|
|
|
|
|
GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:38:55 AM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage is't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
This interactive article is closed to new input.
Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
CONTACT US
|
ADVERTISING INFO
© 1996-2013 Asian Media Group Inc
No part of the contents of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission.
|
|
|
|
WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
I just wanted to say that all you guys have some very insightful and intererting points. I also being Asian male,(Corean in fact) find these issues to be quite pertinent and also to be very intriguing in the deeper issues and
thinking of asians.
But only thing i wanted to add being that u guys have been very thorough and all, is that although we are talkin about asians as if they could all be generalized as such, there are very distinct cultural differences among the asian groups just like not all white or black ppl are the same. Somehow that should be addressed and where someone grew up matters, rural vs. more cosmopolitan?
Anyways, I hope that adds constructively, seeing that now i must return to study physics...heh
Munchies
Thursday, March 21, 2002 at 02:45:58 (PST)
I think AF are taking what they perceive as the easy way out. Everything will be all "white" if they marry white. White?
Ever wonder why AF dyes her hair different colours (none of them natural to us) and does all this other crap trying to fool people into thinking she's white, or atleast only 1/2 asian.
Be,
1) You mean the pressures of excelling and being able to take care of your family? Rather than being lazy and doing everything half assed (and divorcing when things get too tough)?
2) Today's standards of beauty are white, something AF will never be regardless of how many WM she dates.
3) WM asks AF out a lot because they know AF doesn't give AM a chance unless AM has $$$ (and lots of it).
4) AM more serious about family. I guess AF would rather be toy for WM.
Whoever,
Why would WF be threatened by AF over here. In the West, WF can get cream of the crop, regardless of race. AF gets leftovers.
Finally,
It's a good thing all the hottest AF are still overseas. Atleast they'll retain most of the asian values there.
P.S. All this is directed at AF in North America. I have no idea how AF behaves in Asia or Europe.
huu76
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 22:50:44 (PST)
This board is quite interesting..gets more so each time i visit it. I find this divide quite interesting and people are starting to make unbiased and objective viewpoints, including the white guys like this this guy Matt. Thats good to hear. And I've had White men friends tell me this too. But some asian women still attack this guy..probably out of their own insecurity. Let me tell you this from my own experience. I think AA women are BY FAR the most INSECURE group of people in the US and likely all the Western world. They blame AA men and condescend them with these stupid stereotypes. Those women should really look deeeep within themselves and realize that they THEMSELVES are the problem. I could totally understand where this dude Matt is coming from, because the AA girls that I'd dated before often reflect that inferority complex.
I'll tell you why AA men are actually less insecure although the odds are stacked against them. Because an AA man generally knows who he is and where he stands in life. In most cases there are no illusions in wanting be white or whatever. Some do exist though and they deserve the same light as the weak AA women.
Let me tell that I'm an AA man and I've actually never had issues dating period. Women are just into me, all my adult life. I am not jealous or want these AA women to date me, etc. Those women (you know who i'm referring to, if you are it) should not date period. Anyone who dates them (White or Asian or whatever) should question themselves. Ever wonder why you see many of these so-called sellout with dorky white guys? Well ok, maybe a quickie..but nothing beyond that. :-) Think about this for a second, regardless of your race, would you really want such a woman to be the mother of your child one day. That is the ultimate nightmare I think. My advice to AA men and men in general: find a good woman with values and self-esteem who'd stand by you, especially in hard times. I've known too many of these insecure AA women that I almost assume they are all such until proven otherwise. I do find that i'd forgotten the race issues when I was with a non-Asian girl. But i have dated some of these insecure AA women in the past, who constant badger the AA community or AA men. Let me tell you something. I just feel sorry for them and dont feel bad for dumping each and everyone of them. I would feel the same way if I was a white guy, hispanic guy whatever.
Well, i've dated all kinds of girls and AA women are the WORST by far (generalizing of course). If you're an AA woman and you're a want-to-be then why should anyone accept you (AA man or not), if you can't accept yourself. Think about that for a second. Think about how UNATTRACTIVE a trait that is.
My girlfriend is an Asian girl and we are very serious. I've had another very serious girlfriend who was also a beautiful Asian girl. Not all AA females are weak-minded.
Just want to remind those grossly insecure and yet narcissitic (sp) AA women out there: Some of us AA men criticize you NOT because we want you or are jeaulous, but more because you give us all a bad name and we feel sorry for you.
Strength in NOT only a virtue admirable in Men. Strength of character is important in a Woman as well. Unfortunately I find that many AA women lack such. That's just too bad.
You know what, as I grow older (30 almost), I realize that those insecure AA women generally are or become alone as they get older. I suppose they could still date those 50-60 year old lonely White guys. :)
If you're fit that description - "Get help!" Because you've only got one life to live. God-forbid you pass that sh..t to the next generation!
AA Male Perspective
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 21:37:32 (PST)
Having read many opinions on this issue and observed many interracial couples in Manhattan, I am compelled to put in my two cents - I simply can't make any judgement on interracial couples.
It is unhealthy to obsess over this issue because it is self-defeating process. The more one deems this to be a "problem," the more of a "problem" it becomes. The obession of this problem becomes an outlet for AM's insecurity. We attempt to find sources for this invisible pressure - lack of media representation, insecurity of WM, materialism/insecurity of AF. Any one sweeping generalization as to why there are Asian females marrying White males would not be enough and thus false. While there are predetermined factors that come into play when others (in this case, people of other race) meet you (in this case, AM) such as that persons past experiences with people of your race, you are still the most important contributing factor. You being your education, your character, your intelligence, your work.
There are many reasons as to why Asian females would like to date White males, not the least of these being money, status and power. From my own experience however, I observed the reasons that bring interracial couples together are: a need for companionship, shared likes/goals, and attraction. Perhaps the best way to approach this interracial phenomenon is not anger but an open attitude.
don't like labels but an AF nevertheless
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 21:23:14 (PST)
FOP:
Maybe you should rename yourself to be ‘village idoit 2’...or better yet, specify that FOP stands for ‘fresh off of pot’ b/c that’s exactly what you sound like.
Your comment: “Aren't or shouldn't Asian women (be) responsible for creating such "effeminine men"?”
Very good job...I love how you are insinuating that I am the blame for the AM being ‘effeminate men’. We should be proud to have you as one of the AM representation, right? From your comment above, it sounds as if you have just accepted that AM are ‘effeminate men’...how smart it is of you to denigrated yourself and AM. You know, you should AT LEAST read my post before make accusations about me...don’t you know you are only embarassing yourself?
Village Idoit:
Once again, we encounter. And once again, you’re pulling info out of your ass. Must I remind you AGAIN, your accusations are useless without evidences.
You said: “but it's simply unacceptable to lay the blame and scapegoating and say we AM are racist against AF like a certain someone who will not "be" mentioned.”
I will now reply: Who’s blaming who? You make me laugh...not very good about learning from mistakes, are you?
“can somebody explain to me how can someone be racist against only 50% of the population?”
AF do NOT despise AM...if this is still difficult for you to accept...then it is only you who suffer from this problem.
To all:
Some of you love to place blame on others. If BLAMING is what pleases you...let's do it the RIGHT way.
If AF should be blamed for the increasing AF/WM relationships, then we should also blame the WM for buying into the media’s sexual portrayal of AF. Obviously, the mass media should be blamed for false portrayal of asians. Some of you had mentioned the jews are controlling the media...we must blame them for creating a 'conspiracy' against us. The problem seems to persist, though...then we need to blame ourselves for NOT speaking out to make a difference in the media. But why are so many asians indifferent? The blame should be on the asian culture for being too reserved. This must be the reason AM are shy...let’s blame them for not asking AF out. But the shyness is only a problem b/c the WM are aggressive...therefore, we must blame the american culture for being outspoken and complacent. Should I continue?
Does this satisfy you now or is it too difficult to swallow b/c WE are all a part of the problem? But we’re blaming -- as you all love to do. NOW, are you surprised that no progress has been made?
be
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 21:09:30 (PST)
"From my personal experiences, I feel it is the non-asian females who feel threaten in the presence of an AF b/c we draw more attention from guys...unintentionally and effortlessly."
Speaking as a white girl, I have never come across this phenomenon, I think it is all in your head. Get over yourself. You do not draw more attention from guys. What do you think you are a supermodel?
hah
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 17:51:25 (PST)
One thing that many af's DON'T realise is many Black, Latino, White peeps do not respect those who do not respect their roots or where they came from and who can't identify with their own culture.
Whether you're Irish and celebrate St. Patricks Day or are proud of your city's parade celebrating Latino Heritage etc...
But af's I'm sure are the butt of all the nasty little jokes that they have inherited from their self inflicted stereotypes. Yes...that's right, I know personally fine ass minority women who can back me up. Not to mention the WHOLE REST OF US....
Mongol Horde
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 16:47:23 (PST)
A-man,
Don't be too hard on Matt. He a sensitive guy trying to come to terms with the fact that he has been objectified by all those AF, who have been using him cause he is white.
HAHAHA
AC Dropout
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 14:40:45 (PST)
i knew even before reading who the poster's name was that this is an AF doing the deed.
"1) AF wants to free themselves of the pressure they endured growing up"
so how are we AM any different?
"2) AF may find WM more physically attractive...3)...the media's sexual portrayal of AF.
i suggest a quick look at the word "shallow" and a tool of the media before going any further with this analysis.
and the most laughable of them all:
"4) AM takes dating more seriously, therefore they are not as aggressive."
OMG! what kind of twisted logic is this? i leave it to other AM to argue this one out.
villageidiot
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 14:10:48 (PST)
Matt Richardson,
Let's continue. I am delighted to see that a white male like you sees the gender divide among Asian Americans. This issue is not about AM's intolerance of AF's dating WM. Some people might dismiss that this is just their peronal preference or a minor problem. The problem at stake is much bigger. One should look across the board. Why there is such a divide among Asian Americans, not in any other ethnic groups, such as black, hispanic nor indian? Can we honestly tell ourselves that one particular ethnic group has a disproportionally higher outmarriage rate than the others is a normal phenomoneon? What would be the impact on our community? Sometimes, we need to question why AFs mostly date whites, not black nor hispanic, when they choose to date interracially. Is it merely a personal preference? I m concerned b/c if I have a daughter, she will be half asian half white, it will be a shame for her to see that her asian side has such a gender rivalry.
FOP
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 13:18:50 (PST)
"You're talking as though asian females who date white guys have some kinda devious motive in dating them. "
I dont know what planet or denial self help group you are in, but i have seen this Alot and so have my other Asian friends. I have lived in Europe, US and Australia, and i will will tell you a good amount of asian women have this vendetta against asian guys. So you are the one "talking off your ass vietnamese girl.
Truth hits everybody
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 13:06:15 (PST)
be,
"...No, this is not about ‘self-hate’, nor is it about looking ‘less asian’. This is about conforming to today’s standard of beauty...which happens to be ‘white’..."
I m a little puzzled by your comment on conforming to today's standard of beauty. Could you elaborate a little?
Ok, maybe self-hatred is too strong a word, but in order to conform to the standard of beauty which happens to be "white" as you pointed out, one needs to look "less asian". She/he can't look both white and asian at the same time.
"AF wants to free themselves of the pressure they endured growing up in a family that overstress achievements and incapable of expressing affections"
Some white families also overstress achievements & incapable of expressing affections as well. In fact, Anglos are notorious of being incapable of expressing emotions. If AF thinks this is a good reason to free themselves, they don't know how white children are brought up.
"AM takes dating more seriously, therefore they are not as aggressive."
Serious, but not aggressive. What a oxymoron! Shouldn't we all, be it white, black, or asian, take dating more seriously? Lots of women are fed up with game players nowadays.
"AF may find WM more physically attractive b/c they are more likely to conform to the today’s standard of beauty"
Don't you think it would make AF less physically attractive b/c, as you said, today's standard of beauty is white, not asian.
FOP
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 12:54:22 (PST)
"To tell you truthfully, I think any white male seeking out an asian female, or vice versa is wrong."
Value judgement...here in Asia we can say the same thing about Thai males wanting to marry Japanese females or vice versa.
"Because for any interracial relationship, you must try twice as hard, or three times as hard as the normal average same-race couple to keep the relationship alive. This is a fact- there is so much you have to deal with, so much shit that you have to cop, from many people around you (family, general public, friends) that you have to ask yourself, why would you bother? "
Depends on whose perspective you are looking at. In many Asian families ethnicity is more important than race. Thus, if a Korean marries a Japanese in Korea or Japan, the couple would become outcasts. This is also true of many recent immigrants to the US. On the other hand, if a Korean marries a white, the white American society may shun the interracial couple, but it would be more accepted in a Korean family than say, if the Korean married a Chinese. Eg. There were two Korean American sisters in the 1970s. One married a Japanese and her extended family cut off all communications with her. On the other hand, the other sister married a white and was not cut off from her extended family, but her husband was ostracized by his white family. His sister would not even talk to him..."How could you?" they ask. So, you deal with shit anyways, unless you mmarry your cousin in which case you may end up having retarded children and run up your medical bills.
"There are examples of great IR relationships here on goldsea but they genuinely are the exception to the norm."
The WM/AF couples are no longer exceptions. Just look at the Mail Order Bride business. In Singapore white women detest "their" men dating local "girls" and they would not date any "inferior" local men.
"Unfortunately no asian female is going to care about this until they grow up and realise it's not all about the white ideal it's about loving your culture, respecting it and not NEEDING to have this desire to date white men to gain 'standing' in society."
Depends on what you call your culture...there is no Asian culture..Thai culture is very different from Japanese culture although both of them are essentially Buddhist. Asians marrying whites may ostracize white men from white society.
Thai
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 12:48:28 (PST)
"It doesn't bother me simply because there are more than enough Asian women in the world who only likes to date Asian men.." A-Man
The key word is the world..but many AAM feel that since they are in America, they have a right to all Asian American Females...for one sole reason...white men can have them all! Furthermore, white women would rarely date outside their race, at least the majority of them will never date outside their race. "God's gift only to "our" white man syndrome.
"just like in Hong kong or japan u have girls there who likes leo or tom cruise but ask them who their ideal guy is 90% of them will say Aaron Kwok (hk singer ) and some other chinese film stars..." A-Man
The world is much bigger than America..the Asians are the majority in this world..1.2 billion Chinese and 1 billion Indians to start with.
"I have seen some WM in a club trying to hit on my friend who is a beautiful thai girl when she rejects him...he's like WTF? how could this be ? I am da white knight ..the king of the world the master race ..i guess it's time for the WM to face the fact they ain't all that!" A-Man
Not very unusual. If it is a two way street no problem...but you go near a white female, or a light-skinned female (say of Lebanese extraction), all hell will break loose.
They are also saying that 50% of Asian American Males may not get married because Asian American females would not marry them...which brings me to my last point...I think that the Asian American men should look for brides back in Asia, and help them and their entire families migrate here...that would quicken the day when the whites become a minority in this country. Power comes in numbers or through money!
Asian American Male
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 12:35:53 (PST)
A-man,
27 is the answer you seek to life, the universe, and all the fishes in the sea. ^_^
AC Dropout
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 10:44:04 (PST)
be,
The "mating template" theory has nothing to do with genetic predisposition. The theory was developed to explain why migrating groups of people would mate, it is use to debunk genetic fate or predisposition.
It goes if a group of people migrate from Europe to Cental Asia, why would mating occur between these two groups. The theory goes if a child of European descent is growing up in Central Asia surrounded by Central Asains, they will develop a natural attraction to Central Asains due to experiences that molded their "mating template." It is an inborn pyschological trigger to ensure the individual human is able to pass on their genes, even if it mean going against the societal norm of their group.
I only extrapolated that theory to encompass "mass media"
Genetic predipostion - ewww. Hard science and socialogy all mixed into one.
Criminals - Are people who behavior goes outside societal norms (average). Hence, any society will have them because if behavior falls within a bell shape distribution curve. There will also be people exhibiting behaviors on the edge of the curve.
Royality - Just look to England in order to see bankrupt royality in the streets. Sure they can send their kids to Oxford without applying, if they can still afford it. Meritocracy is the way of the future with over competition of resources.
Individuality - Just another psychological yearning. If we were all that individual to the point of being irreplaceable; standized education, corporations, and medicine would just fall apart. Not to we are the Borg and mindless drones. But we are influences by the masses and are also part of the masses.
AC Dropout
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 10:41:18 (PST)
This is in response to "be ":
You said (in response to the "asian eyes" issue):
"No, this is not about ‘self-hate’, nor is it about looking ‘less asian’. This is about conforming to today’s standard of beauty...which happens to be ‘white’."
It is not about looking less asian? Let me see here- you admit that beauty standard they are trying to conform to is white. Eyes with an epicanthic fold are a feature most commonly found in asians. So you are telling me that asians who get this surgery are not trying to look "less asian" even though they ARE trying to conform to a white beauty standard? This sounds very contradictory to me. Please explain.
You said:
"White females are obsess with being thin...is this to say they prefer to look asian?"
I have heard this counterargument before, but it holds no water. Eyes with the epicanthic fold are an asian ethnic feature (obviously not 100% of asian have this, but it is MOST common, and VERY common among asians exclusively). Being overweight is NOT an ethnic feature exclusive to white people. Therefore, you cannot compare losing weight to wanting to look asian.
I'd also like to hear your response to these questions:
Would an Asian woman find her daughter (with a white man) less
attractive if the child inherited more of her asian features? Would an
asian woman think of her child (with a white man) as less attractive than
if the mother had been white?
You said:
"I also want to make one more important point. It seems like many on this forum are quick at placing judgements on AF involved in interracial dating. This type of attack reminds me of how people can be so reluctant when it comes to giving praises, yet prone to offering criticisms. I am appalled with the discrimination that has been repeatedly expressed on this forum. Why is it so hard to focus on the positives? Despite the increasing WM/AF relationships, there are still many AF who are willing to date AM...let’s try to accept this as the truth."
I find it interesting that, whenever these issues are brought up, someone invariably attempts to stifle the discussion by saying "why are we being so negative? why not focus on the positives?" or "it's none of your business, it is just personal preference". The purpose of my post was to examine the statistically-backed trend- as I said, 40% of asian women (on average) marry white men in the US. Compare this to the 5% of white women who marry outside of their race. This statistic alone warrants discussion, and the fact that so many asian women date white men exclusively only adds to it. In my opinion, these issues shouldn't just be brushed off with the usual "personal preference, it's none of your business, love is colorblind" arguments because love is obviously NOT colorblind for many of these women, and it is not coincidence that 40% of asian women share the same "personal preference".
Matt Richardson
meme0114@yahoo.com
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 10:12:43 (PST)
This is in response to "s.vietnamese female who thinks ppl should quit chattin out of their ASs ":
You said:
"Your several dates with asian women are hardly representative of the millions and billions out there."
My dates aren't the only basis for my statements- I have countless asian male and female friends, and experiences with them and white male friends who date asian women have only confirmed these things. Interesting that you ignored the census statistics I presented, which you can verify at www.census.gov. These stats show that, on average, 40% of asian women marry outside their race (and over 95% of those to white men). Compare this to the 5% of white women who marry outside their race.
You said:
"...and if it were and theres a load of AFs remainin exclusive for WMs, whats the big deal? why not personal preference? is it *that* hard to believe?"
As I said, there is such as thing as personal preference, but when this SAME preference is shared by a VERY large percentage of asian women (in some asian subgroups,
marrying a white man is MORE common than marrying an asian one; among all asian-american women in the U.S., according to the most recent census is
around 40% are outmarrying and almost all to white males), especially
since it often comes with the mindset of NOT dating asian
males, I think some deeper issues need to be explored. It is obviously an issue of color and race, or else you'd see far more IR couples with asian women and non-white, non-asian men as well. How is it that you don't see this as a problem?
You said:
"I dont think itd be odd at all if i knew a white woman whose never dated a white guy. why should i? and if she hasn't does that make her racist too?"
My point is precisely that it does NOT commonly exist among white people, and yet you see this a lot among asian women. Especially considering that most of these asian women have closer cultural
ties with asian men, many if not most grew up around other asian families in their neighborhood, why do you see this behavior among asian women and not white women?
You said:
"'Self hatred' my ass, and im assumin this self hatred stems from the fact that we're asian???? pSh dont make me laugh. "
Asian women get surgery to make their eyes look less asian by getting rid of the epicanthic fold. Does this stem fron the fact that they are asian? Yes.
You said:
"Right next stupidass issue.....so y'reckon if an Asn girl doesnt like the look of her eyes, its only logical to think that since aalll asn guys have the saame small eyes, she'll find them unattractive??? somehow i dont see what logic has to do with dating. Say for eg, u hated your baldin head..um, that means youd..o ok bad eg, but u get my point?"
No, I don't get your point, and I think logic has a lot of more to do with dating than you are willing to admit. It is interesting that you choose baldness in your example because that most commonly affects only men. I'll give you another example: say you have black skin and you think it makes you ugly so you bleach your skin and do everything you can to make your skin fair. Are you going to find a person with dark skin attractive? I DON'T THINK SO. Why is this so hard to comprehend? It is the same thing with asian eyes- if an asian woman finds asian eyes so unattractive that she gets cosmetic surgery to change them, then is she going to be physically atracted to someone with this feature? Probably not. Is physical attraction the only factor in a relationship? No, but it IS certainly a factor in forming initial interest in someone.
You said:
"Asian females, or those i know of, including myself, are nothing BUT proud about where theyre from and who they are. people have different preferences and u should try harder to distinguish this from the fact that if you've never dated someone ur own race, ur automatically assumed prejudice."
I do not agree. Once again, if this were just "personal preference" then you wouldn't see such a large percentage of asian women who grew up in asian neighborhoods with asian friends, went to college with a lot of asians, end up with white men. It is obviously a TREND among asian women. This is obviously NOT color-blind or we would see other races involved in this, and not just white men. Considering the number of asian women who date white men exclusively, or don't like dating asian men, there are issues to be discussed here. Writing this off as personal preference is a very easy way to avoid discussing the issues behind these very clear trends. Why do so many asian women SHARE this EXACT "personal preference" for white men? Why do 40% of asian women marry outside their race, and why almost always only to white men? This versus only 5% of white women who marry outside their race.
Matt Richardson
meme0114@yahoo.com
Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 09:58:58 (PST)
NEWEST COMMENTS |
EARLIER COMMENTS
|