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GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:05:42 PM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage isn't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
This interactive article is closed to new input.
Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
[We've omitted posts that merely perpetuate tangential arguments. We're discussing the gender divide among Asian Americans. --Ed]
As of now, 7.1% more Asian women intermarry compared to Asian men. Likewise, 4.6% more Latina women intermarry compared to Latino men. 5.8% more Black men intermarry compared to Black women. 3.0% more White men intermarry compared to White women.
So, it is Asian Men, Latino Men, Black Women and White Women who face possible marriage shortages in California.
Considering that California's atmosphere is more open to Asians and more Asian men intermarry in this state than others, there is still a 7.1% gap. Asian men get the shortest end of the stick. Very likely, that is probably the same number of Asian men who will not or cannot find a lover unless he finds it outside the race.
I cannot even imagine how it is for Asian men and the dating situation in the other non-CA states?
We need to wake up and smell the coffee...
It is a winless struggle unless we make adjustments.
I have loved the beauty of Latina and Arab women all my life. Now, with this new insight and the numerical realities, I can try and bring that dream or fetish into reality.
Don't blame it on me. I have tried giving a shot at dating girls from my own race and culture. The thing is that there are not too many of them left that are available.
So, just let us young Asian men in USA wander into new pastures and find more greener grass.
all over the world
Wednesday, September 25, 2002 at 02:02:39 (PDT)
[64.130.235.33]
To: Brother Man
So generous of you to grant me another chance. But I’m really not sure now what I should do with this chance. You seemed to have left out your problem statement – which is why I asked you what your problem statement is in my last post to you. From what I can gather, it is one of the following two:
1. You’re saying Asian women are sellouts.
2. You want to test my math skills.
So can you stop squirming out of telling me which one is your problem statement so I can address the chance you’re granting me?
Repost
Tuesday, September 24, 2002 at 18:51:57 (PDT)
[66.92.1.200]
To: Political Observer
You have a few questions; I’ll answer them one by one.
“So repost, why does this AA gender divide exist, in your opinion, solely of course?”
I’ve posted here many times what I consider the Asian Gender Divide, and it may be different from what other people think. I believe it’s an attitude in some Asian men and some Asian women where they summarily portray Asians of the opposite gender unfairly negatively. People here use the term sellout as one who dates/marries someone outside of his or her race. But I believe that sellout is an attitude – an Asian person who is with a non-Asian is not necessarily a sellout, and an Asian person who is with another Asian person is not necessarily not a sellout.
How these people get to this point is probably very personal to them – slighted by a partner, peer influence, reading these posts on Goldsea, you name it. But the end effect is the same – they unfairly and summarily judge Asians of the opposite gender when such judgments are only applicable to a few. I believe that this negative attitude only affects a small population of Asians, albeit a very vocal population.
Witness the postings where Asian men try to conclude that Asian women are sellouts because of so-and-so out-marriage rates. What’s the point? First, you’ll never know who in the out-marriage population is a sellout. And there’s no guarantee that a person who is not in that population is not a sellout. Finally, even if they are, shouldn’t we just be thankful that we’re not stuck with one of those?
“Is Geoff the typical kind of guy preying on the gender divide or can't some of the blame be placed on asian men?”
Two parts to this question.
Part 1: “Geoff the typical kind of guy preying on the gender divide”
I don’t know what Geoff does in real life. So what I go by in my postings are all based on what he claims. And I’m sure what you go by when you responded to me is based on what I wrote, right?
Part 2: “can't some of the blame be placed on asian men?”
In my first post ever to Geoff (9/17), I wrote:
“…“Asian men have a bad attitude” propaganda…Some of us are guilty of it, sure…”
I don’t think I’ve ever exculpated all Asian men from wrongdoings. If you can find where I’ve written that, please quote me.
“Basically are you just trying to corner the guy until you hear exactly what you want to hear :)”
While I’ve brought up a few points, there is only one point I want to corner Geoff on, and that is to make him understand the “good sounding reason” versus the “real reason.” I went all the way to illustrate with my ex-tenant and her attitude towards black men. I was hoping that the example with my black ex-tenant will help him understand the logic behind some Asian women who do the same thing to Asian men.
“In this scenario, he looks like the bad guy and asian guys get all the sympathy. That's really not fair in my opinion.”
Geoff has very gracefully refrained from the race card, and even though we have our differences, I fully respect him for debating on his own merits. But this statement of yours brings me back to the whole vulture theme. Isn’t a vulture much like a white man trying to pit a black man against an Asian man? We know you’re not one of these, right? ;)
Repost
Tuesday, September 24, 2002 at 18:51:31 (PDT)
[66.92.1.200]
To: Geoff DB
“I have participated in a number of forums discussing Asian American issues on this site. My record speaks for itself. I've neither made any threatening comments, nor attempted to thumb my nose up at Asian guys for my openness towards Asian women. There's really not much more for me to prove.”
I don’t think my message came across to you. When I wrote of the “agenda,” i.e. “good sounding reason” versus the “real reason,” this is what I was saying:
Good sounding reason:
My black lady ex-tenant – “black men have bad attitudes”
Your Asian lady friend(s) – “Asian men have bad attitudes”
Real reason:
My black lady ex-tenant – “prefers non-black men”
Your Asian lady friend(s) – “prefers non-Asian men”
The correlation is between my ex-tenant and your friend(s), not you. Unless, of course, you find that there is a correlation to you.
“I came on here proclaiming to rescue Asian women from Asian guys, or that I felt I'm much better capable of fulfilling the desires of Asian women than Asian men, then yes, I'd be a vulture.”
No, that’s not a vulture. That’s an egotistical narcissist. A vulture is one who preys on the pains of others. And by fostering the pain and suffering of others, a vulture increases his or her scope of opportunities. What was that whole attitude about you “maintaining” Asian men are this and that? Aren’t these the false words used to foster the Gender Divide gap? And then you say:
“It's also fair to not extrapolate an individual's attitude over an entire ethnic group”
What are you saying by this? Isn’t this a tad bit different from what you are doing? Or is it ok to you because we are “just” Asian men? It’s fine for you to have your personal bias against us and even jump on the “Asian men have bad attitudes” bandwagon – just don’t claim to be our friend or be supportive of us at the same time.
Repost
Tuesday, September 24, 2002 at 18:51:10 (PDT)
[66.92.1.200]
I can say that a lot of AMs have been so psychologically bothered and jilted by this gender divide and the sight of so many AFs in the arms of other races men that there is no more cure or remedy to this sociological and social ill.
You cannot force some of those AMs back into the fold of AFs. Many of them do not even think there is enough AFs to go around for in the first place.
Best thing is to let them explore and seek love elsewhere.
There is no divide. The battle has been fought already and the damage is irreparable at this stage now.
I know one Asian guy who was bothered by this gender divide for so long that the couple of Asian American girls he dated did not last long. There was just so much bottled-up anger and insecurities he had held inside of him for too long.
Then, he dated a Latina and he told me he couldn't be more happier. This is the only long-term and successful relation that I have seen him in thus far. Was it because she was not Asian? I can't say for sure, nor can I deny it. But, if he has found true love, I am all for it.
For some us, we are getting too old to hate and complain now.
Jeff
Tuesday, September 24, 2002 at 18:12:21 (PDT)
[64.130.235.33]
One quick comment:
One Asian Woman whom I know once told me the reason why she didn't marry an Asian guy was because she didn't want to deal with the "pettiness of a typical Asian Mother in Law." That sounds really weird to me--perhaps a touch of dislike of the more "traditional" culture. What do you all think?
Hank Lewis
Tuesday, September 24, 2002 at 11:45:51 (PDT)
[161.159.4.21]
Someone wrote "You like Asian (and as you claim, other non-black) women."
OK, why don't we all agree to sign a pact that asian women belong to asian men.
Any non-asian man who expresses any remote interest in asian women will, therefore, by considered a threat and reverse his remarks to humiliate and destroy his character.
You hear that asian women? No more outdating. You belong to asian men and that's that. The AA gender divide is YOUR fault. Asian men are not to be blamed. Once you outdate, you forfeit your right to be respected and any non-asian who has interest in you has NO interest in the asian american community at large.
Does that sum up your cheap remarks?
Political Observer
Tuesday, September 24, 2002 at 11:27:43 (PDT)
[167.230.38.7]
I know that we Asian men here in USA are vocal about our situation (the so-called "gender divide"). But, the Asian guys in western Europe, Australia and Canada have not much to say. Perhaps, they are mostly immigrants and maybe their women do not intermarry as much (even though they do too)?
I am also curious, do the Asian men in Latin American countries have a "gender divide?" I heard they really get mad play from local Latina women???
all over the world
Tuesday, September 24, 2002 at 01:01:54 (PDT)
[64.130.235.33]
Paradox Revisited:
"I wonder why guys like Geoff DB, or any black or white guy, would date and marry AFs that put down their own race of men."
Some guys do it because it makes them feel superior or it gets their egos aroused.
I've tended to side with Asian women most of the time because I've had problems with Asian guys' attitudes. Although, I'll try to be more balanced in my judgments. I'm sure my body langauage has not spoken very positively.
"Geoff, if you were dating a WF, would you just sit there while this WF ridicules black women?"
Hell no. I have a mother and three sisters who are, of course, black women. I would correct those biased statements and clarify right away that most black women deserve respect.
Good, fair questions.
Geoff DB
GeoffDB02@aol.com
Monday, September 23, 2002 at 23:16:17 (PDT)
[172.190.71.120]
Repost:
"...sometimes the agenda is not all that pretty when exposed, so they cover it up by some other reasons in front of other people. That’s the 'real reason' versus the 'good sounding reason'."
I have participated in a number of forums discussing Asian American issues on this site. My record speaks for itself. I've neither made any threatening comments, nor attempted to thumb my nose up at Asian guys for my openness towards Asian women. There's really not much more for me to prove.
"...I could have just sat there and listened to her and sympathize with her, like you did when your Asian women friends capped on Asian men."
True. There is certainly a need to be more balanced in my conclusions. Although, as I've stated, I'm cautious to not toss my own bad experiences out the window.
"The Asian Gender Divide is a problem for Asians."
Repost, these are adult, mature, intelligent Asian women who choose to outdate and outmarry. If they do so, because they feel Asian men are not good enough for them, then that's bullshit. If they do so, because they fall in love with someone else or they want to try something new, then that's their right. White and black women do it, why not Asian women.
I agree, the "attitude" excuse needs to be explained and not, merely, accepted as fact. It's also fair to not extrapolate an individual's attitude over an entire ethnic group.
"That’s where the opportunity lies for an outsider with a sympathetic ear. So was it really a low blow that I dealt?"
Yea, it was still a low blow. If I came on here proclaiming to rescue Asian women from Asian guys, or that I felt I'm much better capable of fulfilling the desires of Asian women than Asian men, then yes, I'd be a vulture. But to be interested in Asian women just like I'm interested in all women is not the same as behaving or talking like a vulture.
Geoff DB
GeoffDB02@aol.com
Monday, September 23, 2002 at 23:09:38 (PDT)
[172.190.71.120]
Oooh... Geoff, Repost SO caught you with your pants around your ankles.
Let's face it. You're not here to "help" and offer us support just because you're some incarnation of Mother Theresa. You like Asian (and as you claim, other non-black) women. Fair enough. I am not against IRs (I've been in some myself). But please, be honest with us. I don't care if the truth is not as pretty as you would like it to sound. I'll admit that when I go to Europe to see old friends, I also hope to see some action. I don't lie about it. But you -- you do spew some flowery PC rubbish sometimes. Don't lie through your teeth -- I think that's the reason why many people on Goldsea have trouble warming upto you.
Come on man....
Monday, September 23, 2002 at 19:43:55 (PDT)
[128.253.186.46]
Paradox Revised,
you wrote
"This is because these kids will look like Mexican and Hispanic children making this nation more latino populated."
You're a racist moron. Go get your money back from wherever you took that remedial reading class.
That's actually bulls***. Kids born of asian and white parents hardly look latino. They have distinct features which are not soley white or asian. They tend to have very fine skin, almond eyes, dark hair.
Do black/asian kids ( such as tyson beckford) look latino? No they don't. Nothing against latinos, but let's not try to insinuate that white/asian = latino.
Political Observer
Monday, September 23, 2002 at 15:07:36 (PDT)
[167.230.38.7]
"It’s not too different from saying that because Domino’s Pizza gets your order wrong 50% of the time, all Asian women are sellouts."
I don't understand that comparison, Repost and I think you know what I mean and are trying to squirm out of it. But anyway, what you mentioned re Emeryville's Border's Books was the second time I heard that observation about AM/WF sightings. I shall give you yet another chance by seeing and reporting back my findings of these pairings. Until then happy hunting, bro.
Brother Man
Monday, September 23, 2002 at 14:17:41 (PDT)
[152.163.189.198]
Repost,
you wrote to Geoff DB
"If I did, that would make me a vulture preying on your equivalent of a gender divide, wouldn’t it?"
So repost, why does this AA gender divide exist, in your opinion, solely of course?
I mean it's one thing to ask the hard questions. Can you start answering this one hard question. Is Geoff the typical kind of guy preying on the gender divide or can't some of the blame be placed on asian men?
Basically are you just trying to corner the guy until you hear exactly what you want to hear :) ??? In this scenario, he looks like the bad guy and asian guys get all the sympathy. That's really not fair in my opinion.
Political Observer
Monday, September 23, 2002 at 13:32:00 (PDT)
[167.230.38.7]
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