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ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:05:50 PM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage isn't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
This interactive article is closed to new input.
Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
justagirl:
." Who wants to date Lucy Liu if you can date Nicole Kidman? Or Zhang Ziyi? Notice even these famous AF are not having much success with dating other famous WM? "
intriguing.
But Lucy Liu HARDLY represents beautiful women of asian race. so i think its a lame comparision... It's like comparing Gong Li' s beauty to that of say,...Oprah Winfrey , ops no rosie O donnel.
at least shangziyi is an image of how a good looking af should be. And who knows if she is atractive to white actors ? she doesn't speak English in the first place. and zhanggziyi herself said she's always been attracted to chinese men, especially the traditional type or the manly tpe like the guy who plays opposite her in CTHD.
from my observation, most of the AF who go for uniquely wm are not attractive. while the really hot and beautiful ones go for AM. Lucy Liu and BAi Ling only go for wms, but i hardly knows a beautiful AF going out of her way to draw WM"s attention. Even if some hook up w/ WM they did that not because they have athing for WM, or they wouldn't be w/ the WM for a long time.Christy Chung left her white husband a few years ago and now she's w/ an asian actor.. and maggie cheung just split w/ Olivier Assayas.she dump him for TOney Leung haha...
hm... I knows actress might not be a good example but almost every beautiful /smart AF I know married to AM.as.
the beautiful and hot asian female still go for asian guys. which mean AM get the cream of the crop of AF, while those sellouts who look ONLY for white guys are leftover type. besides this, lots of AW who hook up w/ WM not because they only like whites, they just in love and that's it! so the number number of sellout AF are actually not as high as you think. and those sellouts usually are the leftover of High class AF. you guys shouldn' be bitter anymore.
i think you're a wf, or bf? soory that's pretty beyond the point.
justanother AF
Monday, September 09, 2002 at 09:15:04 (PDT)
[203.162.19.220]
FOP,
you were trying to be a smartass at the expense of black dudes. If you had a bunch of ignorant mean spirited black guys coming on here picking on asians, I'd give them grief too cause it just ain't right to stir up racist BS.
As far as interracial dating. Asian guys and women mostly prefer to marry their own. However there's no way to deny that asian women commit a full court press for white guys. Everyone knows it. I only blame them for not being more selective and being too eager to go after the first white guy they see.
Political Observer
Monday, September 09, 2002 at 08:58:35 (PDT)
[167.230.38.7]
Deng Ai,
Search harder, it was made by an activitist group in SF. I'm not here to work for you. You're here to learn from me.
AC Dropout
Monday, September 09, 2002 at 08:33:08 (PDT)
[24.90.98.143]
I been reading everybody posts. I never visited San Francisco so I don't really know how divided the gender division is. I lived in NYC all my life. I still see a fair number of asian couples. I spoke to asian women and at least the one's I talked to prefer asian men. I do see more asian women that date/marry outside. But, I see a growing number of asian men that are also dating/marry outside the race.
I do agree with Deng Ai that we do have a gender division. But, I wouldn't go so far and think MOST asian women sell out. Maybe in San Francisco it happens. But NYC is not too bad. Dating in itself is tough for everybody. My thing is that asian men should just find someone good for them. Just because your asian does not mean that you will connect to another asian person. I think if had more asian men dating outside the race then the disparity in inter-racial dating will close. But, the new problem will be what is wrong with just dating another asian person. Guys like Deng Ai and Political Observer blame it on asian women for selling out and this forces asian men to look else where. Perhaps that maybe true. But, how can we change these asian women to go out with asian men? I don't have an answer to that. But, I do agree that asian men do have a raw deal. I actually know this one asian guy that moved to another country to improve his dating life. I think asian men should form a support group. It is good to know that you are not alone in this struggle. I think it is more important that asian men know that we have a community which should support each other and perhaps if grow in bigger numbers make America pay attention to our raw deal.
Korean boy
Monday, September 09, 2002 at 06:40:45 (PDT)
[24.199.65.228]
No offense to anyone,
I have turned down one marriage proposal (Persian) and one relationship (Guatemalan). I asked myself why I did that? I don't know? The girls were beautiful and young and they really were serious.
But, at that time, I still wasn't clear if I'd be able to explore more and find a real AF.
It's been some years now and just yesterday, I got a girl's number from El Salvador and my penfriends have asked me to visit them in Armenia (where they said they have found me couple girls who are interested in me).
I still don't know...
I really worry if I can be able to pass down some Asian and Chinese culture to my kids if they are mixed. But, the women from these races are some of the most warm women I have ever met and gotten along with. I know something can be worked out.
If I do decide to marry out, I would not parade my future wife in front of Latino, Persian or Armenian men like many of the guys (esp. WM) that AF are married or dating with. I love my woman and her family too much to do that.
From this day onward, I make a commitment to tell all my guy friends (of all Asian ethnicities) to give up on AF. I will convince them with all my best. Yet, I will try to also convince them to raise their kids with Asian values, humbleness and pride no matter whom they marry with.
Whether we all intermarry or not, in the end it will still be the AM who are the culture bearers. We have no other choice. Our parents and forefathers had sacrificed a lot to put us where we are today. I can never forget that. I want to continue their traditions. It is not shameful.
Chinese-American
Monday, September 09, 2002 at 02:14:58 (PDT)
[64.130.235.33]
There is no gender divide...
AFs are not more divided from AMs than AFs are divided from other AFs...
AMs are not anymore divided from AFs than they are from other whitewashed AMs...
Any of what might seem to be a "division of gender" is actually just division that can occure between two people that are not on the same page as far as self-awareness goes...
A whitewashed Asian individual will be divided from confident Asian individuals regardless of gender...
Gender is not the root of the division...
For example...a white washed Asian girl...she will likely to prefer White female friends over Asian female friends...just as much as she would prefer white boyfriends over Asian boyfriends...
Actually...gender might actually be something that can reduce the amount of division between Asians(caused by disparity in pride in one's own culture)...because I feel that there definitely is a greater likelihood of sexual attraction between people of the same race...
For example...this AF(me) feels a sense of familiarness to AMs that is only peculiar to AMs....
This familiarness makes me feel really "at home"...it does not necessarily mean that the AMs are better looking because alot of times WMs and BMs can be even better looking...but I just get all happy and want to smile everytime I see an Asian guy...I don't know why because afterwards I would be like "why am I smiling like an idiot.."
But anyways...
I admit to my sins...I used to be a typically whitewashed girl...but now I cannot help but only finding Asian guys attractive...
I feel that before...some of my whitewashedness was in a sense..."Curiosity"...not I am not curious anymore...I want to go back to what I have always liked...
I feel that any whitewashedness from any Asian individuals is simply just a "stage"...and they will eventually come out of it...
Except that some take longer than others...
I am not defining AFs who are really in love with WMs or BMs to be whitewashed...if they are really in love with them...
I am talking about those who consciously rule out AMs thinking that WMs are better...
I declare myself AM washed now....
Although I am not really AM washed because I do not purposely rule out the chance of liking other races...
However right now I cannot stop liking AMs...so I find them really attractive...
AF:Severely not divided from AMs...
Monday, September 09, 2002 at 00:00:44 (PDT)
[67.241.61.146]
Hank Lewis,
You are right on the mark. Yes, it's true that monoethnic relations among Asians has been increasing, both numerically and as a percentage. It's just that transethnic ethnic couples are more noticeable and eye-catching.
Yes, WM/AF are most numerous, and BM/WF are second. However, AM/WF are catching up to BM/WF marriages. Right now, there are more BM/WF than AM/WF couples in numbers, because there are many more Blacks (13%) than Asians (4%) in America. If you look at percentages, Asian males are more likely to marry WF than Black Males. I believe AM/WF couples will continue to grow, and will be the second most prevalent couples in America within several years. This should be enough reason for AMs to stop bashing on WM/AF couples.
Asian outerracial relationships isn't restricted to Whites. Last month, as I was strolling through a park, I saw the first AM/BF couple in my entire life. They were both young and attractive.
B. Lee
Sunday, September 08, 2002 at 23:21:46 (PDT)
[207.172.11.148]
Hank Lewis,
Yes, we are of only one species. However, when you said ethnicity, that does not obviously translate to physiological difference (that's why I assume you also mean race/physical... which you did). I would not elaborate on the differences between the terms "race" and "ethnicity" -- just pick up a sociology book.
Mr. Lewis: "I could still say "all else equal other than ethnicity" and it would be appropriate."
Now, am I the only one who finds this statement peculiar/contradictory/inconsistent? If ethinicity(which includes culture and physical appearance according to Mr. Lewis) is different, that includes a LOT of things that's different ... (look at my previous reply)
Geoff DB,
Hey I agree with what you said about/to "Handsome Playboy" ... I don't know how Playboy acts in real life, but reading what he says makes me want to punch him in the face so he stops talking about how good he looks/acts. :-)
cantreallyrelate
Sunday, September 08, 2002 at 22:00:47 (PDT)
[65.58.128.190]
FOP:
"Its' not racist at the core. I did know many Asian women that would run away black men like they are plague"
I have walked into clubs and seen Asians pick up their drinks or whatever and walk away briskly from me and other black guys. It's VERY embarrassing to me. Especially, when white guys are standing around smiling with a smug look on their face. And these are not ugly African-Americans guys either. If they were ugly, then I'd understand. I've had quite a few Asians in various west coast cities tell me point blank that I'm a good looking black man, but that they are not into black men; they are into white men. All I can do is listen, try not to get angry and walk away as if nothing happened. Of course, every white guy in the club knows what transpired and they pride themselves, accordingly.
I'll disagree with you slightly, it is racist at the core. I used to think that white racism made Asians have racist feeling towards black people. I no longer hold to that belief. It's my impression that many Asian immigrants come here with those racist feelings and attach themselves to white racists as much as possible. They understand each other.
"They want to be with white women in secret. Malcom X even revealed in his autobiography that 'black men would run over sisters to chase white women'."
Oh, without a doubt. Black men LOVE white women, especially those with blond hair and blue eyes. That's why black women, generally, don't care to be anywhere near blond white women. My oldest sister has a standing threat against any white women who I would dare to date. Black guys, generally, date black woman. However, white and Asian women are very much on the radar screen.
Geoff DB
GeoffDB02@aol.com
Sunday, September 08, 2002 at 17:07:37 (PDT)
[172.195.117.243]
Political Observer:
"So you see, there are cool white guys who are not your enemies. I'm sure not all asian guys are against you either."
Oh, I know only too well. There certainly are exceptions. It just seems like the exceptions are barely noticeable at times.
Thanks again though.
Geoff DB
GeoffDB02@aol.com
Sunday, September 08, 2002 at 16:48:23 (PDT)
[172.195.117.243]
It's All Good:
Yes, I'm African-American.
Just like there are white guys who parade their Asian mates around, you also have insensitive black guys who parade their Asian girlfriends and wives around and stare down Asian guys to try to embarrass them or make some type of social statement.
"as long as they don't have that hair-on-fire, I'm-a-rebel-so-f***-you- and-btw-I'm-f***ing-your-sister look that so many black men have when they are with trophy white women."
Those guys are pricks. I'll bet you they're hollow inside and must be told their human worth.
I've dated Asian women and it's always been fun. One time I went on a date with this attractive Asian lady and we enjoyed the entire evening, including listening to a Latin jazz bad. Come to find out she was actually 20 years older than me. Asian women age very well.
Geoff DB
GeoffDB02@aol.com
Sunday, September 08, 2002 at 16:44:21 (PDT)
[172.195.117.243]
Hank Lewis:
"Wayne Brady and his wife come to mind here."
Didn't know that Wayne Brady is married to an Asian lady. Good for him. I clap my hands for the brother.
"In general when it comes to transethnic couplings of any ethnic mix, it tends to be really great or really lousy and not much in-between."
Interesting. That has also been my impression. I've seen some of the thug black guy/young asian girl couples and it's a real kick. I don't know who their matchmaker was, but I suspect it was that Ms. Cleo (sp?) character.
Curious Asian girls who venture out with these low-life guys looking for a thrill will soon learn the meanings of ADW, 187, code 3 coming at ya, and, lastly, "book 'em Danno".
Geoff DB
GeoffDB02@aol.com
Sunday, September 08, 2002 at 16:32:30 (PDT)
[172.195.117.243]
Deng Ai,
"the Saudis are probably the least fashionable people in the world":
obviously, you're talking about rich people, poor people's opinions are rarely asked. (If your link stated the contrary --I couldn't find the exact page.) Rich West Africans prefer women with white or bleached skin, but poor Nilotic nomads still prefer darker-skinned than themselves.
If the dark-skinned would have been the colonial masters the official trends were vice-versa, now.
I don't know about cars, except that cars are a symbol of prestige for snobs.
Dark skin is, as far as I can judge it, associated with manliness. (Think of the image of tanned bodybuilders, sailors etc and the fact that there are phenotypically usually more dark-skinned men than women.) Civilised females have to be pale because they shouldn't show any sign of virility so that they get symbolically subjugated by the tanned/dark-skinned male.
rare stuff
Sunday, September 08, 2002 at 15:17:18 (PDT)
[193.159.24.86]
Of all the women who live in the U.S, AFs are by far the worst type of women any AM will go for. How can an AM try to go for a woman who openly and easily sell-out her own race? I guess selling-out one's race is not a crime like Hansen selling-out his own country. Besides idolizing WMs, they have the audacity to flaunt their ugly, fat WMs in front of AMs. I guess we will have a growing population of ugly, fat hapas in the near future. I guess the AF mom will treat her son with total disrespect because he happens to be part Asian and a male. It comes down to the AFs insecurities. Imagine if the HFs and BFs sell-out at such a rate. But HFs and BFs have much more pride in their race regardless of how HMs and BMs treat them. I, for one, am not attracted to the AF's attitude and lack of physical attractiveness. I prefer tall women that have curvy bodies. If WMs want AFs, why don't they change the law and import more AFs to satisfy the WM's cravings? AFs are a hot commodity nowadays like real estate.
Jeers to AFs
Sunday, September 08, 2002 at 14:07:53 (PDT)
[66.19.195.35]
Hank Lewis wrote:
ăI never said Whites were superior to Asians in certain categories. You said it. I don't happen to agree with it.ä
There are only two choices here regarding whether AFs will choose the AM over WMs if all else were equal. Either you are right or you are wrong. The fact is, AAF outdate & outmarriage rates are astronomically high (I am not considering FOB AFs since language and cultural barriers will skew them away from interracial relationships). So, here are the two possible scenarios:
1. You are right: if all else is the same AFs will choose AMs over WMs. The high AF outdate/outmarriage rates can only suggest WMs are generally better AMs since even with the race difference handicap WMs supposedly have, AFs still choose them.
2. You are wrong: if all else is the same AFs will choose WMs over AMs. This means having a white boyfriend/husband is more important than some of the qualities you listed such as income, education, sensitivity, common interests, etc.. AMs in general have higher income, better education, lower divorce rates, lower criminal conviction rates, and as for common interests, I guess both being Asian should count for something right?
So are you right or are you wrong? Yes, you didnât say it, but the logical extension of your statement should mean you agree with it. Otherwise, your statement doesnât reconcile with the facts and reality.
Deng Ai
Sunday, September 08, 2002 at 13:05:03 (PDT)
[24.93.48.193]
Political Observer wrote:
ăHank Lewis is married to an asian woman yet he doesn't pretend like he owns the world or has gotten over on asian guys.ä
Most white guys who are married to Asian women donât have this attitude. If anything, Hank sounds like a pretty typical white guy in a WM/AF relationship.
ăHe's the type of guy who you should not try to agitate or humiliate.ä
Again, I can appreciate he is a WM who has said some positive things about AMs. But I donât see why he should be afforded the kid glove treatment just because heâs a white guy married to an AF. And besides, I have never called anyone names or resorted to personal attacks, why would you think I have humiliated him with ăcheap shotsä?
Deng Ai
Sunday, September 08, 2002 at 12:38:06 (PDT)
[24.93.48.193]
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