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GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:38:55 AM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage is't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
"Matt Richardson"
Reply to your first half of your post
Don't get so excited. Looks had everything to do with it. If those guys looked like Rick Yune, Russell Wong, or any number of the handsome AMs you see everyday, do you honestly think they would be going around and harassing AFs? They would be with females and making a sucessful go at life. My initial suspicions about why they were doing the harassing proved correct: insecurity about their looks.
Reply to your second half of your post
I don't see your point. You can't dispute what's true by deliberately misinterpreting intent. Your the one with major issues since my post shook you out of your dream world where every AM is perfect.
Women of all races are not satisfied with their bodies. In time, they eventually accept it and rely on the positives as well as character. Your words are flattering to them and I hope they feel better about themselves like all women to deserve to feel. However, coming from you that might not be considered a compliment.
AFs are called ugly by AMs so often in this forum, your description don't bother me or anyone else. Since you're the one who raised stereotypes, I'll dispel them.
AFs embody most or all of the universal standards of beauty: oval to round face shapes, wide set eyes, generous space between eyebrow to upper lashline, pointed chins, high cheekbones, full lips, generous mouths, and dainty noses. While every AF is unique, they almost always have the above traits in some form or another in proportion to their faces and features.
As for small chested, the size of AF breasts are no different proportion wise in size than females of any race. Bigger frames usually mean bigger breasts, but AFs dispel that notion time and time again with slimmer frames and cups ranging from a perky A to a full C. Hugh Hefner once said in an interview in Cosmopolitan magazine, that regardless of size, he considers the Asian breast to be the most beautiful because of its symmetry and round shape. It's hard to dispute the taste of a famous man who is undoubtedly an authority on breasts. And he dosen't have an Asian fetish either.
AFs don't have small eyes. AF eyes are wide set and have a lot of space between eyebrow to lashline regardless of existence of crease. That space alone is universally recognized as a sign of beauty and beautiful bone structure. That doesn't conform to your whitewashed view but it's true.
AFs short? I don't think so. Countless AFs tower over everyone. As for petiteness, short non-Asian females are just as numerous as AFs. Generally, AFs are considered very pretty because of cuter faces and well-proportioned bodies size for size.
I'm married to an AM so there's no reason for me to malign AMs. I didn't assign those physical attributes, i.e., scrawny, squat, muscle bound to all AMs. They were true of only the AMs I saw: Ugly. Accept my experiences for what they are: fact. Do you have such a special bond with those pesky males, that you have a special need to defend their looks? Your imagination is overworked if you think I using stereotypical words. Because I grew up with Asians, I don't have stereotypes of them and never even heard of the "small dick" stereotype until I visited Goldsea.
Since you're so concerned with the factual descriptions of AMs, I suppose you had a problem with the unflattering mug shots and press coverage of Charles Ng? Even Goldsea has its very own coverage of him in the Features section. That's even worse isn't it? You should put things into perspective and get help to get rid of the paranoia haunting you.
concerned AF married to an AM
Thursday, March 28, 2002 at 06:41:31 (PST)
This is to Puzzled Guy,
I think you are referring to some scenarios in Japan. The reason behind this, and this is from my Japanese friends, that at times, it is fashionable to have a black boyfriend on your arms. It's just a matter of pop culture.
Of course, there are exceptions where asian/black couples do hit if off. Just like any others.
concerned AM
Thursday, March 28, 2002 at 06:20:50 (PST)
Phil,
Plain AFs with dorky WMs? You don't win the prize for originality. Other AMs already beat you to it numerous times. So what else is new other than your bitter hatred? As for fantasizing about beating up my co-worker, unless you're very tall, strong, and muscular as well as nimble, I'm going to have to place my bet on my co-worker. Sorry.
concerned AF married to an AM
Thursday, March 28, 2002 at 06:15:13 (PST)
Whatever Matt (a.k.a the proud 2 B Azn
I'm aware that not all Asian males are like this. It's the constant exaggeration of the divide where anger and jealousy(?) is consuming people to the point where everyone beleives AFs to be these evil creatures when it's not true. People don't differentiate between AFs with AMs and AFs in interracial relationships and they shouldn't have to. You can't anyway.
concerned AF married to an AM
Thursday, March 28, 2002 at 06:11:40 (PST)
AM West Side,
rely to para #1
Sorry to disappoint you. I'm happily married to an AM. You're mistaking my experiences for bias because you cannot face the reality that people including AMs are less than perfect. I happen to live in a city with a big asian population so I know for a fact that AFs who hate AMs are rare. Also, if you're trying to pry personal info out of me, it won't work. After all, look how many people dump on Houston? Why should I provide fodder for those who wish to insult me and my hometown?
reply to para #2
Yes, those gangster types did do an about face. When I passed them, they were verbally hostile. I thought they were gone. Before I knew it, they were walking beside me. My WM co-worker was lost in thought and enjoying the sunshine. He's so tall he didn't notice the AMs trying to jostle me. I could barely keep up with his long stride. Why would he think AMs were trying to bother me? It happened in a matter of seconds so I didn't have time to react. It's not as if they followed me for a block. Because they were asian, my "fight or flight" instincts were not on alert. Sadly this was true and one of them did shove past by me. It's a good thing the situation didn't escalate out of control. That would have been fodder for gossip for months at the office. That's far worse. Most civilized people understand this mindset. I don't expect you and your bully attitude to understand this. Besides, one of them could've have pulled a gun while lying on the pavement after being knocked down while my co-worker was beating up the other two. Go ahead and get nto a fight every time you blow your temper to prove you're a man.
reply to para #3
Their appearance was ludicrous wasn't it. So embarrassing. Boys will be boys? I don't think so since it looked like one of them was trying to knock my friend down by being so close.
You might not consider me beautiful, that's your problem. I'm happy with myself and it's affirmed daily by my husband and those who meet me. Perhaps it's the content of my character that enhances my beauty?
reply to #4
Calm down. That was a true experience. Why invent positives about those AMs if there were none? The AF was pretty and the WM handsome. The husband was equally handsome. Just because AMs can be just as hostile as other races when it comes to interracial dating, that doesn't make it right. The AF was perfectly capable of standing up for herself. I was sitting far enough away to see what was happening but not close enough to just walk over to those AMs without causing a scene. Imagine Asians arguing in front of whites. That AF wouldn't have appreciated it. Why give whites the satisfaction? Most Asians understand this. Next time, don't be so quick to criticize me when AMs never have anything positive to say about AFs, only negative.
reply to your conclusion
Sorry to disappoint you again. I love my husband and have no desire to cheat on him. Maybe you've been cheated on since you sound like such a loser. It's guys like you who wish to make permanent any perceived divisions. FAce it, your issues are yours and yours alone and self-induced. Instead of getting all worked up over nothing, go chat up loose and tight chicks and don't wait for Hollywood role models.
concerned AF married to an AM
Thursday, March 28, 2002 at 06:07:54 (PST)
Just like you I could be lying,
No, it's not a cheap shot. I know it sounds unbelievable but those instances were true. It's in my best interest to post what I did so that people would stop encouraging anger and hostility towards AFs. People don't differentiate between AFs with AMs and AFs with WMs and they shouldn't have to. It didn't matter to those AMs who were doing the harrassing and it doesn't matter to the people here. I don't want a repeat of what happened. Question. Why are AMs interested in AFs and the gender divide when they have nothing positive to say about AFs?
concerned AF married to an AM
Thursday, March 28, 2002 at 05:40:53 (PST)
My new boss is this balding white guy who has a young asian FOB wife. Anyways, the guy doesn't seem to like me for some reason. I suspect the reason is that I'm taller than he is, better looking and still have my hair...who knows. His Fobby wife sometimes comes into the store and says hi to all the white employees.. except me: the one asian guy (and non white guy). What a joke! I get a big crack out of these two everytime I see them. There is definately something warped about the AF/WM dynamic when a confident asian guy is near. I feel a very weird/cold vibe from both sides even though I try to be social and cool to them. Very odd.
Of interest:
I was talking to this guy (my boss) a few days ago about Denzil Washington and his movie "Training Day". The guy says he was glad when Denzil's character was shot in the end of the movie...He says Denzil Washington always plays the same type of roles and is a one-demensional actor. I asked this guy how DW's roles in Glory, Crimson Tides, Pelican Brief, Bone Collector, Soldier's Story or Training are similair? Of course the idiot had no answer. Racist bastard.
Flyer Guy
Thursday, March 28, 2002 at 04:09:36 (PST)
To: all readers irritated by “concerned AF married to an AM” and “streetsmart Korean AF”
Why are you angry at them? Take a step back. Just look at them. I know, it’s so tempting to just slice their posts into pieces. But at best, how much of a victory is it to out wit the mentally challenged? And at worst, how embarrassing is it to be sucked into the trap of bitterness?
I argue that their existence is very important. They live to serve a very important purpose: they remind us to appreciate that we are not like them – bitter, shallow, unintelligent – and they remind us to appreciate others who are not like them as well.
So next time you are greeted by these people in their unique way, remember to smile and show them compassion. Without stupidity, how can we appreciate intelligence? Without bitterness, how can we appreciate love?
Repost
Thursday, March 28, 2002 at 02:53:26 (PST)
Matt Richardson:
I said, "Yes, the asian features are less attractive than the white features b/c they do not conform to the today's standard of beauty."
You replied, "I find it interesting that you said "the" asian features, because that's not really what I asked."
I'm VERY glad you've noticed this...and there’s reasons for what I said. Let me answer your other questions first.
"do you find YOUR asian features less attractive than the white features of a white women? Do you think YOU are less attractive because of your asian features? Do you think you would be more attractive with different colored eyes, eyes without the epicanthic fold, or a more narrow, pointier nose?"
NO, I do not feel less attractive b/c of my asian features, nor do I have desires to look white.
"Also, since you think white features are more attractuve than asian features (especially on men)..."
No, I NEVER said "I" thought white features were more attractive than asians.
"...would you think of your future son (with a white man) as less attractive if he inherited more of your asian features..."
I've answer this exact question already on a previous posting. Should I refresh your memory? My answer to your question, again is NO. Why? B/c MY idea of beauty does NOT conform to today's standards. In general, I find bi-racial children more attractive b/c they possess a unique look. And beauty to me is a one-of-a-kind look...not a 'white' look or an 'asian' look.
So why did I make this comment --"Yes, the asian features are less attractive than the white features b/c they do not conform to the today's standard of beauty."
Take another look at this statement..you'll realize my reasons were not about asians being 'ugly' or white being 'pretty' (there are as many ugly WF as there are ugly AF..and pretty WF as there are pretty AF)...it was about an inability of AF to conform to a STANDARD of beauty. I must add...many WF also can not conform to these standards, even though the standard is white. I've noticed a lot of AF have gotten plastic surgery...and I believe they were trying to enhance their appearance to look in accordance to the standard of beauty...NOT b/c they possess self-hate, or desire to look white.
"what does this say about the way you view yourself and your race?"
It saids that I could care less how my appearance compares to others (whether it is a WF, AF, BF, or LF). I understand my worth is not based on something as superficial as physical appearance.
I find it very interesting how you have seemingly avoided all of my questions. Are you having trouble acknowledging something? Let's try again...I guess if you still do not respond, we could assume that you have no rebuttals.
1) If you believe AF possess self-hatred b/c certain asian ethnic features are deemed as unattractive, could you dare say that WF and WM possess self-hatred b/c many have attempted to darkening their ethnically pale skin? Could you also say that BF possess self-hatred b/c almost all wear wigs and weaves to conceal their ethnically nappy hair?
2) You have been asking alot of questions about why AF date WM...almost sounds like you're complaining about it. We know that males are typically the pursuer, and WM are typically more agressive in the dating arena...my question for you is -- why are there more percentage of WM seeking out AF today, than any other time in history?
3) You've said that your experiences with AF have been (negatively)consistent, and your friends agree to it as well. On the other hand, some of us have never encountered that many 'sell-outs' as you have. The question is...could it be possible that you are doing something to attract this type to you?
4) Many times, you have tried to compare WF to AF. The only similarity WF and AF have is the female gender. AF and WF are exposed to different cultures, raised in different environment, perceived by society in different ways, physically look different, etc. It seems like you have labeled AF to be a certain way in your mind, yet you have neglected to question these other issues. If we are comparing AF with WF, wouldnt it be logical to also examine these other factors?
5) You believed that AF perceive their almond shaped eyes as unattractive, therefore they would not be attracted to AM b/c they too have the same eyes. My question for you is...do you believe appearance or security is more important to females in a relationship? How do you explain the many 'pretty AF with ugly WM' cases? How do you explain the many cases of drop-dead gorgeous women with unattractive wealthy men?
6) I am not denying that those AF who exclusively date WM while despising asians have serious issues. But can you accept that WM pursuing AF (for sexual pursuits) have also greatly contributed to the high AF outmarriage rate? Why or why not? I think these reasons are worth exploring.
be
Thursday, March 28, 2002 at 02:18:13 (PST)
This is in response to "Asian Male":
When I said:
""Especially considering that most of these asian women have closer cultural
ties with asian men, many if not most grew up around other asian families in their neighborhood, why do you see this behavior among asian women and not white women? Why do 40% of asian women marry outside their race, and why almost always only to white men? This versus only 5% of white women who marry outside their race."
You said in response:
"I will now ask the same question of another group, Lebanese American females, which no one ever asks: Especially considering that most of these Lebanese women have closer cultural ties with Lebanese men, many if not most grew up around other Arab families (eg. Lawrence, MA, Peoria, IL or Dearborn, MI) in their neighborhood, why do you see this behavior among Lebanese women and not white women? Why do 40% of Lebanese women marry outside their race (Arab), and why almost always only to white men? This versus only 5% of white women who marry outside their race. Is it because the Lebanese women are considered white, that their culture does not matter."
You make an interesting point, however your argument is flawed. The reason why it is not as much of an issue with Lebanese women IS because their ethnic features are VERY CLOSE to that of whites- they look white for all intensive purposes. This is in stark contrast to asian women, who look VERY different than whites with different skin color, very different eye shape, nose shape, and build. In addition, there is MUCH less of a cultural difference with Lebanese women since a very large percentage of Lebanese people are Christian. You cannot say this of Chinese, Japanese, or Koreans. Yes, it does have to do with their physical features: since the ethnic features of the Lebanese are VERY close to that of white (European-Americans) it shows that the Lebanese women are NOT marrying outside their race out of racial self-hate or because they feel their features are less attractive than those of whites. This is in sharp contrast to asian features, which differ GREATLY from white features. This, combined the the attitude common among many asian women that white features are more attractive than asian features, seals my argument.
Matt Richardson
meme0114@yahoo.com
Thursday, March 28, 2002 at 00:09:44 (PST)
This is in response to "be":
You said:
"This works both ways..so let me ask you...why are so many white men appeal to asian women? I have came across several white men who REFUSE to date any one other than asian women..how do you explain the reasons for the increasing percentage of white men exclusively dating asian women?"
First of all, please show me the stats that indicate that the percentage of white men dating asian women is increasing. As for the reasons why white men may EXCLUSIVELY DATE asian women, here's what I've found:
1. White men buy into the "china-doll" stereotype of asian women as exotic, subservient, sexual creatures
2. White men who feel that white women are too aggressive may feel that they will have an easier time with a more "subservient", "weaker" asian woman (stereotypes at work again)
3. White men who prefer ultra-petite women may go to asian women (again a stereotype, although asian women are shorter on average)
4. White men who strike out with white women may go to asian women, where they are seen as more valuable because of their ethnicity than among whites
5. He has a fetish for petite, small-breasted, "innocent" women with little body-hair (much like a pedophile). This is also based on stereotypes, and is quite sick.
However, I've rarely come across a white man who ONLY dates asian women. I do know one or two, but they have dated and do continue to date white women and women of other races. Mostly it is a fetish among white men, and you will rarely find a case of self-hatred. Show me a white man who dates asian men because he:
- feels his eyes are unattractive and wishes he had asian eyes
- feels his nose is too narrow and pointy and wants an asian nose
- hates his white skin and wants asian skin
- hates his blonde/brown hair color and wants black hair
- feels his children will be more attractive with an asian woman than with a white one
This just doesn't exist among white men, and yet is seems to be anattitude quite common in asian women who date mostly white men.
You said:
"How many of those 40% of asian women were seeking white men? Funny, b/c I thought it was the other way around. Asians are typically quiet and reserved...and female (regardless of the race) enjoys being pursued. White men are known for their complacent and agressive behavior when it comes to dating. Men (all race) are typically the pursuer. Can you deny this?"
So you buy into the stereotypes when it is convenient for you- asian women are "china dolls" and quiet and reserved when it comes to dating. In actuality, you are shooting yourself in the foot with this argument because, while it is true that men are still the pursuers today, it is still the WOMAN'S CHOICE of who she picks to be her date/mate. This is a VERY IMPORTANT point. These Asian women are CHOOSING to be with white men out of all the men available to them (even though most of the men they know/meet are asian, they grew up in asian neighborhoods and went to school (esp. college) with many asians and have closer ties to their culture with asian men). Yes, white men (like any man) is the pursuer, but the woman is still the one who CHOOSES out of the pool of men, so asian women are obviously CHOOSING the white men over the asian men.
Also, if what you say holds true (complacent and aggressive are antonyms, by the way) then why don't you see more asian women with black men, since black men are typically MUCH more aggressive in the dating game than white men (or any other race of men for that matter).
You said:
"Before you all continue to bash AF...try answering these questions."
I have done just that, and I await your response to this (and the other 3 or 4 posts I've made in response to yours)
Matt Richardson
meme0114@yahoo.com
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 23:59:42 (PST)
This is in response to "be":
You said:
"Has it ever occur to you that your white male friends are attracting people of their own kind...they meet AF "sell-outs" b/c they are one too? Sorry, I cant imagine close to half of the AF population are suffering from severe inferiority complex."
The 40% percentage is straight from the census. I am not saying that all of tem are suffering from an inferiority complex, but when you take the numbers and add the attitudes of many asian women who exclusively date white people, stereotype asian men, or want to alter their appearance to look more white (with cosmetic surgery of the eyes or nose and wearing colored contacts) then I think you have something. You obviously can't objectively determine the percentage of asian women who feel this way because such a survey will never be conducted, but you can oly suggest explanations based on personal experiences and see if other men agree with you. Most white men I've spoken with agree with me, and these white men DO NOT have an asian fetish because most have dated mostly white women or they date women of all races. Most asian men agree with me wholeheartedly because that is what they deal with. I think asian women are reluctant or ashamed to admit it if this is the case, or they are very detached from it if they aren't personally like that.
You said:
"Btw, none of the AF I have befriended are 'sell-outs'...yet, you and your friends have met many...how do you explain that?"
How many of your asian female friends:
- wear colored contacts?
- have gotten are are considering surgery to remove their epicanthic fold
- complain about their asian eyes or nose?
- date mostly white men
- stereotype asian men as nerdy, weak, or chauvenistic?
Please answer honestly, and give me an idea of how many friends we are talking about and if they were born here or in asian (because I am mostly referring to asian women born in the USA)
Matt Richardson
meme0114@yahoo.com
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 23:36:56 (PST)
This is in response to "Indian girl":
You said:
"And in many countries of the world including Asia white standard of beauty is the norm. Most Miss Indias look like Europeans"
I disagree with this- my best friend is an Indian American (born in the US) and he has exposed me to various Bollywood films and Indian culture. While it is true that fair skin is considered more attractive in India and a large percentage of Bollywood film stars have fair skin and wear colored contacts, I would not say that the Miss Indias look Europeans. For example, Aishwarya Rai is a South Indian with classical Indian features (very large, almond-shaped, brown eyes, full lips with a unique shape, very finely shaped eyebrows and long eyelashes, and a nose common to Indians). There is a very large variation in the looks if Indians- some look almost Chinese, while others have very tightly-curled hair (like blacks), and others look more middle-eastern or persian. Some North Indians look white to me, and I am white! While fair skin may be preferred, it is still not white skin even though it exists among north indians, and colored eyes haven't been a big thing with the Miss Indias I've seen. The unique features of Indian women (very large, almond-shaped, brown eyes, full lips with a unique shape, finely shaped eyebrows and long eyelashes, and a delicate nose) still remain exclusive to Indian women. I've rarely if ever seen a white woman with eyes like an Indian woman, and definitely not one with naturally full lips and the naturally brown skin color (even if it is a very light brown).
Matt Richardson
meme0114@yahoo.com
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 23:24:50 (PST)
This is in response to "be":
You said:
"Okay, let's talk ETHNIC SPECIFIC as you so desire. It is "ethnic specific" for whites to have pale color skin. Many whites (males and females) desire to look tan...and in some cases, they'll do all they can to be tanned."
Yes, I've heard this argument many many times. First of all, just staying out in the sun gives white people tans. This is FAR less invasive and radical than getting cosmetic surgery on your eyes to PERMANENTLY REMOVE an ETHNIC feature. However, if you still wish to compare the two, do you think white people are trying to look black by tanning themselves? If so, they would likely want to get very deep, very dark tans, which they do not. Are white people trying to look Asian by tanning themselves? If so, they would likely apply various lotions and chemicals to change the hue of their skin to match that of Asians, which they do not. The ideal tan for white people is a golden/bronze color skin that is unattainable by most asians or blacks, although perhaps by Latinos. Your argument fails here.
You said"
"All black females have hair that can be classified as 'nappy' which is 'ethnic specific'...almost all wear wigs or weaves to conceal their real hair."
Yes, and the issue of racial self-hatred has been around for black people ever since they were emancipated-- black people were more accepted if they were mulatto, so full-black people would try to straighten their hair or bleach their skin so it would be lighter to gain this appearance. Even in modern times, black media (ebony, essence, jet, BET, and of course rap videos and hip-hop culture) portrays light-skinned black women with Caucasian features (or even hispanic, or white women) as the ideal beauty and not dark-skinned black women with black features. Black women who try to achieve this standard of beauty often wear weaves, straighten their hair, dye it blonde or red, bleach their skin, and wear colored contacts. Yes, this is a very obvious case of racial self-hatred that is acknowledged and openly discussed in the black community.
You said:
"If your theory holds true...that would makes WM, WF, BF, and AF self-haters. Can you argue against this?"
Yes. In the case of white men and women, I've debunked your tanning example. In the case of black females, this racial self-hatred issue is openly discussed and acknowledged so you are right on that one. In the case of asian females, that's what we're discusing here. As I explained before, eyes with the epicanthic fold are exclusive to Asian people (percentage-wise, there are always exceptions). If you showed me white women who were getting surgery to ADD an epicanthic fold, then I would say the same thing about them, but white women aren't doing this. You also don't see blue/green/hazel-eyed white women wearing BROWN colored contacts or dying their hair BLACK- if they did, then you would have a point there too. You say it is to conform to "today's" beauty standard, but you intentionally do not acknowledge that it is a WHITE beauty standard they are trying to conform to. Why don't you recognize this as such and why can't asian women be proud of their asian ethnic features, much as Latinos are proud of their ethnic features (brown skin, full lips, dark hair and eyes, curvaceous bodies).
When I asked:
"Again, if asian women find asian eyes to be unattractive, then will they find men with that feature attractive? NO."
You said:
"How about answering this question...what is more common...a drop-dead gorgeous woman with a devastately handsome man? or a drop-dead gorgeous woman with an extremely wealthy man?...women are attracted to security...more so than appearance."
While I find this to be partially true, physical attraction plays a large part in the initial stages of a relationship. Women are likely not going want to initiate a relationship with a man they are physically repulsed by, You can always give me Anna-Nicole Smith examples of gorgeous women with ugly/old men, but you cannot prove to me that this represents a majority of the AF/WM relationships out there. Moreover, if you are saying women value security over appearance then you are shooting yourself in the foot since Asians as a group are among the most well-educated, wealthy people in the US.
You said:
"When a person neglects to answer questions (including the ones I had for you on the last post), it is easy to assume that that person does not have legitimate responses. "
I have answered all of your questions as far as I know. I will go back and check your earlier posts to see if I've left any unanswered. This was not done intentionally. I hope you will address my questions (posted today and yesterday) as well.
Matt Richardson
meme0114@yahoo.com
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 23:05:54 (PST)
streetsmart Korean AF,
All I see in here are people taking it from one extreme to the other. Your absolutely right in saying that the majority of AM are not like this. However I do not entirely agree with what you are saying. Whether they are "whitewashed" or have some strange motive in their posts. I do not know and doubt that is the case.
IMHO I believe some posters on here have been SOLD to the idea that "asian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions" not thousands millions. It's rampant everybody!!! OMG the world is going to end tomorrow!!! Not a single one of you AM on this board including myself will EVER get the time of day from an AF! hmmm wait a minute! I've just read through a number of posts from AF saying that they would consider dating an AM.
Here's an easy solution. I know it's a new concept for some of you and it might be considered a little crazy. How about we try and be nice to AF if we want to go out with them. I heard that just might work.
whatever Matt (a.k.a. Proud 2 b Azn)
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 22:16:21 (PST)
villageidiot,
I've taken a brief look at the data and it shows me absolutely nothing. At the site listed below on page 15
http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/p20-537.pdf
On the table, the number of married Asian couples number at 1,914 the number of married Asian/White couples is 655 that's 32% of all Asians (both male and female) marry whites. It does not tell me how many AF marry WM. It simply tells me the number of AM/WF and AF/WM couples.
The older data tells me even less. For example the chart at this site
http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/race/interractab1.txt
clearly indicates that the number of Asians represented within that table is less then 1% in 1980 (the most recent account for interracial relationships for Asians). I wish I could come up with more resent statistics on this table BUT IT'S NOT EVEN AVAILABLE! The table itself is ambiguous at best, and half the data is missing. What it does show is that people from Corea, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, India, Thailand and Laos...etc backgrounds are NOT even represented. Look at the footnotes. Also based on that table it indicates that for every AM/WF couple there are 2 AF/WM couples. And it's relatively consistent from the 60's to the 80's, again sorry but the stats in the 90's are not even available.
On the chart listed at the bottom,
http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/race/interractab2.txt
for interracial couples it clearly indicates that Native Americans have the highest numbers. Second are Asians at 28.7%. Based on the 2:1 ratio of AF/WM:AM/WF relationships in the pervious example, AF/WM relationships would constitute less then 20% of interracial couples. Having said all this I agree with your statement when you said "you have the statistics. but this doesn't say anything about behind the scenes motivation of such couples". These are merely demographics and do NOT have psychographics to compare them to. So the number of AF that would NEVER date would probably be quite low.
Please look over my findings and let me know what you think.
My point is exactly what I've been trying to say all along in my pervious posts. That the gender divide amongst Asians has been severely hyped and blown out of proportion. That's why I do not agree with the statement that 40% of all AF are dating/married to WM. So in conclusion we're not the ones in...what did you call it? Denial?
Penelope,
"it explains the identity crisis b/c they're not viewed by asian males as attractive in the asian sense. it's not an entirely false statement--i've seen many examples. i lived in a predominantly white town as well--less than 1% asians. and i've seen asian girls get shunned by other asians and turn to whites. it may be a subconscious decision"
That might account for low self-esteem or at best some insecurities. However an identity crisis is an entirely different thing. People who suffer from an identity crisis are ashamed of who they are, deny their cultures, and typically try to be someone they are not...etc. I highly doubt that AM are responsible for the crisis that some AF are going through.
whatever Matt (a.k.a. Proud 2 b Azn)
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 21:55:49 (PST)
"the difficult thing is that we AM need more motivation because of frequent rejections. again this is the chicken and the egg thing because rejection makes us ask girls out less, and thus makes girls think we aren't interested, and the cycle continues till we don't know which is which. again the girls have control of the relationship. if the girl says no, what can a guy do? so if AF genuinely like AM, then smile more and don't put us down like we hear so often from AF."
Village idiot, you are an idiot! I have only heard about AFs stating that they would not dating AMs, I have NEVER had any AFs saying it to me in person.
NHB
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 21:24:17 (PST)
Village Idiot said
"we AM like to take things in more subtle ways if the girl REALLY interests us."
Ok, you are saying AMs only show "subtle interest" in a girl IF she "REALLY" interests AMs. Well, men of other races show STRONG interest in women FAR more frequently. How does an AF distinguish between AMs subtle, infrequent interest and other men' strong, frequent interest. Should AFs only respond to guys showing subtle interest? What would you do? Are you more likely to chat up a girl who has given you strong interest or someone who has given you "subtle interest"?
You also said:
" we AM probably don't like to play mind games most of the time so we don't come on "strongly" in the "booty-call!" behavior. but if an AM is interested in you and if the AF gives positive response, then you'd never known what it's like to be pursued by an AM."
So an AF should give positive response to an AM only showing "subtle interest"?
Any those AMs don't "like to play mind games", so an AF can't even be a girl and do a little playing hard to get? Maybe You think AFs should just ask AMs' phone number after AMs show "subtle interest", meanwhile ignoring aggressive men of other races willing to chat her up with conversation. LISTEN, women like confident men who would talk to them without a lot of prompting on their part. Being aggressive and open about one's sexual attractions to a girl is not being vulgar. It is being a confident man.
I think we are looking at the very cause of gender divide right here: socially inept AMs think that girls should just ask them out.
Jay
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 20:37:19 (PST)
"grammEr?"
i'm not going any further on this stupid semantics and grammAr thing. 'nuff said, move along.
"perhaps you should also tell AF how they should dress and behave"
anyway they like, as long it don't involve denigrating us AM for no reason at all. preferrably, nothing to have to do with me personally.
"I'm more interested in understanding why you were so quick at assuming that AF are easy? Did the "media brainwashing-attempts" affect you?"
let's see, behaving like airheads when they know better and much more smarter than the frat boys they're dating. yep, AF with engineering and MBA have so much more potential than to behave like airheads around WM. i seen this on my campus and around enough. it's not generalizing.
those who complain about "generalizations" (both sexes) are forgetting psychology. while generaling is bad, but for people there's the psychological factor where experience will reign higher priority when making life decisions.
back into the fray:
"Wouldn’t this classify as being non-aggressive?"
different strokes for different folks. why do people think "botty-call" behavior is aggressive or even desirable? being aggressive in dating have many manifestations according to people's own perceptions. as said before, we AM prefer to be SUBTLE (see if the caps will work here). there are a good deal number of articles on this on goldsea.com already so i'm not going to elaborate, but being aggressive has nothing to do with "booty-call" and if the AF don't realize this, i don't feel any sympathy when they get dumped by the frat boys after "hooking up."
"Call me stupid, but I'm confused. I thought you only pursue the girls that are really interested...so why are you being frequently rejected?"
so it's your reading comprehension skils that are questionable now. but i'll admit i wasn't being clear. what i meant to saypreviously is that if the girl looks and behaves in a manner that is interesting TO US ("being herself" and without consciously sending out signals that she likes the AM), and ONLY in this way we AM naturally find her attractive, THEN we'll pursue her with much gusto and passion. however, it is often the case that we AM get rejected for the lamest excuses, a la somebody who wrote prior that it us AM who aren't interesting (so how come SO MANY AM aren't interesting to AF?). you can ask any AM on this board and they'll probably tell you about the lamest excuses used to reject us.
anyhow, at least this latest round of flames have died down, i think i need to not check this particular board as frequently from now on. like i said, there's nothing but bashing BOTH DIRECTIONS. i'm too tired to respond to the negativity. yep, you don't see me respond to the latest AM bashing from tuesday/wednesday.
lovingly,
villageidiot
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 19:56:15 (PST)
"I dont know much about the Latino culture and the pressures they endure"
at last, there's hope yet for people to speak truthfully before falsely critcizing 50% of another population...
"but Latino women dont have the mass media deeming them as worthless, sexual objects...they dont have a large number of WM seeking sexual pursuits, and they do have latino men pursuing them"
obviously you're not very media aware. the list is just beginning: penelope cruise, selma hyak, etc, etc. the only thing it's much harder to realize when it's a latina since they're more "white-looking" for the most part and you'd never know like you'd readily see AF/WM.
the same villageidiot who knows nothing and cares about nothing
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 19:37:20 (PST)
AM West Side,
LOL! us gansta types are very sensitive? reminds me of westside story, oh my favorite musical. gotta go listen to some "america!"
lalala america, america, amerikkka!
villageidiot
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 19:26:18 (PST)
[Matt Richardson ,
dude I think u are reading too much into all this race stuff
who cares if some AF only date WM ..we are talking about a tiny minority of AF who only date WM anyways .It doesn't bother me simply because there are more than enough Asian women in the world who only likes to date Asian men..just like in Hong kong or japan u have girls there who likes leo or tom cruise but ask them who their ideal guy is 90% of them will say Aaron Kwok (hk singer ) and some other chinese film stars it comes a shock to some white guys but they think too much of themselves I have seen some WM in a club trying to hit on my friend who is a beautiful thai girl when she rejects him...he's like WTF? how could this be ? I am da white knight ..the king of the world the master race ..i guess it's time for the WM to face the fact they ain't all that!]
A-man,
That's Hong Kong, but we're talking about the United States here.
Last I heard, J-FOBs were flocking to White guys in droves.
I've seen WM's rejected by AF's.
But I've never seen your typical hapa hunk get rejected by an AF (at a club).
Hapa Lover!
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 16:16:32 (PST)
Villageidiot:
"hmmm, well, lets see could it be lots and lots of AM are all the same way such that AF and show interest?don't want to date AM? neglecting the 40% (or whatever) stats"
i probably shouldve made myself clearer in that i was not referring to every single AM out there but those who make those kind of assumptions. And its exactly my point that ur not all the same , therefore the reasons u get rejected by AF consequently, arent the same aswell. so basically that leaves us with all ur individual traits ie personality, looks..and as u can see, this doesnt include being asian.
"i'll save you the excuses about not being asked out by AM and that's why some AF date WM, because in this day and age with "women's liberation," girls can just as well ask guys out."
Course girls can ask out guys, and i dont knw about u but it happens quite abit. as for 'womens liberation' and we're in the 21st century thing...i doubt it'd make too mcuh of a difference in a girls who's shy or whatever. In the end EVEry thing comes down to the fact that no ones the same. Some girls may date a white guy cos she just likes him, or not date an asian guy cos she doesnt. U can call it a coincidence but who can tell.
ps. i am not an 'AM basher' and i dont hate u guys for being asian, i hate u guys [who do] for thinkin we're 'sell outs' blaH etc..so quit thinkin it. Or at least quit thinking we all are.
Elizabeth
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 16:08:58 (PST)
[Where in the US do you live and how old are you? It seems to me that, having visited this board from time to time, that many people say that the amount of asian girls that date white guys exclusively (and have this mentality as such) differ from state to state or location to location. For instance, in state x where the concentration of asians is small compared to the white population, girls naturally date white guys just because they're the only ones there, and here the media portrays you more as desirable rather than asian men, blah blah. (i say state x because i have no clue because i'm chinese australian, and live in sydney) To me i guess these are pretty bad excuses for pretending to have some respect for the asian culture when ppl like this really have none, but i guess we have to allow for these people...because they do exist]
kate,
Could it be that there is a larger concentration of "white-washed" Asians in the U.S. than Australia?
After all, aren't much of the Asian population in Aussie the conservative Hong Kong FOB types, who don't outmarry as frequently as those w/ origins in other Asian countries?
Jay... the hapa who knows
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 15:51:10 (PST)
[Asian females, or those i know of, including myself, are nothing BUT proud about where theyre from and who they are. people have different preferences and u should try harder to distinguish this from the fact that if you've never dated someone ur own race, ur automatically assumed prejudice. You're right to not wnat to date someone whose only datin u cos ur white. But if you're gonna assume every asn woman whose askin u out is doing so cos of ur skin colour you're the one with issues, so dont bang on about us being stereotypical of our own race when you're bein stereotypical of us.]
s.vietnamese female who thinks ppl should quit chattin out of their ASs,
Matt Richardson makes many valid points for a large segment of Asian women of varying ethnicities. His observations may just not apply as much to Korean and Vietnamese females like yourselves since Koreans and Viets outmarry far less than most, if all other Asian ethnic groups.
Jay... the hapa who knows
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 15:32:05 (PST)
to Ramrod and butt straight AM
"...Your post on acceptance of minorities homosexuals in this country was deleted."
So, you're one of the Eds, eh? How else would you know what a deleted message said? We normal denizens of Goldsea don't even have this opportunity to judge for ourselves, so why don't you post that deleted message just this once?
MLK
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 15:24:25 (PST)
[No, "Ramrod" isn't an Ed with a fake mustache and Ray Bans. As far as we know, none of you are. "Ramrod" is probably referring to a post that he BELIEVES was deleted after it had initially been posted and read. We only delete posts before they are published, except on rare occasions when a discussion is teleported, with notice, to a more appropriate forum. --Ed]
Huu76::
first off dont worry, I'll try to restrain myself from callin u an asswipe this time. I admit it was unfair, i totally overestimated u.
"If these cookie cutter type AF aren't aren't self haters, then explain why the "subtle" tweaks here and there. You know, kind of giving themselves the appearance they might be 1/2. Why don't they go all out and do an M.J.? I'm Chinese and I don't feel the need to get my eyes/nose/hair "fixed"."
I dont even know why im even botherin to respond cos my previous msg obviously didnt get through to u. BUt seen as tho u seem so confused in ur asswipe-like views, im gonna help u out alittle.
Dyeing ur hair, having eye surgery or cosmetic surgery whatever, is hardly the result of wanting to be white, or '1/2', and neither is it the result of hating ourselves, race etc. so for fucksake please stop with this 'whitegirlworshipping' crap. and let me remind u a large proportion of AM dye their hair also, yet why arent u off accusin them abt wanting to be white and denyin their roots and self hatin????because u all are biased and it pretty much takes the piss. BTW...gettin ur skin bleached and whatever else it was he did, is pretty far off from dyein ur hair or gettin eye surgery dont u think? You probably dont feel the need to do all this stuff cos if u havent realized, being obsessed, or into looks, is slightly more of a girl thing and has shitall to do with race.
Before u say anythin, i havent forgotten abt this bein directed to N AAF, but AFs here dye their hair also, have eye surgery also [though less common, same way as cosmetic surgery in general is less common in uk than the us]so i figured what u said applied.
"Yes, I am very ignorant. I am Chinese and my last girlfriend East Indian. You don't know how much China/India hate each other do you?"
err..well at least ur honest.
"It'd be a lot easier for you if I were "your" stereotypical AM who can't get a date huh? Sorry to disappoint you. By the way, I eat out. All the cheap crap I've seen out there has turned me off home cooking."
Thats how i knw my msg didnt go all the way through, got lost midst the emptiness perhaps.[damnz, sorry couldnt help myself]. I never stereotyped Asian males as not being able to get dates or anythin similar. What i said, and try make sure u process this one nxt time before u make accusations...was, have any of u AMs who complain about being rejected by an AF ever considered its not down to u being asian but to u as an individual. U seem so paranoid about this whole issue that i'm sure u must've been v.quick to assume that when an AF refused a date or whatever, that she's doing so cos ur asian. And obviously being 'self haters' 'whitegirlworshippers''sell outs' it's her problem and ur ego remains intact. As for ur last comment about the food, yea u kinda lost me.
Elizabeth
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 15:22:48 (PST)
concerned AF married to an AM,
So how tall and muscular is your AM husband? Were you the AF harassed in the food court by those unsightly AMs? Funny that you were so eloquent about physical unattractiveness on those AMs who harassed you. So do you yourself live up to the white standard of beauty in this country?
FOP
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 13:21:46 (PST)
be,
In one posting you say:
I don't think non-asian (white) females are threatened in any way since they embody the american white beauty standard....Also, any half-way decent looking woman of ANY race has been approached by many men in her life"
You have misunderstood...I wasnt bragging about the attention AF get. Quite honestly, I dont feel I am beautiful, and I never said I was. WF do NOT envy AF...why should they, they are the majority? However, WF do not like WM giving AF attention.
and in another you say that WFs are jealous because AFs get all the attention.
Make up your mind, which is it? Are WFs jealous or not?
PS Go get a good book on self esteem.
noone
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 12:37:58 (PST)
Puzzled Guy,
Why do Japanese women like Black men? I asked my friend this question. My Japan.F.Friend told me that she liked strong men. She did not wish to hook up with another Japan.Male because she would know him inside out after an hour of conversation (boring). So I guess they're looking for excitement. + I've heard that it is a fashionable & cool.
But let me ask you this question.
Why do other Asian girls like White guys so much? I think it has to do with cultural values. Other asian cultures place alot of value on being tall, having fair complexion, having social status and financially stable. As a result, a white person will be more attractive to them.
AMs should work harder to improve their status, work out at the gym, be more vocal/masculine, be open to interracial relationships. Win over other people with your life and successes, be balanced. If the AF does not value her own race's appearance, she will never be happy with herself. And You never want to be stuck with this type of self-hating female.
Random AM
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 11:30:38 (PST)
"hey check out the new show "the bachelor". You guessed it 2 asian girls are competing for wm! Again media has a big hand in gender divide
yes its real"
Sure, keep blaming it on the media. Look at it this way, how many AMs apply to a show like this? How many of your asian friends like to go to bar and hit on girls (of all races)? I have WM, BM, Latinos, Indian males friend who are into this sort of thing. I only know one AM who like to go to bar hitting on girls. Someone said most AMs have a more subtle (ie, shy) way of hitting on girls, do you think someone like that would do well on those dating show, do you think many AMs apply to the show? Would you? Any of your AM friends?
NHB
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 11:20:21 (PST)
Everyone wants to blame the white media, or AFs selling out for the interracial situation. How come no one talks about AMs on average are less sexually aggressive than men of other races? Some posters says AMs are moer subtle or having more style, or less high school jock like, but AFs or most females respond to men who are more aggressive, period. I think this is the main reason for interracial disparity. I have been to lots of social events, most AMs are too shy to chat up girls.
NHB
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 11:14:30 (PST)
to be,
"...if someone is already sold on the idea, why re-sell it?"
Marketing 101. The customer/contract/business that you win has already been looking for a particular product/service/term just like yours, but doesn't yet know that yours is the best. It's your job to convince them of that. For those who are truly not interested, beating them over the head is not going to get you anywhere. More globally, if you think in business terms, most folks are like sheep. If you tell them enough times that beanie babies or dot.com stocks are high-value collectibles, you will sell a gazillion of them before you are through. This won't work with some people who have other ideas of their own, but for the majority of the population, it's like herding sheep, you lose a few, but most follow the crowd that follows the herder. My bet is that a good majority of interracial relationships were chance meetings that turned out well and not a dedicated serious seeking out of a single race to date.
"...If it was that simple to solve, the gender divide wouldnt even be an issue. Your suggestion would help..but its not going to eliminate the problem. As as I have said MANY times before, many factors have contribued to the problem...that's why the solution is complicated."
You're so over-thinking this! Don't make a hard problem insurmountable. If you hit at the crux of the matter, you will find that many of the minor details fall away due to lack of supporting evidence. I always stand back and look at a problem, then take a pen and draw the stick figure within. Where the major kink is, that's the part I go after with a vengeance to correct. This is just a fun-and-games place to go and relax, have fun, and so I don't get into my working mode and think critically through this (I don't get paid for it here), but I could if you feel that you need help to work this out in your mind.
"...Being 'gorgeous' has nothing to do with 'feeling beautiful'
'gorgeousness' typically refers to physical beauty..not inner beauty. However 'attractiveness' can refer to inner beauty...but you didnt use this term."
"To be" is a mental state, not a physical state. How many physically beautiful women look at themselves in the mirror and hate what they see? To them, they are not gorgeous, they are too skinny/fat/ugly/pimply etc. The distorted views we have of ourselves shape what we are, inside and out. When you feel gorgeous, you are gorgeous. When you feel ugly, you are hideous. "Attractiveness" is an apt description of the abilities of a gorgeous person (I used the term "gorgeous" because it's so much more than simply beautiful). How can a physically beautiful woman with a hideous inner self attract anyone?
"...Are you telling me that we all look to the more 'gorgeous' people to define who we should date? Do you also look to these people to define how you should act, dress, and think?" To a great extent, we all emulate something or someone. We can't help that, we are social creatures (and that helps with Marketing 101 if you can understand the concept). That's why we look to the fashion houses to see what the latest styles are and we oggle the movie stars to see who's the hippest so we can act, dress and think like them. If you feel that you are gorgeous and can be part of the trend-setters, then do your part. The others will follow.
"...I wish you were there to guide me at age 18..you're so wise. So you're saying...we should accept that we are only a piece of ass to guys. Should we also do anything else a guy desires to please him?"
(Gasp!) And I was assuming that I was talking to an adult female past the age of 21. Does "comprehension" equate to "acceptance" in your mind? You can understand evil and prejudice and still not accept that as a part of who you are and what you do. Understanding the prepubescent male psychological mindset does not make you prone to being subjected to it, rather, it frees you from the narrow mental confines so that you can explore other venues of thoughts.
"...did I not tell you..'regardless of our past experiences, it's our responsbility to find strength within ourselves'?"
If you truly believe this, then I wouldn't have to respond to you and we'd be out there, setting the trend.
"...What are you implying? In my previous post, did I not say, "Life is unfair, but I'm not going to hate others b/c of it"? It would be helpful if you had read ALL my comments before you reply."
It would help if you didn't fluctuate from one extreme thought to another. First you say you're not going to hate others b/c of it, then you say that you resent WMs for getting promotions/more money, etc. Well, pick one and stick with it so I know how to reply. If you're going to do this wishy-washy flippety-flop thing, then I will simply not post to you in the future because you don't know what you want from life due to the fact that you can't make up your mind from one day to the next.
MLK
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 09:38:28 (PST)
to streetsmart Korean AF:
"...AMs attack AFs with an intensity and ferocity that is unwarranted.
Where do you see on Goldsea anyone attacking AMs or AMs being provoked? I lost count of all the insults and demeaning comments about AFs. I don't see any that insult AMs."
I have...maybe we're reading at different levels of comprehension.
"...When AFs stand up for themselves however rationally and reasonably, they are relentlessly attacked by AMs and are labelled AM haters."
This has never happened to me, and I can assure you, I attack just as viciously wherever I see the need.
"...Reassurances by AFs are not given any weight b/c you guys don't matter."
I know this is not true because what I have said (and I have said plenty...too much to reitterate in one timeframe) regarding this issue in the past has been very well received by the AMs on Goldsea.
"...The majority of these AM posters are not interested in AFs."
Are you nuts!?! If they weren't interested, believe me, they wouldn't have all this wounded pride and strut around parading the peacock feathers to impress the ladies. Usually, when men aren't interested, they go watch the games or hang out in the garage fixing their cars or sit at their computers writing code or something...they do not exhaust their mental capacities trying to find ways to defend themselves and reach out to AFs via Goldsea.
"...AFs who hate AMs are next to non-existent. You AFs would be better served by sticking up for yourselves instead of ass kissing and buying into their condescending theories about AFs. They don't want you."
You're right about the fact that the numbers of AFs who hate AMs are very small. But sticking up for oneself by pushing someone down is not the way to go. Agreeing with someone else's point of view is not ass kissing. If it was, then we'd all be ass kissers since we have to agree with someone at some point in our lives or risk isolation. And what "condescending theory about AFs" are you talking about? Please let me in on the big secret. Oh, and in regards to the "they don't want you" statement...I beg to differ! They may not want YOU in particular, but they sure do want AFs!!!
MLK
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 08:45:29 (PST)
Indian girl,
"Asian men themselves send a clear signal that ligher the better?"
This has more to do with cultural significance of a tan, than promoting whiteness. In Asia a great many of the population still work outdoors in manual labor. Hence, a non tan appearance represents affluence and class status of being able to stay out of the sun.
This can also be seen in USA, where a majority of the population is in the service industry and work indoors. Hence, a tan or a sunburn look among white Americans is a sign of affluence and class status of being able to afford to go outdoors for leisure. Those tanning salons pop up all over white America neighborhoods are not because whites want to be black.
AC Dropout
Wednesday, March 27, 2002 at 07:56:56 (PST)
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