The AA Gender Divide: Is It Real? | Asian American Issues

IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated )

sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
     That's the perception of many AA men.
     On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
     Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage is't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
     Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
be:
Having a desire is different from pursuing a desire. Right now I desire a good career. A good career is certainly a praiseworthy thing. However, right I'm sitting at a computer, doing nothing about actually getting a good career. Is this praiseworthy? Is this just as praiseworthy as going out and driving around to 4 interviews a day, getting a job, and spending 10-12 hours a day doing it well? Desire is different than pursuit or acquisition of a goal.

Also, as for me "hating on" bi-racial people: I've heard many bi-racial people complain about the discrimination they face from other Asians who question them when they assert an Asian identity. Well, right now I am studying overseas in an Asian country. There are plenty of kids here who do fine being treated just like everyone else around them, some are biracial, some are monoracial. A few of them aren't even Asian. They don't need special treatment to stay afloat in the university and society at large - they are functional in Asian culture, and it is understandable for any one of them to assert that they are Asian, just as we should not deny someone living in the US and proud of it, whether an English-speaker or a person struggling to learn the English language so that he can communicate with Americans of all ethnicities and backgrounds, and not just his own, the right to call himself an American if he should choose.

There are others, again, mono-racial, bi-racial, or non-Asian who constantly complain about the discrimination they face on the basis of their nationality or ethnicity, and wonder why they're not being treated the same as everyone else, why the local students are reluctant to interact with them, etc. But every cashier in every convenience store has tried to treat these kids the same way as everyone else, and gotten a "Huh?" or "What did you say?" in response. If they are presently struggling to learn the language of this country, all I can say to them is yeah, it's a bitch, but stick with it and soon these kinds of problems will start to fade away. But if they are not advantage of the wide range of opportunities to learn the language here, but instead always segregating themselves, yet still complain that Asian people don't accept them, it is at best disingenuous and at worst, outright offensive.
T.H. Lien
OnceADayForFourWeeks@yahoo.com    Monday, March 04, 2002 at 23:48:41 (PST)

more and more arrogant, be:
Answer the following questions here if you feel like it. Accuse me of having low class friends, being an old lady impersonating a college student, possessing deficient mental skills, etc. on my e-mail.

1) What defines being Asian? List some minimum conditions, or if you don't think there are any, say so (and then suddenly we got 6.9 billion Asians on the planet).

2) Being a member of a culture implies that you can generally function among other people of that same culture without assistance and without causing great friction in everyday situations. If one does not possess those skills, how should one go about acquiring them?

3) Why do/did people (e.g. Asians at present, Italians in the 40s and 50s, ) worry that their culture is being lost through outmarriage? What specifically do they worry is being lost?
T.H. Lien
OnceADayForFourWeeks@yahoo.com Monday, March 04, 2002 at 23:23:40 (PST)

be,

I think you are misinterpreting the post. I think the males here mean easy as in "they'll probably will go out on a date with me" vs. "they'll probably get in the sac with me.".

White males are portrayed in a much better light in the media where they date attractive asian females. Over the years this has subtley promoted the idea that it asian females were brought to america to be with white males.

Meanwhile asian males are largely ignored or villainized. Famous actor Marlon Brando himself back in the late 60's was heavily criticized for saying the the Jewish controlled media has presented the "buck toothed chink", "fat lipped nigger", "the untrsutworthy wap" (italian), but never "the kike" (insulting synonym for jew). This tells you that while the media has grown kinder to blacks and various white ethinicities -- it has not made the same kindly progress towards asians.

While you may dismiss the media's influence (I used to think that way too), I just want you to keep an open mind. The effect of the media is a very subtle but also very powerful and EXISTENT presence in controlling how you think. THink about all the things you have learned -- I bet most of it learned through the media. The media presents facts and images into our minds and slowly reinforces them over time.

However I also agree with you that people can think for themselves which is often people like to believe what they hear. So when confronted, with facts that they don't like (ex. washington and jefferson were slave owners, american forefathers commited genocide, the US has opted out of the the nuclear arms treaty, etc.) they will either ignore it, dismiss it as unimportant, or somehow justify it.

I really think you are trying to dismiss it as something unimportant. Although I don't blame you because (assuming you are an AF) it is in your best interests. As you are an AF, the media attention has given you more spotlight, enlargened your dating pool, and opened up for job opportunities because the majority of people will find you interesting and not a threat.

I think this is fine, but as AMs we need to complain. We need the same opportunities as you and this whole situation is dividing us. Us shutting up and not blaming the media will only make our situation worse. All we ask is that AFs support us a little in our plight (even though you may be afraid some white folks may not like that) and I am sure we will support you. We don't have to date or get married, but we should support each otehr because we still have a long way to go in gaining influence in big business, politics, and civil rights. Sometimes I think that we are not 4% of the population but rather 2%.
Multiplication is better than division
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 21:41:19 (PST)

Hey be,
where do i get this stuff? I GET IT FROM ACTUAL ASIAN ACTIVIST STUFF. Since you are sooo asian you must have read the issue of monolid magazine entitled, "I am not your fetish." Would you like to hear what one white boy from standford has to say? "If I were Joe Namath, I could get all the goodlooking blong cheerleaders...but since i'm an average looking white guy I can get all the hot Asian women" This mentality, though not EVERY white guy has it but guess what? A lot do. And more and more are. I'm sure I know what all the whiteboys taking japanese and chinese classes are thinking. Another thing, I'm not making accusations of my OWN KIND. I'm putting actual fact from the mentalitys of some white boy's who think you are like this. I bet you are one of those asian girl's that think it's somehow racist for a asian guy and asian girl to be together. Cause I know the media does. Another thing. About my last post. It was against someone saying that the media is not to blame. I never said it was THE ONLY CAUSE. Of course their will be a dating discrepency when u look at how this works out.....AF/WM = accepted..to the point where it ain't even considered interracial....AM/WF = not only not accepted, but they make it seem like it don't exist. SO, to all the white boy's in this site..why are you here? Wait...I probably know the reason for that.
CHINESE EXCLUSION ACT
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 21:39:26 (PST)

A-man,

I totally agree i think all those "Asian Experts" should just shut the hell up cuz they don't have a clue
they are just as bad as the ones who likes to sterotype certain race
Kim S
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 20:55:10 (PST)

There is a gender divide, but I think it's lessening somewhat. We are seeing more positive images of Asian men in sports (Ichiro, Apolo Ohno) which in the long run will help.

In the music scene, the rap/heavy metal band Linkin Park won a Grammy. BTW, for those who aren't aware, two of the six bandmembers, lead singer Mike Shinoda (Japanese-American) and DJ Joseph Hahn (Korean-American) are of Asian descent. I think those guys are definitely getting some groupies.

The movie "The Fast and the Furious" was based on the Asian street racing scene in the West Coast. I will admit that Rick Yune was put in the wrong role as the motorcycle gang leader when he should have been in the role played by Vin Diesel.

The TV show "That 80's Show" has an AM in it and so far there isn't the real bad stereotyping that you see elsewhere.

Obviously, the media does play a role in the gender divide. But as long as Ichiro, Apolo Ohno, the band Linkin Park, and others get fair media representation, things will be better for us in the long run.

P.S: I will admit that some Asian males don't get out enough. When I mentioned that Linkin Park had two Asian-Americans to another Asian guy, he was surprised! Some of you guys need to look around a little bit. You'll be surprised what you'll find out.
Asian Male Who Understands
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 20:15:05 (PST)

"be" is obviously a WHITE BOY.

nice try, close but no cigar!!

BUSTED!!!!!
God of Asia
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 17:23:55 (PST)

To Anti-Confederate White Guy:

I respect your viewpoints, and I believe that much of the South is more progressive and openminded about race relations and atonement than the Northern states.

But there is a strong lingering myth about the "heroic" Confederacy and the chivalric military valor of the Army of Northern Virginia. While I acknowledge the bravery of all soldiers who fight and die for their nation and beliefs, I am unable to celebrate Southern military heroism because it was in defense of that horrid and offensive regime. And here in Virginia, we can't even honor a modern saint like Martin Luther King with his own holiday, (his memory must suffer the indignity of the "Jackson-King-Lee" holiday). And let us not forget the Jefferson Davis highway while we are at it. Or such noble institutions as the "Daughters of the Confederacy" who celebrate Southern heroism and valor but never seem to acknowledge its perverse mission (I wonder if the Germans have a "Daughters of National Socialism" organization that celebrates the brave Nazi soldiers and there glorious victories over the Belgians, Dutch, French, Poles and Russians but overlooks the Holocaust).

I don't mean to rant, and I think that most Southerners I've met (as opposed to Northern transplants like myself) have been amazingly kind, decent, and open minded people. It's the cult of Southern valor and chivalry that really astounds me.

Asian Yankee in Northern Virginia
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 16:05:03 (PST)

be,

Sounds all nice and good. But that is the problem. Mass media is a lot more pursuading and invasive than you are willing to give credit for.

If your a college student, who barely watches tv or go to the movie of course what you say make sense.

But in reality asians and non-asians a like are perpetually exposed to media.
Which influences us to believe beer has an expiration date and european cars are better. Both not true either.

If you look at your own assumption as why non-asian like AF, isn't that also media driven. Until the day when the common reason why non-asian like AF are no different than that of an Irish, German, Italian, or whatever girl next door. There is an issue.

I've dated white women. But at least I did at one time ask myself why was I attracted to these women. When I was growing up with Charlie Angel, Bionic Woman, and Wonder Woman (I got a thing for women that can kick booty) these were my archtype of an attractive girl.

But if you also believe that Asian American are the Brianiac race, that can out think the misrepresentation in mass media. Or better yet, out think the establish political infractrustion in the coorporate environment to rise above the glass ceiling and make a difference in media in the USA. Perhaps you should to get a little bit more work experience, and put a post in the glass ceiling section.

We are not talking about individuals behavior, but the behavior of an entire society USA society, including the asian within the USA society.
AC Dropout
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 15:55:25 (PST)

villiageidoit:

i commend you for being able to acknowledge your own ignorance. you chose the perfect name for yourself. unfortunately, most of us STILL can not comprehend the depth of your stupidity...for it is so severe.

you're in luck, mister...b/c im not the half the bigot you are. i like to give people opportunities to explain themselves, before i make accusations.

explain to me "village idoit", how am i bashing asian males? can you quote anything i've stated that leads you to presume this? and how do i make "everything seem hopeless?" does your resentment towards me has anything to do with the fact that I CAN speak positively about others, even non-asian??

next time you strike at me...present some REAL evidence! b/c right now, you just sound like a bitter idoit who is insecure about your own identity. a REAL MAN is strong enough to see his own weakness. and dont u dare take my words out of proportion...im ONLY refering to YOU here..not asian american males (im very fortunate, all the ones i've met are REAL MEN).

BTW, i never denied the media's false depiction of asian americans. what are you achieving by bashing your own people?! you stated, "why can't people live and let live?". sounds like you need to take your advice!!!
be
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 13:09:25 (PST)

it's not fiar,

I agree with what you are getting at. My point in bringing up Arabs was to illustrate what image the "word" Arab conjures up. The reality is that most Arabs in real life don't fit the stylized image of Arabs in media. But the negative image does have an effect on the over all identity of the people. The same applies to Asian males ( weak nerdy) and yes even Asian females ( slutty, submissive).
Morris
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 11:58:59 (PST)

"a lopsided state of affairs where 100% of English-speaking AF's exclusively date WM's!"

LOL! to this i say, good riddance!

hey vancouver canuck, what's stopping the AM from seeing other types of women then if 50% of the city is asian? there must be an availability of non-AF to date since the non-AM should equally be out of the potential pool, right? let me guess, there's the negative stereotype associated with the first-gen and the AM bashing by the sellouts and WM, right?

whomever said the term "sellout" is being racist, now how can somebody be racist only against half of the population?

"life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel"
--fortune cookie
villageidiot
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 11:04:06 (PST)

more and more arrogant by the minute,

Isn't your own arrogance to suggest that there shouldn't be any asian like us.

The problem we are addressing is that we felt the Hapa will create a new culture that neither the asian or the mainstream culture will fully understand. Nor does the Hapa culture support either asian or mainstream culture as a given.

I'm sorry to hear you identity is so fragile that a few opinions on Asian has caused you so much emotion.
AC Dropout
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 10:50:37 (PST)

Hi AC Dropout,
Okay I am taking a minute of my busy lunchtime to respond to this, although it needs alot more time than I actually have to explain. First I had to put my "no cultural half- evil 'Hapa' baby boy" down for his nap.. Funny how he is not any of those horrible things to me, or my white or Asian friends. He is a beautiful healthy boy that is loved and has two wonderful cultures to share in, and lots of great food and language to immerse himself in! But aside from that, let me continue.
I realize that you are bringing up "old" immigration laws keeping Asian females out for your point. However if you read my posting, my point was that no country in the past nor present has been deficient from prejudice, bigotry, nor unfairness. However, being in 2002 as we are, Asian females are very present in our society. If they, on an individual basis, prefer a white male for whatever reasonthen, that is beyond anyones control, as it is a personal decision on her part. And I agree that there are "fetishes" and sicknesses with all races. I once had a Asian man ask me out because I had blond hair and green eyes. He actually told me this, he said it was looked at as "desirable " where he came from. I do not know the legitimacy or truth of what he said, but it certainly did not make me want to date him, because he was only looking at a certain "fetish profile". I think that if an Asian woman knows that she is looked at as a fetish and becomes involved with a white male then it lies in her decision and she is responsible for being involved with him.
Yeah, I agree the media does not always present Asian men as the sexy, beautiful people as many are, but it did not influence me in real life in falling in love with my husband. I do not think that an intelligent person lets the media dictate who they date, just as I do not buy a car or eat at a particular restaurant just because "someone famous" said so on TV. Sorry I cannot explain more, but my Hapa baby is not falling asleep as planned for his nap. Maybe he is dreaming of evil white people. How frightening.
Hannybunbun
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 10:48:25 (PST)

Be, yes I agree some people who use the word, "sellout" losely are racists. However, NO more than the AF who hates her AM counterpart. The Connie Chung's, and Amy Tan's of the world have their racist sides as well. Whatever the case, both sides of the issue need to take a look in the mirror and evaluate what their saying. It seems all too often, that neither side is right.
Thanks,
Kevin Yang
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 10:33:41 (PST)

Be,
you cannot bake your cake and eat it too. Unfortunately, the door swings both ways in this society. You however, ONLY see it through one side. You mentioned that the stereotype of AF being "loose" does NOT pertain to every AF out there and to this I agree. However, neither do ANY of the positive traits you so thoughtfully pointed out. Your positive generalizations are in NO way better than the negative ones portrayed upon ANY race or group. Somehow, it seems that you wish to "take the good, and leave the bad" and in reality, that is hardly what happens to a general group of people. Be, you seem all too willing to label people "narrow minded", however it seems to me that you too ONLY look at one side of the issue.
Thanks,
Kevin Yang
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 10:26:20 (PST)

Vancouver Canuck

no need to accuse me of being white just because you don't like my point of view. An asian person can't have my view??

NHB
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 09:21:14 (PST)

"If u think about it, AA men have more of an advantage over White men when it comes to finding love. Much of the insecurities that AA men have about themselves are just darn petty. Here's why: 1) AA men overall are more successful than the average White dude. In fact, many of them are making more $$$ and are better educated. 2) Many AA men have a bi-cultural advantage. Being bi-cultural is hip and definately attractive. Do u think women find men to be attractive if they can speak another language fluently besides english? Of course! What about being able to cook those delicious Asian cuisines? I'm sure many women would also find that attractive.

I completely agree with those statements. AMs have many advantages over WMs, yet, as you said, AMs still suffer from insecurities. And that is the problem, lacking self confidence. Have you seen AM showing off his chinese while chatting up white girls, most AMs don't even do that while chatting up asian girls, they all try to show off their perfect english instead.
AA
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 09:19:27 (PST)

A-man said:

"The reality is most Asian guys don't have a problem when comes to dating AF or even WF just as most white or black guys...no race is better or worse and anybody who says otherwise is an idiot!"

Let's see. You see so many more AFs with WMs, and very few AMs with WFs. Assuming there are 50% females and 50% males in the asian american community around dating or marriage age, that means there must be a lot of AMs can't find a girlfriend or wife. Simple logic. Unless there are more AFs than AMs in asian american commuity. If most AMs don't have a problem when it comes to dating, interracial dating would not such a subject of debate here.
For all I know A-man is a big stud with no problems with getting girls, but that does not change the statistical fact that there are many AMs not getting girls.
AA
Monday, March 04, 2002 at 09:13:33 (PST)

NEWEST COMMENTS | EARLIER COMMENTS