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GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:38:55 AM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage is't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
In his latest contribution, Misc imprecisely characterizes the matter I raised as being simply whether media images have an effect on the AA sex divide. Misc’s imprecise understanding causes Misc falsely to claim that “‘Roger’ denies…the media can…create negative perceptions of Asian people in Asian Americans.” Significantly, Misc calls this his “main point of contention.” “‘Roger’,” Misc continues, “says the media absolutely cannot influence [people’s] racial perceptions.”
Naturally, Misc is wrong.
Misc’s slovenly characterization of the discussion and Misc’s false attribution are perfect examples of Misc’s inability to understand what he reads. The issue I raised is not simply whether media images affect the AA sex divide, neither have I taken the position that Misc falsely attributes to me. Moreover, Misc’s false attribution confirms what I said before, that Misc is actually doing battle against the Big White Man of Misc’s paranoid fantasies.
As I’ve posted ad nauseum, the “very specific issue that I raised [is] the influence -- specifically -- of disparaging images -- specifically -- of AMs -- specifically -- on the opinions that AFs have -- specifically -- of AMs, AND THAT IN COMPARISON WITH the influence on AFs of real world contact.” As I’ve previously said, “I know that media images of various kinds have influences of various kinds on people of various kinds, but those don't help us WITH THE COMPARISON I BROUGHT UP: the influence of uncommon media images with the influence of extensive contact.”
As I’ve also previously explained, to argue as Misc repeatedly does that the media have influence is simply off point. However, in response, Goldsea’s resident tree stump continues to assure me that the media certainly do have influence. I hope at least to everyone but Misc and his cheering section of AM pom-pom boys it is clear that the issue I raised is the comparison between the effect of media images and the effect of real world contact. The issue I raised is not simply whether or not media images have influence, something my comparison takes for granted, I thought obviously.
Of course, to someone who can understand written English, it is obvious, too, that I have never denied what Misc falsely claims I denied, “that the media can … create negative perceptions of Asian people in Asian Americans.” And contrary to Misc’s false attribution, I have never said that “the media absolutely cannot influence [people’s] racial perceptions.” Maybe Misc will quote whatever words of mine Misc believes support his false attribution. Maybe Misc will do this in his next reply.
Despite Misc’s mistaken notion that our “main point of contention” is over Misc’s false insistence that I absolutely deny media influence on AA perceptions of Asians, Misc does evince some awareness of the actual issue, the influence of media images of AMs, specifically, on the perceptions held specifically by AFs of AMs, and that IN COMPARISON WITH the influence of actual contact. Accordingly, Misc favors us with his demographic analysis of Asian America. As T.H. Lien points out, though, Misc’s analysis falls flat on its face.
First, Misc tries to prejudice the case by equating sufficiently extensive contact with living in “ethnic ghettoes.” Accordingly, only those AFs who live in ethnic ghettoes count. However, it is obvious to everyone but Misc that most AFs who do not live in ethnic ghettoes but who have lots of contact with non-Asians still have extensive contact with AMs, contact certainly sufficient to shape their perceptions of AMs.
Second, as T.H. Lien mentions, Misc’s county-wide analysis is fatally flawed. On the one hand, half of all AAs live in about a dozen counties in the U.S. More importantly, the other half of AAs do not live isolated from contact with AAs. Within the counties where the other half lives, there is a great deal of clustering within particular towns and within particular neighborhoods.
Cook County, Illinois, for example, has a mere 5% Asian population, and someone who doesn’t think further about it might conclude that those AAs must lack contact with other AAs. However, Cook County is Chicagoland, the city of Chicago and it’s immediate suburbs. Does anyone really think that very many of the AAs of Cook County lack contact with other AAs? Well, at least one person here does, and if anyone else is similarly befuddled by demographic statistics he can visit websites that will do some of the thinking for him. The fact of the matter is that the great majority of AFs in the U.S. grow up having extensive contact with AMs.
I enjoy the time I spend conversing with the folks at Goldsea, but I do appreciate Misc’s suggestion that an Asian wife might press me to put my time to other uses. However, as easy-going a guy as I am, the Asian women I’ve been involved with have been decidedly demure and submissive, every bit as demure and submissive as the Caucasian women I’ve known. I figure it’s a female thing. Anyway, if I have to go around this circle any more with Misc I’m going to start charging him tuition.
Roger
Thursday, January 24, 2002 at 10:04:07 (PST)
Miscegenation is great:
County-wide analyses fall flat on their face in the Bay Area because of gross disparaties between census tracts (i.e., plenty of neighborhoods with 90% asians, especially in new south bay suburbs, and plenty more with very few). I don't think anyone here is gonna go through census-tract level data to figure out how much proportion of Asians live in neighborhoods surrounded mostly by other Asians, unless one of you all can pull a bunch of free time and a government grant outta the seat of your pants. Besides, many Asians, even those in areas with few Asians overall, will still have some contact with other Asians through good old community institutions (mostly churches and language schools).
However, there's no disputing the influence of the media ...
T.H. Lien
Wednesday, January 23, 2002 at 00:53:49 (PST)
"I leave it to readers whether my arguments or those of "Roger" are more persuasive."
you realize both sides are preaching to the choir, of course. even in MLK civil rights times there were people who didn't believe the nation has a "race" problem and most people today just pretend these issues don't exist, even minorities like some AF and AM.
villageidiot
Tuesday, January 22, 2002 at 14:21:29 (PST)
To Miscegenation Is Great: your posts regarding "Roger" are so completely accurate, thoughtful, and intelligent, especially compared to his posts, that he should be cringing at the stupidity that he presents. His pattern of denial and his stubborn insistence on trying to get people to see his deranged "logic", coupled with his motivation to come to an AA site to try to denigrate us, exposes him for the obsessed racist that he is. His writing looks all the world like other posters who have come here with the same intentions, like; Catullus, Observer, EL, Okey Bokey. Cudos for so thoroughly shooting his ass full of holes.
Naki
Tuesday, January 22, 2002 at 12:20:05 (PST)
Miscegenation is Great:
I couldn't have put it any better myself. About the only caveat I would add is that the Media Sword does cut both ways when you deal with movies aimed at a particular audience. For example, in many movies starring Wesley Snipes and Denzel Washington (action movies primarily), the "enemy" is a Blonde-haired blue-eyed White male. This enemy gets his clock cleaned and then Denzel or Wesley gets the girl, regardless of her ethnicity.
On the one hand, there should be more movies with the same resolution aimed at Asian American audiences. On the other hand, continually portraying ethnic groups as "enemies" doesn't do a whole lot to improve their perceptions of eachother either.
If only we could reach a point that enemies are seen as enemies and friends are seen as friends because of the content of their character instead of the color of their skin, their nation of ancestry or the religion they practice.
I Have A Dream
Tuesday, January 22, 2002 at 12:05:25 (PST)
ABC male,
She could be dating for your green card.
;)
But it's cool in Taiwan. Pick up a few language exchange partner is also cool too.
AC dropout
Tuesday, January 22, 2002 at 11:20:04 (PST)
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