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ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:38:55 AM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage is't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
Who cares if AF marry WM? I don't. In fact, I would encourage it.
First: It is a GOOD thing. There are a lot more Asians on the planet than Caucasians. And Asian genes are dominant. The more Asian genes are spread throughout the American population, the better. If our problems are due to being in the minority, further intermarriage should help. Look at Phil Gramm's kid - that guy looks a lot more Korean than Caucasian.
Second: Many AF who marry WM are not going to make good mates for AMs anyway. If some AF is truly "self hating" (most are not), or racist against fellow Asians (definitely some of these do exist), why would any AM want to be married to that person? The best thing that AF could do, from the standpoint of an AM, is to marry a WM and dilute their gene pool.
Third: This is not an exclusive phenomenon of Asian Americans. Asians in Asia still have a real colonized perception of whites. A lot of Asian (not American) women want to marry whites, even though they know nothing about America or Europe, and their only knowledge of WM comes from movies. Go to any Asian country and ask about this. White guys who are losers in the US can get a job teaching English in Taiwan and get attractive girls to slobber all over them. If anything, Asian Americans have a more realistic view of whites, because we deal with them daily. The motivations are slightly different between the Asian AF population vs. the Asian American AFs, but the effect is the same.
Fourth: All of the Asian American professional males that I know personally under the age of 40 are married to attractive WFs. Guys, most decent women (of any ethnicity) with good judgement are going to look favorably on smart, well-educated men with earning potential and family values. It's the sluts and hos who care most about other factors.
It would obviously be good if all AFs were culturally and ethnically aware, not racist against Asians, and aware of the sociological issues confronting us. But it's too much to expect - and I don't think all AMs fit that description. We're all only human. Let people do as they will, everything will be fine.
Miscegenation is great
Friday, December 21, 2001 at 06:53:32 (PST)
Now there are a variety of reason for the AF/WM coupling. Why do people always have to bitch about AF selling out? Some of them do, some of them don't. By bringing this up again and again, AM are, if anything, reinforcing this negative impression that exists of our Asian sisters.
I agree with RockHardAzn: if there's a girl you like regardless of her ethnicity, talk to her or look at her and smile or something that tells her you're interested. If she happens to be a sellout or simply not interested, then who cares? She's not for you either way. Don't let it add to you insecurities about your being an AM. People, forget about this issue! This is one of those things that only gets worse the more you dwell on it. It snowballs from insecurities about what the other person thinkgs of you, blah, blah, blah. AM and AF, stop it and start feeling comfortable around each other! Otherwise, you're brainwashing yourselves.
Read my post again and let it sink in.
Friday, December 21, 2001 at 00:51:41 (PST)
As I have experienced it, the AA gender divide is real. AW in my part of the country all seem to desire a WM for a boyfriend/husband. When I tried to approach them, in both a platonic and romantic way, I almost always get shunned in favour of my WM friends. Some AF even go so far as to call AM "revolting" to marry let alone date. This behaviour by AW have driven me into the arms of a WF who I've been happily involved with for the past few months. I have no regrets over choosing a WF as no AF would give me a single chance!
Chinese-Canadian
Tochan2000@rogers.com
Thursday, December 20, 2001 at 22:22:11 (PST)
This is to md,
Your response is a cop-out. There were probably enough AMs around, you were too bitchy for them. Most AFs are materialistic and whitewashed, it is disgusting. AFs always give the excuse that race does not matter. It is easy for them to say that because they are female. Any guy, white, black, or Asian will not discriminate when it comes to sex. However, white women do discriminate. That is why there are not that many AM/WF couples. Well, md, I hope your marriage last at least 5 years because white people usually divorce by that time. Sorry to break it you.
Keep It Real
Thursday, December 20, 2001 at 19:50:48 (PST)
Cause of Gender Divide: Low self-esteem
First off, let me tell you I'm an AA male who receives enough female attention, that i could care less about AA females with White males. So I'm not here to bitch and moan about interacial dating..because for whatever reason..i'm getting shafted. In fact my current girlfriend is a White female..and i had been seening a hot black babe on the side. And as far as dating is concerned I've consistently been involved with multiple women simultaneously in the past. In other words I CAN get girls. Yes, I'd been a bad boy. Not bragging or confessing. Yeah, some of you may frown upon my past behavior..my apologies. Just making a point that not all AA males are non-sexually aggressive.
The AA female obvious believes that most if not all AA male counterparts are somewhat less than a man. I know this because I'd been with many AA women and they tell me this. They believe I should laugh with them as they ridicule their male counterparts..well because I'm not like that. One of those bitches actually said to me after i'd asked her why she's putting down AA men in front of me, "well, you're just a regular american boy!" I was very insulted.
I suppose part of the reason I have little respect for AA females is due to my past experiences with AA bitches. I know that NOT all AA females are like this, but most are sellouts!!! I had been with many..guess they still liked me, but that does not excuse their self-hatred in my eyes.
This is a REAL problem inherent in the AA society today. THE PROBLEM IS LOW-SELF-ESTEEM..PERIOD. NOT some figment of AA male's imagination or jealousy, or the fact that there are more white males than AA males. Low-esteem causes one to value negatively their own traits (often physical) while elevating those traits of others.
The non-Asian women I dated often ask me, "What is up with these Asian women? I see pretty ones with the ugliest white guys." Yes, Non-Asian women DISREPECT you sellout as well. I live in NYC by the way. I dont date non-asian girls because i have low-esteem. Why? Because i find AA women very attractive and would choose one over a non-asian in most cases.
So the question is this: How can we elevate the esteem of our sellout sisters and in some case brothers? I can't see one going through life feeling good about oneself when they consider anything resembling themselves or their heritage inferior. I find this extremely sad. But i also accept this as reality for our community.
I dont have all the answers. I'm an AA male and women actually tend to like me..even the sellouts AA bitches. I believe in inter-racial dating (women are women afterall). But this divide between AA females and males is NOT because of AA females seeking out non-Asian males. That is ONLY a symptom.
In the end, I think it takes a STRONG person to really take a look deep inside one-self and find self-PRIDE and self-esteem.
Modern AA Male Perspective
Thursday, December 20, 2001 at 19:40:06 (PST)
White men are the most sought after in the whole world by women of all
races...in the US, over 50% of all white females would only date or even sit
near white males.
>>>well,if that's true,maybe many white women are ignorant abt males of other races.These are probably white females who have never had any contacts or made freinds with asian men.or probably theyre from some KKK faction or something.
57% would never date or sit near Asian males.
>>> more and more ignorant white bimbos.
So, it is not
a one way street, whatever the feminists might think. The only exception may
be the African American women. White women are also the most sought
after, but unlike their male counterparts, they stick with white males.
>>>really? i dont think white females are the prettiest.
Call it
racism, bigotry, ignorance or anything else..that is life.
>>>well,so be it.there are many women ot there who are more exotic looking and warmer. AM's shouldnt only limit themselves to WF's other than asian women,they should date and try anyone regardless of ethnicity.
koomi
Thursday, December 20, 2001 at 17:17:25 (PST)
ever found out why they avoided you?
>>>There were definately a few exceptions (with whom I had great
friendships with) but generally speaking they would avoid me like the plague. I
can even remember situations growing up when I wanted to invite my cousin
along on outings with my friends. Judging from his enthusiasm I think he would
have rather had his gums scraped.
jia
Thursday, December 20, 2001 at 17:08:33 (PST)
To: md
“I must say AMs never gave me the time of day!”
I’ve once dated an Asian woman who said the same thing to me. After dating her for awhile, I realized that she was indeed embarrassed about her identity as Asian. She would always glorify anything non-Asian, and would degrade, directly or indirectly, my friends who were Asian. She was a learning experience for me; if it weren’t for her, I would have never realized this whole issue of a gender divide in the Asian community here in the US.
I’m not going to say that you’re using this as a diversion for other reasons you have; after all, I don’t know you. However, I know for a fact that some Asian women use this very reason as an excuse as a cover for being ashamed of their identity.
Repost
Thursday, December 20, 2001 at 15:08:15 (PST)
To: Male
If all white women would date white men, then there is a ratio of about 1:1. If only about 40% (100% – the 57% you claimed) of white women will date Asian men, and the Asian population in the US is 10%, then there are four white women who would date Asian men for each Asian man. 4:1 – that’s a pretty good ratio, wouldn’t you say?
Repost
Thursday, December 20, 2001 at 15:08:05 (PST)
Male,
That is entirely a different issue. For one no women of color are loading planes to marry Russian men living in Russia or white men living in Serbia.
Do you not think that perhaps part of the fascination with white men is mainly limited to white males from wealthy nations. Much of the attention lauded them is under the assumption that they have a great deal to offer materially. Hence there is little demand for white men in poor countries. Also the Asian countries where the women do seem to prefer white men on a large scale are also former colonies or were at on time occupied by Western countries.
Also your assesment of the behavior of most white females in America is neither here no there. I never commented about their behavior; only the mind set of "certain" white males.
Repost,
It is evidnet that Ameircan society places a great deal of emphasis on competition and aggressive behavior ( both mental and physical). Argession is commonly linked to the masculine ID and Agression is also synonymous with domination or an attempt to impose your will upon another. This is coupled with the contrasting new theme of girl power and absolute gender equality. The combination of two such contrasting ideas has lead many white males to seek mates elsewhere or from different races. The alternative choice of the colored female is also enhanced by the "white knight hero complex". Many white men (and many women of color) are entirely convinced that white males are clearly a superior choice due to their superior humanity and compassion for women in general. Agian dialectically speaking that means that the man of color is by default crueler, chauvenistic and emotionally distant. Add to that the influence of western media which propogates Caucasian male beauty and values of masculinaty and not to mention a possible pre-conditioned view temepered in a post colonial women. Well the outcome is more often then not a circumstance where white males are preferred mainly for the singular fact that they are white.
Also I can assure you I am not complaining. My post is an academic disertation of motivations and actions, cause and effect, constructionism and deconstructionism.
This did not require a lifetime of obsessing, just a little bit of reading and few observation. I am personally quite happy with the women in my sex life. I just felt that the gender divide topic needed a little academic/psychological/sociological answers and not a string of universal conclusions based on a few peoples personal experiences. While it is inlightening to here, it hardly ever answer the question beyond a single individual.
Makadu
Thursday, December 20, 2001 at 14:19:26 (PST)
Repost,
Out marriage is a complicated issue. Finding a good long term mate within ones own ethnicity is hard enough, but to look at it from an interracial point of view doesn't make the matter any easier.
The "templates" do exist in everyone for their ideal mate. Whether it is an unconsciously or conscious learning process is not really an issue. Whether the person is aware of his or her own "template" for the perfect mate is just an act of self development. Whether the "template" is for another asian is what asian are up in arms about on this board. Political conservatives will never beat mother nature, it just impossible.
So since happiness is so subjective. The real issue is if a person finds their happiness in a non-asian or asian person.
Beauty - Psycological test have shown that people are attracted to anybody that looks young, healthy and sysmetrical.
As a male, I can attest to a many number of occassion my body as told me there was attractive non-asian female in front of me.
I was once in the Ford Presidental Library doing some research (Ann Arbor, MI). Ran across a socialogical study on asian done during his term. The study was done in California and addressed the issue of Chinese asians assimilating in the USA.
The section dealing with out marriages for Chinese asian were as follows. Similar to Cubain immigration we are fully assimilated by the 3rd generation. Similarly out marriage of females were greater than males. Out marriage occur more frequently in later generations.
Aspect of Chinese Culture that promoted out marriages of female.
1) Chinese males coming from a more male dominant society where individual dating custom was not common. At that time the Chinese family in asia would be more say in the selection the right mate for the young male.
2) Chinese women growing up in the USA, not wanting to be "dateless," because the Chinese guys growing up in the USA did not ask them out, would accept dates with non-Chinese male.
3) In conclusion it basically stated the Chinese males were not as fimilar with the USA custom of dating and were losing perspective Chinese female to non-Chinese male.
Hence, reading this research paper done 70's as a freshman in college. It change my whole perspective on the dating game. I ask out anybody that seem interesting. Got a lot of dates. A few became relationships.
RockHardAzn is right, AM need to just make more of an effort to initiate. I cannot believe if you an asian male, in this day and age, and cannot get a date with an Asian female. Unless, your town only has like 3 asian families I can understand the situation. Even if all the hype of AF chasing WM is true. It is only true in degrees. There are also AF chasing AM in the USA. I went to a highschool with 40% asians, so I know it is true.
Also there were a few AF in college, who I considered white washed because they grew up in predominantly white neighborhoods, that asked me out. But then I never treated them any different because they were brought up in a white community. I guess that's why they asked me out.
MD is also right, some AM will treat non-Asian or white washed Asians like dirt sometimes. In college and highschool. Because of my lack of tack or experience in dating. I have snub AF and WF because I though there was nothing further that could develop because of a cultural gap. Granted in hindsight I could have handle it more tactfully. But I guess I was just a dumb guy back then.
AC dropout
Thursday, December 20, 2001 at 13:53:14 (PST)
here's a new way of looking at things:
growing up, none of my asian guy friends have ever had any problems finding girls, asian or white or whatever, to date.
it wasn't until i started reading these message boards that i even knew this problem existed.
you can all probably seen where i am going with this.
maybe you asian guys who *are* bitching on these boards need to get out and become more social.
penelope
Thursday, December 20, 2001 at 13:49:41 (PST)
md,
I take ur contention that there weren't many AM when you were a little lolita with a bit of skepticism. A lack of Asians in So-Cal?? Southern California in the mid-1980s couldn't have been THAT bad. Unless you lived in "(Red)Necker-side", or Riverside, as my friends prefer to call it.
eh.....
Thursday, December 20, 2001 at 11:10:32 (PST)
MD,
Laguna Niguel has no Asian Males? Hmm..., having lived in Southern California for 6 years going to USC and UCLA for undergrad and grad school respectively, I find this a little difficult to believe. Of course, Laguna Niguel is a little FAR from LA and to your credit, you are 8 years older than I am. I believe what you are stating though. Could it be that most Asians didn't move into the Irvine/Mission Viejo area until the last 10 years? hmm... Anyhow, I'm sorry to hear that Asian Males didn't give you the time of day growing up. I do know some AF in your situation where they'd love to be with an AM but were NOT given chances to. Many outdate due to need rather than choice. I guess it's hard to say who really is to blame here. But it seems that the "sellout" AF in the world really give those who aren't (like yourself) a BAD name.
Thanks,
Kevin Yang
Thursday, December 20, 2001 at 11:05:03 (PST)
Enuf said wrote:
>2. Low self-esteem of Asian women, who >desperately wish to be White. Pairing >with (1) above enable them to redeem >some Whiteness in their sad pathetic >lives.
These pathetic and sad women you desperately want.
I don't know when men of all races are going to understand that: insulting and degrading women does *not* make them want you.
Sympatico
Thursday, December 20, 2001 at 10:34:48 (PST)
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