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GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:38:55 AM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage is't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
This interactive article is closed to new input.
Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
Hi matt,
Where in the US do you live and how old are you? It seems to me that, having visited this board from time to time, that many people say that the amount of asian girls that date white guys exclusively (and have this mentality as such) differ from state to state or location to location. For instance, in state x where the concentration of asians is small compared to the white population, girls naturally date white guys just because they're the only ones there, and here the media portrays you more as desirable rather than asian men, blah blah. (i say state x because i have no clue because i'm chinese australian, and live in sydney) To me i guess these are pretty bad excuses for pretending to have some respect for the asian culture when ppl like this really have none, but i guess we have to allow for these people...because they do exist
I am pretty much surprised at your Asian dating experiences. I think perhaps you have, in the past, dated the wrong type of asian women! Because not all asian women are white-washed which I would suggest is the kind of asian woman you have been dating. I think after your experiences you will be able to tell between someone who's going out with you 'cause you're good-looking, or white, or someone who genuinely likes you. Because to me as an asian female, I can tell from a mile away which girls are genuine, which try hard for some tall, blonde, cute blue-eyed guy, which have self-identity problems with their race.
To tell you truthfully, I think any white male seeking out an asian female, or vice versa is wrong. Because for any interracial relationship, you must try twice as hard, or three times as hard as the normal average same-race couple to keep the relationship alive. This is a fact- there is so much you have to deal with, so much shit that you have to cop, from many people around you (family, general public, friends) that you have to ask yourself, why would you bother? There are examples of great IR relationships here on goldsea but they genuinely are the exception to the norm. I think, interracial relationships are great but only if you guys genuinely love each other. Unfortunately no asian female is going to care about this until they grow up and realise it's not all about the white ideal it's about loving your culture, respecting it and not NEEDING to have this desire to date white men to gain 'standing' in society
i've kind of rambled here, but it's late and i could have gone on but it's 2am, looking forward to reading any replies on this one day...
kate
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 06:59:15 (PST)
Yes, I would like to hear what AF have to say about Matt's comments. I am an AM, and I agree with what he had to say based on my experiences with AF, so this AA divide is definitely in the midst. Take it from Matt; asian guys are not the only ones talking or complaining about it. I've dated white and hispanic girls, but now very very open to going out with asian girls. But the attitudes that some of these asian girls have is downright insulting to me, (The ones that would give no time of day because I am ASIAN. Believe me, there are alot around.)that I might as well stick with my previous preferences. At least these girls didnt care what race I was.
You may think that I am a racist AM. I was former military, so I was exposed to alot of different people. When all of these people from all types of backgrounds got together for a party or whatever, it would be a fantastic time. What really struck me was while this particular group was very diverse, everyone was proud of their own unique background, and wouldnt be afraid to show it. The girls in our group were of different races, and ALL were beautiful.(Sorry, couldn't help myself)
My point to a specific, but fairly large group of girls is be openminded to people of all different races, but then again, dont turn your back on your own. I've only recently begun to feel this divide, so I am not that bitter yet.
But I can understand the asian guys who have always wanted to go out with asian girls feel really frustrated. I think its fair to say that AF/WM is far more accepted than AM/WF. What do you think? Do you have statistics that refute that claim? Ok thats it. Im getting more bitter by the minute. Bye
Oh
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 01:02:30 (PST)
Matt Richardson:
“Why are asian women so quick to stereotype asian men based on a few bad experiences, but NOT white men?”
Unfortunately, there are AF who ONLY dates non asians...just as there are AM who possess extreme hatred towards AF involved in interracial dating…and again, there are just as many people who discriminates against asians. These types of extremes are based on ignorance. Please do not assume all AF in IR relationships are like this, or you’ll be guilty of stereotyping too.
“Some say dating an asian man would be "like dating their brother".”
I’ve never heard of this before. However, I would assume they are describing AM as not being as care-free as WM. Your statement has a negative tone...but I perceive this as a compliment to AM...it describes a person who is caring and trustworthy...these traits are the basis of lasting relationships.
“3 of the asian women I've dated have had cosmetic surgery to make their eyes "look less asian"….Since this is an ethnic feature common to asians, is this not a form of self-hatred?”
No, this is not about ‘self-hate’, nor is it about looking ‘less asian’. This is about conforming to today’s standard of beauty...which happens to be ‘white’. White females are obsess with being thin...is this to say they prefer to look asian?
“Extending this argument further, if asian women don't find asian men as attractive as white men because of their asian features, then do they also feel that they are not as attractive as white women?”
You’ve raised a very interesting question. I’m curious to hear what other AF feel. I possess all the asian features, and yet I have been approached by many non-asian males. From my personal experiences, I feel it is the non-asian females who feel threaten in the presence of an AF b/c we draw more attention from guys...unintentionally and effortlessly.
“These same women claim that white men are "more masculine" and stronger, which is clearly stereotyping white males.”
Yes, that is a stereotype. Beauty in today’s society for male is a tall and muscular physique. If AM appearances conform to this male standard of beauty...AF would be just as attracted to them.
My theory for the growing rate of AF/WM relationships...1) AF wants to free themselves of the pressure they endured growing up in a family that overstress achievements and incapable of expressing affections. 2) AF may find WM more physically attractive b/c they are more likely to conform to the today’s standard of beauty. 3) WM are more prone to ask AF these days b/c of the media’s sexual portrayal of AF. 4) AM takes dating more seriously, therefore they are not as aggressive.
I also want to make one more important point. It seems like many on this forum are quick at placing judgements on AF involved in interracial dating. This type of attack reminds me of how people can be so reluctant when it comes to giving praises, yet prone to offering criticisms. I am appalled with the discrimination that has been repeatedly expressed on this forum. Why is it so hard to focus on the positives? Despite the increasing WM/AF relationships, there are still many AF who are willing to date AM...let’s try to accept this as the truth.
be
Tuesday, March 19, 2002 at 21:28:52 (PST)
AC-dropout,
why don't u just state how old u are? not that it matters if u are 20 or 40 but it drives some people mad when someone says they are under 29 or over 21 ...
Matt Richardson ,
dude I think u are reading too much into all this race stuff
who cares if some AF only date WM ..we are talking about a tiny minority of AF who only date WM anyways .It doesn't bother me simply because there are more than enough Asian women in the world who only likes to date Asian men..just like in Hong kong or japan u have girls there who likes leo or tom cruise but ask them who their ideal guy is 90% of them will say Aaron Kwok (hk singer ) and some other chinese film stars it comes a shock to some white guys but they think too much of themselves I have seen some WM in a club trying to hit on my friend who is a beautiful thai girl when she rejects him...he's like WTF? how could this be ? I am da white knight ..the king of the world the master race ..i guess it's time for the WM to face the fact they ain't all that !
A-man
Tuesday, March 19, 2002 at 20:57:25 (PST)
Multiplication:
“Mainstream America doesn't hear about these things because for some reason the press is indifferent. Asians too sadly are indifferent.”
You’re correct. Too many Asians are indifferent, and as a result the press is indifferent. The question still remains...what can we do to change this? Perhaps we should utilize our freedom of speech rights...not to each other, but to the appropriate authoritative source.
“While at its core, a lot of asian males are mad that they are not dating asian females, I think what really hurts is that asian females are not only ignoring or attacking asian males.”
I understand AM are angry...but you must remember, there are still a large percentage of AF who prefer to be with AM.
“I think the gender divide issue is the dumbest of all these problems percisely because it is something we bring unto ourselves.”
Agreed. The key phrase here is “we bring it unto ourselves”. It will help tremendously if asians can stop hating on one another.
AC Dropout:
Sorry about the delayed response. I’m sensing from your theories about ‘societal norms’, ‘mating templates’, and ‘mass media influence’…you feel nature greatly influences our development. Yes, I agree with you somewhat...i believe we do possess genes with BASIC blueprints, mass media does influence us TO SOME DEGREE, and past occurrences and legends does have a SMALL effect on our behaviors. I feel you are underestimating an individual’s ability to reason, and the powerful effect of personal experiences.
If your theory holds true, we can assume that we are nothing more than robots being controlled in a scientifically orchestrated society. Also, based on your theory...a child born of a criminal is hopeless b/c he is bound to be one due to his innate templates. At the same time, a child born of royalty is fit to be as such due to his genes. Does this not sound absurd to you? If its true that our lives and behaviors are irreversible because of these preconceived notions you believe we possess since birth, and the power of what you describe as ‘societal norms'...what incentives do we, as human beings, have to be better people?
be
Tuesday, March 19, 2002 at 19:41:08 (PST)
matt, amen. unlike some of the other AM who will probably respond to your post, let me say that your views are one of the most level-headed and sensible somebody has said in a long time on this "divide" board.
speaking for myself and myself only (just in case "roger" is reading) i don't have any problems at all with AF/WM pairings. if they're happy all the best of luck to them. but the point is to recognize that this trend exists and that the AF should just STOP with the hatred toward us AM. whether or not the AF you've dated got self-hatred or identity problems is left for the sociologists and psychiatrists, but nobody should be scapegoated for their own problems, and especially not their 50% counterparts.
again, whatever identity problems exist in the asian community, only time will reveal the answers. but it's simply unacceptable to lay the blame and scapegoating and say we AM are racist against AF like a certain someone who will not "be" mentioned. again, can somebody explain to me how can someone be racist against only 50% of the population?
villageidiot
Tuesday, March 19, 2002 at 18:56:54 (PST)
Your several dates with asian women are hardly representative of the millions and billions out there. I can only speak for myself, but im sure loadsa other AF's would agree that pretty much everythin u said is BS. You can't possible tell me all this is based on stats, and if it were and theres a load of AFs remainin exclusive for WMs, whats the big deal? why not personal preference? is it *that* hard to believe? You're talking as though asian females who date white guys have some kinda devious motive in dating them. Just because you're living in an area with asians and happen to end up with a guy of a different race doesnt make u racist 'against men of ur own ethnicity' infact its a load of s*** Ok, perhaps it might apply to some, but quit generalising and makin stupidass assumptions. I dont think itd be odd at all if i knew a white woman whose never dated a white guy. why should i? and if she hasn't does that make her racist too?
'Why are asian women so quick to stereotype asian men based on a few bad experiences, but not white men'. (?????!!!!!!) are you serious?! hell if a guy was white/asn/bk whatever, and he cheated on me etc..then he's a asswipe full stop.
Women in general have insecurites about their looks, however dont make it sound as though we AFs have severe self esteem issues. White women/bka women, whatever, have nose jobs, liposuction etc...whats ur point?? 'Self hatred' my ass, and im assumin this self hatred stems from the fact that we're asian???? pSh dont make me laugh.
Right next stupidass issue.....so y'reckon if an Asn girl doesnt like the look of her eyes, its only logical to think that since aalll asn guys have the saame small eyes, she'll find them unattractive??? somehow i dont see what logic has to do with dating. Say for eg, u hated your baldin head..um, that means youd..o ok bad eg, but u get my point?
Asian females, or those i know of, including myself, are nothing BUT proud about where theyre from and who they are. people have different preferences and u should try harder to distinguish this from the fact that if you've never dated someone ur own race, ur automatically assumed prejudice. You're right to not wnat to date someone whose only datin u cos ur white. But if you're gonna assume every asn woman whose askin u out is doing so cos of ur skin colour you're the one with issues, so dont bang on about us being stereotypical of our own race when you're bein stereotypical of us.
s.vietnamese female who thinks ppl should quit chattin out of their ASs
Tuesday, March 19, 2002 at 17:13:15 (PST)
Honestly, I think the "divide" should be backed up by hard data. White couples, or mixed couples probably have higher divorce rates. I can imagine that many Asian women marry outside the race because they don't want to be locked into a traditional Asian marriage with no way to get a divorce(without incurring the wrath of her family and community). It's not about what stereotypes us Asian women have about white, asian, black, or latino, or other men.
Common Sense
Tuesday, March 19, 2002 at 17:09:40 (PST)
Matt Richardson,
That sure is a mouthful, I'd like to add to your comment just briefly. I'm a 4th generation ABC male who practically defies all stereotypes of asians. Not that I wanted to become "white" like my friends think I do, but manly because I grew up in a predominatly white neigborhood and hung out with mixed friends. My jewish looking nose, dlb eyelid, non slanted eyes are somewhat odd but are very questionable by lots of girls.(I'm guessing) You'd think asian women would like asian men with caucasian features but they do not. Which leads to the arguement that 99.999999999 percent of them would rather date a cauasian over an asian male. I think asian men are very open, and truly believe love is not color blind. Particulary Asian American males do have to bend over backwards to prove their masculinity to our asian sisters and believe me is not very easy. I'd argue that asian women give us a lot of bull half the time and everyone wonders why AM's can't live in harmony. This is not true for everyone but this is how I interpret the problem. I think asian women have to come a long way to understand the problems that asian couples are having and need to see it from both sides. Hopefully some asian women will reply to this rather than just us males macking on them.
Gregory- the Saint
Tuesday, March 19, 2002 at 16:26:21 (PST)
Matt Richardson,
Very profound and insightful post that you wrote. I thought of many of the issues you were concerned with before.
Let me add a few of my own thoughts here.
So some asian women that you know thought Asian men are weak and effeminine. Fair enough. Did they ever think that Asian men come from the wombs of Asian women. Aren't or shouldn't Asian women (be) responsible for creating such "effeminine men"?
So love is colorblind according to some asian women. So would they consider dating black, hispanic or indian men?
Next time ask your asian love whether they would consider dating you if you were not white or were asian.
Ever since I came to this country 12 yrs ago (yes, I am a FOP), I never seriously dated an Asian American woman. My girlfriends were either White or Latin. First, I met a lot of Asian Americans. Most had an identity issue. It was so serious that it affected how they perceived and conducted themselves. Their negative attitude towards themselves put me off. Don't get me wrong. I think Asian women are physically beautiful. However, once they open their mouth and blast you with these negative vibes, I immediately excuse myself from them.
(Need to run. To be continued next time)
FOP (A HK Born Chinese)
Tuesday, March 19, 2002 at 12:30:07 (PST)
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