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GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
ARE IVY DEGREES WORTH THE SACRIFICES
ending their kids to ivy league universities is the dream of every Asian American parent. Or so it seems. And there is no shortage of young AA willing to oblige. As of 2000, Asian Americans made up 12-19% of the undergrad enrollments of the top-20 ivy league universities.
No one questions the prestige associated with ivy degrees. In fact, sneer critics, that's the only thing bought with the extra money. And even that, they add, is wearing thin in a nation in which he cultural center of gravity has shifted to California.
It's true that investments in high ivy tuitions often don't show up in career earnings when compared with graduates of public universities of comparable student body profiles. But the criticisms run deeper than return on investment. Some Asian Americans who have attended ivy league colleges have come away regretting their decisions for other reasons.
Foremost is the sense that the ivies are structured for the benefit of legatees, the progeny of blueblooded alumni. Comprising upwards of 40% of some ivies, the legatees are often exempted from stringent admissions standards. The result is that AA students with excellent credentials are the workhorses preserving the institutions' high academic reputations, thereby giving a free ride to undeserving legatees.
Another common complaint is that the deck is stacked socially against Asian males in a system designed to preserve the princely status quo of the scions of WASP families. A disproportionate number of attractive AA females are admitted by the ivies, some have observed, while far fewer attractive AA males are admitted. This subtle bias, suspect critics, is implemented in the screening interviews used by most ivies.
Then there's the Eurocentric worldview imposed by the courses. Not to mention the lousy weather, bland food and having to put up with locals hostile toward Asians. Contrast all this against the majority-ease lifestyles enjoyed by the AA in, say, the UC campuses.
The bragging rights an ivy education affords parents, conclude critics, are far outweighed by the psychic and emotional sacrifices exacted from their kids.
Does an ivy education provide rewards commensurate with the sacrifices? Or is it a trap for AA with overzealous parents with old-world views?
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:01:16 PM)
there is no need to question that. The question is how fair will the process be for Asian. Will we have to fight hard like the blacks? Will we just be assimilated like the Irish and Italians? For various reasons I don't see either one being the case for Asian in America.
Most elite university have set the student body distribution to reflect the USA population distribution. So Asian usually are the "over-represented" minority in those institutions because we are more than 4% of the the student body. I haven't seen a university survey in a long time, but last I check Americans of European descent were lumped together and there were no concerns to whether they were over or under reprensented in the student body.
In NYC I see Italian,Irish, and German descendents with supportive infrastructures. Even though Asian are beginning find permenent roots here in the USA. We are still a few generations off to compete on equal footing in this society. Because ethnic infrastructures are not obvious and not regulated by government or PC enlighten people, it is only through time and a non-hostile environment that it will be accomplished.
ROTC and college...don't you have to serve a number of years in the service for them compensating your tuition? Well please don't mislabel a Chinese embassy as an enemy target for a cruise missle. ^_^
AC dropout
Wednesday, December 26, 2001 at 08:30:56 (PST)
DV8 Ragazza,
Actually your knowledge of Moorish influence in Europe couldn't be more flawed and, forgive the expression, "white washed".
It was Moorish (Islamic) influence in math, agriculture, metallurgy, astronomy, medicine, navigation, that spawned the entire Renaissance in Europe. It was Moorish influence which made the Spanish the emergent masters of Europe out of the Dark Ages. Their ships, cannons, navigation, geometry, sword quality were all products of thier exposure to Islamic learning.
You mention the university of Italy as the first European universities. Don't you know that it was Italian contact with Muslims through maritime trade and travel that set the pace for the rise of learning in Italy. This isn't even Eastern historic perception I am sharing. Pick up any high school world history book and it says the same. The Italians and Spanish had the most contact with the learned Muslims hence they demostrated immediacy and importance in Europe at the end of the Dark Ages.
You also demonstrate your ignorance in the subject matter of the Italian universities being unique form the Moorish influence. Let me explain something the concept of modern University came from teh Muslim world. What made the Muslim appraoch unique to institutions that existed before was their concentration on science, math, medicine, math and agriculture.
This infact is the specific contribution of the Moors.
Another massive misconcpetion you carry is the classic western phobea that Islam was a religion of the sword, when infact the history of Islam clearly proves conversion through peaceful means.
Also the Islamic poltical system at that time was so far advanced and so much more tolerant, nearly all the Jews of Europe prefferred to live uder the civilzed laws of Moorish Spain then take thier chances in the wild, unpredictable, intolerant lands of Christian Europe. No Christian European country tolerated religious deviation on pain of death by being burtn alive. Moorish Spain contained Muslims, Jews and Christians who conexited without any major civil disturbances. Granted there was a clear higherarchy that favored Muslims, the minorities under thier controll did not have to be worried about being slaughtered for being "heathens".
Also slavery existed in Europe for a long time. In every war in Europe, the losing side were taken as slaves and treated like animals, while in the Islamic world the laws of slavery say that a slave must wear the same clothing as his master, eat the same food, and sleep in a bed as fine as himself. Didn't yo know that the marriage of a slave to the duaghter of the master was a very common occurance? Didn't you know that the Gauri empire and Seljuk empires of Anitolia were given to the slaves of the Master who counquered them. Meaning the king of those empires were originally slaves.
Finally the intolerence and force feeding of religion by the Moors, was almost non-existent compared to what happened around the rest of Europe. Ironically no people in Europe learned that better then the Moors themselves, who when finally defeated 700 years later were given the 2 choices of converting or dying (this practice included the Jews too). It was their murderers and pupils, the Spanish, who became the lords of Europe for some 250 years. It was the exposure to Muslim sailors and culture that made Italy (Venice specifically) the seat of all arts and science in Europe for many years to come. When that Islamic knowledge finally trickled onto western Europe then the former SOuthern European powers were deposed as well.
I suggest you stick to top topics you have some knowledge in. Your knowledge of Islamic history is so poor and so revisionist that I am forced to question the validity of the rest of your opinions concerning Asia and Asians.
Makadu
Monday, December 24, 2001 at 12:04:05 (PST)
AC: Oh, I was just noting some of the similarities between this site and sites for Italiani and Germans I've seen. It just caught me off-guard. On the whole I still consider the Asian, Italian, and German ethnic groups to be very different.
I think ethnic studies courses are cool, so long as they're taken for the right reasons. For ex. when I go to grad school next yr, I'll be joining the Air Force ROTC program, focusing on the field of Intelligence. You can go a lot farther in that field if you've put in some time studying different cultures and languages. But the trouble with some people is that they don't use ethnic studies courses to build a good career. They could study that stuff and then go into anthropology, writing, journalism, translation and other stuff but they don't so it's often a waste. In cases like that, people are better off borrowing some books on the subject, and spending their money on other classes.
I don't trust political correctness, as it just seems like a modern version of old-world religious censorship. Certain things I advocate like maintaining ethnic diversity over the "melting pot" idea just don't go over well. Overall, I tend to believe that ethnic groups could, would, and do get along alot better when they aren't obsessively competing with one another, and worrying about who's done what.
DV8 Ragazza
Monday, December 24, 2001 at 09:10:22 (PST)
It's a common myth that the Moors kept ciilization going in Europe because honestly, they were indeed one of the advanced cultures of their day. However it's quite inaccurate to say they kept the torch burning. Yes, the Moors brought a lot of good things, but they also brought slavery, oppression, and force-fed Islam wherever they went. Their invasions are part of the reason Sicilia is poorer and less industrialized than the rest of Italia. Truth be told, the infamous Mafia partly owes it's creation to Moor oppression (even the word "Mafia" comes from the Arabic language, referring to refugees fleeing Arab tyranny).
Europe's first university was founded in Bologna during the dark ages. Universities also popped up in Napoli, Salerno, Palermo(long after Sicilia took down the Arabs), and other places. What's interesting is that despite all the Hell religion was raising at the time, the universities were more focused on science, law, ecc than religious studies. One could hardly credit the Moors with all of this.
I can't say I disagree about the Taliban. Ironically, the present-day Arab tyrants aren't all that different from the ones who invaded Sicilia in the past.
DV8 Ragazza
Monday, December 24, 2001 at 08:03:09 (PST)
AC: Not too long ago reports came out that the Asian and Hispanic populations of California are steadily turning "whites" into a minority group. Therefore, Asians are not "over-represented", they're roughly where they ought to be. Also, comparisons between the Asian pop at California institutions(or in Cali as a whole) and the rest of the USA(or at least most states in it) are kind of silly. By your logic, Italian-Americans(the 5th largest American ethnic group) and German-Americans(the largest ethnic group in America) are *very* overrepresented. Not only do we have major representation in the business and tech worlds, but also the military, education and politics. Though I could use the emphasis you put on Asian contributions and claim the same several times over for my own people, I don't. I simply don't see the point in that.
Regarding Buddhists, as I said previously Buddhism was brought *to* the Chinese(from India). When I mentioned Buddhism I was speaking of Asian ideologies(that's *all* of Asia) that were passed down and around. Therefore I don't understand the emphasis you keep putting on Chinese culture(it's only natural they'd treat Buddhism as a "foreign thing"...it *was* foreign). Given that I spoke of it as a "historic" institution, your comments about modern Chinese testing seem misplaced.
DV8 Ragazza
Monday, December 24, 2001 at 06:52:23 (PST)
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