AA Christians... we've all encountered them, especially in the Corean community. Some more conservative Asians call them 'sell outs' for not being Buddhist/Shinto/Confucian, but more liberal Asians are embracing this new trend.
What's your take?
Full Version: What's Your Opinion On Aa Christians?
What's with this sell-out horsesh!t? This is America. Freedom of religion is our constitutional right. It's one of the fundamental principles upon which this country was founded. Let Christians be, as long as they're not hurting anyone and live their lives in peace. I was raised a Christian (Evangelical Free). If someone has a problem with that and thinks I should practice Buddhism or whatever, well, that's kind of like if I did a little Bible thumping the other way (which I don't do). And I know that proselytizing pisses people off and is one of the reasons why a lot of so-called intellectual liberals put down Christians. I have no problems if someone practices Buddhism or Islam or whatever, as long as they don't mess with me in the name of Allah.
Uh, well, in the Filipino community, most of us are Christian, and more specifically, Roman Catholic. The folks we consider "sell-outs" are the Methodists, and born-agains. 
My cousin was raised a Catholic, but when he wanted to get married, his girlfriend was Mormon, and so he converted to Church of LDS.
I say, to each their own. I was raised Catholic, did all the sacraments and stuff, but as an adult, I find that I am not really very religious. People quoting the Bible and such and taking the holier-than-thou path I simply have no patience for. I think the one and central thing that I've gotten from the Bible is "Love Thy Neighbor" - basically the Golden Rule. It is by this principle that I live my life. I think most organized religions are about promoting this theme in one way or another - recognizing that in a harmonious human community, people help each other out, and try to treat their fellow man in the way they would expect to be treated.
My cousin was raised a Catholic, but when he wanted to get married, his girlfriend was Mormon, and so he converted to Church of LDS. I say, to each their own. I was raised Catholic, did all the sacraments and stuff, but as an adult, I find that I am not really very religious. People quoting the Bible and such and taking the holier-than-thou path I simply have no patience for. I think the one and central thing that I've gotten from the Bible is "Love Thy Neighbor" - basically the Golden Rule. It is by this principle that I live my life. I think most organized religions are about promoting this theme in one way or another - recognizing that in a harmonious human community, people help each other out, and try to treat their fellow man in the way they would expect to be treated.
I'm telling you they are evil those asian christians. Next thing you know they will tell us evolution is false.
Here is my gripe about the Christian thing and I was brought up Lutherian. If one is keenly aware of the Asian history how can one in good conscious support a religion that was used as a guise to spy on the governments and subjectgate asian people. I might as well support the Opium War.
I've heard the counter arguments along the line on how I can in good conscious use products of German and Japanese companies the supplier war material in WWII. But these companies have become multinational to help develop that other countries they use to attack.
However, religon especially in the USA, has gone haywire. From trying to denouce evolution theory all the way to the support of Isreal. I cannot in good faith donate to an Organized religion that participate in these type of activities that on the whole is detriment to other human beings. Given the evangelical nature of Christianity, organized Religion needs an independent body to regulate it in my opinion.
Here is my gripe about the Christian thing and I was brought up Lutherian. If one is keenly aware of the Asian history how can one in good conscious support a religion that was used as a guise to spy on the governments and subjectgate asian people. I might as well support the Opium War.
I've heard the counter arguments along the line on how I can in good conscious use products of German and Japanese companies the supplier war material in WWII. But these companies have become multinational to help develop that other countries they use to attack.
However, religon especially in the USA, has gone haywire. From trying to denouce evolution theory all the way to the support of Isreal. I cannot in good faith donate to an Organized religion that participate in these type of activities that on the whole is detriment to other human beings. Given the evangelical nature of Christianity, organized Religion needs an independent body to regulate it in my opinion.
GM and GE mad big money from Jewish slave labour thus got its big reputation.
BUY AMERICAN! I
GNORE UNFAVOURABLE HISOTRY!
and what about the "love thy neigbour as they self" principle applied to interned Japanese Americans during WWII? I guess to those supporting "patriots" having their captured sons in the Pacific getting their heads lobbed off and put in pig cages eating grass was an Act of God under suspicious circumstances no doubt HEEHEE (this is quite mean, I'm starting to sound like voicless)
BUY AMERICAN! I
GNORE UNFAVOURABLE HISOTRY!
and what about the "love thy neigbour as they self" principle applied to interned Japanese Americans during WWII? I guess to those supporting "patriots" having their captured sons in the Pacific getting their heads lobbed off and put in pig cages eating grass was an Act of God under suspicious circumstances no doubt HEEHEE (this is quite mean, I'm starting to sound like voicless)
I guess they're cool. Most of the Asians in my family are Christian. Don't know any of them to practice anything else. But I just hope that everyone here at Goldsea doesn't view a person due only to their religion. You should get to know that person, you know? Instead of generalizing them by what they believe in. And ya'll know in some of the Asian history that some of the Asians practicing Confucianism, Daoism, and what not were trippin' at times. Now, you can't say that their religion told them to do that. They themselves were corrupted, not their religion. Don't generalize, ya'll. 
I think Asians can do just fine without all these silly religions... along with all the hocus pocus, threats and promises, 70 virgins, etc. Clearly for uncivilized, lesser beings who can't behave themselves without Scooby Snacks.
...How degrading.
...How degrading.
Obviously. Since all us Asians are so enlightened and have it all together that there is no strife, no problems, no misunderstandings, no miscommunication, no trying to pull a fast one on each other, no insulting each other, no violence, no crime, no murders committed without reason, no insanity. No need for any such foolishness.
Just look at America 
Yes, I think Asians -- with some exceptions -- are inherently more civilized and do not require excessive fantasy and threats of rotting in hell to enjoy and maintain a stable society. Is this not what I said?
Hell, even dogs und wolves have order within their groups, don't know what the hell the problems other people have if they can't get their act together.
Yes, I think Asians -- with some exceptions -- are inherently more civilized and do not require excessive fantasy and threats of rotting in hell to enjoy and maintain a stable society. Is this not what I said?
Hell, even dogs und wolves have order within their groups, don't know what the hell the problems other people have if they can't get their act together.
MLK,
Of course notice all the f*ck up asians in society are usually those corrupted by White society. Even if you look at asian history in the past 100 years all those F*ck ups also occur due to mingling with unciviled white society. But now that we are here we have to enlighten white society. The first move to to create a non-denomination religion, you know those mega churches in CA and Texas that accept Christians, Muslims, and Buddist every Sunday.
Inject some Buddist thought into society. Like Harmony above all else.
A Voila, America will be a better place.
| QUOTE |
| Asians are so enlightened and have it all together that there is no strife, no problems, no misunderstandings, no miscommunication, no trying to pull a fast one on each other, no insulting each other, no violence, no crime, no murders committed without reason, no insanity. No need for any such foolishness. |
Of course notice all the f*ck up asians in society are usually those corrupted by White society. Even if you look at asian history in the past 100 years all those F*ck ups also occur due to mingling with unciviled white society. But now that we are here we have to enlighten white society. The first move to to create a non-denomination religion, you know those mega churches in CA and Texas that accept Christians, Muslims, and Buddist every Sunday.
Inject some Buddist thought into society. Like Harmony above all else.
A Voila, America will be a better place.
Hell yeah
| QUOTE |
| Of course notice all the f*ck up asians in society are usually those corrupted by White society |
*cough* Pol Pot *cough* *cough*
loooooooool @ kimchi devil, this is the point I was making. Don't gotta be whitewashed to be corrupted.
Oh c'mon, civility at an individual/tribal level cannot overcome a brutal dictatorship... Besides, wasn't Pol Pot educated in France?? LOL
Green_Bamboo_Mountain,
It not being whitewashed. It about being influenced by white culture and not realising its negative aspects. Like Kimchi mentioned they guy was educated in France. Then later took on a campaign to eliminate all outside influences in his country. In a tiny country like that he could have easily shut down his boaders, but he didn't, because he was already influenced by corrupt white culture.
It not being whitewashed. It about being influenced by white culture and not realising its negative aspects. Like Kimchi mentioned they guy was educated in France. Then later took on a campaign to eliminate all outside influences in his country. In a tiny country like that he could have easily shut down his boaders, but he didn't, because he was already influenced by corrupt white culture.
You and kimchi devil tickle me. I can hear ya'll sitting at your pc's talking junk about all this. Weeeee dogieeee!
I think if religion can be utilized as a philosophy then it's perfectly OK. And I often feel that I've "missed out" on some of the community and social networking that church-going Christians enjoy... Social networking is seriously underestimated as a means to get ahead in life, education only goes so far.
But I draw the line with religious basket-cases who use religion to hustle others and tell others what to do without a good reason for it. The "bible says this and the bible says that" does not qualify as a "reason" as far as I'm concerned.
And one more thing, religion itself is based on a large amount of over-generalizations, it dictates absolutes because too many people cannot think things through, have critical reasoning skills, determine the consequences of their actions, question things etc. It tells you what to do and what not to do, but never why. Why? Because G O D -- or whatever -- says so. I don't think so, this is not the proper approach, in my opinion. But at least Christianity is considerably more "optimal" in comparision to some other religions, like Islam. So it can certainly be a lot worse than it is now.
But I draw the line with religious basket-cases who use religion to hustle others and tell others what to do without a good reason for it. The "bible says this and the bible says that" does not qualify as a "reason" as far as I'm concerned.
And one more thing, religion itself is based on a large amount of over-generalizations, it dictates absolutes because too many people cannot think things through, have critical reasoning skills, determine the consequences of their actions, question things etc. It tells you what to do and what not to do, but never why. Why? Because G O D -- or whatever -- says so. I don't think so, this is not the proper approach, in my opinion. But at least Christianity is considerably more "optimal" in comparision to some other religions, like Islam. So it can certainly be a lot worse than it is now.
How can Christianity be any better than Islam. They are based on the same concept but just different Messiah. There are more than enough idoitic Christians in the USA that believe we are in some aspect in a religous war and support Zionistic views to support the 2nd Coming of Christ, at the Spiritual expense of the Jews, if it is true.
The reason you are not allow to question God is because it helps facilitates a stable organized group. Asian have fidelitiy to elders and White people got fear of God. However, asian society got a wake up call after the Opium Wars and Cold Wars, so modern asian society has changed and adapted to survive and surpass.
This is not True of American culture. Because we have been #1 in the world for quite a while. Although the underlining reason for America's dominance of the world is complex. A vast majority in the Bible belt would just like to attribute the whole thing to God, since it is easier to understand in their small world. However, because the USA is also a democracy these ignorant Bilble Belt populace now have political power as a swing vote group.
This is the worst situation for any democratic society. Where the populace that ignorant and misinformed are the majority. These ignorant people wish to surpress the civil right of gays, surpress the facts that pastors are molesting childress, and surpress the facts of scientific knowledge.
There is no reasoning with Christains because they are taught at birth that God is right. There are so many lesson they are taught that defy reason for that would counter faith.
This and the fact that Christianity is not tolerant of other schools of thought. It is not fit to exist in a democratic society with vast diversity of people.
Religion is truly evil when it comes to people who wish to pursue knowledge above all. That is why all modern governments wish to seperate Church and State.
The reason you are not allow to question God is because it helps facilitates a stable organized group. Asian have fidelitiy to elders and White people got fear of God. However, asian society got a wake up call after the Opium Wars and Cold Wars, so modern asian society has changed and adapted to survive and surpass.
This is not True of American culture. Because we have been #1 in the world for quite a while. Although the underlining reason for America's dominance of the world is complex. A vast majority in the Bible belt would just like to attribute the whole thing to God, since it is easier to understand in their small world. However, because the USA is also a democracy these ignorant Bilble Belt populace now have political power as a swing vote group.
This is the worst situation for any democratic society. Where the populace that ignorant and misinformed are the majority. These ignorant people wish to surpress the civil right of gays, surpress the facts that pastors are molesting childress, and surpress the facts of scientific knowledge.
There is no reasoning with Christains because they are taught at birth that God is right. There are so many lesson they are taught that defy reason for that would counter faith.
This and the fact that Christianity is not tolerant of other schools of thought. It is not fit to exist in a democratic society with vast diversity of people.
Religion is truly evil when it comes to people who wish to pursue knowledge above all. That is why all modern governments wish to seperate Church and State.
| QUOTE |
| How can Christianity be any better than Islam. |
I do think that for whatever reason, Christianity has evolved to be better suited for the modern world than Islam. Islam has somehow 'evolved' to preoccupy and consume time and energy. This time and energy which can be better utilized learning things and the pursuit of technological advancement. Also, Christianity seems more flexible and 'tolerant' of being questioned, as indicated by its numerous denominations. Had the Catholic church never split to form the Protestant churches then, of course things may be a whole lot different and I probably wouldn't say any of this.
You can still get a lot done as a Christian (provided that one is level-headed) and for the most part it doesn't interfere with technical understanding. As an example, the two individuals responsible for the development of Calculus were religious, Leibniz was in fact a Theology student, and hell, Newton was still practicing Alchemy (which is just loony by today's standards). Obviously religion didn't interfere with their pursuits, perhaps it even helped them, since some people considered math to be "the language of God" or whatever. Evolution, well that's a different story, as it's quite a messy situation with Christians and Evil-lutionists.
It's when people take religion so damn seriously that it becomes part of reality then that's when serious problems come up. You just can't have it interfere with your life.
My assessment isn't the be-all-end-all to Christianity or Islam. it's just how it appears to be practiced in this day and age. Of course one can improve on all of this, with a better religion or philosophy... Fine tuned and engineered for perfection. LOL.
BTW Reverend Moon (of the Moonies) is or was an Electrical Engineer, so I'm not entirely joking about all of this.
I feel that I am very enlightened being a Muslim and practioner of Islam. In our religion, we are told to seek knowledge to as far as China. And that's what I do. I go out of my way at all times to learn something of someone's religion and culture. I refuse to let myself be close minded. My religion expands my mind, not constrict it. And I do all this while wearing the Islamic headscarf designated by Islam for Muslim women. Am I an oxymoron?
I see things all over the world my Muslim brethen do that I go, "what in the hell"? And I go and look it up in our religious books. Then I go oh, so they obviously took that and that out of context. I learn that so many Muslims do some crazy crap in the name of Islam, and it's really in the name of their perverted minds. Then of course whatever they do I get the backlash from it due to my appearance. I get a "f**k you, you f**kin Moslem" or just a plain f**k you. Many people when they see me think I'm close minded, oppressed, and need to be liberated. That a western knight from Byzantium needs to save me. I can as easily take off my headscarf, but what about my name? It definitely isn't Jane or Jill. And I'd still be a Muslim either way. Here in America people always think I'm from "over there", wherever there is at times. Usually it's the Middle East. I get a this look
when I tell them that my roots sprung from this country. And that my parents, siblings, and I later chose Islam as our religion. While the rest of our family remains Christian. For most of the part, we all get along just dandy.
I see things all over the world my Muslim brethen do that I go, "what in the hell"? And I go and look it up in our religious books. Then I go oh, so they obviously took that and that out of context. I learn that so many Muslims do some crazy crap in the name of Islam, and it's really in the name of their perverted minds. Then of course whatever they do I get the backlash from it due to my appearance. I get a "f**k you, you f**kin Moslem" or just a plain f**k you. Many people when they see me think I'm close minded, oppressed, and need to be liberated. That a western knight from Byzantium needs to save me. I can as easily take off my headscarf, but what about my name? It definitely isn't Jane or Jill. And I'd still be a Muslim either way. Here in America people always think I'm from "over there", wherever there is at times. Usually it's the Middle East. I get a this look
when I tell them that my roots sprung from this country. And that my parents, siblings, and I later chose Islam as our religion. While the rest of our family remains Christian. For most of the part, we all get along just dandy.
Green_Bamboo_Mountain,
LOL, I don't speak from having deep insider information on Islam. But, having spent about seven or eight years in Saudi Arabia as a little kid did give me plenty of opportunities to observe things. It does seem that Muslims spend a great deal of time and effort on their religion in a very much non-negotiable manner. And also it seems that Islam is used to "pass the time," at least in that part of the world... Probably because that's what the Beduoins (sp?) did. Whether it's Arabic culture or Islam, it's hard to say. The male/female aspect of Islam/Arabic culture is what I would call torturous, hehe. And the Xenophobia there puts anything in East Asia to shame... I think they can still make improvements.
Well what did you think of my horrible, terrible generalizations?
Sorry about the all meanies, there are plenty of jerks in the States.
LOL, I don't speak from having deep insider information on Islam. But, having spent about seven or eight years in Saudi Arabia as a little kid did give me plenty of opportunities to observe things. It does seem that Muslims spend a great deal of time and effort on their religion in a very much non-negotiable manner. And also it seems that Islam is used to "pass the time," at least in that part of the world... Probably because that's what the Beduoins (sp?) did. Whether it's Arabic culture or Islam, it's hard to say. The male/female aspect of Islam/Arabic culture is what I would call torturous, hehe. And the Xenophobia there puts anything in East Asia to shame... I think they can still make improvements.
Well what did you think of my horrible, terrible generalizations?
Sorry about the all meanies, there are plenty of jerks in the States.
You know that your'e a nutty nut too, right kimchi devil? I'm tired of your name too. You make me want some kimchi. But I'll just have to settle with my Korean BBQ sauce. Hey, Korean BBQ sauce is absolutely scrumptous on buffalo wings. My hubby noticed that the chicken wings had a kick to them and were a lot tastier. So he said, "what cha put on the wings different?" I told him, "a stuck a Korean's toe in it." Hee hee. That means the food is bangin', super delicious.
Anyhoo, that' s cool that you've lived over there. I've never been to a Muslim country, but my parents have. They've been to Turkey, even though Turkey claims secularism. I've had loads of Arab friends being Muslim. Saudi friends too and the women say they love it over there. To each his/her own then. And I can tell you from my experience that it IS their culture that gets intermixed with Islam. You know that was the whole point of Islam coming to the Bedouin (Badawi) Arabs. Cause they were trippin on a large scale. And of course they also learned that Islam was for the world, not just for them. But then of course later on they reverted back to trippin on a large scale. Not all of them have, but lot's of them. So then there goes the many stereotypes that non-Muslims put on ALL Muslims.
Do you speak Arabic? I bet you're like my Pakistani friend. She said she stayed in Saudi for 15 years and didn't learn the language. I don't care what other country I live in, I would just HAVE to learn the language. It would be so cool to be totally bilingual. Well, as far as Americans hatin' on Islam, the Asian community has always been polite to me. While going to grade school we were always drawn to one another. I hung out a lot with Asian youth. Guess we shared the connection of "sticking out" due to our appearances.
But I'll just have to settle with my Korean BBQ sauce. Hey, Korean BBQ sauce is absolutely scrumptous on buffalo wings. My hubby noticed that the chicken wings had a kick to them and were a lot tastier. So he said, "what cha put on the wings different?" I told him, "a stuck a Korean's toe in it." Hee hee. That means the food is bangin', super delicious. Anyhoo, that' s cool that you've lived over there. I've never been to a Muslim country, but my parents have. They've been to Turkey, even though Turkey claims secularism. I've had loads of Arab friends being Muslim. Saudi friends too and the women say they love it over there. To each his/her own then. And I can tell you from my experience that it IS their culture that gets intermixed with Islam. You know that was the whole point of Islam coming to the Bedouin (Badawi) Arabs. Cause they were trippin on a large scale. And of course they also learned that Islam was for the world, not just for them. But then of course later on they reverted back to trippin on a large scale. Not all of them have, but lot's of them. So then there goes the many stereotypes that non-Muslims put on ALL Muslims.
Do you speak Arabic? I bet you're like my Pakistani friend. She said she stayed in Saudi for 15 years and didn't learn the language. I don't care what other country I live in, I would just HAVE to learn the language. It would be so cool to be totally bilingual. Well, as far as Americans hatin' on Islam, the Asian community has always been polite to me. While going to grade school we were always drawn to one another. I hung out a lot with Asian youth. Guess we shared the connection of "sticking out" due to our appearances.
Kimchi devil,
Your experience with Islam is in relation to a theocratic state run by a fundamentalist sect known as the waahabis ( the pencticostals of Islam) that is openly supported by the United States. Your correlation with modernity in Christainity vs. Islam misses the bigger picture. The western world embraces humanism and modern ideals in place of religion. Basically Christanities strength was ironically the fact that most countries that were Christian put it aside in favor of secualr humanism. This has been one of the corner stones of western culture for thousands of years. Consider the liberal lifestyles and ideas of ancient Greece and Rome where philosophy and hedonism was celebrated and the Gods knew thier place. It is no accident that the weakening of the Catholic church occurred when medievil Europe was rediscovering classical (Greco-Roman) learning, philosophy and ideas. Artists and philosphers during the Italian reneiassance often debated which man was greater? Jesus or Aristotle?
In the Islamic world governments shifted back and forth between fundamentalism and liberalism for 1400 years. One of colonialisms legacies in the Islamic world was reactionary fundamentalism. The paradox was that western ideas of secularism, inaliable rights and representative government were introduced by either colonial master who raped, pillaged and discriminated against thier Muslim prisoners or brutal stooge military dictators put in place by western powers (shah, suharto, zia al-huq etc.). Thier philosphy being "modernize and embrace western ideals or I'll torture and kill you and your family". It was in the face of this hypocritical paradox that fundamentalist Islam began to rise. And lets not forget the military support and "get out of jail free cards" the U.S. gives the Saudis even after 9-11, to Saddam Hussien during the Iran Iraq war, even though he torpedoed the USS Stark, or to the Mujahadeen when they were killin Russians. The term is called blow back in CIA circles.
What happened to our own rights in America after 9-11. Is it safe to say that we became a bit radicalized by the attack? That we put aside certain civil liberties in the paranoid hunt for invisible assassins.
Now I want you to realize that I make no excuses for the Taliban, Theocratic Saudi Arabia, Saddam Hussein, Al Qaeda, Suhartos dictatorship or fundamentalist Iran. These governments and organizations besmirched the religion of Islam to justify thier actions. But if you know anything about these groups, then you know thier creation and support was part of a bigger picture to combat communism during the cold war. You might say that each of them are relics of a different time that don't realize thier usefulness is at an end. But to blame the religion for actions that were clearly politically motivated inacurately lays blame.
Many thinkers in the west feel that East Asians are culturally prone toward political extremism and totalitarianism. Given the examples (Communist China, Singapore, North Korea, Veitnam, Cambodia or Japan prior to WW2) is thier evidence to blame East Asian culture? I think not when you analize each country in the context of world history and each nations unique external and internal pressures.
kimchi devil,
The church for the most part allowed people the delve into higher form of mathematics as long as it was productive to the church in painting more accurate pictures and keeping track of time or accouting practice or improve husbandry.
But once knowledge started to counter some of the Churches claims. Like Earth was the center of the Universe or that Life on Earth pre-dates the Bible or That humans could genetically control pea pods. Each one of those investigators were also threaten with excommunication and death. If you know these individuals I'm referring to then at least you have an education.
Now the Church is at it again. Trying to push some mumbo jumbo theory to be taught in public schools along side evolution. Do you know how ridiculous Intelligent Intervention and Spontaneous Genesis are being taught along side evolution?
That would be like teaching time travel by submitting the evidence that when you enter 1:00 and 0:60 in a microwave oven, that there is a loss of 40 seconds. Hence, a time shift.
The church for the most part allowed people the delve into higher form of mathematics as long as it was productive to the church in painting more accurate pictures and keeping track of time or accouting practice or improve husbandry.
But once knowledge started to counter some of the Churches claims. Like Earth was the center of the Universe or that Life on Earth pre-dates the Bible or That humans could genetically control pea pods. Each one of those investigators were also threaten with excommunication and death. If you know these individuals I'm referring to then at least you have an education.
Now the Church is at it again. Trying to push some mumbo jumbo theory to be taught in public schools along side evolution. Do you know how ridiculous Intelligent Intervention and Spontaneous Genesis are being taught along side evolution?
That would be like teaching time travel by submitting the evidence that when you enter 1:00 and 0:60 in a microwave oven, that there is a loss of 40 seconds. Hence, a time shift.
| QUOTE |
| Many thinkers in the west feel that East Asians are culturally prone toward political extremism and totalitarianism. |
Yes, unfortunately, I agree. Even after all the progress over time, one man can simply take it all away in an instant. But I also notice that (some) East Asian countries seem to have a healthy distrust of government, whether it's fist fights in parliament or impeachment of presidents. Fortunately, past mistakes can allow one to compensate (or over-compensate) for one's fault... So all is not lost.
I still think that if one can factor in the historical events, culture, etc. . and determine the 'worth' of a religion, that you can assess whether it will help or hurt advancement of a society.. Obviously this can only be done if you have a secular government. I can't remember precisely, but I think I read that this is what happened in S. Korea, that Christianity was somehow deemed a necessary presence in order to Westernize, so its practice was 'encouraged' by the government and today the country is roughly 50% Christian, 50% Buddhist. To some degree I think this is wrong simply because it overlooked the importance of the Church as an institution where so much of the progress in the West was being made, especially earlier on prior to universities. It simply associated Christianity as a religion with the West. But, as I said, things could be worse, I suppose.
Generalizations are useful however, provided one can sift through the mess of factors. Even subtle differences can result in large changes in the outcome.
| QUOTE |
| What happened to our own rights in America after 9-11. Is it safe to say that we became a bit radicalized by the attack? That we put aside certain civil liberties in the paranoid hunt for invisible assassins. |
Sometimes I think I'm the only one who didn't get brainwashed then, even now I'm having second thoughts... How can you trust anyone?
Yeah, I find it a bit disappointing how the Saudi's seem to be constantly villianized. During the time I lived there, prior to the first Gulf War, I didn't so much as to notice even a trace of Anti-Americanism. But I do know just how sacred they consider their land to be and how xenophobic/isolationist they are (as far as troops and people with no 'business' being there) so I can imagine how the attitudes changed after the War.
| QUOTE |
| One of colonialisms legacies in the Islamic world was reactionary fundamentalism. |
Wow, I had no idea that so much of Islam today is reactionary due to historical causes... I had learned that Islam was ahead of the Christian West with respect to matters such as the treatment of women and such, but it I didn't really know what to think, since I was living there.
| QUOTE |
| Now the Church is at it again. Trying to push some mumbo jumbo theory to be taught in public schools along side evolution. Do you know how ridiculous Intelligent Intervention and Spontaneous Genesis are being taught along side evolution? |
Yeah it was something that bugged me when I was younger, but I didn't have to deal with it at least... I thought the whole issue died down and the Church people gave up. It seems like more of a political maneuver to prevent questioning of the Church and Bible, rather than the actual pursuit of knowledge by religious folks. It's always something other than it seems... even the abortion issue (has less to do with 'morals' than the public is made aware of).
Now that's strange that the Coreans (ha, forget to use the "C" in my prior post) dub Christanity as western when it was born in the Middle East. Just like Judaism and Islam. Later of course Christanity picked up in great winds in the West. Nowadays in Islam, most of its practioners reside in Malaysia, Indonesia, and the west. It doesn't make it all of a sudden an Asian Pacific or western religion. And just to think people still think you gotta be an Arab to be Muslim.
Yeah, I guess it kinda helps having the Vatican City somewhere in Italy and far from Palestine... You might need to ship the Holy Ka'ba to its proper resting place in Kuala Lumpur so it'll be associated with "The East."
It is kinda odd when you think about it, having so many Coreans pick up on Christianity... But I think somehow Christianity, Shamism, and Confucianism are kinda mixed together to some extent (not sure, since I'm not religious). It seems kinda at odds with how it's done in the West where Christianity displaces anything else (where it's more domineering and 'militant' so to speak).
Militant Fundamentalist Buddhism anyone? .
It is kinda odd when you think about it, having so many Coreans pick up on Christianity... But I think somehow Christianity, Shamism, and Confucianism are kinda mixed together to some extent (not sure, since I'm not religious). It seems kinda at odds with how it's done in the West where Christianity displaces anything else (where it's more domineering and 'militant' so to speak).
Militant Fundamentalist Buddhism anyone?
.
Yeah, haven't you seen the films where one Buddhist temple went to war with another? Those made good cinematic action flikcs.
Any killing done in the name of religion is wrong. But you can't blame the religion, only the human using the cover of religion to justify his/her actions. That's like saying the knife is the evil piece in the murder case, and the man who wielded the knife was influenced by the knife because he saw that the knife could cut and lacerate and wound and kill so easily. He could have used it for good...like chopping up veggies for a soup kitchen to serve the hungry in a third world country.
I'm sure if we looked hard enough, we could probably come up with some really decent goodhearted humans who practice the Islamic faith, the Christian faith, the Buddhist faith, etc. No need to besmirch any religion just because you happen to practice something else. This, above all else, makes you look like the close-minded intollerant militant religious fanatic that you espouse to hate. And yes, science is a religion in my mind, because those who are scientifically minded are seeking truths. Kudos for those who seek the truth because it's sorely needed. But just because you possess a facet of the truth does not mean you have the right to (or even the intellectual authority) to denounce another who also claims that they possess a facet of the truth. Some truths are paradoxically intertwined and there is no way for them to exist alongside each other....but they do.
Any killing done in the name of religion is wrong. But you can't blame the religion, only the human using the cover of religion to justify his/her actions. That's like saying the knife is the evil piece in the murder case, and the man who wielded the knife was influenced by the knife because he saw that the knife could cut and lacerate and wound and kill so easily. He could have used it for good...like chopping up veggies for a soup kitchen to serve the hungry in a third world country.
I'm sure if we looked hard enough, we could probably come up with some really decent goodhearted humans who practice the Islamic faith, the Christian faith, the Buddhist faith, etc. No need to besmirch any religion just because you happen to practice something else. This, above all else, makes you look like the close-minded intollerant militant religious fanatic that you espouse to hate. And yes, science is a religion in my mind, because those who are scientifically minded are seeking truths. Kudos for those who seek the truth because it's sorely needed. But just because you possess a facet of the truth does not mean you have the right to (or even the intellectual authority) to denounce another who also claims that they possess a facet of the truth. Some truths are paradoxically intertwined and there is no way for them to exist alongside each other....but they do.
"When Shaolin Buddism Goes Wrong"
That's going to the next action flick in Hollywood.
That's going to the next action flick in Hollywood.
| QUOTE |
| Any killing done in the name of religion is wrong. But you can't blame the religion, only the human using the cover of religion to justify his/her actions. That's like saying the knife is the evil piece in the murder case, and the man who wielded the knife was influenced by the knife because he saw that the knife could cut and lacerate and wound and kill so easily. He could have used it for good...like chopping up veggies for a soup kitchen to serve the hungry in a third world country |
OH GAWD, not this!!
I just can't stand these types of idealistic positions... I'm more practical. Yes an individual is ultimately responsible for his/her actions, but knives and guns make it a WHOLE LOT easier. Without a knife or gun, other members of society would have plenty of time and opportunity to stop or prevent injury or death. Not to mention those who would kill or injure if a weapon is present, but not think about it if a weapon was not present. And you certainly wouldn't say something like nuclear warheads don't kill people, people kill people, duh?!?
Common sense must always be exercised.
| QUOTE |
| No need to besmirch any religion just because you happen to practice something else |
In my case, I'm an atheist... I besmirched all religions in jest, but I remained accurate in that the use of carrot and stick (Scooby Snacks) is quite accurate in how religion is applied to common folk.
OK, top this: How about being civil, not stealing, not killing, not adultering, not pillaging, working hard, maybe having kids, and doing whatever other "good virtues" there are out there, all while knowing that your going to die someday and nothing comes afterwards. Nothing. No rewards, no punishment. Nothing. Purdy friggin' sad ain't it?
| QUOTE |
| And yes, science is a religion in my mind |
Don't get me started on scientists. Science has killed more people than any other religion put together. It also produced more people, just so science can kill EVEN MORE people. That is just sick, horrible. You scientists make me wanna puke! How can you live with yourselves, you terrible murderers.
And you want closed minded??? What are you mad?? How many times do you need to do the same experiment over and over and over again before you are convinced of anything?? Make up your minds already. Sheese.
No, you cannot win.
I would never say that Asian people who choose to be Christians or believe in Jesus and God are sellouts. Christianity is a major and important religion in the world. I do however worry about Asians who practice Christianity without understanding it.
One such example I have is a boy name Chen Hyanumb a Korea boy I knew who was a student in China. This guy couldn't speak Chinese at all but was incensed to join Sunday mass in a Chinese Shriatian church on Sunday morning on Nan Jing Road in the city. This guy just sat there totally oblivious to what was being said. That kind of devotion is kind of disturbing.
He was a Presbyterian Christian but, to this day, I don't tink he even understands what that means.
I also have attended Chinese and Korean Baptist churches in NYC and frankly, I have found their sermons and their services to be weaker in emotion than Black Baptist churches and even White Presbyterians.
I also think NOTHING is more boring than Catholic church service.
One such example I have is a boy name Chen Hyanumb a Korea boy I knew who was a student in China. This guy couldn't speak Chinese at all but was incensed to join Sunday mass in a Chinese Shriatian church on Sunday morning on Nan Jing Road in the city. This guy just sat there totally oblivious to what was being said. That kind of devotion is kind of disturbing.
He was a Presbyterian Christian but, to this day, I don't tink he even understands what that means.
I also have attended Chinese and Korean Baptist churches in NYC and frankly, I have found their sermons and their services to be weaker in emotion than Black Baptist churches and even White Presbyterians.
I also think NOTHING is more boring than Catholic church service.
Well if that's the case, then why don't we just call all things that facilitate murder as being EVIL!!!
Fire...used to burn folks with. Water...can drown them just as easily. All tall buildings! push 'em overboard! How about an automobile...run over somebody and see how well they live to tell the tale. Oh wait...another good one for the Asian in us. A chopstick...man, right through the temple and you're basically gone.
Science is what allows you to be sitting there on your duff typing out all these messages to me. So...appreciate the good stuff that's occured with science, and try to alert those in power over the possible destructive scientific forays.
Tell you what. Your version of reality is very depressing. It's amazing you haven't contemplated suicide up to this point, seeing your life is basically worthless (at least to you).
Fire...used to burn folks with. Water...can drown them just as easily. All tall buildings! push 'em overboard! How about an automobile...run over somebody and see how well they live to tell the tale. Oh wait...another good one for the Asian in us. A chopstick...man, right through the temple and you're basically gone.
Science is what allows you to be sitting there on your duff typing out all these messages to me. So...appreciate the good stuff that's occured with science, and try to alert those in power over the possible destructive scientific forays.
Tell you what. Your version of reality is very depressing. It's amazing you haven't contemplated suicide up to this point, seeing your life is basically worthless (at least to you).
Big Truck
You're not going to Church to be entertained. Hopefully, you get something valuable out of it, but the entertainment value (television evangelism) should be the least of your sticking points. If this is what you're looking for in a Church...maybe you should re-evaluate the reason for your going. I would also suggest TV church as being the most entertaining of all the churches. Beware of the money schemes though.
And I've been in Buddhist temples where the monks read liturgy written in Sanskrit or ancient Chinese...none of which I understood. It doesn't make me feel any less towards the religion, especially since anyone can enroll in a Buddhist (or Hindu or Christian) theology course and get the intellectual side of the religion, all for the small price of a community college course fee. For the cheaper folks, a good book from a local library gives all the information needed.
Perhaps the guy in your post just needs to be inside a Church on Sunday to feel comforted spiritually, since he's in a strange land with strange people. Perhaps it's not so much the message he's going to get as it is the experience of being in a Christian atmosphere. People have done far far crazier things (like trying to get psychological help via an online forum...).
You're not going to Church to be entertained. Hopefully, you get something valuable out of it, but the entertainment value (television evangelism) should be the least of your sticking points. If this is what you're looking for in a Church...maybe you should re-evaluate the reason for your going. I would also suggest TV church as being the most entertaining of all the churches. Beware of the money schemes though.
And I've been in Buddhist temples where the monks read liturgy written in Sanskrit or ancient Chinese...none of which I understood. It doesn't make me feel any less towards the religion, especially since anyone can enroll in a Buddhist (or Hindu or Christian) theology course and get the intellectual side of the religion, all for the small price of a community college course fee. For the cheaper folks, a good book from a local library gives all the information needed.
Perhaps the guy in your post just needs to be inside a Church on Sunday to feel comforted spiritually, since he's in a strange land with strange people. Perhaps it's not so much the message he's going to get as it is the experience of being in a Christian atmosphere. People have done far far crazier things (like trying to get psychological help via an online forum...).
| QUOTE |
| Science is what allows you to be sitting there on your duff typing out all these messages to me. |
Um, Ooookaaaay. hmmmm. I take it you didn't see any humor in any of that. Sheese, people need to lighten up about religion. and science too.
What next? A Fatwah for insulting Star Trek? | QUOTE |
| Well if that's the case, then why don't we just call all things that facilitate murder as being EVIL!!! |
Hmmmm, OK... A person without arms or legs can be as evil as he or she pleases, I simply wouldn't care. Evil things that cannot hurt you, simply do not matter. But 'evil' people that have a means, the will, and the tools to hurt others, well, they do matter. So the smart thing to do is to take enough away from them so they pose little or no threat.
See, very practical.
True evil is a person asking people to participate in Cannibalism.
Eat the Body, Drink the Blood. How unciviled. No wet-nap or cutlery. And sometimes your forced to drink from the same cup, yewww.
Eat the Body, Drink the Blood. How unciviled. No wet-nap or cutlery. And sometimes your forced to drink from the same cup, yewww.
AC_Dropout,
Oh C'mon, even I had to do that in my early years! LOL. But I drifted away from all this religious stuff by the time I was a teenager.
Seriously though, I always thought that humans, like other animals, were hard-wired not to practice cannibalism. I mean, when it happens, it's culture that dictates it. And there are very real and very serious consequences to cannibalism too, bad stuff, just in case someone thinks it's merely an act of evil (I forget the name, but it's the human form of Mad Cow disease).
Anyways, wine and crackers are just fine!
Oh C'mon, even I had to do that in my early years! LOL. But I drifted away from all this religious stuff by the time I was a teenager.
Seriously though, I always thought that humans, like other animals, were hard-wired not to practice cannibalism. I mean, when it happens, it's culture that dictates it. And there are very real and very serious consequences to cannibalism too, bad stuff, just in case someone thinks it's merely an act of evil (I forget the name, but it's the human form of Mad Cow disease).
Anyways, wine and crackers are just fine!
AC_D and kimchi devil, ya'll are yucky yooey for discussing cannibalism, yuckorama!!!! 
And kimchi, you know you're being a nut again with the "fatwa" bit. But that's how loose those fatwas are. Most of the ones issuing them are mad trippin' in the religion anyhoo, so I don't pay em any mind. I'm like riiiiiigghhhhht.
And kimchi, you know you're being a nut again with the "fatwa" bit. But that's how loose those fatwas are. Most of the ones issuing them are mad trippin' in the religion anyhoo, so I don't pay em any mind. I'm like riiiiiigghhhhht.
I AM THE ATHEIST!!!!! I was born Methodist, but I have given up on the purisuit of Christianity, because I have realized that alot of churches would rather make money then help people. Religon contradicts religon today, but go figure in soceity. After all WE HAVE BUSH IN OFFICE!!!!!!! Sorry if this offends anyone, I'm kinda talking out of my ass, but that's how I feel, lol.
Green_Bamboo_Mountain,
Oh I bet some Christians would just love to have their own Fatwah, LOL.
And about the cannibalism thing, just making a point that religion doesn't explain away everything.
Ally-Chan,
Yeah, being an Atheist is like being in a secret club, no doubt many religious folks who question things and are introspective know the "answer" to some extent -- even those in control of religious institutions --but they just play along because it works and it keeps everything running smoothly. Personally I've ALWAYS avoided religious discussions in the past, good rarely ever comes of them. But I don't mind talking about the tangible, practical, or useful aspects of it.
Oh I bet some Christians would just love to have their own Fatwah, LOL.
And about the cannibalism thing, just making a point that religion doesn't explain away everything.
Ally-Chan,
Yeah, being an Atheist is like being in a secret club, no doubt many religious folks who question things and are introspective know the "answer" to some extent -- even those in control of religious institutions --but they just play along because it works and it keeps everything running smoothly. Personally I've ALWAYS avoided religious discussions in the past, good rarely ever comes of them. But I don't mind talking about the tangible, practical, or useful aspects of it.
Your right about the people and the following what works best... 
I'm all for that. Yeah, I like to express my opinion, but I hate offendings people. Actually, I was thinking about the whole religous thing this morning and I have practiced some Wicca casually. I have had some BAD experinces with the Baptist church, not in general, but just at one. I went with one of my friends to her church, because she felt I "needed some salvation," which I thougth was nice because she was looking out for me. Boy, was I wrong. The alot of the people in the church were extremists, and they showed some prejudice towards me, because I was not baptisted Baptist. One man told me all other Christians, expect of Baptists, go to hell. The Sunday School teacher had a phobia of birds (I brought up the dove in the bible and she began freaking out, like having panic attacks.) I was told (at the time I was still recovering over my first boyfriend) it was morally wrong to date outside you race or even outside you religon. The Pastor was extrememly nice, but the chruch had been taken over by the crazy congregation
I'm all for that. Yeah, I like to express my opinion, but I hate offendings people. Actually, I was thinking about the whole religous thing this morning and I have practiced some Wicca casually. I have had some BAD experinces with the Baptist church, not in general, but just at one. I went with one of my friends to her church, because she felt I "needed some salvation," which I thougth was nice because she was looking out for me. Boy, was I wrong. The alot of the people in the church were extremists, and they showed some prejudice towards me, because I was not baptisted Baptist. One man told me all other Christians, expect of Baptists, go to hell. The Sunday School teacher had a phobia of birds (I brought up the dove in the bible and she began freaking out, like having panic attacks.) I was told (at the time I was still recovering over my first boyfriend) it was morally wrong to date outside you race or even outside you religon. The Pastor was extrememly nice, but the chruch had been taken over by the crazy congregation
If Christ was alive today. He be a wanted man for fraud. That's right, he'd be like in the same situation as Waco Texas and those guy Hale Bop Comet people.
If Christ was alive today and in America, he would think to himself "Jesus Christ, people really SUCK!!! Really, Really Suck! Enough of this." The same thing he was thinking 2000 and something years ago.
Of course, if he was in Asia today, he might not think this, he would be an unemployed prophet with no cause.
Of course, if he was in Asia today, he might not think this, he would be an unemployed prophet with no cause.
Ally,
I wonder if there is any particular difference between Bapists and Evangelists. From what you just described, I really do not see any even with all the numerous Protestant schizms over the past 500 years. And I thought Evangelists were off their rocker with all their notions of an up-coming Rapture that will take all of God's chosen people, the Evangelists to no surprise, and leave the rest of us non-evangelists behind to fight over each other and the anit-christ. That doctrine is a half-step away from Heaven Gate's waiting for their spaceship.
That's one big problem with organized religion. It often has been used as an excuse to accept discriminatory behaviours without any regard for rational thought.
On the other hand, who want to go to a heaven with only Evangelists? Kind of like the South Park's Mormons-Only Heaven. A heaven with only clouds and Mormons or Evangelists? That would be complete hell.
I wonder if there is any particular difference between Bapists and Evangelists. From what you just described, I really do not see any even with all the numerous Protestant schizms over the past 500 years. And I thought Evangelists were off their rocker with all their notions of an up-coming Rapture that will take all of God's chosen people, the Evangelists to no surprise, and leave the rest of us non-evangelists behind to fight over each other and the anit-christ. That doctrine is a half-step away from Heaven Gate's waiting for their spaceship.
That's one big problem with organized religion. It often has been used as an excuse to accept discriminatory behaviours without any regard for rational thought.
On the other hand, who want to go to a heaven with only Evangelists? Kind of like the South Park's Mormons-Only Heaven. A heaven with only clouds and Mormons or Evangelists? That would be complete hell.
Well, the Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish faiths are very similar in many ways, but also EXTREMELY DIFFERENT, this also includes their interperations of Bible/Torah. Based on what I have learned, which I don't know if it is true or not, in the Catholic Church, things were added to the Bible, like the Tabernacle, over years. The Catholic relgion, which started out more peaceful, over the years abused it power (especially in the Middle Ages.) What we know as the Catholic relgion today is not the Catholic relgion of 400 years ago. Relgion is evouvling. Basically, as I see, not relgion is true.(pleeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaase, no one be offended by this!!!!
)
Ally-Chan,
What's there to be offended of? You were just posing a valid statement. Nothing wrong with that.
You are correct to assume religion such as the Roman Catholic Church were as different today than the last few hundred years. Sometime around 1650 to 1900, the Church basically rejected the principles of the so-called "Enlightenment" era such as the theories of Cuperinicus and Galileo. They might as well add the theories of Charles Darwin as well. Apparently like almost all of Christianity during that time, people actually believed (some still do today) that God created the world within seven days and Earth was only few thousand years old.
Flash forward to the 1950s to 1960s during the Church's Second Vatican Council, then one will see that the Church decided it was time, albeit way overdue, to start the process of aggiornamento (updating the church). It also meant during Pope Pius XII that the Church had to rethink Judas' and the Jewish community's involvelment with the cruxifiction of Jesus. Before, many Passion plays portrayed Jews as traitors to Chirst linking Judas with all of Juadism. Only after the world got to see what Nazi Germany did to propel anti-Semitism to unparalled heights, the Church decided to change some of their views. For the most part, the Catholic Church remained silent during the Holocaust.
Therefore, religion has evolved but only very, very recently.
What's there to be offended of? You were just posing a valid statement. Nothing wrong with that.
You are correct to assume religion such as the Roman Catholic Church were as different today than the last few hundred years. Sometime around 1650 to 1900, the Church basically rejected the principles of the so-called "Enlightenment" era such as the theories of Cuperinicus and Galileo. They might as well add the theories of Charles Darwin as well. Apparently like almost all of Christianity during that time, people actually believed (some still do today) that God created the world within seven days and Earth was only few thousand years old.
Flash forward to the 1950s to 1960s during the Church's Second Vatican Council, then one will see that the Church decided it was time, albeit way overdue, to start the process of aggiornamento (updating the church). It also meant during Pope Pius XII that the Church had to rethink Judas' and the Jewish community's involvelment with the cruxifiction of Jesus. Before, many Passion plays portrayed Jews as traitors to Chirst linking Judas with all of Juadism. Only after the world got to see what Nazi Germany did to propel anti-Semitism to unparalled heights, the Church decided to change some of their views. For the most part, the Catholic Church remained silent during the Holocaust.
Therefore, religion has evolved but only very, very recently.
I just try not to offend people, because some people just get an attitude towards my opinions, so I try not to be all in your face and stuff. Just Keeping the Peace!!!
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