Can China Avoid the Soviet Union's Fate?
(Updated )

he People's Republic of China likes to compare itself with the United States. Both governments were forged to throw off the imperial yoke. Both are amalgams of many races and nationalities. Both are great continental powers capable of harnessing immense resources to promote national agendas around the world.
     Beijing's bosses cite these parallels to justify China's ambition of returning Taiwan to the fold -- forcibly if necessary -- and violently suppressing movements for Tibetan independence, Moslem separatism and religious tolerance. The party line: "In a few decades we will be as prosperous, unified and democratic as you Americans."
     Unfortunately, some observers see closer parallels to the former Soviet Union.
     Founded in 1910 to free Russian peasants from oppressive landowners and a weak imperial government, the Soviet government quickly and ruthlessly expanded into a superpower that rivaled the United States in military might and reach. On top of nearly 300 million citizens of several dozen captive nationalities, the Soviet Union became the puppetmasters of virtually every Eastern European government. By 1989 it was buckling under the burden of superpower competition. In 1991 the communists lost power to the reformist Yeltsin. The Soviet Union broke apart into Russia and a dozen independent republics. Today Russia is a nation of 150 million struggling to build a capitalist economy from the rubble of the communist meltdown.
     Among the Soviets' earliest converts were Mao Tsetung, Zhou Enlai and other young Chinese intellectuals who saw in communism salvation for the Chinese people from western imperialism and internal corruption. Mao's long struggle against Chiang Kaishek and the Kuomingtang would have ended disasterously without the support of dozens of ethnic minorities in northwestern China who believed his promise of ultimate political autonomy. Their help proved more valuable to Mao than the billions in American aid and direct military assistance to Chiang. By 1949 the Kuomingtang had fled to Taiwan and the PRC ruled the mainland.
     Beijing's bosses have been as ruthless as the Soviets in consolidating territory and suppressing separatist movements. But they have been far more successful in creating a functioning economy. They began capitalist reforms in 1979. By 2001 China's economy had become free enough to enter the World Trade Organization. For the past two decades it has grown at an average annual rate of 9%. Few of China's 1.25 billion go hungry and about 125 million enjoy living standards comparable to Malaysia and the Philippines. By some measure China has just surpassed Japan in GDP and will surpass the U.S. by 2025.
     But China's future as a united nation is far from assured.
     Even assuming peaceful reunification with Taiwan and victory over Tibetan separatists, Beijing's leaders face some big hurdles. They must integrate a billion subsistence-level farmers and workers into the consumer economy of the east coast or face ethnic discontent on a scale that would dwarf America's racial strife of the 1960s. Yet burdening the developed regions could breed separatist sentiment in Guangdong, Fujien, Manchuria and other regions. Over 100 languages and dialects are spoken in China. Long-suppressed religious minorities are becoming better organized thanks to the internet and other communications technology.
     Are China's prospects for staying united more like those of the U.S. or of the former Soviet Union? Are you guys refering to this book?

http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2003/01/07/menzies/index.html

It's shoddy research at best. I'm not denying or believing it either way, but it's far from being 100% solid fact.
TSJ
Eric@KristinKreuk.net    Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 20:22:33 (PST)    [67.116.231.45]
Nicki,

Ok, so why don't you go reread my post again, cause obviously you're imagining things that are not there once again. Or you're acting out of your usual defensiveness when someone points out a fact. I'm telling China is no superpower, that one day, America will not be the only dominant force in the world. There will be other countries that will be equally strong or perhaps even stronger. If you look at the history of humans, I think you'll realize that my point is more than valid. Also, America is not invincible. I don't think any country in this world is invincible. I was telling people like China is no superpower and you that just because America is the strongest now and that other countries have various issues, doesn't mean that the almighty US of A will be surpassed or that another country won't develop into a superpower. The condescending attitude towards weaker countries can only be harmful to yourself in the long run. I did not however, state anything about how America isn't a superpower.

"China has 3 million soliders and some nukes....big deal, BUT, America is the only country in the world who has the ability to conduct warfare in countries over 9,000+ miles away.
No other country has the FORWARD TROOP Deployment standards that America has.
No other country has the stealth technology America has."
Right, and did I ever say that America's military isn't the best in the world, or that China or whatever other country has a better military?

"No other country can boast un-invadable cities like America can because no other country has a Police force or civilians with the types of weapons and numbers we have."

It's not 100% univadable.

"The British don't conquer with guns and bullets, they conquer the mind."

Yea, conquer the mind or in other words, the results of imperialism from centuries ago. The British used to rule the land and the seas. Though their influences in the world today can't be denied, most of it is the result of its glorious days awhile ago. The British is not making any significant impact, they're not creating history like they once did. America has took over that role in the 20th century.

"Perhaps you can explain to me why it is that in China, all te men have abandoned traditional clothes for buisness suits (British style) even when they are lowly cab drivers? I wonder why the man who begs me for change has a shirt and tie?"

It's the phenomenon called westernization, in case if you've never heard before. A couple hundred years ago all the way up till the last century, the white man took over the world and established the modern mentality that the west, is the way to modernize(since the western/caucasian countries are the ones in power). Again, this is a global phenomenon due to the aftereffects of imperialism. It has to do with other western powers as well, not the British alone. It doesn't show anything about how the British rule the minds of people today but it does show the power that the British once had(rulling by the bullet).

"PErhaps you can explain why many of the prominent eye surgeons who offer Chinese women "corrective" eye surgery to remove slantedness are British."

This relates to the British conquering the mind because? Chinese women are not the only people who get plastic surgery. And British surgeons are not the only ones giving out eye surgery. Last time I checked most Chinese women get it done by Asian doctors. British women get plastic surgery as well. Nowadays, whether you're white, black, Native American, Indian, Asian, whatever, people are getting cosmetic surgery done. I'm sure that they're all trying to imitate the British.

"Perhaps you can explain to me why when I walk through a mall, the models are usually white women?"

Sorry, but you're losing it. What does this have to do with the British ruling through the mind? The models are not necessarily British. And maybe in America the models are white because America has a large percentage of caucasians. The modeling industry has a much greater percentage of caucasian models than that of any other race. If you're talking about in China, ok then it depends on whether it's a foreign or domestic company, eg a European/American company probably won't pay for extra Asian advertisement when they already have their pictures shot regardless of whether the models are white or not. However, most of the white models used by domestic companies are Russian, meaning cheap labor. The white models are not due to British manipulation. You sway too much from the argument, stay on focus.

"Could it all be that perhaps the people are trying to be someone else?
I call that MANIPULATION. "

Why don't you ask the beggar why he's wearing a suit. I'll bet money that he won't say something like, oh because I'm trying to be a white man. No one's trying to be anyone else, they're merely acting according to social memes, which result from various causes.

"The sun never sets on the British Empire"

Nothing against the British but the days when they ruled are over. Sure they still left their influences all over the world, but they're not manipulating anyone.

One day Nicholi, you will wake up alive or dead, depending on how long America can stay on top and realize that America isn't the best anymore. It's inevitable that an end/decline come to all great civilizations/powers
Oh yeah, you should take a moment and appreciate the influence the Romans have on people today. The Roman civilization is dead. And according to your theory the dead Romans are ruling the mind of modern people, including you PHD.
Christine
   Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 13:50:27 (PST)    [141.151.10.244]
NS PHD EMP,

"Oh and to correct your little black man in project statement, Actually, I live in a neighborhood called BAYSIDE"

Hahahahah. Get real. At best your from Southern Queens. Like a Jamaica Ave. homey. You probably only come to Northern Queens to catch a movie once and a while, where the floors aren't all gummed up. Or to do your Xmas shopping.
Rift Raft like you are usually kept out of Bayside to keep the property value up. The only welcomed minority I see in Bayside are usually asian.

Please how many other Black people did you grow up with in Bayside?

The rent-a-cops in Bayside probably have you on record though.

Good one. hahahahaha.
AC Dropout
   Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 13:03:46 (PST)    [24.136.115.189]
Response to Nicholi (PhD my ass):

An earthquake can't possibly swallow people up to "the depths of the inner core." If you aren't trying to make a joke, your science is lame. If you are trying to make a joke, your humor is lame.

In regards to your living arrangement in Queens: now we see you have an imaginary home and an imaginary car to go along with your imaginary degree. Very creative.

As for American military might: The spread of nuclear capability is making a powerful conventional military force increasingly irrelevant.

That is why Bush wants to go after Saddam before he gets nukes. Once he gets them, all bets are off. In the same way, because China has nukes, U.S. military intimidation doesn't mean what it used to. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Chinese men wearing suit and tie means they are trying to be someone else? So all the beautiful Hollywood actresses wearing chi-pao / cheongsam are trying to be Chinese? What an interesting theory.

Nowadays the British can't attempt to conquer a whole lot other than dental hygeine. Face reality, Nicholi.

The Brits had their turn in the sun late 19th century and early 20th century. Then it was America's turn. Japan threatened to take over for a short while but couldn't sustain it. In the near future it will be China's turn.

The Blacks are nowhere in this global picture. It's either Yellow Peril or Caucasian Conquest. Either Whites on top or domination by the Chinese. Where's the brotha in all this? Hey, I totally understand your feelings of resentment, impotence and frustration, Nicholi.

To AC, Another Voice, Christine, etc.:

Looks like Eric / TSJ has run away with his tail between his legs. My work is done.

Over the past few weeks, Nicholi has become my favorite punching bag and laughing stock as well. Making him look stupid has been a lot of fun. I'll miss it!
Phil Chen
   Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 12:35:08 (PST)    [207.214.44.147]
"Since you told us you are Blk and you are probably mostly Blk, lets examine what Africa had given the rest of us.

...............I can't think of anything. This is not me trying to be mean. Really, I can't think of anything."

I'm not defending Nicholi here, but please stop with the racist comments. It doesn't matter if he is black or not. The blatant racism you people are exhibiting is totally uncalled for. Obviously, you have never heard of George Washington Carver, one of the most influential inventors of any race.

"Perhaps living in California, you think you are top sh!t but let me explain something to you... you are incorrect."

Hey, hey, Nicholi! AC lives in NYC. I'm the one who lives in CA. Maybe you don't have your facts right after all. =/

"If you go back a bit in the messages, you'll see where I state clearly that I am only providing the anti-Cantonese bits to balance out Eric's moronic Cantonese superiority trip. I personally don't have a beef with most people from Canton or Hong Kong."

When did I say Cantonese are superior? I just said that there are more overseas Cantonese than any other Chinese. I also said that other Chinese hate on us. You say you don't personally, but the word "anti" is too strong to be used for an objective view. It was YOU who said HK is a dump. Uhh... come again? Who's the one making moronic statements now?

"Dude, get with the times. Mandarin / Putonghua is now the official language of Hong Kong and has been for 5 years."

China may want it to be, but Cantonese will still use their native language as much as they can. It's only "official" because it's the official language of China, not because everyone speaks it, or desires to. Movies and TV dramas are still made in Cantonese. I think it is YOU trying to assert the superiority of Mandarin speakers over Cantonese. How poetic it is that when trying to say that you don't hate HK people, you just incriminate yourself.
TSJ
Eric@KristinKreuk.net    Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 10:56:10 (PST)    [67.116.230.93]
Or come back to America, where you are just another loser. The sad thing is that you can hide behind that shield of America when you're in China, but in America you are nothing, and that's why you are in China.
Since you told us you are Blk and you are probably mostly Blk, lets examine what Africa had given the rest of us.
--another voice

You have repeatedly called me everything from a liar to a farce yet, you choose to accept anything you can make light of whether it is true or not. You are the one who is full of **** considering hat you call a man a liar yet need his lies to insult him. Pathetic. Its ok, your little hate rants don't bother me so much... they are rather hilarious. I'm certain Ac Dropout got a laugh.

The truth is fluid and subject to change if we want it to. You and AC have proven that. I gave you losers my phone number so you could interrogate me yet you backed down like filthy little pets. Pathetic.
You made a typo.

China is nothing, that is why I am here. Coming here makes me appreciate the extras, freedom and power I enjoy in America. I wish we could send all Americans to China for a month so tey would learn to appreciate what they have. We have it all but we waste what we have.
Middle Classed Americans and EVEN the poorer classes live better than the average citizens here.
The minute few Ac Dropout points out with "wealth and power" make up less than 15% of the ****** population.

If you want numbers and %'s I can give em to you either from CIA docs or NSA docs some of which are available online. Before you rant and brag don't forget, we already know the truth (well except maybe you ABC's out there)

You dont miss your water till' your well runs dry.
NS PHD EMP
   Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 09:35:13 (PST)    [211.156.9.45]
NS PHD EMP (aka jing cha),

"NOT A MAG LEV train."

Why do you think I put the terms in quote. I not talking about the technology, but it actually usage. Mass transit to the airport.

You still are not able to answer why the test run in the USA ended in a death of a worker and the one in China did not. Sloppy...the Van wick has been backed up for ages.

Bayside, don't make me laugh there are like 2 black families in that area. So you claim to be one of those 2 black families in Bayside. So that means you either are the Black man at the Jewish retirement home or the Black man living as a super of a one of those Condos.

Actually the land in NYC chinatown is worth more than that of bayside, queens. Don't you know anything fool. Also notice all your neighbors in Bayside are either Chinese or Korean these days. The rent in Bayside is not that expensive compare to mass transit commuter neighborhoods in Queens, like Forest Hills.

"No other country can boast un-invadable cities like America can because no other country has a Police force or civilians with the types of weapons and numbers we have."

How quickly we forget the events of 9-11. The came and toppled two building that were built to withstand plane crashes. I guess that's an example of building things to US code.

Yeah come back to Bayside. I have some Asian friends in the area that would love to meet you.

Notice all the Black people with Chinese characters tatooed on them. Notice all the Chinese flip-flop and ancient bra that are considered high fashion. Notice the military using the term Gung-Ho. Notice all the attention for a Chinese B-ball player Yao Ming. Notice all those asian model on TV commericial when they talk about finacial matters.

The Chinese culture is quite infectious to the invaders, isn't it. Sooner or later all those who invaded China become Chinese. hahahaha
AC Dropout
   Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 09:19:50 (PST)    [24.136.115.189]

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