AA MEN SEEK OUT NON-ASIAN WOMEN
(Updated )

sian women are only interested in non-Asian men and don't give Asian men the time of day. That's the reason cited by many AA men for dating and marrying non-Asians. A minority of AA men say they simply find non-Asian women more physically attractive or more appealing in terms of personality, values and interests. Whatever the reasons, the rates at which young Asian men are dating and marrying non-Asian women are quickly approaching the rates at which Asian women are outdating and outmarrying (about 38%). Some Asian women are complaining that they aren't getting a fair shake because Asian men have been brainwashed by media standards of desirability.
     What are the real reasons for so many Asian men seeking out non-Asian women? How do Asian women really feel about this trend? Who benefits most from it? Will the trend continue? We want to hear your views.
Kevin Yang:

"But why is it that many WASPs (male/female)feel threatened by Asian Americans? Do they think we're taking away from their pie? hmm... I guess I don't see it as much in the scientific fields. Could it be that they've already lost the hi-tech pie?"

Allow me the privilege to answer your question. When one sees the pride of the WASPs, the US auto industry, being annihilated by foreign auto companies, especially Asian auto companies, what do you expect? At present more WASPs and white Americans are working for foreign auto companies, which means they eventually report to the Japanese and Koreans, and yes, Germans. At a time of globalization, every WASP dominated industry is being threatened from Asian corporations including those from Singapore...a small island of three million people...and even worse, Singapore is playing the American game and beating them at it, unlike Japan. In the US engineering schools such as MIT, WASPS are an insignificant minority. Once they dominated. How will you feel?

The anti-globalization protesters are mostly WASP kids, who are trying to preserve their privilege. They want to preserve the primitive way of life and do not want to impose "our way of life" on the Pashtoons (Afghans) in order to reduce competition. If most primitive and moslem women are kept behind the veils, the WASP women can dominate without serious competition. However, there is a problem, Asian women and Asian American women. Big competition here, particularly the Engineering schools. Three years ago, one of the midwestern schools wanted to raise the number of women engineers in their schools. It so happened that the majority who were admitted were Asian American women although the majority of the applicants were white women. Would n't you be upset?
Asian American Male    Friday, February 01, 2002 at 10:26:05 (PST)
@ Asian Dominatrix

Huh?

(I’m happy to address points raised by other posters, but I don’t want to be blamed for helping this thread veer off-topic, if that's what it's doing. If it’s okay with others, it’s okay with me.)

The Mayflower Pilgrims CERTAINLY were not Episcopalians, not only because the Episcopalian Church wouldn’t be founded for another century and a half, but dissent from the Anglican Church – the parent church of the American Episcopalian Church – was the whole point of being a Puritan, especially a Separatist Puritan as the Pilgrims were.

Further, I didn’t say that “Anglo-Saxon” Episcopalians weren’t “real” WASPs. Even though other Protestants kid Episcopalians about their “Catholicism,” an Anglican/Episcopalian Virginian might be as much an Anglo-Saxon Protestant as a descendant of Mayflower Pilgrims may be. I merely facetiously took issue with the idea you mentioned that a true WASP is thought by some to be an Episcopalian of Mayflower descent. The Pilgrims themselves definitely were not Anglicans, although by now Mayflower descendants include Episcopalians and Roman Catholics and Jews and Moslems and, I’m sure, more than a couple of Asian American “happas.” The DAR is even more of a mixed bag.

I’ve never knowingly dated a DAR member. The only DAR members I’ve ever known were little old ladies. But many millions of women are DAR-eligible, and there was never any requirement that one be either “Anglo-Saxon” or Protestant to join. Colonial Maryland, of course, was full of Roman Catholics, including Maryland’s Spanish-descended Chief Justice and Governor, William Paca, signer of the Declaration of Independence. Check the DAR’s eligibility requirements at:
http://www.dar.org/cgi-bin/natsociety/content.cfm?ID=145&hd=n&FO=Y,
especially at the bottom of the page where they also mention descent from the Spanish Troops under Galvez or the Louisiana Militia. Dom, I’ll bet there are lots of DAR-eligible “happas,” too, and maybe even some "happa" members.

Roger    Friday, February 01, 2002 at 09:49:50 (PST)
Kevin,

Wow! Your mom finished at U of Chicago?! That's amazing, given that it is supposed to be the place where "students check in but don't check out." She must be super, super intelligent.

I don't know if it's WASPs necessarily who are racist in their fields, but I do know that academia in Western humanities is still quite prejudiced against minorities. They can tolerate blacks studying and teaching African-American and African literature and Asians teaching Asian-american and Asian literature, but it is mind-boggling for them to imagine folk like us studying "real" Western literature (i.e., Shakespeare). Yet, they don't mind when their own people study and teach Chinese literature. (We can discuss more of this on the Ivy board if we haven't already.) Same goes for fields of journalism, government, corporate world. Arts and business are still notoriously close-minded. As you've said on the Ivy board once, techies can't afford to discriminate against race as much given the fast pace of the whole business.

P.S. Did you like St. Louis? Were there any Asians there at all???
Asian Dominatrix    Friday, February 01, 2002 at 08:40:39 (PST)
Asian Dominatrix:

Your comments "...or even Baptist (altho' I'm not sure that actually existed at that time). " The Baptist church originated in Switzerland not long after the Lutheran Church (late 1500s) came along--well before the American revolution. They were originally known as the "Anabaptists" because they opposed infant baptism--they felt that only when someone had reached the "age of accountability" could they make the decision for salvation and then be baptized by immersion.

There were Anabaptists in the Netherlands who were among the early immigrants to North America. As I am sure you know, New York was originally New Amsterdam and Harlem was a Dutch neighborhood full of Anabaptists. The name became shortened to Baptist in America due to Anglo influences clipping the Swiss/Dutch convention of the term Anabaptist.

As a result of this, it should not be surprising that there are Baptists who are members of the DAR--some of them may have had ancestors who were Anglican or Puritan who changed denomination at some point in their family history for whatever reason.

In any event, today the Southern Baptist Convention (the more conservative wing of the denomination) and the Cooperative Fellowship of Baptist Churches (the more progressive wing of the denomination) make up the bulk of the Baptist (and Protestant) churches in the US today. This includes many historically Chinese congregations on the West Coast and the Gulf Coast (CBC in Houston), and in more recent years, predominantly Filipino and Vietnamese congregations have emerged due to outreach by the SBC and CFBC to those communities.

I myself have ancestors who fought in the American Revolution, the War of 1812, both sides of the Civil War, World Wars I & II, and the Corean War. However, I have absolutely NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER in joining the SOAR, SUV, SCV, Grand Order of the Republic, Loyal Order of Stars and Bars or any other pretentious society of the sort whatsoever.

However, I chuckle to myself in that my half-Chinese daughter and son could join the DOAR or SOAR and they couldn't say jack-squat about it because we have the documentation of her lineage all the way back to the 1600s. Wouldn't that shake up a bunch of those Prissies and Blue-bloods? hee hee hee!!!
Daniel Wayne    Friday, February 01, 2002 at 07:35:13 (PST)
Asian Newland Archer,

Age of Innocence fan, eh? Well, here are a few less innocent things for you to chew on.

I think you're misreading our posts on WASPs here. No one is saying that they are "so terrible", but that they can be intolerant when it comes to IR. (BTW, I've never even dated a WASP myself--instead, lots of Jews.) In fact, I even pointed out a few nice ones I've met! However, I believe many of us here also know that the same could probably be said for any elites in any society, African, Asian, or European. Truth is, there are always going to be people with more "established" backgrounds who look down on others--and one needs to know how to deal with them, regardless of color.

Having said that, tho', I do think that so called "well-to-do" minorities do have the right to associate with anyone they please. Now, I don't like minorities who only want to consort exclusively with WASPs, because that smacks terribly of downright snobbery and lack of self-respect, but hey this is the U.S.: we have every right to associate with anyone we choose, PARTICULARLY those in our professions and social classes. If a Jewish executive wants to make friends with Methodists, Baptists, and Episcopalians, what's wrong with that? If an Asian lawyer wants to consort with Jews and WASPs, what should prevent them?

As for myself. Yes, I am a "supposedly modest" daughter of a professor (MIT grad) and director of an engineering school with a house and 2 condos (no, nothing on Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard--ha!). So OK, just BARELY upper-middle-class--but enough to know a little about the lifestyle and mores of our so-called "superiors."

First off, don't forget the "education" factor. When you're growing up, you do tend to hang out with kids of a similar educational and social background especially when you're in a large HS with few minorities and many tracking programs. In Illinois, that means knowing kids from white, educated, upper-middle-class families (i.e., parents with Ph.D's), tho' not necessarily WASP.

Same for college. If you go to a Seven Sisters college like my alma mater in MA. (hint: it boasts both Gloria Steinem--yeah!--and Nancy Reagan, boo), you can't exactly avoid WASPs can you? A place where roughly a third of the student body attended private schools like Andover,Kent, etc.

Finally, the issue of career comes into play. This may be the most important factor. There may not be a lot of WASPs in science or high tech, but you can bet there are more than you can shake a stick at in English. Or in history. Or in any Western humanities subject. If I wanted to avoid WASPs, hell, I'd have to avoid some of my professors too.

P.S. As for Italians and Irish? Didn't really get to know them until I did my doctorate at Oxford U. Have to say they were lots nicer than the Irish-Americans and Italian-Americans I knew in HS.


Asian Dominatrix    Thursday, January 31, 2002 at 17:59:06 (PST)
Yes quite seriously the reason I would pursue a WF over an AF isn't because that's the way I wanted it. What choice do alot of us have? It's the same with my sisters, AF cousins, friend's sisters and AF cousins too; they're all with WM.

Wasn't that the original complaint? That it's the AMs who aren't getting a fair shake from the AFs!

Well I find alot of WFs are fairly open minded towards us AMs so unless if I get that same treatment from AFs, I'll probably go with a WF.
Canadian AM    Thursday, January 31, 2002 at 16:18:10 (PST)
Asian Dominatrix,

Thank you. However, their lifestyle sounds like a computer-like algorithm.
FOP    Thursday, January 31, 2002 at 13:04:44 (PST)
Asian Dominatrix:

Plenty of DARs at the University of Virginia, Virginia Tech, University of Alabama, University of Georgia and several southern schools. When I applied to become a US citizen, the DARs wanted to give me lessons in American politics. However, it was about a year after the 1986 elections..and I began to discuss the results of the elections, incuding how Richard Shelby upset Jeremiah Denton in the Alabama Senate race. They did not have any clue, and they told me that I did not need any lessons. Of course, I was not tested on US affairs either..they just gave me the citizenship.

The DARs have monopolized the US Presidency..the only exception was John Kennedy who was assasinated. John Kennedy was lineage was 100% Irish refugees from Potato Famine. None of his ancestors were here at the time of the American Revolution. Needless to say the DAR was unhappy with his election and he was also a catholic. The descendants of Mayflower and DARs have monopolized Presidential politics. At the local level, the Irish broke the power of the New England Brahmins across that region (along with the Greeks). The Italians broke it in New York and New Jersey, and the East Europeans broke it in California and Ohio. The WASP minority power is still in place in both Illinois and Michigan, although the white ethnics and minorities are now in the majority. In Minnesota and upper midwest the Scandinavians control everything.

Kevin Yang:

As I told you, my experience in my family was that the whites who were descended from Mayflower and DAR are not very accepting, whereas the whites descended from recent immigrants (1900s) are more accepting. Actually, the story about your cousin is pretty revolting. I wonder if the reaction would have been the same if your cousin's wife had married a light skinned Greek, Arab or Turk. I know of one WASP family who believes in skin tones...if you are light, even if you are an Arab you are OK. There was this WASP chap who was dating a Chinese woman. His parents broke them up because she was not white or for that matter even light ..similar story to Asian Dominatrix's cousin. He ended up marrying a white skinned Palestinian red-haired woman, whose brother was in the the Taliban and the FBI ended up interogating her and her husband's family.
Asian American Male    Thursday, January 31, 2002 at 12:11:12 (PST)

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