right, the Maglev train is not necessary. China built it to show off.
I guess America could build one for the $30 Billion except for the fact that we would much rather spend $2 Billion on a B2 and $45 M on an F22. I prefer technology over luxury any day.

So basically what I realized today is that strangely enough, in between the technologicaly profficient (French designed) airport and the futuristic (pussified pink ) colors of Pudong (also foriegner designed) there is absolutely nothing Shanghai can show us besides a rotting corpse of a villiage.

Im gonna email you the photos Eric in case you haven't seen the place recently.
Nicholi Servia PHD EMP
   Sunday, January 12, 2003 at 05:07:45 (PST)    [211.156.4.89]
Gentlemen (and Christine),

I really wouldn't waste too much time on this Nicholi Servia character. A quick visit to Google quickly reveals that there is no widely recognized person by that name. The name does not appear in any news items, web pages, or Internet discussion groups for the last decade or so. Real physicists of my personal acquaintance, although unknown to the general public, can all be easily found in Google searches.

Therefore, this "Dr. Servia" can only be a fictitious personality invented by someone. Judging from the numerous errors in his writing, that someone is either an immature teenager, or an idiotic adult. In either case, his opinions are worse than worthless.

This is also the reason why "Nicholi" will never answer any challenges about the source of his degree. That degree is just as fictitious as the name.

Eric / TSJ should be ashamed of being on the same side as this fraudulent character. On the other hand, Eric / TSJ may not be capable of feeling shame at all. After all, he is a young man with a promising career as an obedient and well-behaved houseboy for some affluent White household somewhere.
Frank Persu
   Saturday, January 11, 2003 at 20:19:32 (PST)    [66.125.215.18]
You see what happens when Asain people fight each other. We see a clear example in North and South Korea. They can't get along, their country is divided. What kind of respect do people give to that? It not only give them less respect but also make them easier target to be bully. And makes them less strong as a country.

If United States was divided, I think the government from one side would kill the other side. And what does it make America, just states thats divided instead of United. It won't be such a super-power after it has divided.

I tell you, Korea, will always have conflict. It's going to be on and off, but conflict is inevitiable, until it is united. This is bad for Korea because it makes their country weak, easy to bully and accomplish nothing. I'm just happy China is all together and is a member in U.N. Other-wise, Asian don't play a big role in the international stage.

There are more people in Korea that dis-like U.S then do. Just not too long ago, two korea girl got crush by american solider's Jeep, I don't think they even got punish for it. America will do what it will when they rule Korea, that's for sure. They'll go by their rule and laws whether they want to punish them for the crime or not.

Last point I want to make is this, If U.S goes to war with North Korea. Japan and South Korea will be endanger. Battle field will be in south Korea, and hundred of thousand of people will die. If U.S use Nuke, North Korea will also use Nuke, they will first Nuke Japan since american solider are there. And they will nuke South Korea and even Hawaii. Now if China and Russia is to get involve [which can happen because it is not too far from there], it's going to be world war, that's for sure. BTW, China and Russia has more sympathy toward North Korea. Anyway if this is the case, millions of people will die. South Korean's don't want war, it will only kill more of their people. Just sad....

What's even more sad is that some south Korean's out of fear of North Korean is that they become naive and thing U.S is their lord and savior. Brain-Wash, I tell you.
Civil War
   Saturday, January 11, 2003 at 17:56:16 (PST)    [24.239.152.113]
-Doubtful Thomas
-Phil Chen
- Ac Dropout

I have absolutely no problem telling you what you wanna here except for the fact that I am STILL waiting for Ac Dropoutto prove his claims and he hasn't. I don't really care what you believe because your not very important people. You seem to take comfort in anonymity so I think besides a few statements about my background, I will to. With, or without proving facts about myself, I can still pretty much debate anything I want.
You call me up and I will gladly chat in Chinese or Serbian if you can. Just don't play me and say that your afraid to call here.

Lemme flip it around and ask you what YOUR PEOPLE has done. Since WE ARE ALL AMERICANS, I don't mean your people as American. I mean what has your people done? Wutever the hell you are...Brazilian? Blk? Italian?

Well, I come from a mixed background.
European and African/Native Indian American.
I don't need to explain what either of them has done because they make their success well-known.
Nicholi Servia PHD EMP
   Saturday, January 11, 2003 at 17:16:45 (PST)    [211.156.8.215]
What has your people done NICKI?
another voice,

His people like to eat the food that we people cook for them.

His people like to use the stuff that we invented.

His people like to drive the car that our people made for them.

His people, after using our stuff have no appreciation to what our people did for them all this time. It's a shame.

so any way, what did your people do and bring to this world, NICKI???

Nicki,

You know that Asains can't do everything and bring everything in this world, right? Everyone has to contribute. If we were the one bring everthing in this world then, o0o my god, well be "God". You know, So stop putting too much pressure on the Chinese or asians here on this site.

another voice,

I think some of the Anti-Chinese here just want us to list all invention that are Chinese. And yet they can't even list anything their own people made, what a shame. They just want to be lazy and let the asian men provide from them. If they continue this, U.S will fall back sooner than expected.
Toshiba
   Saturday, January 11, 2003 at 15:15:32 (PST)    [24.239.152.113]
China ruled the sea centuries ago. It has the largest ship and it out number European. In the year 1421 through 1423, it was the Chinese who were the first to round the Cape of Good Hope, to reach the Americas and to circumnavigate the world. That explains how it dicover America in the year 1421, 70 ty years before Columbus.

It was the Chinese sailor who mapped the whole world centuries before European explorers. The European explorers use the Chinese map in their later navigation around the world, Columbus is one of them.

If the Chinese had not turned it's back on its "glorious maritime and scientific hertiage and retreated into a long, self-imposed isolation from the outside world" 600 years ago, China would still have control the sea to this day.

Here is a quote from an article;
Zheng He (1371-1435 AD), an eunuch in Ming dynasty, built a total of 1622 ships and made at least 7 major excursions between 1405 AD and 1430 AD, reaching Somalia and probably Europe (France, Holland and Portugal). In each trip, he led a troop of 27,800 people on more than 300 ships. In each trip, 62 major ships of this fleet were employed, each about 475 ft long and 193 ft wide, holding 1000 people per ship, dwarfing Columbus’ Santa Maria (75 ft x 25 ft) more than 6-fold.

This is researched and found by an British historian name Gavin Menzies. Here is a quote from another article, "His book expands his theory that the Chinese circled the world in fleets of vast many-masted ships between 1421 and 1423, reaching as far as America, Australia and Greenland". He has many evidence to prove that the Chinese navigated the world before any European explorer.

If any of the self hater who have doubt, go look for a book title "1421 The Year China Discovered America" or "1421 The Year China Discovered the World".

http://www.rense.com/general31/centur.htm
Honda
   Saturday, January 11, 2003 at 14:51:25 (PST)    [24.239.152.113]
NS PHD EMP,

Now I called the number twice. Extension 2 is the Janitor's mailbox for the McD you work at in Shanghai.

Slowly the truth about you is revealed.

Doubting Thomas,

Nick probably bought one of those fake "PHD" accreditation.
AC Dropout
   Saturday, January 11, 2003 at 10:56:57 (PST)    [24.136.115.189]

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