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ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:05:51 PM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage isn't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
This interactive article is closed to new input.
Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
Why AM dating WF/other non-AF are NOT "losers":
Think about it. No one puts AM on a pedestal. This includes WF, BF, etc. Therefore for the AM to date them you need to have something to offer.
Meanwhile who puts WM on a pedestal? You guessed it, the AF, big time! Look, don't argue this point okay. If such wasn't the case we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place. So is it wonder why you see so many Ugly WM/AF couples?
So think again before you bash the AM who has "options". Good for the AM to look beyond the self-hating AF!
Glad to see some AM waking up to reality!
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 21:59:44 (PDT)
[24.90.169.63]
FOP:
"How many AF/WM couples vs AF/BM couples have we seen?"
There are more Asian women who date white guys, because Asians love white people. Asians, generally, try to disassociate themselves from blacks as much as possible. We're both minorities, but you're different.
Obviously, you don't have a problem with white men dating Asian women, because you didn't direct a plague remark against them; only black guys.
Some white people are very honored to have so many Asians running out of breath chasing them. As such, of course more Asian women are going to date white guys. The Asian guys chase after white men, too. I guess it's just natural.
It's actually to a point where I just don't give a damn anymore. I get a kick out of seeing all those wide grins when Asians are around white people.
There are professional African-American guys who clearly attract Asian women and women of all races. For all the Asian women and men to just have to be with white people, God bless you.
Geoff DB
GeoffDB02@aol.com
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 21:55:20 (PDT)
[172.194.88.14]
I think it's very interesting how those who seek and date non-Asian women are considered "ugly AM that AF run away from." Let's turn the table around and say that about AF who seek only WM. Now that'll funny. But if I say that I will be called "loser", "ugly" or much worse. See what's wrong with this picture people?
The who issue is that many AM are simply finding the best girlfriends for them, and due to whatever reasons, it seems like the AF is not always the best choice anymore for the AM. You don't necessarily have to be ugly or a loser to feel this way.
In fact I would have to say, most of the AM/WF with non-Asian girls are generally "better-looking" than the typical AF/WM combinations. Why? Because AM don't go for WF because he can't get an AF, usually it's his choice. The WM going for the AF? Well, let's say he likely would have an easier time.
I'm not offending. I'm just telling it like it really is. Of course the above situation don't to all. But please stop slamming the AM, just because he is waking up a bit.
Glad to see some AM waking up to reality!
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 21:53:27 (PDT)
[24.90.169.63]
Political observers
I have a question . If so many asian women date/marry outside the race in San Fransico. Where do the asian men go? Do they just accept being single ? Or do they somehow manage to find someone?
Just like to know
Korean boy
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 21:17:36 (PDT)
[24.199.65.228]
"I probably am a pretty ugly looking guy. But as far as Asian girls running away, I can't say I really care, since I never had much inclination to approach them."
As you're a self-professed ugly man who has never approached Asian girls, any points you've made about them have thereby become null and void.
Look in the mirror, fool
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 20:53:53 (PDT)
[64.130.204.9]
To: Deng Ai
“Huh? If huu76 is saying he isn't attracted to AFs and many AFs say they aren't attracted to AMs, doesn't that DEMONSTRATE a AA gender divide??
We know this is a lie. Everyone can find someone attractive in any race. The gender divide you’re seeing here has nothing to do with attractiveness. It’s simply some Asian men who will never validate Asian women, and some Asian women who will never validate Asian men. There are Asians of the opposite gender they are attracted to. They’ll just never admit it. They tell you the good sounding reason (they’re not attracted to all Asian men/women) when the real reason lies beneath (they don’t give any validation to Asian men/women).
Repost
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 20:43:27 (PDT)
[66.92.1.200]
Huh? Gone two days and suddently there's some "Help Huu get an AF aid project" going on.
Believe me, if I really, really, really wanted one, I can get one. Whether it's the materialistic skank or an actual nice one.
I just have the problem of lumping them all into the former.
If you have an initial positive outlook on someone, and everyday you see them do stuff that makes you seeem/feel/look worth less than you are, eventually you have a negative outlook on them.
As I've mentioned before, school really changed my outlook.
By the way, to any who care. The other day when I was in Toronto, I actually (for the first time ever) saw more AM/non-AF pairings than AF/WM couples. Goes to show you that my theory that AFs will eventually get left in the dust is coming to fruition.
huu76
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 20:24:52 (PDT)
[64.231.96.20]
Hank Lewis,
"If two guys are identical as far as education, income, personality, attractiveness, etc. in a woman's eyes other than that one is Asian and one is Caucasian, then ALL ELSE (other than their ethnicity) IS EQUAL as far as she is concerned."
My original comment Take 2 :-)
If one is an Asian, there is more than one thing that's different from a Caucasian ... just because of the fact that one of them is Asian will have cultural differences and can't have "ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL." ... I think what you are saying is an impossibility ...
What I was saying is that if the ethnicity is different, the attitude will be different which means the personality will be different, the look will be different(not ethnicity here ... but I assume you also mean race when you say ethnicity) which means the attractiveness will also be different ... oh well, I don't really care ...
cantreallyrelate
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 20:21:12 (PDT)
[66.53.78.38]
Deng Ai,
"Eurocentric standards of beauty or just beauty?"
-not a standard, just a fashion. Not to mention some really weird fashion of primitive stoneage peoples in the rainforests, from deformed skull to blackened teeth and elongated necks, or the crippled feet which were once a Chinese fashion.
Common people still like their own race best. Those sticking to fashions are just snobs or wannabe-snobs.
rare stuff
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 15:06:43 (PDT)
[62.158.89.26]
Geoff DB,
You'd be surprised how well people hide behind their facades. Everyone does it; your mailman, your gf, your mother, the President. My attitude NEVER shows through. ;) And btw, I AM a very handsome guy. What do you want me to do? Lay off the Hatorade, guy.
FOP,
Now that you've gotten off the plane, you can wash off the years of sexually frustrated chumpness that is so ingrained into Asians in Asia (I go there on business and for pleasure/family). Your attitude is PRECISELY what I am talking about. Women need a nice guy - a stable guy, to survive (for emotional, sometimes financial support), but for romance and adventure they need a good dose of the "bad boy". One is expected by society and (supposedly) women to be the good guy. This brings up the one immutable truth in relationships and romance, which is that women have NO FUCKING IDEA what they want. There. I said it. They claim to want a nice guy but their panties get wet around the bad-boy bruisers. Now, how to solve the dilemma?
No, you don't have to have tattoos on your arm or a string of police arrests on your record. No need to hit the bong just to show off. There is no need for that illegal shit.
Women like bad boys because they represent excitement and FUN FUN FUN. Older more mature women do not care as much about this (but it doesnt mean they dont care about it at all -- mature women will also want unpredictable, creative behavior from you from time to time right til the end... it just makes relationships fun.), but younger women (the women my age - 20s) need (notice I said NEED) some regular instability and excitement. The smell of the leather seats in his new BMW, the speed, his unkempt hair, slick dress pants, ripped jeans and masculine physique will make her melt.
No pocket protectors or bad posture, please. Even the supposedly "straight arrow"-type Asian women from Asia get weak-kneed around me b/c I know how to work my bad-boy persona when it is appropriate.
I am not a huge hulking mass of muscle. Sheer physicality alone will not get most women. Nor am the baddest gangbanger this side of the Pacific. I have a very nice job and the associated perks. I pay my taxes, and I don't do drugs. But on the other hand, I make no excuses for my masculine advances. I make eye contact with women and smile, I grab their asses when I'm on a date that gets flirty and amorous(make sure they WANT to flirt with you... otherwise they will clock you ;P ). I can dance. I'm NOT afraid to go in for the kiss. I look 'really f***ing cute' (according to one good looking woman friend). I have a nice ride.
I am a true playa in the sense that I don't play-and-tell. People think I'm this total straight arrow type of guy, just a bit exuberant and flashy (hey -- thas not a crime, is it?).
In a sense, I am a straight arrow because I am monogamous when committed, and generally do not disrespect women unless they disrespect me (Believe me, there are a lot of insolent little bitches/manipulators out there. If you don't believe me you are one naive dumbass. Don't come crying to me when you get played.). But I have another side to me that women generally are drawn to. Women are pleasantly shocked by my fun demeanor and cheeky audacity when they are out with me.
In other words, it's best to have the best of both worlds. Do not be a spinelss door mat. Be a f***ing man, be daring - women will love you for it. Be considerate and respectful, but stand your ground. I get mine, and you should too.
Handsome Playboy
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 13:01:36 (PDT)
[128.253.186.46]
Hank Lewis,
you wrote
"after my third date with Julie, it would have been impossible (probability less than 1%)."
What's that song from the movie south pacific? "some enchanted evening"
The third date did it for you but for some of us guys it's like after the first date.
Political Observer
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 12:01:23 (PDT)
[167.230.38.7]
FOP,
you wrote to Geoff DB
"Basically what I tried to say was there weren't as many Asian women who would date black guys as those who would date white guys."
Basically that's not what you said. You said that asian women would run from black guys like they had a plague. You said this so that white guys and AF would chuckle and so that asian men could pump their chest out, and lastly so that african american men would be embarassed and feel demoralized and not attempt to date asian women.
That was your intent. That's what you talk about in the privacy of your home.
You should lower your racist tone and learn how to act civilized.
Political Observer
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 11:54:34 (PDT)
[167.230.38.7]
Hank Lewis wrote:
"I didn't say it was a no-brainer, I said "highest probability.""
Later he wrote:
"I will concede that if it were before our third date, it would be possible (40% chance) for a Caucasian woman who was Julie's equal in every way other than ethnicity to get my attention on some level and make me reconsider."
How does 40% translate to "highest probability"? 40% means more unlikely than likely.
"Does that make my answer any clearer"
No, I am afraid "highest probability" still does not reconcile with 40%.
Deng Ai
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 11:17:47 (PDT)
[198.6.73.7]
Hank Lewis wrote:
"If two guys are identical as far as education, income, personality, attractiveness, etc. in a woman's eyes other than that one is Asian and one is Caucasian, then ALL ELSE (other than their ethnicity) IS EQUAL as far as she is concerned."
Hank Lewis, how do you know this? You are neither a woman nor Asian... do you know this because your wife told you so? As far as I am concerned, action speak louder than words, which means you are either wrong, or WMs in general are superior in the above mentioned departments over AMs.
Deng Ai
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 11:00:19 (PDT)
[198.6.73.7]
Political Observer wrote:
"Dammit what a cheap shot. Why pick on a guy like Hank who goes out of his way to show his support for asian guys."
Cheap shot? What was so cheap about it? I am saying his argument that race does not matter to Asian women if all else is the same is not valid. It's not even valid for him as a WM. The point is, race does matter, and it especially matter to AFs. I can appreciate his "support for Asian guys", but I am not sure he knows what he is talking about when it comes to the AA gender divide.
"Actually I would expect a comment from someone like you. You and I have disagreed before so I'm not surprised."
Have I taken cheap shots at you before? Or do you mean the mere act of disagreement is a "cheap shot"?
Deng Ai
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 10:51:13 (PDT)
[198.6.73.7]
Deng Ai,
"Your IF is the exact opposite of reality."
So are you stating huu76 is not real. Or do you not acknowledge the reality huu76 occupies.
Imaginary space with imaginary numbers do satisfy the condition mathematical group and can be operated on.
AC Dropout
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 10:34:00 (PDT)
[24.90.98.143]
Deng Ai,
All asain activitist groups in the USA are aware of the non-participation of asians in the census. Just quick web search of "census" "asian" "2000" and you will see the publication which my claims are based on.
They usually they compare other government data like real estate tax, local census, public school records, etc.
Also you are looking at the cohabitation result. Which I pointed to another named Matt. The definition for cohabitation is over 16 of opposite sex in the same residence. So a live in nurse or maid would be caputured as a IR relationship by definition. Lots AF maids in nurses in IR.
"How do you know non-Asians also don't participate in the census at a similar rate?"
Good question. But since other ethnic groups don't make a stink about the issue. I assume they are fine about the results.
"Since when did filling out forms become a male dominated activity?"
It's an arbitary assumption. That why it is a qualified statement "upto 25%."
PS - So far all I've seen are AM poster stating that they are dating non-AF. Or non-AF stating they want to date an AM. I have yet seen the post of an AF who stated she wants to only date non-AM yet.
AC Dropout
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 10:31:00 (PDT)
[24.90.98.143]
Maybe he thinks that non-Asian women are not good enough for any Asian man...that only Asian women fit this bill.
Speaking of my post, notice that it was posted the same day as his?
Read already.
No need to get in a bind
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 09:48:42 (PDT)
[208.48.177.3]
"If you're so good, how come all the Asian girls are fleeing from you?"
What are you some kind of a freak. What makes you think Asians girls are running away from me. You really do have a skewed perception I'm afraid. The whole point that i'm making is that the AM should get the "best" he can, even if that means seeking non-AF. Listen, just because I date outside of my own race does not make me a loser. It's the reasons behind such actions that dictate one's well-being. I do not date non-AF because I despise my own kind, like many AFs that everyone is talking about.
And also I don't mean to be cocky. I simply needed to make a point. The point being, "please don't consider all of us AM losers, etc." My apologies if that had offended you.
NYC AM
Thursday, September 05, 2002 at 08:35:28 (PDT)
[208.252.30.254]
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