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ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
Relations between Asian and Non-Asian Women
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:03:04 PM)
veryone has an opinion on how Asian women are perceived by men. Reflecting those stereotypes across the gender line, we might assume that non-Asian women would see Asian women either as sexual threats (the exotic temptresses/sexual predators stereotype) or objects of pity and condescension (the passive victims of sexist cultures stereotype). Or, inside the halls of academe and of corporate America, perhaps as superhuman competitors for grades and promotions (the grinds-with-no-lives stereotype).
Friend or foe?
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In actual social encounters such preconceptions translate into a plethora of mostly subtle but detectible responses -- hostility, wariness or exaggerated solicitude. In extended dealings these attitudes might subject Asian women to excessive amounts of malicious gossip, campaigns of isolation, or an effort at taking under the wing or even outright domination.
These types of negative interactions are common enough that, in an effort to neutralize them, Asian American women seem to have evolved distinctive personal styles. Many AAF make a point of being unusually aggressive and outspoken in social interactions. Others flaunt their educational or economic status. Still others take a take-no-prisoners tack and play the ultra-feminine siren capable of punishing rival females by turning their mates into yo-yos. Some manage to adopt all these tactics and become alpha females against whom resistance is futile.
But of course not all interactions between Asian American women and non-Asian women are of the arms-length variety. At times these women also do relate to one another as best friends, sisters-, daughters- and mothers-in-law, collaborators, teachers, doctors, students, attorneys, fellow soccer moms. Each such relationship introduces aspects of Asian women that defy easy stereotypes but may nevertheless reveal the peculiar role they seem forced to accept in American society.
Not that all non-Asian women start with a negative impression of Asian women. We kick off the reader comments with a post from a woman with good reason to want to see warm relatioins between AF and non-Asian females.
We invite women of all perspectives to air their perceptions, concerns and observations on relations between Asian and non-Asian women.
This interactive article is closed to new input.
Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
a AF(21)
I agree with you and the other AW on here that alot of times if an AW speaks ups for herself then she is seen as being a mean, fire-breathing "Dragonlady."
And if she keeps quiet then she is seen as a weak "Submissive." I don't care if some WW thinks I am a Dragonlady for standing up for myself. There is nothing wrong with being a strong AW with good self esteem. You are so right about being raised in such a household, the way it makes you see things different. I was also raised to have healthy self esteem from parents. I have never felt inferior to WW. I also have never put myself above anyone as though I was better than them. Some women like Hayley seem to associate having a healthy self esteem with being self centered and holier than thou.
an AznDragonLady
Sunday, October 27, 2002 at 10:01:47 (PST)
[205.188.208.106]
Okay. As far as AM(18), I would like to clarify something. I have to agree with his comment to some extent. But I don't think that its right that Asian Men come here trying to invade our board. Everywhere you look there are message boards catering to Asian Men. This one was specifically for Asian Women and Non-Asian women. I think we deserve to have an all women board with womens opinions. Why doesn't AM(18) go to a men board to comment his feelings? The first thing men want to do is speak of interracial relationship percentage blah blah. This discussion board really has not much to do about interracial relationship. My feelings go far beyond that. It has to do with personal experience I have gone through in my life as an Asian woman. AM(18) cannot relate completely to it, because he is not an Asian woman. He can however relate to the part of my being Asian. So as my brother, I am not tearing him down. But I think we women are due our own discussion place.
AF(21)
Saturday, October 26, 2002 at 05:39:15 (PDT)
[205.188.208.106]
[Allowing in AM(18)'s post was an oversight on our part. Guys, read but don't post. --Ed]
"How were his remarks racist? The man is no angel, but he was grossed out by her eating habits- eating with her hands instead of utensils, eating all of the innards, which he isn't used to culturally, and her know-it-all attitude. "
The remarks were racist, whether he was aware of it or not. There's nothing wrong with eating with one's hands. Indian people traditionally eat with their hands before the British arrived in India. Funny thing is, they're on a game show called 'Survivor'. Anything goes supposedly, right? Does Robb need a napkin and a salad fork too? If that grossed him out, good thing he lost. He's not the ultimate survivor in my opinion.
Cheerios
Friday, October 25, 2002 at 21:41:03 (PDT)
[216.254.195.171]
WF:
I've tried making friends with some White women, but then find out that they want nothing more than a "Hi" and "Bye" from me.
Whatever.
Stop making it seem one-sided.
A nice AF
Friday, October 25, 2002 at 15:14:49 (PDT)
[208.48.177.5]
>>I'm not attacking you on this but you have to realize that there are Whites who get very angry and offended when they are snubbed by Asians. I could only surmise that this is due to the White mentality of feeling superior to non-Whites. "After all, who do these Asians think they are snubbing me? I'm a White! Who do they think they are acting confident and feeling sure of themselves? After all, they're just Asians!"<<
I don't think that's the case. People may get offended because they approach the Asian person with good intentions, but the Asian will not socialize with them simply because they are "White" and thus deemed as someone unsuitable to deal with. It's kind of funny, but I see a double-sidedness on this from you guys: you want to be treated as equals, with the same respect that whites would give to themselves, and accepted and acknowledged for who you are (nothing wrong with that), but then when people do start to accept you and treat you in terms of "colour-blidedness" - ignoring factors such as race, ethnicity and colour - you don't like it, i.e. you claim that you could NEVER be friends with a WHITE person, that WHITES are trying to rob you of your native culture, that WHITES are acting as superior to everyone else when they try to approach YOU in a friendly and well-meaning way and when it is YOU GUYS who openly reject them and only socialize whithin your own nationality. So what is good enough? If the Whites
don't socialize with and close themselves off to Asians (without necessarily being discriminative or biased) they are labelled as racists who think that they are superior to everyone else just because they are white and others aren't. If Whites try to be friendly and open to Asians and the Asians reject them, the Whites are AGAIN deemed to be racists who think that they are superior to everyone else who isn't white. So what do you want? I guess it's kind of hard to please you demanding Asian folks. Not to say that this has been my personal experience, actually it was quite the contrary and I have a lot of positive memories with my Asian friends (plus I make some new ones), but I can definitely see it from the messages posted on this website and I think this is not a good attitude.
>>God forbid an Asian woman should like herself, her body, and her hair etc. and drape it with nice clothes. Or is it something that White women should solely enjoy? <<
No one is suggesting that. Personally, I only think that people shouldn't judge each other purely and solely on materialistic basis, because some people may not be rich but can still have a big and caring heart and an intelligent mind and a wonderful soul. That is self-explanatory. This is kind of far off, but look at Mother Theresa. She wore basically the same simple habit every day, lived among the poor and took care of them, yet she won a Nobel Prize for peace and I'm sure helped to save many lives and bring many children a more better future. Ok, most of us are not Mother Theresa's and she was certainly distanced in her her mission in life from most of us, but the principle is the same. You never know why somebody doesn't dress in high fashions, maybe they just dont' need the feeling, maybe they would like to but truly cannot afford it and it's not their fault. They shouldn't be judged by these kinds of materialistic criteria as somewhat less worthy, or less capable. Or are we back into "class wars"? I guess the United States is pretty imperialist, no wonder that with a few helpings their culture helps to bring about the narrow-mindedness in people who are pre-disposed to it out! By the way, something that you guys never though of is that people CAN have nice and stylish clothes without buying the expensive designer brands! It's called making your own clothes... when I was little, back in my country a lot of times we didn't have as many nice things as there are here in North America (I still remember the circus that was present practically everytime we tried to buy child shoes and couldn't find any good ones in several different stores), but my mom learned how to saw and knit and she made beautiful sweaters with amazing designs (without knitting-machine by the way) and sew dresses and pants for herself as well as for me that were of quite a good quality. Plus she also did beautiful embroidery and crocheting. I don't know how to do that, but one of my friends who is a Russian does know crochet and embroidery and I think knowing how to make your own clothes and crafts is someting much more to be proud of than simply putting your nose up in the air and looking down on others because you're able to buy expensive designer brand clothing that isn't available to everyone else. Not that I don't like nice or designer clothes (depends what style it is), but judging the value of someone purely based on the price tags of their outfits... well, that speaks for itself. It totally doesn't matter if the person is Asian or Non-Asian or whatever, it's based on the ultra-consumerism and that is so accentuated in your society.
(By the way I don't dress in sweat clothes, I don't think they are expremely pretty and plus they are not necessarily of good quality and are expensive - I'm assuming you're talking about brands such as Nike - in addition to the fact that they employ what's termed as "slave labour" to make the clothes, while getting themselves horrendously rich).
asian and loving it, I don't really know how you came to your conclusions, but I think they're pretty far off (for me anyways). Good luck next time.
eastern-european girl
Friday, October 25, 2002 at 15:02:39 (PDT)
[64.228.48.117]
Some of the white women that I come across around town are very pleasant and easy going. But a lot are overdressed in designer clothes, their sharp pointed noses up in the air, acting as though they're better than everyone else. Who would want to be friends with someone like that?
Asian Girl
Friday, October 25, 2002 at 12:58:00 (PDT)
[138.220.134.31]
Where I study (at the University of Texas), most white women only talk with or hang around with each other, particularly the ones in sororities. They give us Asian women dirty looks when they pass us in the hall, they don't talk to anyone else other than white women in the lunchroom, and try to stick to their sorority sisters all of whom are lily white. They completely isolate themselves from everyone else and do not make friends with other races. Although my family has been in the US for four generations, they frequently ask me where I am really from. And then white women get upset because they feel the Asian women do not mix with them? It makes no sense, I think they isolate themselves and think that they are royalty.
Some of the Asian women that I come across around town are very pleasant and easy going. But a lot are overdressed in designer clothes, noses in the air, acting as though they're better than everyone else. Who would want to be friends with someone like that?
Asian Longhorn
Friday, October 25, 2002 at 12:56:19 (PDT)
[138.220.134.31]
"Generally, AF and WF tend to just avoid each other, not really talking, but there is a STRONG, and i mean STRONG anti-white sentiment among the younger generations of Korean-American and Chinese-Americans. Perhaps it is because most of us adopt rap music, culture, and lingo, but the younger Korean generation tends to be pro-black and anti-white. Strongly anti-white."
This is precisely what I said a couple of weeks ago. I am glad someone else sees the facts in my arguments.
Korean American Woman
Friday, October 25, 2002 at 12:49:49 (PDT)
[138.220.134.31]
AM(18) does not EVEN belong here. He is a GUY, and this is about discussions on ASIAN WOMEN AND NON-ASIAN WOMEN.
AF(21)
Friday, October 25, 2002 at 10:56:52 (PDT)
[205.188.208.106]
Ok, I'm from the somewhat younger generation from you guys (i'm assuming), like the age 14-19 group. I grew up in California, went to high school from the years 1998-2002, so I hope I can bring a different perspective to this issue.
From where I grew up (Southern California, OC), there are maybe 6 Asian/White relationships in the whole school, evenly split between AF/WM and AM/WF.
Generally, AF and WF tend to just avoid each other, not really talking, but there is a STRONG, and i mean STRONG anti-white sentiment among the younger generations of Korean-American and Chinese-Americans. Perhaps it is because most of us adopt rap music, culture, and lingo, but the younger Korean generation tends to be pro-black and anti-white. Strongly anti-white.
AM(18)
Friday, October 25, 2002 at 02:10:30 (PDT)
[138.23.59.245]
WF,
Just wondering, have you ever tried to talk to these Asian women who sat by themselves? I'm never convinced of a one-sided argument. Maybe they are isolating themselves, but maybe the folks at your job are isolating them. Again, it can be a lot easier for a person to open up to other people who look like them.
You also said:
"Some of the Asian women that I come across around town are very pleasant and easy going. But a lot are overdressed in designer clothes, noses in the air, acting as though they're better than everyone else. Who would want to be friends with someone like that?"
You say these women "act like they are better than everyone else". So you don't know? Maybe these women are expressing confidence in a different way from you. I have also met women like this, but a lot of them are down to earth as well. (Actually, I had one of these "overdressed in designer clothes" women give me some fashion tips. Glad she did!).
Joy
Friday, October 25, 2002 at 01:36:17 (PDT)
[218.44.178.62]
WF
Perhaps the Asian women did try to hang with other non-Asian women but were rejected? Also, many Asians may appear to isolate themselves when they are in fact just enjoying the company of those people they have in common with. Did you ever try to make friends with them? When White women talk with and hang only with other Whites, that's considered to be acceptable.
"But a lot are overdressed in designer clothes, noses in the air, acting as though they're better than everyone else."
Sometimes that's called self-confidence or maybe they're also rich and hang only with other rich Asian women. It could be a class issue too. Are you poorly dressed in sweats, unwashed hair in a ponytail, t-shirt, sneakers, when you approach them? Assuming that you've made friendly overtures and not making observations from a distance?
I see White women overdressed in designer clothes, (after all most designers have White women in mind when designing clothes), noses in the air, acting as those they're better than eveyone else. They pass by Asian women all the time without so much as a hello. That's fine with me because they're strangers going about their business.
I'm not attacking you on this but you have to realize that there are Whites who get very angry and offended when they are snubbed by Asians. I could only surmise that this is due to the White mentality of feeling superior to non-Whites. "After all, who do these Asians think they are snubbing me? I'm a White! Who do they think they are acting confident and feeling sure of themselves? After all, they're just Asians!" God forbid an Asian woman should like herself, her body, and her hair etc. and drape it with nice clothes. Or is it something that White women should solely enjoy?
Should those Asian women talk to you and open up because you're White?
You may not think you're superior to Asian women but you sure sound like it. You seem very angry at Asian women who you don't even know. If countless nicely dressed White women passed by you without saying a word, which happens everyday in this country, I doubt you would give it a second thought.
asian and loving it
Thursday, October 24, 2002 at 23:05:41 (PDT)
[151.199.57.128]
Pucca, I was just wondering about this from your post... sorry if you find me being too inquisitive... where are you from? Are you Italian? Just out of curiosity I'm intersted, but if you find it too personal to answer, then that's ok... You've said in your post that you don't live in the United States (I myself live in Canada and I have never even been to the US, the closest I got was seeing Buffalo from the other side of the Niagara Falls about eight years ago... I haven't been there since), so I think if you live in Canada we might have a lot in common... What is your perception of North America as opposed to Europe? Wouldn't you wanna move or return back to Europe someday? I think I would (though not stricly to my country, maybe other places are considerable also).
Anyways... if you want you can write back to me... I don't know if they'll let us post this on here, so if you want you can send me an e-mail to kpriehod@learn.senecac.on.ca... Anyways... good luck to you... Ciao, amiga
eastern-european girl
Thursday, October 24, 2002 at 17:58:54 (PDT)
[64.228.102.121]
In response to WF:
"Alot are overdressed in designer clothes, noses in the air, acting as though theyre better than everyone else. Who would want to be friends with someone like that?"
So what. And what does your small weak observation have to do with the entire population of Asian women on this earth? Who cares what you have observed. For instance, I have observed many White women/men who go around coughing and sneezing their cold germs around without even covering their mouths. And sometimes at resteraunts, they will cough or sneeze while fixing someone's drink. How sanitary is that? Who wants a germ nest for a friend anyway? And Hmmm..So I guess since your statement insinuating that your observations and conculsions of Asian women in your little town must be correct...then it must mean that mine must also correct then, for all White women too? right? So which is it? Make up your mind.
yea, whatever then.
Thursday, October 24, 2002 at 10:06:36 (PDT)
[64.12.96.45]
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