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ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:38:55 AM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage is't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
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WHAT YOU SAY
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Media Image has a lot of impact...Wanna to do a little experiment? Think of the word Arab...What image comes to mind??? Someone who is angry, abusive, ugly, sweaty, and down right evil are fairly common images in this country. Yet I have met hundreds of charming, dashing, sophisticated and drop dead good looking Arabs in my day and surprisingly I have met only a few that look anything like what you see in the movies. I cannot recall a single occurance in recent media that shows a good looking Arab or even a good Arab. Does this media image (by that I also mean news coverage along with its editorialism) have an effect on what you are conditioned to think and imagine when confronted with the word?? Well duh....
Morris
Saturday, March 02, 2002 at 15:41:50 (PST)
"Would you like to know why white guy's are so aggressive towards asian girls?? It's because they THINK THEY'RE EASY!!!"
White guys think AFs are easy because AMs do not provide much competition in terms of asking girls out frequently. Look at Latinos and blacks, they are even more aggresssive when hitting on girls. Most AMs are not like that. It has to do with our culture.
"guess why most asian guy's are shy? wouldn't you be if people like you are only shown as unattractive?????"
I am not shy, I know other AMs are not shy. So if TV shows AMs being studly, you would magically transform yourself from this shy person to an outgoing person? Please......
"I'd like to date a white girl but guess what? How do I know any girl outside my race is even attracted to me when not only is it never shown in the media, but what is shown is every single unattractive stereotype you can have of a guy."
No one knows if a girl is interested in you until you go talk to the girl. You already assume that she does not like you because what is shown by the media?? sounds like you have really low self confidence.
NHB
Saturday, March 02, 2002 at 11:24:00 (PST)
What has perpetuated this trend stems from a long history of injustice in America. The notion of Asian American maleness has been subject to much scrutiny which has foundations in the dichotomy of white superiority and Asian subordination. To keep the labor force as subordinate, laws and regulation were placed to control the infulx and assimilation of Asian labor immigrants.
The Chinese Exlclusion Acts of 1882 barred Chinese immigrants from entering the US but the series of racism continues. Asian women were barred from entering the US because many were seen as prostitutes (Page Law of 1875). This lack of women in mostly "bachelor" communities constructed Asian men as being unable to attract women and therefore unmasculine. The fact remains that these trends were not result of coincidence but come from a long history of dominion over certain cultures and races.
Of course the stereotype is broken on occasion and we see Asian men marrying white women. But as a California resident, a state that is home to many Asian Americans, I have seen the trend as "Asian women dating/marrying white male." Walk around any major city in a place where people spend leisure time and I will bet that you will see more Asian women with white men than Asian men with white women. The reason: like many Amy Tan novels and Hollywood movies, white men are seen as the rescuers; saving these helpless women from the asuxual and often domineering Asian man.
To "Gender Divide varies among the Asian groups" I say, it is NOT fair to say that AA men are focused on money and that is why AA women outmarry. How can anyone say that??? Such negative stereotypes perpetuate the problem. If you want to see why this trend occurs, you must examine the history and origins of AA male social construction. To simply place looks as the issue is not enough. I agree that good looks and a good personality will win you that dream girl/guy, but if your dream girl/guy has pre-concieved notions of you and your racial make-up, wouldn't you care? You may not, but I would.
This is simply not an issue of color-blindness and one's willingness to embrace a color-blind attitude. We must recognize that the interracial dating trend is not just a result of media or personal taste but from society in general and history.
Suggested reading: Asian American women and Men by Professor Yen Le Espiritu.
http://www.bestwebbuys.com/books/compare/isbn/0803972555
AA lost in SD
Saturday, March 02, 2002 at 11:04:37 (PST)
Chinese Exclusion Act,
White girls do or don't date Asian guys because the media portrays it as acceptable or not. Forget the media. Who really cares anyway. Sure, there are some people who prefer not to date outside their race, but that's in any race. If you want to date a white girl, then do it. Don't let insecurity stop you, because you only live once and there are plenty of nice white girls who would love to meet a nice guy who just might happen to be Asian. Be nice to them and show them you are interested, and you'll probably be surprised at how open some of the girls are to dating outside their race. We are not elusive nor are we such a mystery. We are just human. Try being friends with them first if you like. I actually prefer it that way myself. You would be surprised at the number of white females who aren't opposed to dating Asian guys, but just never thought of them as an option. Good luck!
Twinkie
Saturday, March 02, 2002 at 01:43:34 (PST)
"another thing, guess why most asian guy's are shy? WOULDN'T YOU BE IF PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE ONLY SHOWN AS UNATTRACTIVE????? I'd like to date a white girl but guess what? How do I know any girl outside my race is even attracted to me when not only is it never shown in the media, but what is shown is every single unattractive stereotype you can have of a guy. ..."
Does this person realize how pathetic he is by saying stuff like this? Sure the media plays a role, but he thinks about how media shows asian guys everytime he tries to work up the courage to ask a white girl out?????? To know if a girl is attracted you, you have to initiate the conversation. Anyone else think this kind of statements just nauseatingly embrassing?
I can't imagine any girls want to go out with this guy.
TLC
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 21:54:20 (PST)
"Many AA Men are more focused with $$$ and career advancement/upward mobility than with love. White Men in general are much more complacent, and for them to be the majority in the US, they reap the many benefits as well. Therefore, they are less busy with the many "the pain in the #ss" difficulties in life and have the time to learn to socialize and foster all kinds of relationships.
This is the general basis for the imblance."
There is some truth in this. AMs are too focused on career, money to the point they are not developing good social skills, If this is true, looks like they got their priority all wrong. What is the point of living in a big house, driving an expensive car, yet can't find a woman to share one's life with? Don't you think ability to socialize and foster all kinds of relation is more imporatnt than moeny and career. Besides, without social skills, how successufl are you going to be in career and money???
"If so, then no guy in Asia will be asking a girl out for a date!"
In asian culture, dating is a much more serious matter. An asian guy does not ask a girl as lightly as white guy would. Don't you agree?
AA
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 21:34:23 (PST)
"Chinese Exlcusion Act" said:
"and another thing, guess why most asian guy's are shy? wouldn't you be if people like you are only shown as unattractive????? I'd like to date a white girl but guess what? How do I know any girl outside my race is even attracted to me when not only is it never shown in the media, but what is shown is every single unattractive stereotype you can have of a guy."
How would you know any girl outside your race is even attracted to you if you don't chat her up and ask her out. What is this BS? You are just looking for excuses for your own inability to ask a girl out. WTF!
Instead of blaming the media, how about this:
We come from a more conservative culture where dating is taken more seriously than those in America. Thus, an AF is more likely to accept a date, an AM is less like to offer a date. So to the white people, AFs are easy, AMs are shy.
In HK media, you see good looking AMs with AFs all the time, yet, if you go to areas with lots of white expats, you will see plenty of WMs with AFs. AMs in Hong Kong are still very shy in asking girls out comparing to WMs. The same situation in Taiwan, Singapore, Japan and now China.
AA
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 21:29:45 (PST)
AC Dropout:
"Unlike some of my hapa family members growing up in Canada and mainland USA, they are just not well adjusted at all at their age."
Yeah, most of the kids I meet in that situation are trying to assimilate to Asian-American sub"culture" and are being fed some "best of both worlds" BS lines by their parents.
be:
"a person CAN possess a DESIRE to understand their heritage, w/o speaking the language or functioning in the culture. we should give praise to them, as well."
Well then, are they actually pursuing that desire? I think that once you have reached the age of a university student, you have to start taking responsibility for whatever identity you want to put forth ... you can no longer blame a lack of knowledge or adjustment on your parents, or the way you are brought up, or whatever nonsense. Being an adult means trying to translate your dreams and desires into REALITY. Learning a new language and learning to function in a new culture is achievable if you are young and willing to learn. But if you assume you don't need to learn because you're already good enough, already "beautiful" and deserve to be "celebrated" or whatnot, then that process gets a lot harder.
Ellery:
Though modern pop psychology might like to point to "low self esteem" as the root of every possible social maladjustment, most people who mercilessly tease and insult others tend to have an inflated opinion of themselves - artificially HIGH self-esteem. In contrast, low self-esteem doesn't tend to lead to many social pathologies which are directly harmful to others, but instead to ones' self. And most monoracial couples either just ended up that way without thinking because it was the natural thing to do, or made a conscious choice to seek out someone of their own ethnicity. Obviously AA who date interracially, either men or women, didn't find this natural, and also never made this conscious choice to seek out someone of their own ethnicity. So why does this happen more often with women than men?
Also, until I went to high school, every stereotype I ever heard about black people, Chinese, Filipinos, Malaysians, etc., came from my Asian mother. Based on my observations, I tend to doubt my situation was the exception.
T.H. Lien
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 21:19:17 (PST)
AA
"AMs are not very aggressive on average. We come from a conservative culture. AFs are more likely to accept an offer of dating. AMs are less likely to ask a female for dating. This is the primary cause of interracial imbalance. Until AMs become more aggressive, nothing is going to change."
AMs will not admit to not being very aggressive. That in itself would be admitting to a certain level of passivity on their part, something they can't acknowledge because of the "passive" stereotype. By blaming the imbalance solely on the media, AFs, etc., they absolve themselves of any and all responsbility.
Another reason: Dating is not scientific. AMs cannot find dating advice and answers from computer programs, mathematical analysis, and engineering. Just kidding.
ToHellandBack
Contact with other Asians becomes less and less as people leave high school and college assuming they've attended schools with a large Asian student population. Upon entering the work force, again depending upon which field, contact with other Asian males or females becomes less frequent while contact with whites increase significantly. Working usually means working 8 to 9hrs/day and meeting people different from their own race. New friends and contacts increases the chances of a romantic involvement with whites. More interaction = more chance of interracial dating.
Sam Sung
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 20:35:34 (PST)
You guys need to stop attacking hannybunbun. She's one of the ONLY intelligent writers on this forum.
And TH Lien, why are u SO damn annoying?? On every damn forum.
I dont have time to elaborate
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 19:39:53 (PST)
hannybunbun,
You definitey have a lot of courage, more than I have when it comes to iconoclastic behavior.
A Jew for Jesus christian hooked up with a catholic husband. My word, I would have paid money to listen to your conversation with the Father during that marriage consuling Catholic get before marriage.
My mother is a devote Christain and my grandparents were I guess traditional Chinese who were baptized at some point. When they past away I remember my mother being so adament that they went to heaven. The rest of the family in her generation just chuckled and stated that they were just a bunch of souless bastards, because they never been in a Church since they left HK.
"making month" after pregancy. Most women just sit at home for a month and drink chicken soup. That hair washing thing was probably a precaution against something back then. But modern lifestyle probably counters whatever it was. But I agree it'a mostly just BS now and women could probably recover from labor in about 2 weeks, with modern medicine.
AC Dropout
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 15:45:48 (PST)
Gender Divide varies among the Asian groups,
"hear many of them say that Koreans, Japanese and Filipinos are polite towards them but the Chinese are ALWAYS an exception."
Well that's easy to explain. Most the 3 asian groups have USA as allies. So even though there are some incident of sexual abuse with native girls. The overall protection they get and finacial assistance for hosting the foriegn bases off set any total non respect for the USA.
A majority of Chinese immigrant are here in USA looking for a better opportunity. But they do not have the benefit of having USA as an allie. So of course there is no overt love.
AC Dropout
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 14:36:22 (PST)
Chinese Exclusion Act:
Let's examine your comments carefully to determine its validity.
"THE MEDIA IS TO BLAME!!!!!"
Who influences an individual's decisions more? the people they encounter and interact with in everyday life...or the entertainment industry that portrays fairytale lives? I believe the majority would choose the first one...which means, our views are shaped from our life experiences..and we understand that hollywood is purely entertainment.
"Would you like to know why white guy's are so aggressive towards asian girls?? It's because they THINK THEY'RE EASY!!"
Asian females are perceived by many to be submissive, not easy. White guys are aggressive TO ALL, not just AF. Your problems being here..you dont even know your own kind.
"The reality is that white guys think their god's gift to asian women because their fellow asian men can't "please" them...and another thing, guess why most asian guy's are shy? wouldn't you be if people like you are only shown as unattractive?????"
I'm not a therapist..but i firmly believe you lack self-confidence. Sounds like you cant please girls, you're shy, and others think you're unattractive. Its not fair to blame this on the media b/c its evident where the real problem is.
"How do I know any girl outside my race is even attracted to me when not only is it never shown in the media, but what is shown is every single unattractive stereotype you can have of a guy"
Just to name a few...Russel Wong, Rick Yune, Chow Yun Fat, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Jason Lee, Michael Chang..are these asian guys not physically attractive? Sounds like your vision is very poor as well...you need to get your eyes examined, son.
"So AA, don't give me that bull****, the media already determines how we act whether you realize it or not."
I know the truth hurts...but i believe i speak for many by saying..this is a problem ONLY YOU possess.
Good Luck..and i hope you grow from this self-evaluation.
be
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 12:13:29 (PST)
Hannybunbun and all:
"I believe you should always search out things for yourself, while keeping a respectful eye on your family culture."
i agree with you and commend you for following your mind and heart, while acknowledging your heritages. Some people lack the capability to do this...a prime example is "T.H. Lien", who stated, "Most mixed-race kids simply aren't Asian, can't survive in an Asian culture, can't make it in that world." I feel very sorry for T.H. Lien who is prisoner of his/her own narrow-mindedness. If this type of person were to be a leader, you can expect destruction....b/c this type views the glass not half full nor half empty, but intentionally shattered into sharp pieces to hurt others.
Anyone who has their head screwed on right..would know that we, as human beings regardless of our race, are not hopeless beings. we shape our destiny..not mother nature!
be
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 11:25:44 (PST)
AM's
if you are hankering for a chick who comes from the same ethnic background as you, speaks the same language as you and has the same values as you....
go to asia....plenty of asian women there.
if you want to live in a multicultural democracy stop whining about AF's.
Max da cat
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 10:49:53 (PST)
Chinese Exclusion Act
i feel sorry that you would like to date a white girl but can't find any appropriate media role models to follow....you'll be waiting a long time as well coz it's Hollywood not a freakin' charity
i think you're looking for scapegoats and the media is always a convenient one.
get on with life
Max da cat
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 10:45:57 (PST)
Ellery,
you are spot on...accusations by AM's that AF's who date outside their ethnic group are insecure in their ethnic identity reek of sour grapes.
if anything it demonstrates the opposite; that they are comfortable enough to mix it up.
my guess is that it is because women in general are better at coping with change so AF's don't find it too hard to step outside an assumed comfort zone.
also could the AM who privately salivate about WF do something about it and free up some asian tail for us white boys who are that way inclined!
Max da cat
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 10:36:56 (PST)
hannybunbun,
Who told you I experimented with Acid. I will use the Bill Clinton line as self defense "I did not know what I was doing and did not administer the tab properly." So I did not get a high.
But in any event, it would be difficult to believe that you could pass down the Jewish culture to your next generation at this point. So like some of the posters on this board state that it will neither be a Chinese or Jewish culture the next generation get. It will be a Hapa culture that no one but the Hapa can relate to.
AC Dropout
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 09:54:39 (PST)
"from your comments, you come off as a 'white-american-hater'."
I am not a white American hater...though I do hate people who wave confederate flag on my face...and insist that they study about traitors such as Jefferson Davis and murderers such as Nathaniel Bedford Forrest and want me to consider them heroes. That is what high school history books teach children in the south.
"fighting back with that "eye for an eye" mindset is only going to fuel the flame. you should know this, unless you're living in denial land."
It is whites who are in denial. I am not the one fueling the flames. But white Americans...many here in the south like to quote the Bible. I can turn the Bible on them and say that actions have consequences. Everyone asks me why WTC (September 11 happened). You may have heard of Amadou Dialo. His killers walked the streets. At WTC the entire polic precinct to which these killers belonged got wiped out...which tells us somebody makes them pay. In India, in the state of Orissa, Australian missionaries were burnt alive in a village. Eight months later the cyclone (hurricane Category 5) wiped the entire village and the murderers off the face of the earth. In Gujarat, India, they used to kill anyone who looked white, mistaking them for a missionary...there was an earthquake which wiped them out and now the citizens are killing each other. Some actions may not have violent endings although these actions were violent...they used to lynch blacks and hispanics in Texas not long ago, now the state is becoming minority white and the whites will loose power pretty soon.
Not wanting to date outside the race is itself not racist...but race conscious. 75% of white Americans and 50% of Asian Americans are race conscious. However, race itself is an artificial construct invented by white Americans. Race does not hold water in Europe...Germans marry Germans and French marry French 75% of the time. The situation is similar in Asia. Japanese marry the Japanese and Koreans marry Koreans.
Asian American Male
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 09:50:50 (PST)
Ellery,
I really think you should leave those .0001% of the female human population with super model features out of the equation... For pete sake any sexually active male of any race would endure name calling to have an opportunity to hold hands with those .0001% of the female population.
But I see your point about knowing the individual.
I have seen AM and AF who suffer from esteem issue involved in inter-racial relationship. Not all involved in IR have self image issue. But I have been around enough of them to know that they are truly hurting when people they precieve as authoritive Asian call them "sellout," "bananna," "cultureless." For the mere fact of not speaking the language, knowledge on asian history, or even westernized behavior. It will be a pretty strong individual that will be able to shield their next generation from the hatred they've endured from their own kind.
AC Dropout
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 09:46:16 (PST)
Hi again AC Dropout,
First let me say I enjoy your posts and think conversation is vital to understanding each other as people and cultures. But discriminating immigration laws huh? I am half Dutch and would welcome you to look at the Netherlands immigration laws. Now that is strict. In fact, look at most other countries BESIDES the United States and you will see very strict pre-requisites you must meet before even being considered to visit let alone LIVE there.In many countries there is no such thing as illegal immigrants, because they have no chance to enter the country period, even illegally. No country is perfect, but if you read Chinese history, that in itself shows how MANY countries and races can be equally cruel and unfair. The "re-education" labor camps of China were an example of cruelty in a country. I guess if we never tried to move past our countries evils and mistakes, then we would all hate each other and keep bringing up old wrongs that breed more hate. Because history is full of wars and misdeeds. I agree there are prejudices. But I think there are better ways to get past them. Education and sharing your culture is one of them. I take Cantonese language lessons and I thankfully see more Asian people that are proud and happy that I want to share and learn about their culture, then those who don't. That makes me happy and encouraged and makes me want to learn even more about it. And I also share my culture with my Asian friends.
To T.H.: I agree to a point about what you are saying about culture. Our child will be taught both languages and my husband is very involved with his culture,as I am my own. My sister-in-law is ABC, but she cannot read Chinese. Yet she takes an interest in the customs, eats traditional foods, and is teaching her daughter both English and Chinese. Because she cannot read Chinese, does that mean she is less Asian? Where is the line drawn? Who decides?
And to Asian American Male. I am practically your neighbor, living in virginia Suburb of DC also. I am sorry you encountered such hate from whites, but not all people can be grouped into one lump of hate. I also know this to be a very large area of Asian population. There is Eden Center, Chinatown in DC and my niece goes to Chinese school every Sunday in Annandale. The opportunities here with such a large area of Asians and so many Asian influences, businesses and social outlets, is boundless to teach something about yourself and culture to people of other races. It won't change everyones mind, but it is better than sitting back and blindly hating.
Hannybunbun
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 09:43:17 (PST)
"First off when a Asian and a White marry, the offspring becomes both Asian and White."
Not based on the one-drop rule. You can only be white if you are a "pure" white. In the south, the mixture would still be considered Asian.
"Requires some command of language and customs before you can claim such an identity without everyone politely smiling, nodding, and laughing once you leave the room."
Also true of "pure" Asian Americans who do not speak any Asian language!
"Most mixed-race kids simply aren't Asian, can't survive in an Asian culture, can't make it in that world."
Not true. They call them burgers in South East Asia and they do very well. The ex-Supreme Court Chief Justice of Singapore, Mr. Justice Romedios is a burger.
Asian American Male
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 09:36:47 (PST)
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