Can China Avoid the Soviet Union's Fate?
(Updated )

he People's Republic of China likes to compare itself with the United States. Both governments were forged to throw off the imperial yoke. Both are amalgams of many races and nationalities. Both are great continental powers capable of harnessing immense resources to promote national agendas around the world.
     Beijing's bosses cite these parallels to justify China's ambition of returning Taiwan to the fold -- forcibly if necessary -- and violently suppressing movements for Tibetan independence, Moslem separatism and religious tolerance. The party line: "In a few decades we will be as prosperous, unified and democratic as you Americans."
     Unfortunately, some observers see closer parallels to the former Soviet Union.
     Founded in 1910 to free Russian peasants from oppressive landowners and a weak imperial government, the Soviet government quickly and ruthlessly expanded into a superpower that rivaled the United States in military might and reach. On top of nearly 300 million citizens of several dozen captive nationalities, the Soviet Union became the puppetmasters of virtually every Eastern European government. By 1989 it was buckling under the burden of superpower competition. In 1991 the communists lost power to the reformist Yeltsin. The Soviet Union broke apart into Russia and a dozen independent republics. Today Russia is a nation of 150 million struggling to build a capitalist economy from the rubble of the communist meltdown.
     Among the Soviets' earliest converts were Mao Tsetung, Zhou Enlai and other young Chinese intellectuals who saw in communism salvation for the Chinese people from western imperialism and internal corruption. Mao's long struggle against Chiang Kaishek and the Kuomingtang would have ended disasterously without the support of dozens of ethnic minorities in northwestern China who believed his promise of ultimate political autonomy. Their help proved more valuable to Mao than the billions in American aid and direct military assistance to Chiang. By 1949 the Kuomingtang had fled to Taiwan and the PRC ruled the mainland.
     Beijing's bosses have been as ruthless as the Soviets in consolidating territory and suppressing separatist movements. But they have been far more successful in creating a functioning economy. They began capitalist reforms in 1979. By 2001 China's economy had become free enough to enter the World Trade Organization. For the past two decades it has grown at an average annual rate of 9%. Few of China's 1.25 billion go hungry and about 125 million enjoy living standards comparable to Malaysia and the Philippines. By some measure China has just surpassed Japan in GDP and will surpass the U.S. by 2025.
     But China's future as a united nation is far from assured.
     Even assuming peaceful reunification with Taiwan and victory over Tibetan separatists, Beijing's leaders face some big hurdles. They must integrate a billion subsistence-level farmers and workers into the consumer economy of the east coast or face ethnic discontent on a scale that would dwarf America's racial strife of the 1960s. Yet burdening the developed regions could breed separatist sentiment in Guangdong, Fujien, Manchuria and other regions. Over 100 languages and dialects are spoken in China. Long-suppressed religious minorities are becoming better organized thanks to the internet and other communications technology.
     Are China's prospects for staying united more like those of the U.S. or of the former Soviet Union? Who the hell is this "Nicholai PhD" character anyway? Is he black? Is he white? I remember reading one of his initial posts claiming that he lived in China, but my memory is hazy. He sure sounds like one demented loser though.

The fact remains.... he can postulate all he wants like some wannabe academic. In the meantime Asia will rise to unforseen heights while cobwebs form over his face. Then he will die and go away forgotten.

Hey, what can I say... I must be some sort of fortune teller.

PS: despite my name, I am Asian. =)
Forza Italia!
   Saturday, January 18, 2003 at 03:25:19 (PST)    [172.137.251.111]
1-White men don't want asian men to dominate the world.

2-Black Men had experienced that the White man are already on top. And it's nothing they can do about it. It's a norm for them. But they don't want to be left behind so they are afraid of the Asian men rising.

3-Asian men just want to rise above the White man, regarless.
AB
Wednesday, January 15, 2003 at 15:28:07 (PST) [24

--- Interesting points that were pretty much ignored, so I'll bring them up again -- and I generally agree.

East Asians will one day challenge and DEFINATELY come to par with, perhaps even overtake most West European nations in terms of power and wealth. The only real contenders will be the USA.

On the other hand, most blacks on this Earth will remain in 3rd World status for at least the next century. Their economy is already in shambles thanks to rampant borrowing and the resultant debt. And the current AIDS epidemic has all but wiped out the critical reproductive-age segment of most sub-Saharan African nations. Things don't look good for them.

I'm not appluading the REASONS why Africa and the Black Man are in such dire straits now -- but the fact remains that they will probably remain at the bottom of humanity (in terms of quality of life and power) for the a long, LONG time.

Even if the next world order were to come after East Asia, it will most likely be Central and South America, not Africa.

Does this sound racist, somehow? Perhaps, depending on how you take it. Otherwise, I'm merely stating the truth.

I think its ridiculous how some black Americans have false hopes of living vicariously through Africans in Africa, as if to insinuate that a golden age of black people will come around. Hmmph.
Too bad.
   Saturday, January 18, 2003 at 03:13:50 (PST)    [172.137.251.111]
"In fact, after all my travels I must conclude Hong Kong food ranks with Taiwanese food as the absolute best in the world, far surpassing any European cuisine including the French."

Phil Chen,

I agree about the Cantonese cuisine, but not about the French food. It's generally shyte. Really. ITALIAN FOOD IS WHERE IT'S AT.

Okay, this is totally tangential, so let's leave it at that. Haha..
Forza Italia!
   Saturday, January 18, 2003 at 02:58:34 (PST)    [172.137.251.111]
"I'm not defending Nicholi here, but please stop with the racist comments. It doesn't matter if he is black or not. The blatant racism you people are exhibiting is totally uncalled for. Obviously, you have never heard of George Washington Carver, one of the most influential inventors of any race."

TSJ, I was not being racist when I said "Since you told us you are Blk and you are probably mostly Blk, lets examine what Africa had given the rest of us................I can't think of anything. This is not me trying to be mean. Really, I can't think of anything."

When I said I can't think of any inventions by Africans, it is the truth.
Just like when you say that people in China are this or that. This is not being racist. Being racist is showing hate and disdain towards a group of people solely because of the conditions they were born with.

I'm actually one of the few here who doesn't go the way of putting down a poeple's race, and the few doesn't include you if you think about the comments you yourself has made.

P.S. You mention one Black American inventer of something (is it really that important in the larger context?)
What does this man, a product of Western civilization (or atleast American civilization), have to do with people in Africa?
There is something really jaded and racially obsessive in making that connection. The Chinese guys making up new programing languages in Silicon Valley will claim their achievements as Chinese inventions then???

This is getting too silly.
All should stop making generalizations and insults about grousp of people. There are a alot of good Blk people(hehe really) ...so the insults about Blks should stop.

And the long-term solution is either for Nicki to get out or more likely, for you people to stop talking and replying to him. It only feeds the flames of this egomaniac
another voice
   Saturday, January 18, 2003 at 01:05:34 (PST)    [68.9.169.159]
"Pretty ironic how you call me paranoid, when you guys are the ones who are soooooooo afraid of the "white man," and get butt hurt when someone tells THE TRUTH, even if it doesn't defend China."

I don't think anyone is holding the illusion that China is the greatest land ever. Seriously, who has said that?
What people do take offense at is an intentional bad will shown by Nick (are you thick-skulled not to see this?) and the fawningly hopeless attitude you take to being blind to his unfair, incendiary, and racial comments while arguing with everyone else.

You would have more credibility if you didn't just take one side.

"You say I am anti-China, but it's painfully obvious that you are anti-USA, and you are LIVING IN THE USA. Who do you pay your taxes to? Certainly not to China. Get your priorities straight."

Being critical has a long and rich tradition in this country.

"For the final time, I love the traditional Chinese culture, just not the country."

Well, I didn't see anyone wishing to make love to the Chinese government here. Be reasonable.
another voice
   Saturday, January 18, 2003 at 00:44:10 (PST)    [68.9.169.159]
"If I had wanted to lie, could I not have claimed to own a Lexus or BMW? according to Christine, their are plenty of those but, no Buicks (which she is dead wrong about)."

I saw a lot of Lexuses and BMWs there. This is just silly. What does this prove anyway?

"PHIL CHEN and Another Voice contine to write their silly rants about Nich while totally ignoring negative information NICK posts which can be proven."

Do you have any intelligence whatsoever?
I rant about nothing except the immaturity and silliness of Nicki's posts. What would be the point debating who invented what, who designed what, what country has the most dirty buildings, hookers, bums, and Buicks? If you think this is some impressive information that needs to be discussed, then you are one stupid unedumacated clown.
another voice
   Saturday, January 18, 2003 at 00:37:21 (PST)    [68.9.169.159]
TIme is nearing Monday here. In a short while I have to leave here to Tokyo.
Ill be away fom the forum for a few days so do me a favor and save the insulting and racial remarks until I get back. Thanks alot!

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/01/16/china.diaspora.reut/index.html
It basically claims a lot of foriegn trained Chinese, who left China for better opportunities are now returning.

-----I will analyze this and get back to you later.

Nicki, my question is, if you hate the Asian race so much, why are you still here trying to prove yourself in front of a bunch of Asians, whom you consider to be inferior?

Funny you ask that. I remember having a professor in Philosophy who was hell-bent on proving that the philosophical way was corret and that the world that ignored philosophy was totally wrong.
A throw-back to Socrates.
Sometimes I wonder why people like Socrates and my proffessor just couldn't leave things alone. Apparently, I know why and your question is simply reciprocal.

I do not hate the Asian race. That is your exxageration.

I distrust and dislike the PRC government.
I distrust and dislike the DPRK (who deosn't?)
I personally would like to see China become more like America BUT, what I see here is a country that wants to be like America without knowing hat makes America America. They have no idea what they have and people are quick to ask me "don't you think Shanghai is just like NYC". Arrrrrrrrrrrrgh headache

If this is not paranoia, then I don't know what is. What are you afraid of? If America is so powerful, then tell me why you want to take these ridiculous measures?

----"If everyone fears you, you must fear everyone"

just admit it this time that you know nothing about Asian women.

" I know them from the rooter to the tooter"
Nicoli Servia PHD EMP
   Friday, January 17, 2003 at 17:14:33 (PST)    [211.156.7.138]
TSJ,

"All you people in here are waaaay too mationalistic and closed minded."

Yes save us from being mationalistic. I'm sure the movie Wong Fei Hung has mationalism somewhere in there. When I eat too much peanut butter I love living in our great mation too. hehehe

Yes we are such closed minded individuals because we acknowledge the accomplishment of China, countary to public media perception.

Yes, open our minds to how every Chinese woman is a ho (as you stated from your trip to Shanghai). Open our minds to the coolie image of the good old days in dirty ole' Chinatown. Open our minds to how everyone in China is still wearing a Mao Suit.

Like Falun Gong open our minds and spirits.

Let's sing the chorus to the Chigga rap song call "Chinks like Benjamins, and Chinese women are ho's"

hahahaha.

Really open minded TSJ, citizen of earth.
AC Dropout
   Friday, January 17, 2003 at 12:38:45 (PST)    [24.136.115.189]
TSJ,

"HAHAHA... so I'm a white boy now, huh? Okay, in that case, I'm a white boy who knows Cantonese and about Chinese culture, so what does that make me? Wouldn't that show that I admire Chinese?"

I told you your views were bleached. And you watch way too much Golden Harvest films. ^_^

"If you don't know that Cantos are hated on by other Chinese, you obviously have no clue about Chinese history, or have never been to China."

Look I know a whole lot about this anti Canton thing. It a culmulation of HK being the first Chinese community to rise out of the ashes, the leaders of the 1911 revolution coming out of Canton, overseas Canto being very wealthy in southeast asia.

But does this type to thinking exist today about Cantonese people. I would say much much less than what you are making it out to be.

But seriously let me ask you this what about the USA and the atrocity to Chinese people? Do you see any responsibilty to help make USA better for other Chinese people? Because as history has shown in the USA whitey is not interested in help us. So if it wasn't for us active Chinese American in the USA who are willing the challenge status quo in light of critism, your butt could be still on Angel Island right now.
AC Dropout
   Friday, January 17, 2003 at 09:53:50 (PST)    [24.136.115.189]
Nicholi Servia PHD EMP,

Take a chill pill. You're obviously going have a breakdown in the your near future.

Let take this one step at a time. You claim to be a PhD in Physics. I took grad physics courses in college and I don't have a Phd. Yet your grasp of basic mechanical physics is below mine. So how do you expect me to believe you're a holder of a PhD in physics.

If you have a favorite restuarant in NYC would you tell everyone about it? I usually don't, anyways like I said the popular noodle shop was a test to see if you are indeed a facaulty at Fudan. Since the name of that noodle shop is common knowledge to everyone at Fudan. You failed that test as well.

However, I do believe you own a scooter. That is why you take such offense when I poke fun at it.

Now, TSJ issue. We are not overtly cruel to TSJ because he is more of less up front about himself. Sure he comes across as some ABC whitewashed person who thinks Cantonese are all kickass like Wong Fei Hung. But he's up front about it.

Oh did I mention TSJ doesn't come across as delusional.

You know that funny you think I'm superman. Most people in my peer group think I'm the dumb one. Well like I said perception is relative.

What credential would you like? My handle labels me as a "Dropout" ^_^

Anyways your right about China in that it will develop on its own time table. If you want to have a civil discussion on the matter. I'll more than happy to entertain you.
AC Dropout
   Friday, January 17, 2003 at 09:38:06 (PST)    [24.136.115.189]

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