ARE IVY DEGREES WORTH THE SACRIFICES

ending their kids to ivy league universities is the dream of every Asian American parent. Or so it seems. And there is no shortage of young AA willing to oblige. As of 2000, Asian Americans made up 12-19% of the undergrad enrollments of the top-20 ivies.
     No one questions the prestige associated with ivy degrees. In fact, sneer critics, that's the only thing bought with the extra money. And even that, they add, is wearing thin in a nation in which he cultural center of gravity has shifted to California.
     It's true that investments in high ivy tuitions often don't show up in career earnings when compared with graduates of public universities of comparable student body profiles. But the criticisms run deeper than return on investment. Some Asian Americans who have attended ivy league colleges have come away regretting their decisions for other reasons.
     Foremost is the sense that the ivies are structured for the benefit of legatees, the progeny of blueblooded alumni. Comprising upwards of 40% of some ivies, the legatees are often exempted from stringent admissions standards. The result is that AA students with excellent credentials are the workhorses preserving the institutions' high academic reputations, thereby giving a free ride to undeserving legatees.
     Another common complaint is that the deck is stacked socially against Asian males in a system designed to preserve the princely status quo of the scions of WASP families. A disproportionate number of attractive AA females are admitted by the ivies, some have observed, while far fewer attractive AA males are admitted. This subtle bias, suspect critics, is implemented in the screening interviews used by most ivies.
     Then there's the Eurocentric worldview imposed by the courses. Not to mention the lousy weather, bland food and having to put up with locals hostile toward Asians. Contrast all this against the majority-ease lifestyles enjoyed by the AA in, say, the UC campuses.
     The bragging rights an ivy education affords parents, conclude critics, are far outweighed by the psychic and emotional sacrifices exacted from their kids.
     Does an ivy education provide rewards commensurate with the sacrifices? Or is it a trap for AA with overzealous parents with old-world views?

(Updated )

"do you really think race is that important when the there is such a huge difference in the school rankings though? through experience, i haven't found that to be the case."

Depends on where you are. In Alabama and other southern states they are suspicious of the ivies. They would rather hire a white southerner from a southern law school. May not be the case in New York or California

Crimson Tide
   Monday, April 08, 2002 at 09:36:56 (PDT)
asian dominatrix:

do you really think race is that important when the there is such a huge difference in the school rankings though? through experience, i haven't found that to be the case.
penelope
   Friday, April 05, 2002 at 10:56:01 (PST)
"Let's think about it here. You are a hiring partner with one set of inteview slots left. There are two resumes. One guy graduated from Albany Law School and the other from Harvard Law School. Both guys made law review, etc. Both are straight out of law school. Both appear to have WASP last names. You do not know either personally. "

Hmmm....guess the question now is what happens if the guy from Harvard is Asian and the one from Albany is white.
Asian Dominatrix
   Thursday, April 04, 2002 at 10:45:06 (PST)
Biaknabato,

Look at the LAW SCHOOLS that partners and associates came from. It is far more relevant than the undergraduate school at top firms.

Your initial data only proves that a non-Ivy league education does not completely exclude you from a top firm. I do not disagree with this. My argument is that coming from an Ivy league law school improves your chances greatly at a top law firm, all other things being equal. I encourage you to do some additional research. You will find a fairly significant correlation.

Let's think about it here. You are a hiring partner with one set of inteview slots left. There are two resumes. One guy graduated from Albany Law School and the other from Harvard Law School. Both guys made law review, etc. Both are straight out of law school. Both appear to have WASP last names. You do not know either personally. Your alma mater is not either school. Who are you going to select? The guy from Albany may actually be the better attorney but I assure you that most of the top firms will interview the individual from Harvard first. And no, it is not solely at Cravath.

Further compounding the problem is the fact that many of the new hires at top firms come from summer associate classes where it is even less likely to get an interview coming from a lower ranked school.

You are somewhat correct in saying that it is your work record that counts. The ones that graduated from lower ranked schools had to work their way up at smaller firms making a name for themselves before they were recruited by the big firms. The path to become a well-paid white-collar slave is much more difficult for these individuals than their Ivy league peers.

Who are you talking about with respect to the Microsoft litigation (I usually use the phrase "bout" when talking about boxing)? The lead partner representing Microsoft was Richard Urowsky (Yale, J.D. 1972, University of Oxford, B. Phil 1970, Yale, B.A. 1967)of Sullivan & Cromwell. Has this changed? Look at some of the other attorneys as listed on the June 28, 2001 Appeals Court ruling. Places like Dartmouth, Harvard, University of Virginia, and University of Pennsylvania show up.

In the end I take the Libertarian/Neal Boortz approach and insist that you don't believe anything I say and research everything yourself.

A good reference is the book entitled, "The Winner Take All Society" by Robert Frank and Phillip Cook.

Do you really think messing up the name of the firm you interview with is trivial? Again I encourage you to test it out. Let me know if you get that job with Touche and Deloitte or Sachs Goldman. I believe that those names are also names of deceased partners.

Gan Bei.
Yellow Panther
   Tuesday, April 02, 2002 at 00:26:52 (PST)
Wing Wang Wong,

You're strange. A majority college campus has enough asians on it, for the "soul searching" asian to find themselves if they choose.
AC Dropout
   Monday, April 01, 2002 at 16:01:58 (PST)

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