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GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
IS THE AA GENDER DIVIDE REAL?
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:05:37 PM)
sian American women are abandoning AA men by the millions. Young AA women seek out any race of men but their own. Women like Amy Tan write books and make movies that dump on AA men and glorify Asian women in relationships with white men.
That's the perception of many AA men.
On what do they blame this state of affairs? Brainwashing by media that play up white men while cutting Asian men off at the knees. Desire for payback by AA women who feel slighted by their families and Asian society. Large numbers of non-Asian men with blind fetishes for Asian women. Some even acknowledge that Asian men are often too fixed in their ideas of how a woman should look and behave, causing many AF to feel devalued.
Other Asian Americans see AF outmarriage rates as merely a natural state of affairs for a 4% minority population that includes many recent immigrants. The outmarriage gender gap will narrow as growing Asian population centers provide ready access to bigger pools of singles. Besides outmarriage isn't the same as rejecting one's racial identity, they argue. Many AF who outmarry retain strong identification with their Asian identity.
Is there really an Asian American gender divide? Is so, what's behind it? If not, what's behind the perception?
This interactive article is closed to new input.
Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
Hi,
I'm a white guy who enjoys reading Goldsea. Most of the time I just read other people's posts, but recently I've felt compelled to respond to the anti-white rhetoric that is taking place on this forum. I'm referring specifically to T'K Chang's assertion that ugly AF date WM. I'm a white guy who has been dating a beautiful Chinese woman for the past twelve months, and as you might imagine, my girlfriend and I find such generalizations to be insulting.
I can tell you from personal experience that such generalizations are completely untrue. My girlfriend is gorgeous, and it's not just me that thinks so. Many (and I mean MANY) Asian men have gone after my girlfriend Lisa. I've actually had to witness the rudeness that many of them have shown by flirting with her in my presence. One AM (not in my presence) asked her out, and when she told him that she had a white boyfriend, he told her that he never wanted her anyway. You don't know how many times Lisa has cried on my shoulder after receiving poor treatment from AM.
I also want to point out that many beautiful women from Asia date or marry white men. Look at Michelle Yeoh, Bai Ling, Lucy Liu, and Connie Chung (who was a real looker when she was younger). These are women who are respected and desired by Asian men as well as white men.
Anyway, I agree with the Mexican woman on this forum. Interracial relationships are here, and they are here to stay. Get over it! Some of the people on this forum need to be more open minded.
Rob
Tuesday, November 26, 2002 at 23:09:43 (PST)
[32.100.71.154]
Dase,
Well, at least we have one thing in common.
To answer your question, actually, my experiences talking to AF are neither good nor bad. I don't give it much thought.
Most of my beefs are from
"observations" of attractive or intelligent AF dating ugly or stupid ass men (of any race except there own). The freaks Chang's talking about.
No I don't intend to date all (any) of them. I just think it degrades AM (me being one is probably a big reason); after all, what do other women think when they see this? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it may sound pretty shallow.
As for the ugly and/or stupid AF, I don't care who they date.
As a final note. I'd have a hard time trusting an Asian girl. To me, they're the only group who are overly concerned with whiteness, or asianness depending on how you skew it. Honestly, are there any other women who do so much to make themselves look less "ethnic". Surgery and hair colouring are the two things I'm refering to.
huu76
Tuesday, November 26, 2002 at 21:58:30 (PST)
[64.231.97.145]
Thats all I have to say.
Your half blind. I don't know how you can come out with those shit views. All women want similiar values regard of race.
This is all I have to say
Tuesday, November 26, 2002 at 21:44:50 (PST)
[162.83.146.45]
The only beautiful interracial mate I have seen are those foreign mail order brides from Asia, Columbia and Eastern Europe. Usually it is with an older white man. Most often, these women leave these men sooner or later after getting their green cards.
beauty isn't ours forever
Tuesday, November 26, 2002 at 20:20:35 (PST)
[64.130.235.33]
Real-world examples of ugly WM/AW celebrity couples:
Amy Tan, Mrs. Joy Luck Club, is perhaps the most notorious Asian-male basher and "sellout". (Gosh I hate using that word, sellout. I prefer "twinkie".) Amy Tan is practically the MOTHER OF ALL TWINKIES. I had heard her reputation but I jad never seen her face before. Her reputation certainly precedes her (face), and I have found out why. Today I saw her picture for the first time. HOLY CRAP, that broad is UGLY. I know some people think that beauty and ugliness are relative and in the eyes of the beholders. But anyway you look at her, no matter what "relative" standard you use to see her, that is one UGLY chic. I do not know what her White husband looks like. But after looking at Amy Tan's face, I sure do not want to find out. Yikes.
John Lennon could have gotten ANY woman he had wanted, but he picked Yoko (I could never quite understand why.) John Lennon was probably one of the earliest (if not THE earliest) WM/AF celebrity couples. So I think he pretty much set the standard for how WMs see AFs. Personally, I think Yoko was a plain looking woman with a nasty personality. Yoko had a very unclean "druggie" look and (ugh) messy long hair. When I saw their poster for an Macintosh ad on the sidewalk, I told myself: "Gosh, they looked as if they were just about to OD (i.e, drug overdosed) anytime." I think John Lennon would have had OD'd if his killer had not gotten to him first.
Woody Allen and his little Asian doll are particulary HARSH on the eyes as well (as in, they are UGLY.)
Connie Chung is OKAY, but she is no beauty queen. She is kinda plain, even when she was younger. Her husband is quite typical looking for a White man his age (he is no Harrison Ford, but he is okay.) Actually, they are just another average looking couple.
I think Lucy Liu will most likely end up with a White guy. For Asian men she is BELOW AVERAGE in terms of looks. But White men seem to think she is the hottest. Although I have heard she is NOT a twinkie in real life. However, I do not think she can find a suitable Asian mate in Hollywood--there is no Asian male celebrity of her equal in Hollywood.
Is there any A-list WM/AF celeb couple I have missed?
T'K Chang
t_k_chang@yahoo.com
Tuesday, November 26, 2002 at 19:27:30 (PST)
[207.167.96.21]
Give me a break:
"Quite often, IR couples (AM/WF or AF/WM) are VERY average."
How are you going to back that up? Or could it be that a large portion of the population in general are "VERY average"?
"ITS A FACT"
Go ahead and prove it, otherwise, why should I, or anyone else for that matter, believe you?
Yours is the same old rhetoric that has been bounced off these boards since forever, but that's another post. When are people like you going to realize that your 'truths' and 'facts' are nothing more then your own critical, self-absorbed, closed minded, and not very logical opinions?
It's okay to have those opinions, just learn not to confuse truths and facts with them. That's all I ask! Because really, everybody else expects everybody else to have an opinion, and most people are okay with that.
I guess you found one of my pet peeves!
This Isn't Rocket Science
Tuesday, November 26, 2002 at 18:59:19 (PST)
[65.132.56.17]
immigrant girl from China,
I wish there was someone like you to take this rhetoric of yours face to face with Connie Chung and Amy Tan.
FOP
Tuesday, November 26, 2002 at 11:21:02 (PST)
[65.147.95.42]
think outside the box:
So are u implying AF are arrogant, snobby? May be you are the one who need to think outside the box. pretty ironic!
I think she talks about her experience rather than confirm it as truth. Don’t take it seriouly...
azn angel
Tuesday, November 26, 2002 at 10:15:35 (PST)
[61.11.245.7]
AF, I'm glad that we agree that dating non-asian is not disloyalty to being asian. I can understand your frustration at all of the AF bashing on these forums, AMs calling AFs sellouts just because they date non-asian men. And it makes me frustrated when people bash AMs, calling them sellouts because they date non-asian women, or they say they're all butt ugly.
to give me a break:"But most of the time, AMs and AFs in IRs are NOT attractive!" I disagree. Have you personally seen every single asian person that is in an IR?
"ITS A FACT, so don't deny it. One of my biggest pet peeves are people who are afraid to say the truth like it is."
I'm not afraid to say the truth, but your truth is your own skewed view of the world, that fits neatly in your view of the world. My idea of truth is my own, as is everyone's.
They always say some stuff like,
"Looks aren't important." I never said that. Of course looks are important. I wouldn't be dating my boyfriend if I didn't think he was gorgeous, and vice versa.
"Race is not an issue. I am SO open." I am open, so what? I appreciate my boyfriend's culture and heritage but it's not the be-all and end-all of our relationship.
"It's all about the personality." Personality is very important.
Try working on your own.
whatever
Tuesday, November 26, 2002 at 09:49:01 (PST)
[207.183.118.60]
hey Novia,
Not once did I say that you were unattractive. I don't think most Asian females are unattractive at all. Most Asian females happen to be very beautiful,lovely and sophisticated looking. I think you might have taken what I said the wrong way. I was referring to the people who talk down on people that date outside their races. I was not talking about all Asian females in general. I do not like to generalize people. It just seemed the posts from a few people were very similar. I apologize if I was wrong on that. But I still feel the same for those who oppose interracial relationships because we are here to stay 4ever and ever.
mexican lady
Tuesday, November 26, 2002 at 09:44:15 (PST)
[152.163.188.65]
when i'm saying Hot AF like men of their own kind i didn't mean the other way around.
AF
Tuesday, November 26, 2002 at 05:24:15 (PST)
[203.162.120.165]
haha...what a joke! just because i said AF and AM look so good together means I have problems w/ IR? I suggest you get your head checked!
My brother's g/f is a white girl and i get along w/ her. i have cousins married to White and people from other asian ethnicites. i never have any problem w/ it.btw i 'd have no problem dating a wm either.
Yes I think a beautiful AF and a sleek AM would look very very nice together so I am saying I don't like IR? are you offended by my comment ?
As for that stuff you bring up, yes AF(18) and AF are the same.So what? I'm bad and very petty sometimes ...another thing is the board doesn't require registration, other wise it would have been different. I'm sure not everyone is honest enough to use only 1 moniker.
this is just a msgboard...take it easy lady.. don't be jugmental towards me because of one thing or two i did here.
normally i'm busy w/ college, boyfriend, going out,...i'm definitely not a loser hiding behind the internet venting my dislike towards AM seeking out AF. The reason I argue too much here because some people go overboard accusing AF, lumping them all in sellout category. that's what bugs me...
and when something bugs me it is like a thorn by my side that i want to wipe out.probably i should take it easy next time...ilt's just an anonymous board w/ topics rehased over and over again.
whatever:
I'm sorry i didn't mean to sound that way. i didn't mean dating non-asian is disloyal. if i do, i 'would not be any different from huu 76 or deng ai. actually it is one of the points i like to bring up in this forum to say it's erroneous to avoid AF as a whole thinking they're 'sellout'.
noname:
probably it comes down to a matter of self-confidence. I'm not saying physical attractiveness correlate w/self esteem.... who knows people hook up by a lot more profound reasons than mere appearance. it would be superficial to judge the relationship of a couple through their physical appearance. and white people may view asian beauty different than we do. i've seen good looking wm hooking up w/ af whom we judge as bland looking.
However what i notice is beautiful AF usually like men of their own.
AF
Tuesday, November 26, 2002 at 05:23:08 (PST)
[203.162.120.165]
whatever,
Jesus, you goody-two-shoes! Look, I also know that people generally date outside their race for a large number of reasons. Its fair to say that NOT ALL people in IRs are unattractive and can't get dates. But this is true more often than you may think, and it is NOT an anomaly.
Quite often, IR couples (AM/WF or AF/WM) are VERY average. At best. I see a hot AF with a hot WM maybe once in a blue moon. More often than not, those hot AFs are with busted-up, even UGLY white mofos. It's obvious what the trade-off is for the AF in those types of situations. WF and BF do this too, mind you. It's a female thing, not a race thing.
With AMs, this tends to be less the case for some reason. The attractiveness in an AM/WF couple are usually about equal. Ugly AMs are with ugly WFs, hot ass ones with hot ass WFs, etc.
But most of the time, AMs and AFs in IRs are NOT attractive!
ITS A FACT, so don't deny it. One of my biggest pet peeves are people who are afraid to say the truth like it is.
They always say some stuff like,
"Looks aren't important."
"Race is not an issue. I am SO open."
"It's all about the personality."
Give me a break
Monday, November 25, 2002 at 23:21:56 (PST)
[128.253.186.46]
immigrant girl from china, AF:
You've got it totally right. I agree with the part about the attractiveness part too. I'm facially quite attractive, and I have a top notch education, and I'm sociable and friendly. I'm just on the short side (5'8"), so Asian women, esp. the hot ones, aren't that into me. I have high standards (I guess I'm just superficial) as far as looks are concerned, so I prefer to date cute to very attractive women. Hot Asian women generally do not want to date me although they wouldn't mind being friends with me. I find that more non-Asian women are willing to oeverlook the height thing. And since I am also sexually attracted to non-AFs, I have no problem dating them. In other words, I would prefer a pretty non-AF over an average AF. Those are the options I have as far as dating choices are concerened, and that has been my choice so far.
So I won't bash AFs who date WM, if they can't get a date with quality AM. I can identify with that. But just don't date white guys because you hate being Asian or that you think Asian men are inferior.
Thats all I have to say.
Monday, November 25, 2002 at 21:06:58 (PST)
[132.236.75.254]
AL:
"Word of advice: Stay away from the tourist traps (any clubs on Sunset) unless you want to meet the sell outs."
It is interesting (and NOT a coincident) that we both posted on the same topic on the same day (on how Sunset Strip is generally a HOSTILE place for Asian men.) You guys (ESPECIALLY Asian men) should head over to the "Asian American Nightlife" forum and read what I had to say about clubbing and Sunset Strips:
http://goldsea.com/Poll/Hotspot/hotspot.html
T'K Chang
t_k_chang@yahoo.com
Monday, November 25, 2002 at 12:56:12 (PST)
[207.167.96.48]
Oh and by the way, I want to make my point very clear. I posted under the name Interracially Marriedlady, and Mexican lady because I am the same person. I am a mexican woman in a happily married interracial relationship with 2 beautiful sons and a daughter.
Interracial Relationships are here to stay on planet earth whether any of you like it or not. You MAY hate it but there isn't a damn thing any of YOU can do about it and thats the WAY IT IS. And I want to state that my husband is very handsome looking and I am definitely attractive. Not all who marry interracially are ugly. Thats just an excuse you SEPARATISTS would like to use. There is no separating us. INterracial relationships are HERE TO STAY.
mexican lady
Monday, November 25, 2002 at 12:56:05 (PST)
[205.188.208.74]
We have all seen it here in Southen California: good-looking White males pairing up with butt-ugly Asian females. Whenever we see such a couple, we always ask ourselves: "What the heck was the guy thinking?!?" The White man involved was usually tall, good-looking, muscular, polite, and well-dressed. He could have *ANY* woman he wanted: white, black, brown, yellow, purple, pink, whatever. BUt somehow he ended up some really butt-ugly Asian woman. We have all discuss this peculiar situation in private with our Asian friends (or even with other White men and women.) I have. And I have come up with several likely explanations. Two most likely explanations:
(1) White men do not know better. They do know how to evaluate and appreciate Asian beauty. Their beauty standard for Asian women is skewed by the media. For example, most Asian men I know do NOT consider Lucy Liu as beautiful. However, White media and White men are just crazy about her.
Or,
(2) White men are so blinded by their Asian fetish that they just want Asian women, *ANY* Asian woman. They seriously think that *ALL* Asian women are beautiful. They are the exact equivalence of some good-looking, successful Black or Asian men who date fat White women. Those Black or Asian men just want WHITE women, *ANY* White woman. Ugh.
(For goodness sake, my Asian brothers, if you are going to date White women, PLEASE at least date the good looking one. Geez.)
However, good-looking White males dating butt-ugly asian females are minority among WM/AF couples (well, a SIGNIFICANT minority, I would say.) IN general, people do date other people who are (about) their equal in the look department, even when they are dating across the racial bondaries. Thanks goodness for that. Good-looking men usually date good-looking women. Ugly men usually date ugly women (unless the ugly men have A LOT of money.)
T'K Chang
t_k_chang@yahoo.com
Monday, November 25, 2002 at 12:24:52 (PST)
[207.167.96.48]
immigrant girl from China, you're a perfect example of a stuck up, snobby, arrogant AF. How would you know why people choose to date people of another race? Can you read their minds? It's not because of a lack of options. And not all asian/non-asian relationships have problems. Look at Happy Clam or Hank Lewis for examples of healthy and happy AF/WM and WF/AM marriages. All of you that are claiming that only the loser, ugly asians date outside their race are JEALOUS! or just full of hate for anyone non-asian. I'm a WF. My AM boyfriend is gorgeous, sweet, loving, caring, smart, has a fabulous body, good manners, a great, well-paying job, is highly educated and owns a very nice house and cars. He is very close with his friends and family, almost all of whom are asian.
Eat your hearts out.
think outside the box
Monday, November 25, 2002 at 11:13:24 (PST)
[207.183.118.60]
Hispanis lady:
Damn, I think it’s pretty true that you are often likely to think ill of people whon you are programmed to dislike. Haha what you brought up is interesting. The anonymity of internet forum is a big disadvantage. Who knows …may be cali girl and you are the same person using different aliases….Or noname and tkchang are the same cos they sound so similar. Or huu and deng ai must be the same person cos their views are so similar regarding Afs. However the Your assumption is based on what? What a good lesson you brought me…haha so whenver there aresimilar opinions in the same board, i might come to the conclusion that they’re from the same poster….
You must be thinking i’m some pathetic and ugly asian girl frustrated at non af stealing her men….If you do then you’re wrong. I’m not an ugly, insecure asian chick who harbor so macuh bitterness over IR. Believe it or not the reality is totally opposite to what you want to assume about me. Find me any post where i display my disliking to IR???Unless you could, don’t put words into my mouth!!! Putting words into ppl’s mouth is the last resort to win over others in debate…I guess you might be having problems w/ what i posted cos you hate it when I said hot AF and hot AM are for each other!!!
I’m in love w/ an AM who prefer AF in general, but it doesn’t mean I must be against IR. So the other AM are seeking non-AF? Who cares? As long as they are happy w/ their women…That’s their choice. I had my perfect prince who is deeply in love me, so what’s the point in fretting over love life of other men and women? The reason I appear to gung ho in this forum is the overgeneralization of AF as ‘sellout’. Sometimes you just can’t hold back from giving out your opinions and sometimes it come off as oversensitive. I’m usually nice w/ people but if anyone says erroneous and ridicuous assupmtions/stereotypes about me/ my race I will fight fire with fire!!! That’s how I am.
Funny, an AF give out opinions her words were twisted around and she would look bad and who knows what else mistake are to be put on her shoulders. It makes me laugh to tears to think about it.
Novia
Monday, November 25, 2002 at 10:43:30 (PST)
[203.162.133.232]
My AM happens to be very very attractive looking. I always catch AFs WFs and latinas checking him out. The same goes for me. Lots of men flirt and stare. I do not pay them attention because my heart is with my man. We are an attractive couple and have been told that many times. Just because someone dates outside their races does not make them unattractive. Sometimes very attractive looking people date outside their races. Like in my case for instance is a very good example.
Sylvia
Monday, November 25, 2002 at 09:48:37 (PST)
[152.163.188.65]
mexican lady:
u fool... look at the identity number!!! WHo is so crazy as to do that. One post would suffice. I don't have a lot of time going around this board like that.I have no reason to be angry for IR. I'm cmmitted to a relationship w/ an AM who is beyond reproach. I also think AM should go for awomen of any ethnicity, as said in my previous post. Just because AFs ventilate their opinions don't mean you have to twist their words/intentions.
Azn angel
Monday, November 25, 2002 at 09:18:58 (PST)
[61.11.245.7]
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