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GOLDSEA |
ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
ARE IVY DEGREES WORTH THE SACRIFICES
nding their kids to elite universities is the dream of every Asian American parent. Or so it seems. And there is no shortage of young AA willing to oblige. As of 2000, Asian Americans made up 12-19% of the undergrad enrollments of the top-20 ivies.
No one questions the prestige associated with ivy degrees. In fact, sneer critics, that's the only thing bought with the extra money. And even that, they add, is wearing thin in a nation in which he cultural center of gravity has shifted to California.
It's true that investments in high ivy tuitions often don't show up in career earnings when compared with graduates of public universities of comparable student body profiles. But the criticisms run deeper than return on investment. Some Asian Americans who have attended ivy league colleges have come away regretting their decisions for other reasons.
Foremost is the sense that the ivies are structured for the benefit of legatees, the progeny of blueblooded alumni. Comprising upwards of 40% of some ivies, the legatees are often exempted from stringent admissions standards. The result is that AA students with excellent credentials are the workhorses preserving the institutions' high academic reputations, thereby giving a free ride to undeserving legatees.
Another common complaint is that the deck is stacked socially against Asian males in a system designed to preserve the princely status quo of the scions of WASP families. A disproportionate number of attractive AA females are admitted by the ivies, some have observed, while far fewer attractive AA males are admitted. This subtle bias, suspect critics, is implemented in the screening interviews used by most ivies.
Then there's the Eurocentric worldview imposed by the courses. Not to mention the lousy weather, bland food and having to put up with locals hostile toward Asians. Contrast all this against the majority-ease lifestyles enjoyed by the AA in, say, the UC campuses.
The bragging rights an ivy education affords parents, conclude critics, are far outweighed by the psychic and emotional sacrifices exacted from their kids.
Does an ivy education provide rewards commensurate with the sacrifices? Or is it a trap for AA with overzealous parents with old-world views?
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:00:58 PM)
Observer:
I was trying to encourage the white fellow, and white students in general who feel bummed out and frustrated.
White students CAN compete with Asians in sciences or any other discipline. But they need to work much harder than they do now.
Commentary (KA)
Tuesday, August 13, 2002 at 21:23:17 (PDT)
Three letters N-Y-U. Better than most ivies in my opinion.
CAESAR
Tuesday, August 13, 2002 at 00:12:36 (PDT)
[The posts below have been moved from the White Perspective on Asian Americans page. --Ed]
I agree with Admissions in Ivy, because that appears to be the case with almost every person I know that has applied to an Ivy League college, both from "overrepresented and underrepresented states."
In fact, I recently applied to several Ivy League colleges and ended up getting accepted and matriculated into a non-Ivy League school. I am from Boston, had good grades, and was qualified by any standards to apply to Ive League colleges, and I thought I would surely get in.
The same scenario played out for my friends as well as for me: applied to several Ivy_league colleges with maybe one or two "safe" schools, got accpeted to some of my top choices, but on the whole, usually got differed then rejected..and most of my friends that this happened to were from BOston or New York..it seems the regional quotas are what is mainly keeping qualified Asians out of the top Ivy League schools, although this is solely based on my own experiences..
Whereas, I know an Asian American from Montana, that did not do as well as my friends and I, that got accpeted to almost ALL the Ivy League colleges she applied to.
Please note that I said she had "lesser"
qualifications, meaning less extra-curriculars, a lower GPA, lower SAt scores, etc, etc..she was not totally misqualified. yet she was accpeted to almost every single Ivy LEague school..
In any case, the luck of the draw seems to be about right in describing the whole application/acceptance process.
A Girl
Monday, August 12, 2002 at 21:16:15 (PDT)
As an addendum to last post, also interesting is that out of the top 10 rankedd, only 2 were male. And in the top 20 I think there only 5 or 6 males. Not sure if this distribution is just my class but a humbling blow to the male ego nonetheless.
Multiplication is better than Division
Monday, August 12, 2002 at 19:01:19 (PDT)
Admissions in Ivy,
Does not surprise me. Back in high school ('94), out of the top 10 ranked out of 300+, 5 were AAF and there was only 1 AAM (ranked 7 or 8 I believe (lower than any of the AAFs except for 1)). And this was in a very competitive admissions based public high school (one of those consistently top ranked in the nation).
We also had almost 20 National Merit Finalists. I think like 6 were AAF and 5 were AAM.
Therefore I grew up thinking AAF as very smart, even more so than us AAM. In fact, a lot of my AAM friends did not even make it to the top 100 and some even dropped out (one guy just gave up because his GPA was beyond hope. He told me he would rather work so he can afford souping up his car and that his GPA was beyond hope anyways. Interestingly enough I think his GPA got to that point because of his car). As a result I think there were also more AAF in my class than AAM.
Multiplication is better than Division
Monday, August 12, 2002 at 18:41:12 (PDT)
Commentary (AM),
Your post sounds weird. That guy came on here to encourage you.
How come you're giving a white guy who compliments asians a hard time?
Now granted, he's probably a nerdy fat white guy with a fetish for asian men, but at least he's providing positive feedback to the asian community.
Man you really can't say the right thing to some people.
Political Observer
Monday, August 12, 2002 at 15:56:09 (PDT)
A white female wrote:
"20% of blacks are in the top 20%, another 30% spread out in the middle and the rest pretty much at the bottom."
But earlier she wrote: "60% of blacks were scattered among the bottom 20%."
I am no mathematician but, doesn't 60% + 30% + 20% = 110%? I know it's tough to keep all the numbers straight. Like is it 5 or 6 AFs who scored perfect on the GRE?
You also speak of the GRE as though it was the SAT. The GRE has three parts, you mentioned in detail the math and verbal parts, but what ever happened to the analytical portion? It's pretty safe to assume you were talking about general undergraduate admissions since you talked about which regions the applicants came from (graduate programs don't care about that, they care about where you got your undergraduate degree) and also the numbers you quoted would be too large for any particular graduate program anyway, since each college has their own separate admissions criteria for graduate students. Here's the point I am getting to, income undergraduate students don't take the GRE, but the SAT. Maybe you got the SAT confused with the GRE? I also liked how you determine who is jewish or not by keeping a tally of last names... you are not really an admissions officer nor a white female are you? You sure don't seem very knowledgable of your profession.
Deng Ai
Monday, August 12, 2002 at 12:02:23 (PDT)
Valley Chinese Dude,
Give a top college kid a chance and he'll catch up and surpass the people with experience. Talent in the end will win the day.
Grung
Wednesday, August 07, 2002 at 13:04:18 (PDT)
College Student, Zero Experience,
Read books, go to trade shows and conventions, network with other professionals in your field. Those are some of the things to stay ahead. Of course, that's probably not feasible for you since you're still in school. For your situation, I suggest trying to find an internship somewhere. But even nowadays it seems like internships are also harder to find than before so if you have no other choice, try for some of those unpaid ones. They may pay off in the long run with all the skills/experience you pick up. Sometimes the company may like you and extend a full-time offer to you after you graduate. That happened to me when I was working part-time at this place and they offered me a full-time position upon receipt of my BS in computer science.
But if you can't find a job, then just read and try to teach yourself these skills. Take a look at the classifieds or online postings to get an idea of what's in demand. If you don't know these languages then learn them inside and out: C/C++, Java, Visual Basic, XML. And then dive into J2EE and .NET. I know that's a mouthful but these skills will be around for a while and once you learn a few languages thoroughly, others will be easier to pick up.
To the editor: sorry for getting off topic. I know this thread is supposed to be about the pros/cons of an Ivy League education. Someone made the comment that in IT, experience was more valuable than a formal education/degree and that an Ivy degree was not as critical in the IT field to be successful as in other fields. I agree with this statement based on my own experience and what I've seen in the years since I've graduated college and worked as a software engineer in private industry.
Valley Chinese Dude
Tuesday, August 06, 2002 at 22:20:30 (PDT)
If your in college its kind of hard to keep up. I mean technology comes and goes so quickly. Cold fusion anyone?
Best get hired by a company and find out what niche of the tech field you want to be in. It will be easier to keep up once you decide what field and industry you want to be in.
AC Dropout
Tuesday, August 06, 2002 at 16:40:15 (PDT)
What are some of the things tech professionals do to stay ahead? I've read in another dicussion group of one guy who would read a book each month and keep his eyes peeled for anything new in the discussion groups. There's no way this can be adequate. Help me out guys, I'm in a bind.
College Student, Zero Experience
Friday, August 02, 2002 at 15:59:07 (PDT)
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