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ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:05:42 PM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage isn't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
This interactive article is closed to new input.
Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
To: Geoff DB
No, I don’t consider you an enemy. If I thought of you that way, I wouldn’t have wasted my time writing to you at all. You’ve made a lot of claims of being a die-hard supporter of Asians. I’m simply calling you on it. That’s all.
If there is anything in my posting that I’d like to have stick, it’s this: everyone has his or her own agenda, and sometimes the agenda is not all that pretty when exposed, so they cover it up by some other reasons in front of other people. That’s the “real reason” versus the “good sounding reason.”
That’s also why I brought up my ex-tenant - maybe you'd relate because she is black. Of course she would never claim to dislike black men – she’s black herself. So she gave all the other reasons that shined a negative light on black men, which includes you, Geoff. This is her justification for her action, even though it unfairly judges all black men, which also includes you. This is the exact symmetrical example to yours – where Asian women make blanket judgments about Asian men. The difference is what you and I do with it. I could have just sat there and listened to her and sympathize with her, like you did when your Asian women friends capped on Asian men. And maybe I’d get some as a show of my sympathy. But I didn’t. If I did, that would make me a vulture preying on your equivalent of a gender divide, wouldn’t it?
A problem for one person is an opportunity for another. The Asian Gender Divide is a problem for Asians. That’s where the opportunity lies for an outsider with a sympathetic ear. So was it really a low blow that I dealt? I’d be a vulture too if I played to the rift in your community.
Repost
Sunday, September 22, 2002 at 23:01:11 (PDT)
[66.92.1.200]
huu76:
"You're not keen on BFs?"
I'm into women of all races. My experience has been whenever a man of color dates women outside of his race, it's assumed (not by you, huu) that he's not into women of his own race. I date and feel perfectly comfortable with black, white, Asian and Hispanic. My youngest sister dates black men, exclusively. She just had to have a black man. White, Asian and Hispanic would not do. She finally found her dream black man, had a glamarous wedding (which I partly paid for) and moved out of state. It was there she found out he was gay. This, of course, is an exception, but it goes to being narrow minded. She is now divorced and dateless, because she limits her options.
My advise to Asian men and women is to go for it all. Date whoever you wish.
Whenever I have tried to restrict the race of women I date, I've always been burned in one way or another. God put us here to live with each other and to interract with other people.
Geoff DB
GeoffDB02@aol.com
Sunday, September 22, 2002 at 19:19:36 (PDT)
[172.190.146.51]
"Dude let's face it many of those southern girls are racist."
I could not have put it better.
"They don't mix with men of color except light skinned latino guys and they tend to make fun of them."
Some I know mixed with light skinned Arabs, although I do not believe it is acceptable now. The lady in Calhoun, GA turned in three moslem guys. Of course, those guys did not do their homework and went into a restaurant in a county where other than Hispanic laborers there are no non-whites.
"Asian guys might get some of their interests,"
Highly unlikely.
"but places like mississippi, louisiana, most parts of georgia, florida, tennessee, kentucky are very racists."
Southern Florida is fine but the panhandle and even Orlando is very racist and reactionary. The other places you mention are full of racists as well, but you failed to mention Arkansas and South Carolina, the home of the racist and reactionary Bob Jones Universites (Bo-Jos). When I was growing up in India, their missionaries showed up and preached against the evils of caste system, and little did I know they practice their own caste system here, ie., racism.
"Some black guys date and marry those country girls but those girls mainly mate with local boys."
A number of them marry their cousins, particularly in and around Monroe, LA and Philadelphia, MS. No wonder the academic achievement in these school districts are lowere than even some of the poorer black districts in the country. So much for white supremacy!
"In southern states people tend to know where to go and who to hang out with. Racism in southern states is not "coded" like racism in western, mid-west and eastern states. People tend to plainly speak their mind."
Agreed. Although I have not experienced much racism from whites in the Seattle area or even in Portland, OOR.
"It might be ok for some asian guys and ladies to be friends with well educated and intelligent white folk, but dating and marrying is still considered taboo."
Many would rather marry their cousins than marry outside their race.
Political
Sunday, September 22, 2002 at 14:22:50 (PDT)
[138.220.21.180]
I wonder why guys like Geoff DB, or any black or white guy, would date and marry AFs that put down their own race of men. If you think about it, that attitude is very unhealthy, and it will manifest itself into any relationship this AF is in with other non-Asian males. I don't discourage interracial dating, but if an AF exclusively dates out while disrespecting AMs, that goes against the AF's character. It is same as dating a racist. Geoff, if you were dating a WF, would you just sit there while this WF ridicules black women?
Anyways, if there are going to be more WM/AF couples getting married and having children, then it is no big deal. This is because these kids will look like Mexican and Hispanic children making this nation more latino populated.
Paradox Revisited
Sunday, September 22, 2002 at 13:30:11 (PDT)
[66.19.196.103]
To: Brother Man
I was only looking at it from a mathematical point of view. To see if there is an out-marriage rate of white women to Asian men in Hawaii, you have to get this information:
a. Total # of white female residents in Hawaii (legal age for marriage)
b. # of white female residents in Hawaii married to Asian men
Then divide b by a.
But what is the “problem statement” you are trying to solve here? Are you trying to say that Asian women are sellouts because the out-marriage rate of white women in Hawaii is under 50%? It’s not too different from saying that because Domino’s Pizza gets your order wrong 50% of the time, all Asian women are sellouts.
Repost
Sunday, September 22, 2002 at 00:11:08 (PDT)
[66.92.1.200]
To: Ronbo (Bay Area/SF)
Do you know the Borders in Emeryville? I frequent there quite often and always see Asian men with non-Asian women there. For whatever reason, it seems more prevalent in the East Bay.
Repost
Sunday, September 22, 2002 at 00:10:31 (PDT)
[66.92.1.200]
Repost:
What am I going to do with you, man?
If you keep making that much sense, you're not going to leave me much wiggle room. Didn't your mother ever teach you to leave some holes in your argument so people can evade the hard points you make? :)
OK, all joking aside.
If you only knew how much I am not your enemy; how much I admire Asian guys contributions to our country; and how much I respect watching Asian guys with Asian women. True, there are quite a few Asian women who prefer to date and marry white and black guys (mostly white guys).
What I needed to hear was embodied exactly, poignantly in your statement. I needed to hear it from the perspective of an Asian man, because I normally don't talk to Asian men like you on a social level. You have my high level of confidence in your argument. The only cheap shot you took at me was that vulture remark about me taking advantage of the AA gender divide. That was the only low blow made.
If I were attracted only to black women, the two of us wouldn't be having this discussion right now. I prefer women of all races, not just black women. Keep in mind, as a black man, I have to wait my turn for those non-black women who are "into black guys". Just like Asian guys, I have women look away from me, too. It's not easy to take.
"Anyone can tell you anything. Are you going to take everything at face value?...you’re the one who made a statement where you 'maintain' it’s the attitude of Asian men turning Asian women off"
I have to do a better job of challenging comments made about Asian guys' part in a relationship.
"...it’s not what you claim (e.g. that you try to be cool, which you keep claiming) that makes you accepted or not. It’s not even what race you are (which you bring up all the time) that entitles you friendship."
Asian guys may, obviously, see the leery expression on my face and may notice the reservation of my bodily language and get irritated or annoyed, thus inducing reticence on their part. I can understand what you're saying.
"...there’s nothing wrong with Asian women preferring non-Asian men. Just don’t blame us for their preferences. Do you understand now?"
Yea, I do. I make a point of telling Asian women that I'm not hostile towards the Asian-American community. For an Asian women who does not respect Asian guys, it would seem likely that she would only express attitude as the reason. With my strong support for Asians guys, an Asian women would feel uncomfortable directing acute racist remarks against guys of her own race.
"So before you claim to be cool with Asians, walk our walk, stop spreading false words, and stop blaming racism on everyone who disagrees with you."
I have a lot of negative baggage to deal with, too. Perhaps, individually, the more we try to make fair characterizations and generalizations, it will help us to better understand people who are not like us.
"You reap what you sow. Are you still surprised?"
Not entirely. I've got some homework to do. There's clearly a need for me to not just internalize my support for Asian guys. I need to exude it better so that you stop getting the impression that I'm your enemy.
Geoff DB
GeoffDB02@aol.com
Saturday, September 21, 2002 at 15:17:48 (PDT)
[172.193.75.205]
Ed: My fault. I'll make an extra attempt to read the topic prior to posting my comments.
TO: Proud 2 b Azn
Thanks for your response. It's been my fault to over emphasize collective reasoning and interrelations. Those are not practical expectations. I've seen some exceptional relationships between Asian women and men with African-American men and women. There's hope yet. Perhaps it will take a few more generations on either side to solve some of these poor relations. Hopefully, I'll still be alive when meaningful changes are made.
Geoff DB
GeoffDB02@aol.com
Saturday, September 21, 2002 at 14:19:56 (PDT)
[172.193.75.205]
Posted on the Chinese Male/Corean Female forum for some reason:
"I am white. I am czech. I am tired of white men. I love China. I like The Chinese. Chinese men are the most beautiful men in the world!!!!! In the Czech rep. live only 3185 The Chinese and for this reason , I am sad"
Why would a girl in the Czech Rep all her life find Chinese guys hotter then white guys?? I do understand.
Proud 2 b Azn (AM)
Friday, September 20, 2002 at 21:15:40 (PDT)
[64.228.100.143]
Geoff,
You're not keen on BFs? I wasn't aware of that. That's interesting and kind of ironic (that I never picked it up) if it's true.
Just an Observation,
Hatred is a little strong, I'd go with "dislike".
huu76
Friday, September 20, 2002 at 20:10:14 (PDT)
[64.231.98.171]
Dengi Ai,
you wrote to Geoff "And contrary to popular stereotypes, the white girls there are not at all racist... at least from my point of view."
Dude let's face it many of those southern girls are racist. They don't mix with men of color except light skinned latino guys and they tend to make fun of them. Asian guys might get some of their interests, but places like mississippi, louisiana, most parts of george, florida, tennessee, kentucky are very racists. Some black guys date and marry those country girls but those girls mainly mate with local boys.
In southern states people tend to know where to go and who to hang out with. Racism in southern states is not "coded" like racism in western, mid-west and eastern states. People tend to plainly speak their mind.
It might be ok for some asian guys and ladies to be friends with well educated and intelligent white folk, but dating and marrying is still considered taboo.
Political Observer
Friday, September 20, 2002 at 14:47:19 (PDT)
[167.230.38.7]
????:
the words she said are too unbelivable for a girl. if i were her, i would not say out loud stupidly like that.i doubt it may be a conspiracy from some anti-af folks who want to stir things up. The anoninimity on the internet has a huge disadvantage. Don't take things like that too seriously.
AF
Friday, September 20, 2002 at 11:39:19 (PDT)
[61.11.245.6]
???,
Probably because there aren't that many white people around.
AC Dropout
Friday, September 20, 2002 at 11:00:31 (PDT)
[24.90.98.143]
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