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ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:38:55 AM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage is't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
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Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
TO everyone,
I'm a soc major in college and I've learned a thing or two about African Americans. (Why because no one had, and still has it worse than them) In relation to the gender divide, I think AM must pick ourselves up with our own "bootstraps". I think this is the only way like JOHN said, if the women are going to lift a finger about their identity problem, then we as AMs will have to find the courage and guts to win back their "hearts and minds". And yes, we will have to fight all the stereotypes that have been plaguing us for so long. I'm not saying we should change our entire identity, but unless AFs start giving us a "little more time", then we may have to bend over backwards for them. If thats what they really want? Instead of bashing the AFs, I have constantly tried to study them, but unfortunately like most chicks they are full uncertaintity and mystery. In the end, we may have to face the fact that we should be proud to BE WHO WE ARE, and in return deserve respect.
Gregory- the Saint
Sunday, March 24, 2002 at 03:13:08 (PST)
this is to "be"
You want an AF point-of-view? Here's mine.
1. I personally don't think that the white version of Barbie is prettier than the Black or the Hispanic or the Asian version, just differently painted and dyed.
2. You don't know how many WFs I've met who possess the basic American white beauty standards (large blue eyes, blonde hair, tall nose, etc.) and still look troll-like! Believe me, it takes more than a few standard features to be considered a beauty in most cases. In fact, beauty has a lot more to do with a person's attitude and how she carries herself than the physical features she was born with (although the one generally helps the other).
3. What would help would be to have as many really gorgeous AFs as possible, go out there and stand by their Asian men. When enough of us do that, why, all eyes turn to the AMs and the attraction will be created, whereby all women of all races will consider AMs to be exciting & desirable. After all, if the gorgeous gals are all running in one direction, something must be cooking there.
4. Maybe I should delete #3...I'm really kicking myself in the arse if this idea takes off...because then we AFs won't have the market share of A males that we are used to at this time. It will be a AMs market and then we'll be left with whomever that's left after all the women have picked them over. That's not a good scenario.
5. Finally, "Insecurities" - I grew up with the same pressures both from within the family and the outside world, but I guess I dealt with it differently. If my parents didn't want me to hold any worthwhile opinions, I simply withheld my tongue and spewed out my thoughts with teachers, siblings and friends who understood. If the guys wanted to view me as a sexy exotic object, that was cool too! Sure beats having to dig around to find a date for Senior Prom. And I also, have been delegated hard tasks from my boss, and I get all stewed about it, and I do the tasks, and I get promoted. Hey, ain't life grand?
I have more to say, but I'll save some for later.
MLK
Saturday, March 23, 2002 at 18:14:52 (PST)
I've seen it asked several times where the 40% figure comes from. What is the credible source for this?
V-Chick
nicomedes@consultant.com
Saturday, March 23, 2002 at 14:41:01 (PST)
Cont.. To AA male who complain about AA females:
Well, just to continue my story about those 2 guys, both AA men, one is very successful with AA women while the other significantly less so. Remember who is tall and possess good looks while the other doesnt as much. But they are both AA men.
Now the twist of the story is this. The short guy who's always complaining about AA women not giving him a fair shake has actually been with more non-Asian women than Asian women. While the more desirable AA male has never dated seriously outside of his race. He once told me he was simply much more attracted to girls of his own race. He's never really considered this gender divide with much thought, while the other guy can't stop complaining.
Interesting isn't it??
The point is this: There are plenty of good desirable AA women out there. Let's simply ignore those LOSER sell-out bitches!!!
AA Male Perspective
Saturday, March 23, 2002 at 13:25:40 (PST)
To AA Males who complain about AA Females:
Yeah we know many of them have issues. But their issues are with themelves and really not us AA males.
I will tell you about 2 friends, both AA males around the same age. One persistently complains that AA women dont give him a chance. He never seem to get dates. The other never complains and in fact has to fight off many AA females who are constantly trying to go out with him. One is very smooth with the ladies and the other tries way too hard. Ok. Women generally consider the smooth guy good-looking, tall, etc., and the complaining one, well not so good-looking; although i dont think it's all about his looks. One is 6 ft tall and the other 5 ft 6" Yet they are both AA males!
The point is this. The AA gender divide is not solely based on AA males complaining about AA females abandoning them. The fact is that many AA males are getting much more than their share of AA female attention. AA males who don't get the female attention should blame the AA male who does as much as the White guys who get AA female attention.
The issue I think is more about self-esteem or rather the lack of such among Asian Americans, particularly AA females. That is a problem inherent within the person, regardless whether they date White men exclusively or not. They cannot change themselves this way. In other words, they will never be white, regardless of hairdyes or contacts or plastic surgery. Sick, isn't it?
If people want to feel better about themeselves they have to change their outlook from within. That's what's it's all about. This divide will be gone once that's the case.
AA Male Perspective
Saturday, March 23, 2002 at 13:06:17 (PST)
TH Lien says:
Well not always. To give a stupid example, if you are a man, and start to get fat and look like you have breasts, you would do everything you could to get rid of them and achieve a flat chest, but regardless, still might not find a flat-chested women attractive. Some characteristics are considered attractive in one sex but not the other. Dark skin might be one. (Goldfish-like eyes probably aren't, but anyway ...).
********************
This is getting way out of hand! This is so freaking stupid. The guy Matt makes a very good point. He shouldnt even bother responding to their stupidity! These people are just trying in vain to justify their inferiority complex with their own Asian race. The above come-back was just tooo stupid..that it doesnt make any sense. Flat chested man vs flat-chested women. How ridiculous?
This inferiority complex among AA women is a REAL problem. These people who frantically try and argue with this SIMPLE point are simply fooling themselves, just as they do each morning when they see themselves in the mirror or put on those silly blue contacts or dye that hair a light color. Sad!! They actually believe they are more attractive when in fact they just become an "abomination" of nature. Does "Michael Jackson" sound familiar?
Hey it's ok to choose a different look once in a while. Such is healthy and fun. But think about the REAL REASONING behind your actions. You just might be SICK!
It's so obivious that these sell-out Asians look down on their own Asian traits; they obviously try and change themselves so. Unfortunately no one is more conscious of this fact than these insecure AA women themselves. Therefore they would of course find AA men repulsive as AA men represent these certain AA women's worst nightmare, "their own Asianness". Think about it. If you think the mole on your chin is disgusting, would you find others with the same mole attractive? Is it really that puzzling that they consider a substandard White male more attractive than a grade-A Asian male?
Love is colorbling. My a..ss!
The fact is there is no need to argue such a moot point. Simply face the facts. And look to try and better oneself and one's outlook about oneself. Otherwise you'll never be truly happy. That's the whole point here, finding oneself and accepting oneself. Trust me on this one. You can't truly be happy with ANYONE unless you're happy with yourself first.
The fact is these people's negative view's on themselves is twisted and magnified. The more they focus on their insecurities and their so-called "lack of whiteness" the more a non-white trait appears unacceptable. It's very simple.
The issue is "why do these sick people consider their asianness a negative trait?" There are many reason i suspect such as media misrepresentation or lack of media representation. But mostly it's a simple lack of "self-esteem" and lack of strength in character.
Is being non-white or possessing non-white traits really so bad? Of course not. This is a "SICKNESS." These people should try and do something about it. I personally think Asian people are some of the most desirable and attractive people in the world. Each race whether Asian, white or black has its virtues of beauty and desirability. But unfortunately it takes a real person who thinks openly to believe this. It's just that whites are so over-represented especially in the western world. But this shouldnt make a difference if love is truly colorblind and one chooses to think outside of this box. Are AA women so easily led? I think the sell-outs are just the weakest of all human beings. AA men dont seem to possess this weakness despite the same upbrings and negative imagery of AA's (worst for us.) Well at least not in such vast numbers.
AA women sell-outs are despicable. Any strong AA man should not date such a woman. Strong non-Asian men should only use these women for sex, well those that lack integrity anyhow. They are nothing but slaves unable to think freely, slaves who will die hating themselves, slaves who should NEVER reproduce. That's life people. Accept it. Now try and better yourself.
AA Male Perspective
Saturday, March 23, 2002 at 10:51:16 (PST)
Matt:
"The question is why do a disproportionately large percentage of asian women have the same "personal preference" which is white men?"
This works both ways..so let me ask you...why are so many white men appeal to asian women? I have came across several white men who REFUSE to date any one other than asian women..how do you explain the reasons for the increasing percentage of white men exclusively dating asian women?
"40% of asian women in the US marry outside their race"
How many of those 40% of asian women were seeking white men? Funny, b/c I thought it was the other way around. Asians are typically quiet and reserved...and female (regardless of the race) enjoys being pursued. White men are known for their complacent and agressive behavior when it comes to dating. Men (all race) are typically the pursuer. Can you deny this?
"How often do you see white women who behave this way (obviously for nonwhite men)? It is very rare."
Is it fair to compare AF with WF? The only similarities between AF and WF is the female part. We are raised in complete OPPOSITE cultures...our behaviors differ greatly b/c of this...our society views us in extremely different ways (white is the ideal beauty...and asian is merely the sexual object). I will ask you again, is it fair to compare AF and WF behaviors while disregarding the many other factors that affects it?
"And since this feature is common to almost all asians, isn't this an issue of racial self-hatred?"
Let's look at in another way. Some AF may dislike their small eyes...at the same time, some WF dislike their big thighs. Is it fair to say one is 'self-hating' while the other is not? Afterall, they both dislike their features enough to go under the knife. Aren't both women simply trying to achieve beauty?
"Since whites make up over 75% of the US population, it is no wonder they set the beauty standards. However, why is this not recognized as a WHITE beauty standard?"
There is little representation of AA in the media...the ones that exist are negative (AM are perceived as dorks, AF are perceived as a piece of ass). As I said before, 'white' being a standard of beauty is a problem...but the bigger problem is that AF are buying into it. I guess just like WM are buying into AF 'worthless, sexual object' portrayal. I believe this is a result of AF insecurities. The questions still remains...is it fair to say that AF are insecure b/c our gene enable us to be this way and we deserve to be treated like crap b/c we are hopeless weak individuals (you all said AF are the most insecure of all females)?..or our insecurities a result of many complex factors that have contributed to our sense of 'worthlessness'?
Before you all continue to bash AF...try answering these questions. You can insult the 'sell-outs' as much as you want...their extreme hatred are severe and sometimes they dont deserve our sympathy. I think its unfair the rest of us other AF must be held accountable for the few 'sell-outs'. And "sell-out" is to be defined as an AF who despise AM and the asian culture..NOT someone who is involved in IR relationships.
be
Saturday, March 23, 2002 at 10:09:51 (PST)
Matt, I have read many of your posts and think that you're an intelligent, thoughtful guy, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I DO dislike being labeled as "European-American" or white or white female. Once a person labels you, they immediately begin assuming things about you. In most cases, and very much in my case, many of the things that they assume are incorrect and even offensive. It's inevitable, yes, but I wish that it wasn't. I may be wrong, but I am assuming that that's what "don't like labels" was trying to express.
Ahankara
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 22:34:40 (PST)
This is in response to "be", who said:
"Let's examine this issue then. Before I proceed, I must point out that..it may be true 40% of AF marry WM...but not all 40% of those AF were exclusively dating WM when they were single...and not all 40% were self-haters...and not all 40% despise AM. A small percentage do possess all these traits..and again, that hatred is based on ignorance."
Obviously, there have been no studies to determine the exact percentage of asan women who date white men exclusively, so any discussion must be subjective. Most of my white male friends and asian male friends confirm that a very large percentage (close to half) of the asian women they know or meet do date white men exclusively or a vast majority of the men they date are white. Many express stereotypes against asian men as well.
Matt Richardson
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 21:36:49 (PST)
i don't know, but this matt richardson guy sounds too knowledgeable of AM issues to be WM. could we have yet another imposter?
villageidiot
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 21:02:24 (PST)
to "be" again,
"Once an idoit, always an idoit."
i'm going to let this one slide because it's one day behind.
"AM are raised in a similar environment as an AF. However, AF play the subservient role..and are not regarded as highly as AM in the same family."
if you're going amy tan and the other "white-washed" authors on this, i don't have anything kind to say about it. if you want to define old asian family values where it is the FEMALE who perpetuates them and puts the girls down, then it's your business. as it is usually twisted by the "whitewashed authors" for american audiences, it isn't the males who dominate the culture values. men are usually out of the house and it is the women who teach and uphold asian cultural values. therefore, the putting down and female hiearchy is attributed to the women.
now if you want to talk ASIAN-AMERICAN family values, from all i've seen it is the girls who are praised more so than the boys. we boys were treated as rascals and scolded when the girls were looked at as perfect. but your personal mileage may vary and KEEP YOUR OWN FAMILY EXPERIENCES with your family, don't dump your family problems onto the whole asian-american community.
"My only reply to your stupidity is this..Do AM takes dating more seriously than WM? Are AM not as agressive as WM?"
once again, you're relying on media stereotypes to support what you want to believe. i'm not at all surprised at your "geek and wimpy" AM stereotype. we AM take BOTH dating seriously and are agressive at it. in fact, i doubt you've been persued by an AM, probably due to reasons i said in the previous post about your attitude needing change.
"The key word on #2 was..'may'...and the reason is b/c of the white standard of beauty. #3..the media's FALSE sexual portrayal of AF DO impact WM perception of AF."
when people go to nitpick gramar, they USUALLY DON'T have POSSIBLY any better arguement to back it up. resorting to semantics and grammar is just lame, don't you know. if these are negative and false portrayals of AF, why are you using them to back up your reasons for AF outdating? shouldn't you try to refute them as the bad reasons for WM chasing AF and poor innocent AF brain-washed by the media? instead, you're relying on them in your arguement as if you were proud of them.
"you're just an AF basher."
and you're just an AM basher, now what does that solve? but this is old news. i do agree with some of your recent posts about coming to terms with AF and AM. however, it takes two to tango, and nearly all the AM opinions for you "be" have tried to be constructive. now the ball is in your AF court, i for one am trying to make amends, but if the next post containing "idiot" because you're so "smart" to still use that worn-out phrase, then by all means let the canonballs fly.
villageidiot
villageidiot1@collegeclub.com
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 21:01:39 (PST)
In response to T.H. Lien:
You said (in response to the self-hatred issue):
"Some characteristics are considered attractive in one sex but not the other. Dark skin might be one. (Goldfish-like eyes probably aren't, but anyway ...)."
It is obvious that there are gender-specific characteristics when it comes to attractiveness. What I'm talking about are asian ETHNIC features which many asian women seem to find unattractive. These include:
1. Asian eyes (it surprises me how many asian women get cosmetic surgery for this)
2. Asian nose
3. Asian eye color (again, why don't you see blue or green-eyed white women wearing BROWN colored contacts??)
4. Black hair
It is convenient to bring up gender-specific characteristics as a devil's-advocate counterargument, but it doesn't work here since I am talking about a different category of features: ETHNIC features. Just look at the stat on this site about how high the nose and eyelid cosmetic surgery procedures are on the polls on this website and you'll see what I mean. I guess I don't see your point...many asian women feel their ethnic features are unattractive, so I am asking if this means they would also find asian men unattractive.
Matt Richardson
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 20:58:21 (PST)
In response to "Asian Male:, who asked:
"Why do 40% of Lebanese women marry outside their race (Arab), and why almost always only to white men? This versus only 5% of white women who marry outside their race."
First, a simple question: where did you get your statistic that 40% of lebanese women marry white men? I'll tell you where I got mine: www.census.gov.
I don't believe the census separates lebanese from other races (I see white, hispanic, black, asian/pacific-islander). Please use FACTS in your arguments.
Matt Richardson
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 20:48:33 (PST)
This is in response to "whatever Matt", who said:
"I seriously doubt the validity of this statistic. If what you say is true I'm sure you don't mind providing a credible source for your statement."
Here is the source. Read it and respond:
http://www.census.gov
go into the marriage stats section and view the racial makeup category. You will see this 40% number nationwide is verified. Let me know what you have to say after you verify it is true.
Matt
Matt Richardson
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 20:39:59 (PST)
Get this,
I was walking through a mall by myself when I walked past a group of white guys with an AF sidekick(I'm guessing one of white guys was her boyfriend). This neighborhood is predominantly white. Oakbrook ,IL to be specific. I looked at her and she was giving me a stupid *#$#ing smirk on her face. I could also feel the stare from some of the white guys. What the hell was that all about? Is there some kind of conspiracy going on here? If I was walking with a group of white girls and happened to walk toward an asian girl, I definitely would not do any thing of such sort. I guess she was messed up in the head, but it left me betrayed in some ways. I happen to like asian girls alot so it hits me so much harder. Dont mean to complain but someone has to explain to me what happened.
AAM ,Oakbrook
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 17:38:19 (PST)
In response to Matt Richardson:
You write:
First of all, I find your attitude toward the "AF label" interesting-- why don't you like being called an asian female? Do you also not like being "labeled" as a female? If you don't mind this label, then why do you mind the asian one since those are your geographical and cultural roots? Do you ever see european-americans say they don't like the "european" label? No, but many asians (like yourself) seem to think it holds a negative connotation. Why is this?
My Response:
You badly misread what was written. She showed a general dislike for labels not a specific dislike for the AF label. These are dramatically different things. The cultural essentialism that you support in your 'cultural roots' statement is one reason many of us do not like racial labels. In the US there is absolutely no reason to assume that a persons geographical and cultural roots are or should be the same. Most white Americans have predominately British cultural roots, although only about 40 million out of over 200 million have British geographical roots. European-American is not analogous to Asia-American as it refers more to immigration status than race. Only first generation immigrants from Europe, not all white Americans, are properly refered to as European-Americans.
You Write:
You said:
"While there are predetermined factors that come into play when others (in this case, people of other race) meet you (in this case, AM) such as that persons past experiences with people of your race, you are still the most important contributing factor."
You are still the most important contributing factor, but it seems that, for many asian women, you are only considered as possible dating/marriage material if you are NOT asian. This is what we are discussing here, because so many asian women date white men exclusively (or white men make up a majority of the men they choose to date). You can get into personality and all the unique things that make up a person, but when you see such a clear trend of asian women outmarrying so much compared to women of other races, combined with the attitudes encountered by so many men, you will see that some asian women tend not to look at a man as marriage material unless he is white. How often do you see white women who behave this way (obviously for nonwhite men)? It is very rare.
My Response:
I have yet to see any evidence that these AF's who will not date or consider AM's as marriage material exist anywhere other than the paranoid delusions of certain bitter AM's. The outmarriage rate for AF's is far below what would be expected in a truly color-blind society. The statistics certainly do not in anyway support the claim of legions of AM hating AF's.
AF's have a lower outmarriage rate than Native Americans and a comparable outmarriage rate to Hispanic Americans, so your 'trend' is a nonexistant figment of your immagination. The only two groups of women with a significantly lower outmarriage rate are whites and blacks. In any case the 'disparaty' of fenale vs male outmarriage rate exists for whites at nearly the same ratio as for asians.
You Write:
You said: "There are many reasons as to why Asian females would like to date White males, not the least of these being money, status and power. From my own experience however, I observed the reasons that bring interracial couples together are: a need for companionship, shared likes/goals, and attraction. "
I think that intelligent discussion of the issues is a good thing. Many people are trying to stifle the discussion by saying things like:
1. It is too complex to even begin to discuss
2. There is too much negativity in the discussion and discussing it is not helpful or productive
3. It is personal preference
4. It is none of your business, why do you care?
5. Love is colorblind
I'm not arguing that relationships in general don't form based on companionship, shared likes/goals, and attraction. I am trying to form an intelligent discussion of the issue here, which I feel is important. The issue is this: 40% of asian women in the US marry outside their race, vs. only 5% of white women. More than 95% of the asian women who marry outside their race marry white men. Why do you think this is? You say some possible reasons are "money, status and power" but asians as a group are one of the most successful, wealthy, and well-educated groups in the country so what you say makes no sense since plenty of asian men (and women) have money, status, and power. The question is why do a disproportionately large percentage of asian women have the same "personal preference" which is white men? You claim that a discussion only provides an outlet for asian male insecurities and that nothing will come of it, but I think that if we get responses from the (many) asian women on this website and start an intelligent discussion, maybe we will come closer to an understanding of just what is going on here.
My response:
Only a small percentage of whites outmarry because whites make up more than 75% of the general population. Even if every non-white married a white, the total outmarriage rate for whites would be less than the present outmarriage rate for asians of either sex. Comparing their outmarriage rates cannot demonstrate anything unless absolute sizes of the populations are taken into account. Turning your statistics around, 60% of AF's marry AM even though AM make up fewer than 5% of the available pool of marriage partners. If love were actually colorblind, one would expect that 95% of AF's would outmarry instead of 40%. The statistics clearly and unambiguously demonstrate that there are societal barriers to the outmarriage of AF's rather than societal pressure for such outmarriage. The question you keep asking:
"The question is why do a disproportionately large percentage of asian women have the same "personal preference" which is white men?"
is simply based on a completely wrong assumption. Simply put, there is no disproportionately large percentage of AF's dating or marrying WM. In fact, a dispoportionately small percentage of every racial group in this country, male or female, is outmarrying or outdating. Looking for reasons for a non-existant phenomenon is unlikely to lead to intelligent discussion. The real question, is why are asian men even less likely to outmarry than asian women in the context of American society? (ie any such reason must be consistent with the fact that WF's are quite a bit more likely to outmarry than WM are and African-American Men are also far more likely to outmarry than African-American Women are while there is no disparity for Hispanics or Native Americans).
YS the unlabeled
YS
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 14:52:17 (PST)
Matt::: "Interesting that you ignored the census statistics I presented, which you can verify at www.census.gov. These stats show that on average, 40% of asian women marry outside their race (and over 95% of those to white men). Compare this to the 5% of white women
who marry outside their race"
It was interestin was it? well, let me rectify that cos i didnt ignore it based on the fact that i had no argument for it. Would this census perhaps include the reason behind each AF's choice in dating a white guy? Hey, I'm not denying that there are some AF who date white guys because they're white, but my point is that doesn't apply to everyone so stop implying that it does. As for comparing the 40% of AF who date outside their race as opposed to 5% of WF, i won't make up reasons as to validate my argument cos honestly i dont know, however im baffled as to what it proves. Does that make us more racist against our counterparts than WF or does it suggest we're more open minded? We dont know cos these specific stats only confirm the no. of women who marry outside their race, and not whether their doing so because the guy is white or whether they've only ever exclusively dated white guys.
As for you sayin that dating white guys comes 'from the mindset of not dating asn males', how do u know? this one u can't back up with official stats and i assume this time, are based on ur 'several dates', hardly reliable.
"Asian women get surgery to make their eyes look less asian by getting rid of the epicanthic fold. Does this stem fron the fact that they are asian? Yes"
The fold may be an ethnic feature but you have no right to accuse that by having cosmetic surgery on it they're basically saying 'i hate myself because i'm asian'. Like i said before, girls nowadays are pressured into being thin etc, and having cosmetic surgery on the eye is just another form of insecurity. You, and countless others in here, are blaming everything we do on us wanting to be white when you havent a clue. What are us AF's supposed to do when if we wanna dye our hair jus cos it looks nice, we're gonna be accused of being ashamed of our roots and 'fooling people into thinking she's white' [Huu76-'Be' may not be bothered to respond to ur stupidass comments but someone has to make u realize the extent to which u chat shit-i'll get back to u later]
"say you have black skin and you think it makes you ugly so you bleach your skin and do everything you can to make your skin fair. Are you going to find a person with dark skin attractive? I DON'T THINK SO. Why is this so hard to comprehend?"
It's so hard to comprehend because it's not true. It may apply to ur twisted version of logic but still, its not true. I'm stuck for eg's now that TH Lien took the 'man breast' one, but i doubt i'll make my point any clearer.
Huu76:::YOu twat.
"I think AF are taking what they perceive as the easy way out. Everything will be all "white" if they marry white. White?"
my response? ..........*tumbleweed**
Huu you sound like you're recovering from rejection and perhaps the pain is more bearable if you blame it on u being asian rather than ur personal traits, eg a shite personality or something similar .then again it could simply be a case of 'chattin out of ass' syndrome.
"WM asks AF out a lot because they know AF doesn't give AM a chance unless AM has $$$ (and lots of it)" ...personal experience perhaps?? if so, stop makin it sound as though we're all like that, i mean a reputation to keep and all..
It may sound as though i am but im not completely dismissin ur views. I'm from UK so I'm not 100% clued up abt the AAF and what they're like. But based on the things u said, eg:
"Love is colourblind, personal preference, you're ignorant, blah blah blah...
These are just convenient excuses when AF are seen for what they really are, self hating white girl worshippers"
...you're obviously implying that we're all the same when we're not. How can you tell the difference between an AF who dates a white guy on the basis of his skin colour and one that genuinely likes him? you're making unfair and stupid assumptions, therefore to quite a large extent, this makes you v. ignorant.
MOst of u in here are banging on about us stereotyping AM whilst you're doing exactly the same thing. I'm constantly brining up the same argument cos noone seems to understand that jus cos u may have had some bad experiences with AFs dont automatically assume that we're these 'self hating white girl worshippers', as Huu76 aka asswipe, so nicely put it. And with this increasing trend of AF w/ WM, you all dont know the reason behind it so you've no right to judge.
Finally [promise] to the asn guys out there, don't make stupidass assumptions that if an asian girl doesnt wanna go out with u its cos ur asian. Sure it may be the case sometimes, but have u ever considered the fact that it may be down to u as a person..?[the truth hurts right?]
p.s. i've never encountered this asn female dating white guy cos he's white thing, obviously it exists cos you're all so pissed abt it. I'm jus wonderin is this a generation thing? I'm 16 so maybe my lot are less..um...judgemental? anyway just wonderin.
elizabeth, uk [not trying to be white but this is merely my name], aka s.vietnamese girl who reckons ppl should quit chattin out of ass
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 14:05:35 (PST)
Matt Richardson,
You mention the figure of 40% asian female marry outside their race while only 5 % white female marry outside their race, good! Let's see what these number REALLY represents!
Assuming that the total population of USA is 300,000,000. And that 50% are male and 50% are female, 3% are Asian and 80% are white.
40% of Asian female marrying outside the race = 1,800,000
5% of White female marrying outside hte race = 6,000,000
Now non white males in America under my previous assumption would be 30,000,000
So for 5 non white male out there 1 would have a white wife.
Similarity non asian males in america =145,500,000
So for every 80 non asian male out there there ONLY 1 would have an Asian wife.
Why don't you explain to me what this means? And everyone else is welcome to comment on my number .
Thanx guys.
Wang ZhiZhi
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 13:24:38 (PST)
Since there are lots more white women than Asian women in the US, I'll willing to bet that 5% of the white female population is still larger thatn 40% of the Asian female population. And since number-wise, white women marry out of their race than Asian women do, wouldn't that make white woment the "sell-outs"?
Asian History Buff
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 13:14:24 (PST)
Once again, I'm going to stress this. I do not agree with some of the AF behaviors. I am simply telling you what I believe are the reasons, so you can understand us better..in hope to lessen the tensions between AF and AM.
Matt:
"My question is if you PERSONALLY feel that your asian features are less attractive than white features, not about how men perceive you."
Yes, the asian features are less attractive than the white features b/c they do not conform to the today's standard of beauty.
"I don't think non-asian (white) females are threatened in any way since they embody the american white beauty standard....Also, any half-way decent looking woman of ANY race has been approached by many men in her life"
You have misunderstood...I wasnt bragging about the attention AF get. Quite honestly, I dont feel I am beautiful, and I never said I was. WF do NOT envy AF...why should they, they are the majority? However, WF do not like WM giving AF attention.
"Can you tell me how marrying a white man will free them of the pressures they endured growing up?"
AF are often treated as less of a person in comparison to the males in the same family. One of the reasons they may marry WM is to create an identity for themselves. I think many AF raised in america feels lost. I'm not saying this is the best method either...just helping you understand.
"This is stereotyping all asian males, saying they take dating more seriously. Again, are you including american-born asian men in this? If so, what you sya makes no sense since their values are generally just as americanized as the average american-born asian woman."
There is a lot about of concepts about the asian culture you have not grasp. I am AA..and I was refering to AA males.
"why don't you see an equal number of asian men marrying white women since they fit the white beauty standard better than asian women?"
AM do NOT have half the insecurities AF have. AM do find AF to be attractive...the problems is AF have low-esteem about themselves. AND the insecurities are not something we brought upon ourselves...various factors have contributed to this..and AF bashing is another one to be added on that list.
"This makes no sense to me, since american-born asian men are aplenty and they generally have a very westernized and liberal mindset."
I dont expect you to understand this, either. Asian americans have adapted some of the western culture, but not the mindset.
Village Idoit:
"all you've done so far is to throw hissy-fits like the spoiled little girl you are whenver somebody disagrees with you."
You're guilty of this as well. Yes, I admit, I can be harsh with certain people (not all)...but my responses are a reflectance of theirs. If you dont like me to be so cruel, then dont be like that with me.
"have you noticed almost all the AM on this divide board disagrees with your views thus far?"
I completely expected it..this is exactly why the AA gender is divided.
"i'm not here to dismiss your perspectives and experiences, but all you've done to provide a bubble for yourself inside which no bigotry or injustice exists."
Sorry, sounds like you havent been reading my comments carefully enough. Many times I have acknowledged that there IS injustice against AA. I also stated that hatred among ourselves and towards others DO NOT contribute to the solution.
"yes, you did say how we AM are racist against AF, among other things."
I never said or believed AM are racist. I pointed out many positive traits about AM in general. Those INDIVIDUAL (who were AM) I called 'racist' were so b/c they exhibited that behavior.
"note that i didn't put you down in this post, i'm merely fed up with your attitude"
You may not have "put me down" but you did something much worst...you have misinterpreted all my intentions. Nice try. That was very clever of you, though.
John:
"I think if there has to be a solution asian men has to win the asian women back...Asian guys have to change how asian women look at us."
One thing for sure, AM and AF should not change themselves to attract others...you are who you are, and you should be proud of that. However, AM should be more understanding of the issues AF must deal with, and AF must be the same towards AM. This alone still would not solve the problem. The mass media, white males, the asian culture, the american culture, society perception of beauty, etc have all contributed to this problem.
FOP:
"Maybe you should call yourself wannabe, instead of be."
I dont get it.
Hannybunbun:
"Is this all about "white" and western culture being a popular standard for beauty?"
This is about insecurities asians possess (AF particularily) to buy into such standard of beauty. Even more damaging than this...the MANY factors that have contributed to AF insecurities.
huue76:
"I do blame the Jews for many problems facing N. America internationally. Read some of the other forums."
Regardless of who you blame...what good is blaming if we are not taking the actions to reverse the problem?
be
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 11:34:06 (PST)
be,
You sound like all the other asian kids who needed to deal with the fact their parents method of upbringing was in conflict with mainstream america. Teaching through fidelity is useless when the whole society is different than the ancestors. It is like those Asian American who are laughed at when they go back to Asia.
However, instead of dealing with it like the rest of the asian population. You make it sound as if your parents and their male dominant views victimized you. And that USA mainstream view liberated you. That view is loaded with individual ability of cultural acclimation than anything else.
However, what that has to do 40% AF seeking WM in marriage I am still not clear.
AC Dropout
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 10:35:53 (PST)
Census,
Where did you get that information from? 5% of white women in interracial marriages married blacks? I don't think so. White women would rather marry Asian men or Hispanic men than black men. At least it's true in the South. I know that for fact cos I used to date a southern girl.
FOP
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 10:10:04 (PST)
Aveeno:
Dallas/Fort Worth is a VERY DIFFERENT city from other cities in Texas or in the US. The races much more strongley segregate from each other in a De Facto sense. Most of the Whites and Asians live in the Park Cites, N. Dallas, Plano and Richardson. South Dallas/Oak Cliff is mostly Black. Hispanics mostly live in Fort Worth. Even in universities (UTA, Southern Methodist, TCU, UNT) the ethnic groups tend to stick with their own by habits. Every once in a while you see WFs with BMs or LMs, or WMs with AFs or LFs, but it is very very uncommon for people to interracially date in the DFW area.
If you were to visit Austin or Houston, you'd see a ton of AFs and WMs together, but you'd also see a ton of AFs and AMs together as well. In H-Town, it's about 2 AM/AF for every 1 WM/AF couple. In Austin, it's 1 AM/AF for every 1 WM/AF couple.
In my exprience, DFW has A LOT more problems with overt racism, especially from the White Folks up there. Houston, Austin, San Antonio, Corpus, S. Padre and El Paso are much more racially diverse (read no one-race majority) than DFW. About the only Texas city that has worse racism is Beaumont/Vidor area. In Houston, the races have learned to get along out of necessity. When you have no one-race majority, you have to live and work around eachother, otherwise nothing gets done. The lack of zoning in Houston has also helped prevent the formation of White enclaves.
Granted here are parts of town which are Asian dominant (Westside Chinatown), White-dominant (Katy), Black Dominant (South Houston) or Latin Dominant (East Side). However, you still have other ethnic groups living in these areas, where as in Oak Cliff, you don't see ANY non-Blacks, and in the Park Cities, the only non-Whites you see are SMU students, maids and cleaning ladies.
A lot of these posters are from California, which as a STATE has NO ONE RACE MAJORITY and has a much larger Asian American population than Dallas. As a result, these issues about AFs with non-AMs and the Gender divide are much stronger than they would be in Dallas, which has a minimal Asian population and where the races intentionally segregate themselves. Come on down to Houston, Harris County and Sugar Land where there are LARGE AA populations and you'll find things are MAJORLY DIFFERENT.
Meanwhile, I guess you'll be bleaching your WHITE SHEET for your CSA/KKK rally this weekend.
H-Town Azn Pryde
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 10:04:29 (PST)
Hu asks:
"You think maybe it's because she knows AF will always be trying to steal her boyfriend?"
I do not know about Canada. But here in the US, not just boyfriends, but all potential boyfriens, ie., all white males at least of Anglo-Saxon and North European extraction. No one asks the question why only 5% of white females date outside their race and American whites are so exclusive.
Asian American Male
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 08:31:50 (PST)
Matt Richardson:
Let me introduce myself. I am from India and live in Malaysia. Namaste! You ask some questions of "be" which are very relevant to Indians. And please give me an opportunity to respond.
"Can you tell me how marrying a white man will free them of the pressures they endured growing up?"
The white man would not be demanding dowry from his Indian bride or threaten her. At least I have not heard of one.
"Are you implying that they will face the same pressure from their husbands?"
No. I would face the same pressure my mother faced. More dowry demands!
"This makes no sense to me, since american-born asian men are aplenty and they generally have a very westernized and liberal mindset."
You are not an Indian. At least 50% of the South Asian men born in the US go back home to get their marriages arranged and get dowry. The ratios are a lot higher for Pakistanis and Bengalis born in the UK (even third generation).
"Are you talking about pressure from the asian man's parents?"
At least with regard to South Asians the man's parents demand dowry and sometimes even threaten your life if your parents do not pay up.
"If so, this makes no sense either since you may face much worse pressure from many white men's parents who don't approve of their son marrying an asian girl."
Most white parents (particularly the women are generally racist) are this way at least from my experience dealing with white expatriates here in Malaysia. However, none of them I know of would end up killing their daughter in law and burn them to death for not bringing dowry...Many would disown you and your husband, would not come to your marriage...it happened recently here in Penang. A white male married an Asian female of Chinese and Christian extraction...his parents did not attend the wedding although his dad is an expatriate in a neighboring town. No white expatriate friends of his attended the wedding either. However, they would not think about killing their daughter in law for tainting their lineage...may happen in the US. Please educate me.
Desai
Friday, March 22, 2002 at 08:04:35 (PST)
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