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GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
Relations between Asian and Non-Asian Women
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:03:02 PM)
veryone has an opinion on how Asian women are perceived by men. Reflecting those stereotypes across the gender line, we might assume that non-Asian women would see Asian women either as sexual threats (the exotic temptresses/sexual predators stereotype) or objects of pity and condescension (the passive victims of sexist cultures stereotype). Or, inside the halls of academe and of corporate America, perhaps as superhuman competitors for grades and promotions (the grinds-with-no-lives stereotype).
Friend or foe?
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In actual social encounters such preconceptions translate into a plethora of mostly subtle but detectible responses -- hostility, wariness or exaggerated solicitude. In extended dealings these attitudes might subject Asian women to excessive amounts of malicious gossip, campaigns of isolation, or an effort at taking under the wing or even outright domination.
These types of negative interactions are common enough that, in an effort to neutralize them, Asian American women seem to have evolved distinctive personal styles. Many AAF make a point of being unusually aggressive and outspoken in social interactions. Others flaunt their educational or economic status. Still others take a take-no-prisoners tack and play the ultra-feminine siren capable of punishing rival females by turning their mates into yo-yos. Some manage to adopt all these tactics and become alpha females against whom resistance is futile.
But of course not all interactions between Asian American women and non-Asian women are of the arms-length variety. At times these women also do relate to one another as best friends, sisters-, daughters- and mothers-in-law, collaborators, teachers, doctors, students, attorneys, fellow soccer moms. Each such relationship introduces aspects of Asian women that defy easy stereotypes but may nevertheless reveal the peculiar role they seem forced to accept in American society.
Not that all non-Asian women start with a negative impression of Asian women. We kick off the reader comments with a post from a woman with good reason to want to see warm relatioins between AF and non-Asian females.
We invite women of all perspectives to air their perceptions, concerns and observations on relations between Asian and non-Asian women.
This interactive article is closed to new input.
Discussions posted during the past year remain available for browsing.
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
Thai-American (Hong Kong),
I read your post and actually, I found myself not surprised or shocked at all about it. Power kind of works like that. How do you feel about your experience, now? Of course, I'd be pretty angry, but I would have to laugh at something like this. It's ironic, isn't it? You are probably more intelligent than every one of those ol' boys up there who shunned you. They don't give two cents about changing the world or helping those in poverty, they care about riding in private jets and getting mad perks for doing nothing. They probably didn't hire you because you were qualified to help solve the problems they are supposed to be working on.
Joy
Friday, November 01, 2002 at 22:25:43 (PST)
[218.44.178.57]
AF (21),
I am responding with the biggest grin for ya. Glad to know someone values my opinion. :) I actually began to wonder the same thing. I don't know if white women are taking over the forum, but I wonder why other Black women and Latinas are ready to talk about relationships with their Asian men, but they aren't over here sharing their opinions just as actively.
Although the forum specifies "Non-Asian Women", I also see that the topics are mostly about the relations between Asian and White women, which is of course a relavant topic, but I wonder where someone like me would fit in. I do respond from time to time, but honestly before pressing the "Air It" button, I always have to pause and wonder if I have any right to respond.
Joy
Friday, November 01, 2002 at 22:11:46 (PST)
[218.44.178.57]
Happy Clam,
Yes, I do believe that hicks have narrow views of the world.
I'll leave it up to you to find out if you fall under this category.
The Believer
Friday, November 01, 2002 at 21:33:39 (PST)
[64.130.204.9]
WF and loving it...loving it uh? Must be all that white privilege!
AF
Friday, November 01, 2002 at 12:23:03 (PST)
[138.220.134.31]
"Why is it that so many asian women will only date white men? What's wrong with asian men? Don't you think it's only natural that white women would get upset over seeing so many of their men going out with only asian girls? I can bet you that asian girls would not like it AT ALL if white girls suddenly started dating asian guys en masse. Hawaii sounds like one big catfight. Glad I don't live there." WF and loving it.
WF and loving it:
Back in the early 1970s while my brother was one of the few who integrated TC Williams School here in Alexandria, VA, some of the white boys and men asked him exactly the same question:
"Why is it that so many black men want to date and marry white women? What's wrong with black women? Don't you think it's only natural that white men would get upset over seeing so many of their women going out with only black boys?"
The girls and women did not bother and for everything they called on the white boys.
A couple of years ago, I visited Hawaii and in a few schools white girls would start fight with Asian girls over their dating white men, and when the Asians suggested that the white women date Asian men all hell would break loose. You also perhaps would fit in with the crowd. Very nice to see that the white girls and women have matured to the level of their men. Nice! Gives me great hope!
African American Woman
Friday, November 01, 2002 at 11:14:43 (PST)
[138.220.134.31]
Pucca:
I am at a real disadvantage here, as I am white and married to an Asian man and we have a new baby. I want only the very best between the races. All races.
I have never had any significant trouble with Asian men or women. Oh, the occasional funny look somtimes when I am with my husband (but I get the same with whites, black, etc.). Also, since I am in an IR relationship, I have no problem with others in this sort of relationship. I guess I will just let the others tell you their reasons....but it always seems to boil down to dating or race baiting. A very childish way to discuss a real problem.
And thanks to all of you who are bringing a political discussion to this board. This white candidate in Iowa must be running against a pretty good opponent if the only thing she can hold against is her birthplace. I am going to research this one, thanks for introducing it !!!
And lastly...thanks WF for the kind words ! :-) I may drop by here again and lend my comments to the more adult topics.
Oh ! and to my dear AF(21), why don't you go into the Asian male/black/Latina female boards and ask if they (the women) would like to post something in here?
Hayley
Friday, November 01, 2002 at 09:59:49 (PST)
[205.188.209.82]
Happy Clam:
I agree with what you are saying. Actually, Iowa is pretty open minded at least in Iowa City and Des Moines contrary to what people say. In general, south is more backward at least as far as the treatment of minorities are concerned. Racism does prevail in places such as SC, Louisiana and MS...and parts of Georgia, Arkansas and most of Alabama. Sad but true.
However, I would like you to respond to what WF and loving it is saying about white women and "their men"...as far as I know, slavery was abolished a while ago in the US.
Asian Female Hawkeye
Friday, November 01, 2002 at 07:50:25 (PST)
[138.220.134.31]
Heya True Believer,
While I in no way support the views of candidate Karen Balderston, your comment about Midwestern hicks, of which I evidently must be one, causes me to respond to your post.
Are you one of those New York snobs? California airheads? Or Southern bubbas?
Not too pleasant is it, to sweep ugly brushstrokes over people, regardless of whether you are labelling them negatively based on ethnicity, age, nationality or any other way....Words are powerful things, and although yours are but a small example, it does show how we all can find ourself guilty of being judgemental and prejudical.
Don't mirror the behavior you abhor in others.
Happy Clam
Thursday, October 31, 2002 at 17:43:19 (PST)
[12.217.192.139]
Oh I'm so sorry. I got very confused for a moment there. I mistakenly thought this was AF/Non-AF forum. I didn't realize that this is another forum on the Goldsea focusing on WFs. I mean, geeze..there is already a AM/WF, and AM who like WF, and the AM/Non-AF is also really another AM/WF forum. Are there any Non-WFs' on here? I would like to hear more from women like Joy. I'm bored with the subject of WFs'. I am interested in hearing about other Non-AFs, and their personal experiences and feelings.
AF(21)
Thursday, October 31, 2002 at 09:49:56 (PST)
[152.163.188.71]
No. Not a Cedar Rapidian...US citizen in Singapore visiting home (San Francisco) until the elections are over. Went to University of Iowa.
How are you treated in Cedar Rapids. In Singapore, you can get into trouble for making snide remarks about interracial couples. Just the opposite of Greenville, SC or places in Colorado and Idaho where Asians or Asian Americans are not welcome!
Asian Female Hawkeye
Thursday, October 31, 2002 at 08:18:18 (PST)
[138.220.70.76]
The news report on Iowa was very interesting. In some respects, someone like Karen Balderston may be well suited to represent Iowa over a person brought up in India. But, my problem with the white Americans in general, and the Republicans in particular is that they want to keep all good things for the whites. I am an Asian American woman in her 40s well experienced in international affairs brought up in Thailand under crushing poverty. I worked hard and made my way up in life, studied international development at the Harvard economics department (PhD) and tried to get into US government (USAID) and several consulting firms, plus international organizations. Had no luck, while white Americans (both men and women) with little or no experience in developing countries were hired. I could not even set foot into the Office of International Affairs, Department of Treasury. They would not even talk to me. Then, I applied to universities and think tanks abroad and got into one...I noticed one thing, most places I was rejected white Americans had a major say and they wanted to bring in one of their own.
In 1998, the US Congress set up a Commission to study two international organizations and guess what with the exception of two members (also white American males) all of them were white American males who knew little or nothing about international development. No females white or otherwise were included. This commission was so dumb that they commented that all major wars and threats to America have receded...18 months before thugs ran the planes into WTC and Pentagon...such was their arrogance, ignorance and stupidity.
So, no I have no problems with Baldertson's comment, but it also means that white Americans with little or no experience in international development should not be allowed to become members of commissions studying global poverty. There are many other Americans brought up in other countries who have comparative advantage on this issue, than say, someone such as Karen Balderston.
Thai-American (Hong Kong)
Thursday, October 31, 2002 at 08:14:24 (PST)
[138.220.70.76]
"In Hawaii white and Asian women hate each other with a passion I rarely see elsewhere and as WF says it is highly unlikely that we would ever get along. They fight over all kinds of stuff, but particularly over white men. There is a great deal of resentment from white women over the fact that white men get "taken" by Asian women"
Why is it that so many asian women will only date white men? What's wrong with asian men? Don't you think it's only natural that white women would get upset over seeing so many of their men going out with only asian girls? I can bet you that asian girls would not like it AT ALL if white girls suddenly started dating asian guys en masse. Hawaii sounds like one big catfight. Glad I don't live there.
WF and loving it
Thursday, October 31, 2002 at 08:05:55 (PST)
[207.183.117.60]
WF
You said,
"You say that White women won't talk to Asian women and snub them, but then they isolate themselves into their own groups..."
"Where I work, all the Asian women only talk with or hang around with each other. They don't look at anyone else when they pass you in the hall, they don't talk to anyone else in the lunchroom. They completely isolate themselves from anyone else and make no attempts at making friends."
Is it possible for Asians to socialize with one another without being accused of self-segregating? Did I or anyone else ever accuse Whites of self-segregating or being racist for doing so? Or White women snubbing Asians? Where I work, Whites don't even look at each other in the hall!
I said the other day,
"When White women talk and only hang with other Whites, that's considered to be acceptable."
I meant that literally. I didn't mean to imply that that wasn't acceptable.
You said,
"...And than Asian women get upset because they feel isolated at work?"
When a non-White is "isolated" at work within the close confines of an office or whatever, where people must interact with each other daily, the issue might be race instead of personality and/or performance. It's serious because a job may be at stake so don't trivialize it. Work relationships are not about friendship. Don't confuse the two.
You said,
"and call any Asian that dates a white person "whitewashed" or "sellout". Make up your mind."
All Asian females shouldn't be held accountable for a couple of comments made here and there on various topics. Take it up with people individually.
You said,
"If this board is an indication of the real world then it seems that white women and asian women are at each other's throats, and that asian women hate white women with a passion."
Have you had the benefit of interacting with hundreds of Asians in the real world? I'll bet some or most of these Asians have had way more real world dealings with Whites (hundreds) than you've had with Asians.
You said,
"I was targeting anyone, just stating my observations."
Yeah right. So you admit making observations from a distance. If those were your observations, what were your motivations?
I think you were deliberately and selectively grabbing onto remarks that you've seen at this website as an excuse to go on and on about all Asian women just because you've been snubbed by an Asian woman or have a grudge against them. You're exactly the type of person Asians should avoid because anything he or she says or does will be an indictment of the entire Asian race.
Asian and loving it
Wednesday, October 30, 2002 at 22:50:56 (PST)
[151.199.52.67]
WF,
Being nice to someone who won't give you the time of day is a complete waste of energy.
Asian female Hawkeye,
It's just like a Midwestern hick to have such narrow views.
Thanks for the article.
The Asian American woman still has much to fight for.
The Believer
Wednesday, October 30, 2002 at 21:27:10 (PST)
[64.130.204.9]
Hey Asian female Hawkeye ( Let's go Hawks! )
What do you know, another Cedar Rapidian?
This isn't a Linn County District is it? The name isn't ringing a bell, but then I am drowning in Greg Ganske ads, so I tune them all out...
I am a WF with an AM husband in Iowa as well - Cedar Rapids to be precise lol!
Email me - I am curious about your views on this city and would love to share some thoughts...
HappyClam
wschien1@mchsi.com
Wednesday, October 30, 2002 at 19:21:07 (PST)
[12.217.192.139]
"There is nothing wrong with being a white female."
Agreed.
"I agree with eastern-european girl's sentiments. You say that white women won't talk to asian women and snub them, but then you isolate yourselves into your own groups and call any asian that dates a white person "whitewashed" or a "sellout". Make up your mind."
And many white women are not very innocent either. Read Courtney Weaver's article.
particularly the quote.."I had two feelings about this. One was complete revulsion. The other was relief, since the kind of men who went for Asian women were not men I wanted to have anything to do with, so good riddance if they recused themselves from my dating pool."
Why does she say this and why do many white women not date Asian or other non-white men? To maintain white blood purity? Perhaps that is what the white female candidate from Iowa wants as well. "This is a white state and she wants to represent white people. How dare she want that!"
"If this board is any indication of the real world then it seems that white women and asian women are at each other's throats, and that asian women hate white women with a passion. Maybe we'll never get along. Who cares?"
About 50% of us do. As long as majority of Asian women date and marry white men in large numbers and most white women refuse to date or marry men of other races, this tension and hatred is bound to exist.
The easiest thing would be to flee like the white Californians do and run away from Asians to places such as Montana, Idaho or Colorado. The USA Today had a good article about whites running away from Asians in California to the Mountain West. But, as a nation and a global community we have to care. Running away will not solve the problem.
"Just avoid us if you don't like us."
What are you insinuating? Live like we used to back in the Jim Crowe South?
Chinese/White Mixed Woman
Wednesday, October 30, 2002 at 12:02:45 (PST)
[138.220.134.31]
WF, AF(21) and others here...are you all from Hawaii or originally from Hawaii. I find the white and Asian women very polarized here, and shows up frequently in politics. 95% of the white women back Linda Lingle the GOP candidate, not due to issues, but because she is white and female, while nearly 80% back Mazie Hirono the Dem Candidate, not over issues but because she is Asian and female, for governor. In Hawaii white and Asian women hate each other with a passion I rarely see elsewhere and as WF says it is highly unlikely that we would ever get along. They fight over all kinds of stuff, but particularly over white men. There is a great deal of resentment from white women over the fact that white men get "taken" by Asian women..Asian women say, "why dont they hit on Asian guys?" but white women do not generally want to marry non-white men (my mother being an exception). I am a hapa girl and am frequently asked to take sides. I usually tend to hang out with FOBs rather than white or Asian women per se or with other hapas. Pretty sad state of affairs.
....and of course the report from Iowa is pretty disheartening as well.
Hawaiian Hapa Girl
Wednesday, October 30, 2002 at 11:40:05 (PST)
[138.220.134.31]
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