ARE IVY DEGREES WORTH THE SACRIFICES

ending their kids to ivy league universities is the dream of every Asian American parent. Or so it seems. And there is no shortage of young AA willing to oblige. As of 2000, Asian Americans made up 12-19% of the undergrad enrollments of the top-20 ivies.
     No one questions the prestige associated with ivy degrees. In fact, sneer critics, that's the only thing bought with the extra money. And even that, they add, is wearing thin in a nation in which he cultural center of gravity has shifted to California.
     It's true that investments in high ivy tuitions often don't show up in career earnings when compared with graduates of public universities of comparable student body profiles. But the criticisms run deeper than return on investment. Some Asian Americans who have attended ivy league colleges have come away regretting their decisions for other reasons.
     Foremost is the sense that the ivies are structured for the benefit of legatees, the progeny of blueblooded alumni. Comprising upwards of 40% of some ivies, the legatees are often exempted from stringent admissions standards. The result is that AA students with excellent credentials are the workhorses preserving the institutions' high academic reputations, thereby giving a free ride to undeserving legatees.
     Another common complaint is that the deck is stacked socially against Asian males in a system designed to preserve the princely status quo of the scions of WASP families. A disproportionate number of attractive AA females are admitted by the ivies, some have observed, while far fewer attractive AA males are admitted. This subtle bias, suspect critics, is implemented in the screening interviews used by most ivies.
     Then there's the Eurocentric worldview imposed by the courses. Not to mention the lousy weather, bland food and having to put up with locals hostile toward Asians. Contrast all this against the majority-ease lifestyles enjoyed by the AA in, say, the UC campuses.
     The bragging rights an ivy education affords parents, conclude critics, are far outweighed by the psychic and emotional sacrifices exacted from their kids.
     Does an ivy education provide rewards commensurate with the sacrifices? Or is it a trap for AA with overzealous parents with old-world views?

(Updated )

I sh-- on the AAs who go to the ivies. It means they don't know or care about participating in an AA community to learn about self: Outwhiting the white. Or it means they couldnt't get into the UCs.
Wing Wang Wong
   Tuesday, March 26, 2002 at 23:22:53 (PST)
"If it is such a great thing to go to an Ivy school,then how come in the New York law firm of Skadden, Flom Meagher & Arps, there were 15 associates who got their undergraduate degrees from Suny Binghamton. There were 13 associates in the same firm who went to Brown and 15 associates who got their undergraduate degrees from Dartmouth."

Who you know rather than what you know. If you go down to Alabama, you would not see anyone from any northern school. The "best" would be from University of Virginia or Texas. After all no one can sue DAs, defense lawyers and the AGs for wrongful conviction. The thug who railroaded two Hispanic men in a murder case, is now running for the Governor of Illinois. In engineering you have to hire the best..which happens to be Asian...otherwise faulty products mean the corporation has a lawsuit in its hand. Repeal the product liability law and then see how many Asians they hire in engineering.

Asian American Male
   Tuesday, March 26, 2002 at 09:41:15 (PST)
Biaknabato,

You might also want to look at the law schools that some of the attorneys attended. There is an overall higher representation of Ivy League schools for both undergraduate and law school. I strongly suspect the Ivy percentages at the top firms are higher than the telephone book personal injury firms.

As you have haphazardly shown, attending a non-Ivy League school does not necessarily exclude you from a top law firm. It does however make it more difficult to initially get the job. Thus I would not characterize an Ivy League education as "not worth it" but as "not absoulutely necessary."

What would make it impossible to get a top law firm job is if you committed a gaffe such as calling the firm of Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom as Skadden, Flom, Meagher & Arps during an interview.

Cheers.
Yellow Panther
   Tuesday, March 26, 2002 at 08:10:05 (PST)
biaknabato--

Did you learn statistics from a state school or something?
ka
   Monday, March 25, 2002 at 08:34:11 (PST)
Folks:

If it is such a great thing to go to an Ivy school,then how come in the New York law firm of Skadden, Flom Meagher & Arps, there were 15 associates who got their undergraduate degrees from Suny Binghamton. There were 13 associates in the same firm who went to Brown and 15 associates who got their undergraduate degrees from Dartmouth.

Princeton did not fare much better, there were about 18 associates
in that firm who got their undergrad degree from Old Nassau.

At the blue - blooded firm of Cravath , Swaine & Moore in their New York office litigation dept., this following data will tell you the story.

Exactly 1 associate in the Cravath litigation dept. 's New York office graduated from the following schools:CUNY Baruch, CUNY Queens, CUNY Hunter and NYU.

Well, if your only ambition in life is to become an associate at the Cravath litigation dept. New York office, it seems that paying the expensive tuition at NYU is not worth it.

biaknabato
   Thursday, March 21, 2002 at 19:46:32 (PST)
"For domestic AA's, I think that it's an important step to being included in the privileged class, if that's your goal."

An Asian American getting a PhD from Harvard is equivalent to a white person getting a PhD from Purdue or Indiana University. A white PhD from Harvard has a higher status than an Asian American PhD from Harvard. Skin unfortunately still does play a major role.

"Overall, I would like to see more AA representation in areas other than the natural sciences, more AA professors, etc."

AAs are hired not because of their better qualifications as compared to whites (although this may be true) but because natural and physical sciences are subject to lawsuit. For example if an aircraft goes down over Cambridge, MA, the company would have a law suit in its hands. Poor engineering work means poor performance, which means lives are lost, which means they cannot hire mediocre people. It does not matter who they hire in literature...a profession not subject to lawsuit...so the whites dominate.

Overzealous parents come in all races, so factoring them out I would say if that's your goal, by all means attend an Ivy League school.

If you have the money!


Asian American Male
   Thursday, March 21, 2002 at 08:24:48 (PST)
Save your money for grad school!,

But how many little ponds are out there. Is it easier to be at the 1% at a rank 100 institution, or to be at the top 10% of a rank 10 instituion.

It really depends on the individual and goals.
AC Dropout
   Wednesday, March 20, 2002 at 12:09:50 (PST)

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