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AF/WM Couple Goes from Friendship to Engagement

am writing to tell some of you in this forum about how I, an AF, came to be involved with my fiancée Matt, a WM. I realize that some of my AA brothers and sister's won't like some elements of this, however, I am asking you to please read all the way to the end of this post before passing judgement.

I had always figured I'd end up with an AM. I'd dated mostly AMs and the occasional Hapa. I am proud of my Viet ancestry. I was raised with the notion that Viet guys were the best, followed by other Asians who weren't Japanese or Chinese. Dating a White guy would anger my dad, but not to the point of being disowned. Dating Japanese, Chinese, Latin or Black guys would put me out on the street.

During my freshman year in college, I pledged an AA sorority and did the usual run of parties with the Lepps, hung out with the AAs in my major and so forth. I'd been hit on by a number of White and Black guys, but I brushed them off when they asked for dates.

During my Junior year of college, I eventually made friends with a few White girls in the dorms and would go out with them sometimes instead of my AA friends. I also made friends with a couple White guys too, but I'd always say "Bye!" when my AA friends would approach and go hang with them. This garnered me a few quizzical looks from my sorority sisters and from my AA clique, but most folks seemed to blow it off.

However, there was this one White guy, Matt, whom I became friends with. I would always run into him at the Student Union or walking around campus. It was easy to talk to Matt because he was a friend of one of the White girls I hung with at the dorm. We'd drink coffee together sometimes and have really interesting conversations. Matt would talk nicely to me and ask all kinds of questions of me about my interests, music I liked, my background, my ancestry, about Vietnam, etc. I figured this was all just "coffee and conversation" like you see college students doing together and that there was no interest on his part whatsoever. There certainly was none on mine.

After I knew him about six weeks, Matt asked me for tips what he would need to do if he wanted to date an Asian American girl. I was like "Huh?" He then explained to me that he'd always wanted to date an Asian American girl, but was never sure on how to approach them if were interested in them romantically. He wanted to know what to talk about, if he had to practice certain types of manners that were different from dealing with other types of people and such. This flabbergasted me because I didn't get any kind of vibe from Matt that he was interested in me or any other Asian girl in that way.

My first reaction was to ask Matt why he wanted to date an Asian girl. He basically said he'd always had the impression that Asian girls were smart, sweet, nice, and good lovers. Some of this sounded like he'd watched too many productions of "South Pacific" or "Shogun" and I was about ready to slap him. However, I then asked him where he got those ideas. He cited some of the "usual suspects"--Keiko O'Brien from the "Star Trek" series, some observations he'd made of a buddy of his who had an AA girlfriend and experiences talking with a few AA girls on a superficial level.

I thought for a minute about telling Matt to not talk to me anymore, because I didn't want to make some Asian American girl a victim of a White guy with an Asian fetish. However, at the same time he seemed sincere about wanting to really know an Asian woman and wasn't just looking for a "piece of yellow ass" to add to his collection. I figured that this guy was probably on the borderline between becoming an Asian fetishist and a genuine guy who just wanted to know Asian people better.

I got businesslike with him: "Matt, do you really want to know about Asian Americans as a people or are you just looking for an "easy Yellow Lay'?" He said "No Denise, I'm not looking for some Asian girl to fulfill some fantasy. I've never really known any Asian Americans beyond a 'small-talk' or classmate level before I knew you. You're the only real friend I have whose Asian!"

I was surprised at him for using the terms "real friend," so I asked "Then why all these questions on how to approach an Asian girl for a date? You talked about some of the other girls whom you dated before, so I presume you have no problems meeting girls in general!" He looked embarrassed and said "There's a couple of Asian girls whom I've found attractive, but I never had the guts to go up to them, flirt and ask for their numbers because I was scared they'd think I was a fetishist or something. Plus, since I didn't know any Asians on a deep level, I felt like I wasn't worthy to talk to them or something. I guess the reason why I talked to you was because we had a friend in common and, unlike those other girls, you were approachable."

I decided that since Matt had asked me honest questions and hadn't put on a pretense or hit on me that I would educate him on Asian Americans. I did this initially to save him from his own ignorance as well as to save some Asian girl from a potential fetishist. "All right, Matt." I said "Since you've been mostly harmless, I can teach you some things. But I want you to understand a couple of things: First, I can't educate you about all Asian Americans because there are so many different ancestries. There are some commonalaties to our cultures, but you can't group us all together just like you can't group all Whites together for the same reason. Second, do not even get any hopes into your head that I am going to date you or become romantically involved with you. It's not going to happen, and if you start hitting on me or acting like you're courting me, then I don't want to talk to you anymore. Got it?"

Matt agreed, and thus I began to give him the low down on Vietnamese culture. I broke him of the habit of using Oriental instead of "East Asian." I also helped him understand why Asian Americans are ticked at they’re portrayals in TV and the movies. He learned why Lunar New Year is such a big deal and why some Asian guys are ticked when White guys date Asian girls. I taught him how to use chopsticks and not to knock four times on the door. I brought him to a couple of mixers with the VSA and some Vietnamese restaurants so he'd know what the food was and how to eat it. On his own, he learned the difference between Cantonese, Hunan, Vietnamese, Korean and Japanese food. By the end of the year, Matt was a lot less ignorant about Asian Americans and Asian culture, and he'd also become a treasured friend to me.

I ended up going to Summer School before my senior year. It was in part because Matt was going. I figured it would be easier to deal with the stress if I had a good friend there to hang with rather than be there feeling all alone while my other friends (AA and otherwise) had gone home. Our University was hosting a Cheerleader camp during the first summer session and they were staying in the same dorm as I was. They were so freaking noisy that I ended up studying in his apartment and sleeping on the couch in order to get peace and quiet.

However, during the second summer session, Vince (not his real name--a guy from the VSA in whom I'd been interested) was taking a class with me. He asked me out on several dates and I went with him, having a great time in the process. I told Matt all about it, and even though I saw his eyes droop, he smiled and said he was happy for me. I started spending more time with Vince and less with Matt. I didn’t get as much studying done and I got a B because of it. Matt didn't complain or give me any grief about it, but just told me that he was there for me if I needed him.

However, I could tell by some subtle tone in his voice that he was probably a little hurt or jealous. I felt a little guilty too, because many times when I was lonely, I'd call him and he'd be there for me. Still, I stuck to my guns and told him that I wasn't going to date him and that if he started acting jealous or like he was a beau, I wouldn't talk to him again. He sighed and said that I didn't have to worry about it--all he wanted was for me to be happy and for us to stay friends.

When Fall Semester arrived, I accepted Vince's Lepp pin and figured things were going to get serious. Matt just kept on smiling and offered his congratulations, even though I didn't get to see him as much. Plus, Vince said a few times that it didn't look right for me to be so close to Matt when we were dating, and out of respect for Vince, I toned my friendship with Matt down. Matt understood and just kept plugging along.

Things changed drastically around mid-term when I found out through an acquaintance in the VSA that Matt had started dating a gal from the VSA named Vanessa (not her real name). Vanessa was notorious among my girlfriends for using guys for a bunch of nice dinners and other freebies and then dumping them. Matt was oblivious to this because she was quite attractive and charming. I think he was a little blinded by this and because he genuinely liked her. I even tried to warn Matt, but he said that he didn't think that the rumors were true and that while he appreciated my concern, he could take care of himself. I still wasn't too happy about it--Matt was my dear friend. I didn't want this opportunistic wench to break his heart.

I griped to Vince about it for about half an hour, and his response was that I should mind my own business. He also got mad that I was so worried about Matt getting hurt. Something about having a boyfriend meant that I shouldn't be so concerned about a guy friend "if he were just a friend." That made me really mad, because I'd backed away from my friendship with Matt out of respect for Vince.

Who was I sleeping with most nights? Whose fraternity pin was I wearing? Who was of the same ancestry as me and would satisfy my father's desires for me? Who was the guy whom I'd had a crush on for almost a semester before he finally asked me out? I asked Vince all those questions, but he claimed that was all window-dressing. Vince thought I was, as he put it, having "Sherwood-Forest Fever", "curious about Matt in a romantic way" and "only dating him out of a sense of obligation to my culture and to avoid being labeled whitewashed." Vince and I had a huge fight after he said that crap. I could not believe that he was trying to accuse me of being a wannabe-whitewashed sell-out who was White-curious and only dating him for appearances. I tore off his Lepp pin and stabbed it into his thigh and left his apartment.

On the way back to my dorm, I was fighting back tears and totally enraged. I was NOT in love with Matt. I was in love with Vince and yet he didn’t believe me. After walking about 10 blocks, I sat down on a park bench in one of the groves on campus and sulked. I was close enough to a well-lit area to see a couple about 20 feet away from me. It was Vanessa and Matt, heading back from a party. They were sitting on a park bench talking. I strained my ears to hear what they were saying. It was a surprise.

"Vanessa, I do really like you, but I don’t know if I can ask you out again." Matt said. "Huh? What?" She replied, kind of shocked. "Why are you telling me this, Matt?" "You're beautiful, you're charming, you're sexy--on paper you're everything any guy would want in a girlfriend. But, I realize after going out with you these past couple of weeks, I've wanted someone else all along and I've just gone out with you to see if you could fill her shoes. That's not fair to you and it's wrong of me to do this to you. I'm sorry."

I was trying not to laugh my ass off at this point. The queen "dump truck" was getting dumped before she could do the dumping. Plus, I was glad to see that I wasn't the only one having relationship troubles. I sat there in the dark as things got more interesting though.

Vanessa snorted "It's Denise, isn't it? You've got a crush on her, but since she won't date you, you decided that the next Cute Asian chick would do! I knew it! You're an Asian fetishist!!!" Matt was shocked. "No, Vanessa. Not at all! I think you're very pretty and sexy, but it's just not fair to you when I like someone else. That's it, I swear!" "Humph!" She replied "Then tell me who it is, and maybe I'll believe you!" Matt hesitated. "I can't. It wouldn’t be right to tell you since I haven't told her yet." Vanessa grimaced. "Fine. Don't bother to walk me home--I know the way."

Matt just sat there and watched her walk back to the dorm. The then sat there for a while, all by himself, and then got up and began walking off campus. I watched him walk away and was feeling happy that Vanessa had gotten her just desserts and Matt wasn't going to be her latest victim. I also was feeling better about myself as well, and then it hit me, I'd just broken up with Vince but was more concerned about Matt and his happiness than I'd been about ending a several-month-committed relationship. I began to wonder if Vince had been right about one thing--that I had feelings for Matt that I wouldn't acknowledge because he was White. I had been so determined to get with a Viet or an Asian Guy I didn't even recognize that I really had grown to love Matt during all that time I was "educating" him.

I called my older Cousin, who's married to a White man and we had a long heart to heart about all the different issues that she went through in herself and with her family when she began dating her husband. There were a lot of parallels and after talking with her for a few hours, I felt better about the whole thing. I realized that I loved Matt, and that it had nothing to do with how I felt about my being Asian or Vietnamese. I loved him and I loved my people. I loved him and I loved my culture. I loved him and I loved my family. Those facts were not mutually exclusive and that I didn’t need to hate one in order to love the other.

Matt called me late on the following Saturday morning and asked me to meet him for breakfast. I told him to pick me up. We went to Denny's and at first we made sort of awkward small talk--something we'd never done before. We both had a lot on our minds and finally I addressed the elephant in the room. "Matt, I saw and overheard you and Vanessa on Thursday night. It was good of you to tell her instead of stringing her along." Matt blushed. "Uh… I didn't know we had an audience. I was afraid that she'd call everyone in the VSA or the ASA and put me on an 'Asian Fetishist Blacklist.'" I laughed. "Matt, you went out with Vanessa Truong! Most of VSA would probably shake your hand for what you did!" He laughed too and we began to talk normally again. I told him about how Vince and I had broken up, but not all the specifics. He felt bad about it, but at the same time he said that no matter what, he supported me. After about three hours, the waitress asked if we were going to pay rent for the booth, so we paid our bill and left.

After we drove back to my dorm, we just sat in his car with the windows down and the radio on, talking about all kinds of stuff--family, classes, music, goals for after we graduated, etc. I'd forgotten how easy it was to be with Matt. After those first few months we knew eachother, it was like he was no longer a White guy and I was no longer an Asian girl. That was something which finally occurred to me as we just sat there shooting the breeze.

At that point, I put my seat up and turned to look at him. Here was this brown-haired, green-eyed, handsome guy who had been right under my nose the whole time and I hadn't even noticed until now. "Matt…" I said. He turned and looked me in the eyes. "Yes, Denise?" At that point, I just leaned forward and we began to kiss. Softly at first, and then more intensely. He broke away after a couple of minutes and said "Hold it… Are you doing this because you need me and want to be with me, or just because you need and want someone and I'm convenient? Never mind, don't answer that…" I put my head on his shoulder and whispered in his ear "I am doing this because I need, want and love you, Matt. Because I love you!"

Suffice it to say, we became a solid couple. Granted, we had to deal with some issues with my Dad and Vince was kind of pissed at me. However, since all this went down, we graduated and moved in together. Matt finished his MBA two years ago and is doing very well in his career. I'm in my third year of Medical school and things are going just fine on my end too. We'll be married right before I start my residency and hopefully we'll be in a house not long after.

I guess the crux of my whole story is that a lot of Asian Americans--especially the guys--seem to have some kind of idea that AA girls who date or fall in love with White guys do so easily and hate themselves, their families and/or their culture. I am living proof that stereotype is totally false and that you should look deep into someone's heart before passing judgement.

Denise Huynh
Wednesday, January 02, 2002 at 14:38:02 (PST)


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GOLDSEA | YOUR TRUE STORIES

[NOTE TO READERS: This page is closed to new input. You can post new true stories and continue discussions at the new improved Instant Polls & Comments area. --Ed.]

READER COMMENTS

Chao Denise,

If you are happy and things go well between the two of you I wish you the best of luck! Don't listen to what all these close-minded people on this forum have to say. What I think is that if you want to marry someone of your own culture it's fine... but for some here, when it gets to the point were you don't want to see people dating interracialy well then... move back to your own country. It's as simple as that. You will see viets + viets (or whatever the case may be) and be happy and stop polluting the world with your hate!

Tom Dang, you have REAL issues buddy! Sounds to me as if you lost a good thing and are all sour about it. And there's no way in hell that women were put on this planet to serve an egotistical jerk like you... no women should be serving any man for that matter!

Just my two cents.
Live and Let Live
Tuesday, August 13, 2002 at 22:57:13 (PDT)
Geez, a "He Said, She Said" saga grwoing between Denise and Vinh's posts here. I don't know who to believe.

The truth is best hidden between two lies...
Ryuugekitai
Monday, May 20, 2002 at 05:17:43 (PDT)
This story is eerily familiar, but from the Asian guy's perspective. I was in my first year of community college when I happened to make friends with these two chicas, one was Mexican, the other was Dominican Republican. At first, I was totally blind to the Dominican girls' flirtations with me. I just thought the both of them were just being my friends. We started hanging out after school, mostly, it was me trying to teach them how to drive stick in the parking lot. HOW FUN. No, really. Unfortunately, I never even thought of Claudia (the Dominican hottie) as a potential. I let the whole quarter go by thinking of her just as a friend. Eventually, I ended up hooking with this Pinay sex freak and didn't get to experience Claudia and all that she had to offer.
Nowadays, I'm more open to non-Asian hotties. All I know is that if I had a chance to replay that quarter of college education again, I would've opened up my eyes to seeing the beauty that Dominican girls have.
I know that if the current "me" were to get flirted on by her I would've tapped that ass the minute I saw her. Dang, that girl was a hottie. She has dark skin, darker than my Filipino skin, she also had that accent!
But, i guess there is no way for me to reach her anymore since she went off to join the Air Force and I decided to join the Marine Corps. Hopefully someone will read this story and not make the same mistake. I hope that all the Asian guys reading this don't end up like me and never get the chance to experience someone like Claudia. What really bothers me in retrospect is that fact that she could've been much more of a freak than the girl I eventually hooked up with! =(
PinoyBoy
thaBlockRocker@hotmail.com Thursday, May 16, 2002 at 22:36:59 (PDT)
AF Choosing WM for Husband

I chose my husband who is a white male because i love him for who he is. He doesn't care about interracial marriages. We go places and i notice people staring, but he holds my hand and talks to me like a human being. Other asians may look at us funny, different ethnic groups may look at us funny. We don't give a shit though. i support him and he supports me. that is what a marriage is about. He loves me for WHO I AM. We both know that love for one another is what is keeping us together. We have different backgrounds. i'm mixed. he's not. I have a white american dad and my mom is from Taiwan. i've got even irish blood in me. He doesn't give a damn! that is what matters the most!!!
TiaAngel
Sunday, April 21, 2002 at 17:24:44 (PDT)
Tom Dang:

You sound like a LOSER with a chip on your shoulder against your ex-g/f. Women do not exist on this planet only for the purpose of "loving and serving men." I think that woman of yours will come to her senses and find a better man, AA or otherwise, who'll show her proper respect.

Denise: Good for you in finding love with Matt!

Janet Chang-Hawkins
Sunday, March 10, 2002 at 18:42:27 (PST)
My Side of the Story:

Denise Huynh is the worst kind of self-hating Asian female around. She talks the talk of an Asian prider, but when push comes to shove, she submits to the dorky White man and becomes his little Asian yum-yum. She's the Asian Female version of Malik from Real World back to New York.

How do I know this? Because I was her boyfriend "Vince" during that little John Hughes-esque take on her relationship and marriage to that dork named Matt. Here's my side of the story:

I knew Denise tangentally from the VSA at our university. She was cool and had a lot of friends in and out of the VSA, but was known for having "mostly" Asian friends and for dating "only" Asian guys. The one thing that didn't add up was the fact that she was good friends with this dorky White guy named Matt.

I'd asked around about them, but everyone said "Oh, he's her student in Asian or Vietnamese studies. He's harmless and she's not interested in him, but we think he's got it bad for her." I just kind of laughed it off at that point and decided to make my move.

She was in an Organic Chemistry class with me--I was in the Pharmacy program and she was pre-med, so I decided to see if we could work up a little chemistry of our own. I got her to go with me to a VSA beach barbecue that dorky White Matt wasn't invited to and didn't know about, and we sneaked off into the dunes for some nookie. She was hot--she went to town on me like white on rice. I figured based on her behavior, that she really respected the Asian Man's dick and would be a great g/f for me.

We went on several more dates and got intimate several more times, much to my delight. We seemed to be so in tune with eachother that I figured this was the girl for me. However, there was one issue--I didn't want her to keep on hanging with that White DORK!

I told her that she needed to back off--that she was too close to him for her own good. I also told her told her that it was disrespectful to me as her boyfriend to hang with him too much and that she needed to put some distance between them. She went along with it, but she would still see him sometimes. I figured that once I gave her my pin and my drop, that she'd cut him off completely and there'd be no more issue with that.

However, the little chippee wouldn't totally shut him out--even after meeting my parents and I'd started to hint at the M-word. Somehow, this Cracker had got into her head and she still wanted to talk with him, have coffee with him and so forth on down the line.

I decided to play hardball--if dorkface wanted a hot Asian chick, he'd get one to get him away from MY hot Asian chick. I paid Vanessa Truong 1000 bucks to date this guy through Valentine's day just to get him away from Denise, fulfill his sick White fantasies and settle the matter. She was all to eager to do the deed for him, because she knew that dork had enough money and a nice car to entertain her for a time.

However, the dork cut off a good thing too early and my $1000 was wasted because he had his sights set on my girl. It didn't help that she was getting all bent out of shape about Vanessa and I told her that it was out of line for her to do so. She said I had an inferiority complex and was insecure, which really ticked me off. She couldn't plainly see that Whitey Dorkface was after her and would stop at nothing to have her.

At this point, I decide to play hardball and told her that she shouldn't see ol' Matt anymore, ever otherwise she had no respect for our relationship and I would dump her. She got mad and told me to Fuck Off, followed by slamming my Lepp pin into my groin,nearly hitting one of my balls. I was in freaking pain and this little ungrateful wench just took off like it was nothing!

A few days later, it was all over the VSA about how she and Matt had hooked up, as well as how Matt had ditched Vanessa. A couple of guys who'd been burned by her wanted to shake his hand--WTF? I tried to get my money back from Vanessa, but she wouldn't give it up. I was livid and out my girlfriend and my money.
Their union wasn't entirely embraced by many of her VSA friends--about half of them quit talking to her and there were some who openly ridiculed her to her face for betraying me. Many of the sell-outs or the dorkier VSA guys supported her though--not Asian Americans you'd really want support from to be sure.

In any event, I was better off without her and I later on found an even HOTTER Viet-American chick whose only purpose in life is to love and serve ME.
Vinh Tuan Dang (a/k/a Tom Dang)
Wednesday, March 06, 2002 at 11:41:14 (PST)
Sounds like a confession to me or something like it. Hmm...it seems like you are defending your choice to other asians on this site...it's obvious that this guy Matt had a fetish and it's clearly obvious that you Denise, was gonna turn to your white friends..it was just a matter of time. What you do with your life is your your business but trying to justify why you went out with a white guy is just plain demeaning to AA males out there. His first question was how do i go out with asian chicks? translation...i like you and i want to go out with you. Let's just face it Denice you liked white guys from the beginning but it just took you until college to realize it. I mean you married the first white guy you dated...what does that tell us about you? kinda wierd isn't it? as for looking into someone's heart well i don't know about that i'm pretty sure if you look in the mirror you'll know the truth why you went out and married Matt in the first place....i'm here to tell the truth...you can hate me if you all want but in essence..the truth hurts...

Ghost Writer NYC

Coming at ya strong and hard...
Ghost Writer NYC
Friday, March 01, 2002 at 17:13:44 (PST)
"However the whole relationship towards the end, was based around arguments about him not being good with money, different attitudes about raising kids and education, and generally me finding him to be lazy, lacking direction and having different goals as me.

Although these are to some extent personality differences, they are differences due to the fact that he is white and i am Asian."

Celine:

I don't know about the behavior of most Whites in the UK. Your experiences with that ONE White guy were just that--experiences with ONE White guy.

What I find highly disturbing is that you are making very GENERALIZED, and somewhat PREJUDICIAL remarks about ALL WHITE PEOPLE as being lazy, bad with money, not knowing how to raise kids, not having long-term goals, being uneducated and so forth. This is further exemplified in your statement:

"As an Asian woman, education and success are drilled into us from an early age and unless youre a white wash, these values stay with you forever."

There are plenty of White people who have the same Values as Asians do about education, if not moreso. I've read posts from some White guy who posts on a regular basis at GoldSea who is clearly well educated. He's White and his Wife is Asian. In fact, from what I remember, he has 2 Graduate degrees and a Baccalaureate while his wife only has a Baccalaureate. Once again, you are basing your experience with an uneducated White Man and ascribing them to all White men.

Even though you add the disclaimer "Ultimately someone who is dating someone from another race should make sure they have these values as well, otherwise you end up not 'clicking' on the same wave level and the bond of the relationship gets lost." the bulk of your post has a running theme in it that Asians are racially superior to Whites, better educated than Whites and so forth on down the line. You have picked up on your parents Cultural Superiority Complex.

If you read my story carefully, you would have known that Matt and I were both in College or as you British say "at University" together when we met. If you read further down, you'd see that I am now in Medical School and that Matt has an MBA--a Master's of Business Administration. That is a post-Baccalaureate degree. We are both well educated and hardworking people. We both have similar values about family, loyalty and religion and the areas where we differ on those issues are small.

If I'd had the automatic attitude that I was culturally superior to Matt, I would have missed out on a rather intelligent, hardworking, handsome, kind and decent man.

Your experiences are your own, just like my experiences are my own. Just don't walk around with the "Model Minority" blinders on, sister. That's no better than when White folks or Westerners walk around with a Cultural Superiority Complex.
Denise Huynh
Thursday, January 17, 2002 at 13:28:23 (PST)
To Denise

Just wanted to say congratulations to you on your engagement and i wish you all the best. I read a few of the other posts in response to your story and i hope you dont get offended by them- although you will be faced with a lot of prejudice in the future and this is just the beginning of it!

I dont mean to put you or any one else in a similar situation off, but i was in the same situation as you that id like to tell you about.

I am a second gen UK- Chinese who only dated Asians and had lots of Asian friends. After being dissatisfied with the Asian guys i dated and realising what a 'banana' i was, i met a white guy who was my dream ie tall blonde and blue eyes etc We were engaged and i thought he was the 'one'. My parents didnt like him and kept telling me that i needed to date someone who was university eductaed' but i didnt listen to them.

However it took me 6 months to realise how wrong i was and my parents were right after wll. I oftne thought that race didnt matter, as i could have lots in common with other guys of different race.

However the whole relationship towards the end, was based around arguments about him not being good with money,different attitudes about raising kids and education, and generally me finding him to be lazy, lacking direction and having different goals as me.

Although these are to some extent personality differences, they are differences due to the fact that he is white and i am Asian.

. As an Asian woman, education and success are drilled into us from an early age and unless youre a white wash, these values stay with you forever. Ultimately someone who is dating someone from another race should make sure they have these values as well, otherwise you end up not 'clicking' on the same wave level and the bond of the relationship gets lost.

I broke off the engagement and ended the relationship and in some ways i feel i have lost my best friend but i know myself that it wasnt going to work out. If there were problems now there are surely going to be problems in the future, if we were to have a family and kids. I feel better that i have learent a lot about myself and i know now what to look out for when the next guy comes along

Im not saying that all white guys are incompatible with AF but the type of White guy who fits well with an AF needs to be 'Asianised' and really openminded and appreicate the Asian culture. or at least, having the same characteristics as Asians ie educated, professional, clean cut, on the quiet side.

From my dating experiences, It seems a lot of Wm only date AF for an 'experience' or because it is 'cool' to be seen with an Asian girl. (fetish) Also because (lets admit this) Asian girls are one of the best looking races around and it seems most WM would give their right arm to be with an attractive, young, Asian girl.

Hopefully MAtt isnt like this and i hope everything works out well with you guys

Celine

Celine
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 at 09:08:56 (PST)
Response to Hauptman
Hey man, this section is called "Your True Stories." Denise is telling hers, just like all the other stories told in this section. That's what this part of the site is for!

Great googly-moogly, quit reading so much into this (i.e. she's trying to get the approval of posters at GoldSea) and just take it for what it is.
GoldSea Reader
Tuesday, January 15, 2002 at 05:14:49 (PST)
If you are so confident about your relationship and so certain you are not a "sellout" and that your situation is not yet another driven by some cracker's overindulgence in Asian porn (something I'm sure he would never tell you until it was much too late) then why the long story justifying yourself to a bunch of strangers?

If you are truly happy with this guy then just be happy and move forward. If you have this need to come to a board to justify your choice to a bunch of faceless strangers who neither know your nor care about you then I'd say you most likely you have subconscience reason for having to be defensive. If so, it most likely has to do with continuing doubts about whether your bofriend is with you because of his desire to be with a nice, intelligent girl or he's yet another ignorant passive-racist white guy looking to fulfill his sex fantasies with his current substitute for an Asian porn queen (that would be you). If my knowledge and exposure of White, European women came mainly from porn and the crap Hollywood spits out, I would have a fundamentally screwed idea of what white women are or how they think and act. We have a whole lot of crackers whose only signifcant understanding of Asian culture and Asian women is from porn and other whore-like roles on TV, movies, etc. How does someone become interested in dating any ethnic girl if they are essentially ignorant about that girl's cultural background? The fact that he would ask you how to ask out/date an Asian girl should have been your first sign. If he truly appreciated a girl's ethnic background, he wouldn't have to ask such a stupid question unless it was his attempt to let you know he is interested in you in the first place.

Anyway, I think your problem is not what other think but what you think deep inside. You should spend more time sorting it out in your own mind and not looking for validation here.

One more thing, even if your case does not fit the stereotype, it just means you are not the stereotype it does not mean the criticims/observations about many other WM/AF "couples" are not valid. Personally, most of the Asian guys I know who like to date interracially do so. If fact, they have little to no problems doing so. However most just don't want to. Can't say that I blame them.
Asian Hauptsturmfuhrer
Monday, January 14, 2002 at 10:29:34 (PST)
Denise,

"Ancient Chinese Bedroom Secrets." .... You never heard of the Chun Hua (Spring Pictures). Early Chinese waterpainting of sexual acts. Nothing really secret, but interesting. ^_^

Since I don't know either of you. There is not much for my to say that could be accurate.

Most people I met in your type of relationship the white guy. I am usually one of those very open minded people that has an very strong interest asian culture. Whether the interest in asian culture starts with an asian girl; or vice versa. Is really the question.

Personally, being a guy I think 99% of all things guys do are for the girls. Almost everything we do is to increase our odds to get the "dream girl".

I don't want to project on your situation. But I will tell you a story of a high school friend of mine.

She is chinese. Went to a different college then myself, but we kept in touch by email. And offer advise to each other on love life.

Anyway sometime in Sophomore year she falls for a white guy majoring in korean. Then he breaks it off with her because he is off to study abroad in S. Korea for a year. Having already study abroad in asia, I told her my experiences of observing white guys in asia. It's not all bad. Some guys are saints some or not in foriegn countries.

At some point in the email I proposed that he was interested in a specific asian, korean, and she was not korean. So it was no big loss. Well this caused an avalanche of justification on her part on how she was not objectified and about being seen as a person. Not being the type to challenge the psych. core of relationships and identity I drop the subject.

Anyway they got married recently and she seems happy. I've hired her a couple of time to help my business. I skirt the whole identity thing with her. Because being a AM who married an AF who speaks chinese at home and whose 1st gen kids also speak chinese home. I never want my friends to feel lacking when comparing themselve to me.
AC dropout
Thursday, January 10, 2002 at 17:47:08 (PST)
Truth Seeker:

I met Matt in September of my Junior year in college. He asked me about dating an Asian woman about six weeks after he'd met me, and that's when I set him straight.

Matt started dating Vanessa in October of my senior year of college. That was over a year after I'd set him straight and nipped any hint of Asian fetishism in the bud. During that year in-between when we'd met and his dating Vanessa, he'd dated a couple of other girls--White and Latin mostly. When I was "educating" him, I specifically told him he wasn't to date an Asian girl until I was thoroughly sure he'd gotten over his misconceptions about Asian women.

And for the record, I'm 5'5" tall and Matt is 5'10" tall. He's not a Trekkie or a geek, but rather just an average joe. He'd based her PERCEPTION of Asian women (intelligent, kind, attractive) partially on the CHARACTER of Keiko O'Brien. He didn't base his idea of a RELATIONSHIP with an Asian woman on Star Trek.

Once again, some of you just love to jump to conclusions. If you'd read my account more carefully, you would have understood this.
Denise Huynh
Wednesday, January 09, 2002 at 14:06:29 (PST)
Someone once said; "if it looks like, acts like, talks like, tries to hide like, thinks like, smells like a sellout." Well....

IT IS!!! congrats.

BLACKTWINTURBO
Monday, January 07, 2002 at 06:57:11 (PST)
Sounds like your husband had an Asian fetish and you were his prize.

First off, your little "dump truck" friend was absolutely correct. What are the odds of a guy telling you he liked Asians and wanted to date one, then he gets the rejection from you, and a couple of weeks later he ends up with an Asian girl? Did he only stalk Asian girls at the time?

Secondly, any guy that gets a perception of Asian women based on Star Trek has some serious issues. In fact, anyone that defines his future relationships based on Star Trek has some REALLY serious issues.

While I can gladly say that I have never met you two, I can already predict the couple that your are. Short asian girl, about 5'2", with a serious fixation on height. He about about 6'2" (and you two look like father and daughter) and probably no more than 150 lbs. Probably glasses and get really excited talking about the next generation of SDRAM. In other words, dorky white guy with short Asian girl. Yeah, like we don't see those couples at Ranch 99 everyday...

Even though I only do Patent Law, I'd be happy to handle your eventual divorce.
Truth Seeker
Saturday, January 05, 2002 at 18:20:53 (PST)
Oh PLEASE! You're not doing Asian men or yourself any favors with your excuses. You wanted to be with that White guy all along and you broke an Asian brother's heart in the process. Wait until you've been married 10 years, and Whiteboy has no hair on his head, lots of hair on his back and a gut hanging over his belt. Then we'll see if you talk about "love" or not!

Laughing Asian Guy
Friday, January 04, 2002 at 12:32:17 (PST)
AC Dropout:

Matt wasn't a true Asian fetishist when I met him, but I had a feeling he was in the early stages of it. Whatever happened to him soon after he first asked me about dating Asian women, might send him down that road.

Matt is a nice guy in general, and I didn't want him to go that way. I didn't want some Asian woman in the future to have to deal with yet another Asian fetishist either. However, I did not want to date him and had no romantic interest in him at that point in time.

After doing a lot of soul-searching, I realized my feelings for him developed after his first couple of months of "education." He asked a lot of detailed questions, was conscientious of his behavior and was totally honest about his ignorance. Even after he became "Asian aware" or "Asian sensitive", he never developed an arrogant "White Male Expert on Asians" attitude like I've seen some guys have. I think it was that humility, his eagerness to learn without prejudice and the fact that he showed loyalty me as a friend is what warmed me to him.

I realize that a lot of other Asian Americans would have wrote Matt off from the get-go, and I was tempted to do so. I guess what prevented me from doing that was the fact that he was sincere and honest, not sleazy or asking for some "Ancient Chinese Bedroom Secrets." (Don't laugh--I've heard that one TOO MANY TIMES!)

However, that would have been the easy thing to do and would have been ignorant of me as well. This is real life, not a TV show or a John Hughes movie and you can't just dismiss people like that.
Denise Huynh
Friday, January 04, 2002 at 11:30:46 (PST)
Denise,
That was a nice story, the plot sounds kinda familiar though (however it was well edited to fit Asian audiences). I especially liked the part when you were hiding behind the bushes listening to Matt & Vanessa.
AM
AM-NYC
Friday, January 04, 2002 at 08:24:36 (PST)
First of all, I'd like to say that your story is very heartwarming and deserves praise as a truthful representation of what seems to be a loving relationship. And it is understood why you would think it is unfair for asians, males especially, to automatically consider you a "lost sister" without knowing how your relationship with your fiancee came about. However understand that it is unfair assumptions and stereotypes which brought about this enmity for IR relations in the first place. By NO means am I trying to justify this feeling one way or the other, but I think most people realize what has been done by the American media and some Asian Females (not yourself) to the Asian Male psyche is completely ludicrous, harmful and lacks any type of concrete proof. When one has the likes of Amy Tan, Connie Chung, and others constantly blasting you without knowing you, one gains a sense hatred that's hard to defuse. Therefore, though I completely agree that it's dumbfounded to judge upon IR couples as being "sellout couples" without knowing them. The same can be said about true "sellout" Asian females who abandon Asian males for White males and judge upon Asian males in similar fashions. Good Luck in your marriage and again, good story.
Thanks,
Kevin Yang
Thursday, January 03, 2002 at 15:54:57 (PST)
Denise Huynh,

I am glad you found happiness in your life.

But you've eliminated more than 50% of East Asian males from your mating selection in the USA when you exclude Japanese or Chinese descendent ones.

Not to critise the older generation of Asian. But your dad's a racist. White would anger your dad, but Latino and Blacks would cause your outcast...

But you are honest enough to admit that Matt had an asian fetish to begin with.

Most girls I met in your situation would deny the fact Matt had an asian fetish and would try to convince people that Matt's initial attraction to you was as a person.
AC dropout
Thursday, January 03, 2002 at 13:27:27 (PST)

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