It really bothers me to see so many stereotypes of asians on the networks and on movies from Hollywood. One would think that actors who play these negative/stereotypes, like straight-laced doctor, nerdy student, korean grocer, chinese waiter, kung fu masters, scientist, asian accent, etc., would have enough courage to say no and try to get a better part.
Are they so desperate where they must take these roles to survive. Or, why can't they wait for something better rather than humiliating themselves and an entire race of people on network tv and films from Hollywood. It seems that if these actors stop taking these roles then such negativity pounded on asians through the mainstream media, hollywood, and tv will stop. Or, at least, significantly be curbed.
Full Version: Why Do Asian Actors Take Stereotyped Roles?
While I wholeheartedly agree with you, I fear the sad truth may be that more positive roles simply are not being written. That's why I think more Asian Americans in entertainment should take the initiative and write and/or direct their own films and maybe create their own television shows. Better Luck Tomorrow was a good start, it it by no means should be the end.
Dalian Moon,
There are actually plenty of asian american themes out there as independents, etc., but they are not mainstream. I'm talking about actors on the fringe that take anything that comes their way, and, as a result, humiliates the asian race. Is money really that important?
Positive identity is completely ruined when you constantly see negative stereotypes of asians on tv and films. And, of course, there is the dilineation of asian cultures that is enhanced by the negativity of network tv and film.
Take a stand, people!....
There are actually plenty of asian american themes out there as independents, etc., but they are not mainstream. I'm talking about actors on the fringe that take anything that comes their way, and, as a result, humiliates the asian race. Is money really that important?
Positive identity is completely ruined when you constantly see negative stereotypes of asians on tv and films. And, of course, there is the dilineation of asian cultures that is enhanced by the negativity of network tv and film.
Take a stand, people!....
Sorry. I guess I don't word things very well. I do wonder why some actors take roles that play up to negative images. They aren't doing their fellow Asian and AAs any favors.
But I also think that more noise needs to be made when offenses are spotted. For example, in the recent season of the Surreal Life, the cast (all of them not Asia) were supposed to make a kung fu movie. It had bad accents, yellowface--the whole racist deal. I sent some angry e-mails after the episode aired, but I heard nothing about any kind of outroar from the Asian American community. So, I think that AAs should try and be selective about roles if they can, but people also need to get pissed and take a stand when negative stereotyping is spotted. If Hollywood thinks they can get away with it, they will keep it up.
Hope this response was a little more intelligent.
But I also think that more noise needs to be made when offenses are spotted. For example, in the recent season of the Surreal Life, the cast (all of them not Asia) were supposed to make a kung fu movie. It had bad accents, yellowface--the whole racist deal. I sent some angry e-mails after the episode aired, but I heard nothing about any kind of outroar from the Asian American community. So, I think that AAs should try and be selective about roles if they can, but people also need to get pissed and take a stand when negative stereotyping is spotted. If Hollywood thinks they can get away with it, they will keep it up.
Hope this response was a little more intelligent.
Dalian Moon,
There are plenty of asian media watch groups out there where you can forward instances you see of asian racism on tv or the movies. Have you checked those out. Also, post any you see here. People read these posts and I'm sure would be happy to address your concerns.
You are right. Asian actors/actresses should be stronger and turn down roles that negatively portray asians, or, that stereotype asians so nonchalantly. What can network and hollywood do? Start yellow-facing whites? That would be ludicrous, but if they did it, that would be great opportunity to protest racism at its worst.
Check out the asian media watch groups and identify more racism against asians on the media and hollywood. The jews formed the anti-defamation league to address anti-semitism in the media. Why not do the same for asians?
There are plenty of asian media watch groups out there where you can forward instances you see of asian racism on tv or the movies. Have you checked those out. Also, post any you see here. People read these posts and I'm sure would be happy to address your concerns.
You are right. Asian actors/actresses should be stronger and turn down roles that negatively portray asians, or, that stereotype asians so nonchalantly. What can network and hollywood do? Start yellow-facing whites? That would be ludicrous, but if they did it, that would be great opportunity to protest racism at its worst.
Check out the asian media watch groups and identify more racism against asians on the media and hollywood. The jews formed the anti-defamation league to address anti-semitism in the media. Why not do the same for asians?
I've seen some of those groups. (Unfortunately, I haven't had much time to browse them, though. ( I have a two-year-old.) But I did mention that instance I told you about before to the Angry Asian Man guy.
But I'm sure that if todays AA actors not only took a stand, but called upon their non-Asian collegues to do the same, on behalf of their friends, positive changes would eventually come. But yes, it does require action, and a good helping of attitude.
Okay, off to bed for me. My brain is too fried to write any more, and who knows how early my boy will wake up tomorrow.
But I'm sure that if todays AA actors not only took a stand, but called upon their non-Asian collegues to do the same, on behalf of their friends, positive changes would eventually come. But yes, it does require action, and a good helping of attitude.
Okay, off to bed for me. My brain is too fried to write any more, and who knows how early my boy will wake up tomorrow.
The sad thing is, Hollywood is controlled by jewish people. jews perceive that asians are a great threat to them should they become stronger. Therefore,they believe it is within their rights to belittle the Asians as much as they can.
Second thing is, these asian american actors do not give a flying fadoosh about portraying asians in a negative way. they have bills to pay, so if a role comes up, they'll do it.
what you guys can do about it is dont pay to watch Hollywood movies. Download them instead. Jews hurt the most when you hit them where it counts......the bank account.
Second thing is, these asian american actors do not give a flying fadoosh about portraying asians in a negative way. they have bills to pay, so if a role comes up, they'll do it.
what you guys can do about it is dont pay to watch Hollywood movies. Download them instead. Jews hurt the most when you hit them where it counts......the bank account.
Focker,
Everybody knows about the jews and their asian racism in hollywood and the media. They want to make a buck on anything in hollywood so they do what sells. For some reason, they believe that keeping the "asian man" down is what america really wants. That is why asians have to take a stand.
In real life, if, say, a manager at a fortune 500 company was asian and he was constantly told by his boss to walk around the office and talk in an asian accented voice would he do it? Just for the money? No. He would sue the crap out of the company for being put in a racially degrading position. And, he would probably win. What is the difference when an asian actor is required to do the same thing on tv or a movie. And, to top it all off, he will do it not only at work where he is filming, but show it to the world, and, as a result, humiliating all of the asians in america.
By the time, movies go to video, jews have already baught 3 houses in malibu. They don't care if you don't go to their movies...
Everybody knows about the jews and their asian racism in hollywood and the media. They want to make a buck on anything in hollywood so they do what sells. For some reason, they believe that keeping the "asian man" down is what america really wants. That is why asians have to take a stand.
In real life, if, say, a manager at a fortune 500 company was asian and he was constantly told by his boss to walk around the office and talk in an asian accented voice would he do it? Just for the money? No. He would sue the crap out of the company for being put in a racially degrading position. And, he would probably win. What is the difference when an asian actor is required to do the same thing on tv or a movie. And, to top it all off, he will do it not only at work where he is filming, but show it to the world, and, as a result, humiliating all of the asians in america.
By the time, movies go to video, jews have already baught 3 houses in malibu. They don't care if you don't go to their movies...
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| what you guys can do about it is dont pay to watch Hollywood movies. Download them instead. Jews hurt the most when you hit them where it counts......the bank account |
Of course, not with box office sales alone! Hitting their sponsors might create a noticeable dent as with the Hot97 case. As with actors and performers like Genna Watanabe to Mr. Hung, not only they're terrible performers but also a threat to our national security. Okay I sort of kid, but I am surprised that no one has made any death threats to these posers.
Now, of course, I am hoping that no one here is forcing their children to become legitimate actors in order to save their asian pride because that's as asinine as forcing them to be doctors and lawyers. However, it's also important that all professions, including actors and even the lawyers, exercise more and more leverage against these stereotyped roles because very few people outside asian circles would take our case. As with most things with life, no one will take pity on you until you do something about it. Even the Arab-American special interest groups were successful enough to change the main antogonist of a Tom Clancy-based movie, 'Sum of All Fears' to that of neo-Nazis.
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| In real life, if, say, a manager at a fortune 500 company was asian and he was constantly told by his boss to walk around the office and talk in an asian accented voice would he do it? Just for the money? No. He would sue the crap out of the company for being put in a racially degrading position. And, he would probably win. What is the difference when an asian actor is required to do the same thing on tv or a movie. And, to top it all off, he will do it not only at work where he is filming, but show it to the world, and, as a result, humiliating all of the asians in america. |
A manager of a company is different. He is pretty high on the pecking order. Whereas the Asian American actor who portrays a role in movies/tvs are small potatoes.
I guess what ticks me off is not the no name guys/gals who play the stereotypical role as a "guest star" in series., but mainstream popular actors like jet Li , jackie chan playing stereotypical role. These guys already have the $$$$ but keep on playing these dumb ass roles that just make most of us wanna puke. They should have continued making movies in HK/china where their talent truly shines.
Has jackie chan ever portrayed any characters in his modern day movies instead of a police officer?? I find his movies in rush hour 1/2 and shanghai knights quite degrading to Asians esp. chinese people.
Well, first of all, Asians in america have much more clout than you actually perceive. Things can be done to change things in hollywood and network tv. If asians in america pooled their resources, so to speak, the amount of leverage in changing the anti-asian racism in places like hollywood and network tv would be quite significant. And, including our brothers in places like japan, china, korea, etc. Places like hong kong, tokyo, as you know, have world class leverage and pull, as exemplified by Sony, a huge multinational conglomerate with a subsidiary in hollywood that essentially puts out many of the top money making movies in LA. So, asians have a lot more pull than you think when you look at all of the resources within our grasp.
As far as the fringe asian american actors who are "forced" to take the negative stereotyped hollywood roles like the nerds, scientists, ugly accents, waiters, etc...etc...Nobody is sticking a gun to these peoples' head and saying, "take the roles or leave". But, as anything, it is a cost-benefit analysis. What are the benefits and what are the costs. In my opinion, at least, the costs here heavily outweigh the benefits. The negative stereotypes are detrimental as a whole to asians in america, particularly, since we see a rise in hate crimes against our people and because of our sheer lack of numbers in america in relation to the total population. It just further perpetuates hate, prejudice and unfamiliarity towards asians in america, whereas, the benefits may give an asian actor another "negatively sterotyped role" that will probably lead to another "negative role".
As far as Jackie Chan and Jet Li. C'mon we all know these are just icons. They aren't asian americans. They are the after effects of the king, Bruce Lee....Give me a break...
As far as the fringe asian american actors who are "forced" to take the negative stereotyped hollywood roles like the nerds, scientists, ugly accents, waiters, etc...etc...Nobody is sticking a gun to these peoples' head and saying, "take the roles or leave". But, as anything, it is a cost-benefit analysis. What are the benefits and what are the costs. In my opinion, at least, the costs here heavily outweigh the benefits. The negative stereotypes are detrimental as a whole to asians in america, particularly, since we see a rise in hate crimes against our people and because of our sheer lack of numbers in america in relation to the total population. It just further perpetuates hate, prejudice and unfamiliarity towards asians in america, whereas, the benefits may give an asian actor another "negatively sterotyped role" that will probably lead to another "negative role".
As far as Jackie Chan and Jet Li. C'mon we all know these are just icons. They aren't asian americans. They are the after effects of the king, Bruce Lee....Give me a break...
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| As far as Jackie Chan and Jet Li. C'mon we all know these are just icons. They aren't asian americans. They are the after effects of the king, Bruce Lee....Give me a break... |
Both those guys are "imports" from Hong Kong film scene. Along with John Woo, Chow Yun Fat, etc, and you're right, are not Asian American... To think that these guys could represent Asian Americans because they're "asian" is misleading. It seems easier to break into the American Market if you establish yourself first over sees. Where as trying to break into the American market from wthin America itself is a difficutl task. That is why you see so many Asian Americans playing stereotypical roles, they are trying to break into Hollywood within U.S. borders. No one claims its easy, and its not.
And about these Asian American guys playing these stereotipical roles and them not having a gun put to their head. Ya you're right, they don't have a gun put to their head. Just career suicide and not being able to eat a while. Thats just a hazard of the occupation.
asian-americans have to start making their own movies, shows, etc....they are obviously the best qualified to tell their own stories....
re: leverage, if they have it..then, it's time to start using it...........jackie chan and jet li have been to the states enuff, i'm sure, to know about american stereotypes of asian-americans and asians so it's no excuse for these mult-millionaires to be playing these goofballs on the screen...this latest jet li movie looks absolutely retarded...
if one were to form an impression about asian-americans just from watching tv, movies, etc., one would think that all of them had terrible accents, were goofy, and underhanded...
many people in this country (not just asians) are aware that the people who hold most of the power in the entertainment industry are jews........i don't know if there is some vast conspiracy by jews to prevent asians from getting more "power" in american society, but i do think it is very irresponsible to absolve oneself (jew or non-jew) in having yet another asian male portray a sneaky, foreign, asexual, karate-kicking wimp by saying that the american public is only willing to accept this kind of image....that's total nonsense....
people have been saying that daniel dae kim's part on LOST is a real break-through for asian-american males..............i'm not sure if i've been watching the same episodes...he plays a guy who can't speak any english and is a real chauvinist..his wife complains about him behind his back and is basically unhappy about her life w/ him (i guess she's supposed to portray ALL asian/asian-american women who are in desperate need of liberation from their evil asian men).......i don't care that they showed an episode or 2 where jin's background was explained and now it was understood why he was such a bastard....AND THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A GOOD ROLE?????!!!!!!!!!!
i myself do not need some asian-american "superhero" on tv to make me feel better about myself, however, it would be nice on occasion to see a guy who can actually speak proper english and has normal characteristics...i dont' think that in the year 2005 that that's too much to ask for...
re: leverage, if they have it..then, it's time to start using it...........jackie chan and jet li have been to the states enuff, i'm sure, to know about american stereotypes of asian-americans and asians so it's no excuse for these mult-millionaires to be playing these goofballs on the screen...this latest jet li movie looks absolutely retarded...
if one were to form an impression about asian-americans just from watching tv, movies, etc., one would think that all of them had terrible accents, were goofy, and underhanded...
many people in this country (not just asians) are aware that the people who hold most of the power in the entertainment industry are jews........i don't know if there is some vast conspiracy by jews to prevent asians from getting more "power" in american society, but i do think it is very irresponsible to absolve oneself (jew or non-jew) in having yet another asian male portray a sneaky, foreign, asexual, karate-kicking wimp by saying that the american public is only willing to accept this kind of image....that's total nonsense....
people have been saying that daniel dae kim's part on LOST is a real break-through for asian-american males..............i'm not sure if i've been watching the same episodes...he plays a guy who can't speak any english and is a real chauvinist..his wife complains about him behind his back and is basically unhappy about her life w/ him (i guess she's supposed to portray ALL asian/asian-american women who are in desperate need of liberation from their evil asian men).......i don't care that they showed an episode or 2 where jin's background was explained and now it was understood why he was such a bastard....AND THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A GOOD ROLE?????!!!!!!!!!!
i myself do not need some asian-american "superhero" on tv to make me feel better about myself, however, it would be nice on occasion to see a guy who can actually speak proper english and has normal characteristics...i dont' think that in the year 2005 that that's too much to ask for...
I agree that asians should make their own movies, produce our own genres, etc., but, this is precisely what jews in hollywood want. All they want is to make a buck, and, basically, when asians try to snap up the asian market in america, it is miniscule and hollywood wouldn't even budge. The result, continued stereotyping, negative portrayals, and the same old hollywood racism against asians in america.
Asian americans just don't realize the resources available within our grasp. We've been too dilineated and fractioned, due to race and ethnicity, for one, but, because of the unfamiliarity brought upon by stereotypes that we actually buy into that sprouts from hollywood. By being inert in our focus, we let hollywood and network tv tell us that we are nerds, backboneless, scientists, hard working amoebas.
However, asian americans as a group can have much more power as a group if we let our ethnocentricsm down and fight this fight as a group, rather than as a chinese, as a japanese, as a korean, etc. In america, we are grouped as one, asian amreicans, so why not fight this racism as a group, not as fractionalized ethnocentric unfocused individuals.
We have an asian company right now...Sony....that runs a huge percentage of hollywood. They are only one source. We have asian americans in power in entertainment, in politics, in business, in the media, in law, in international business, that if pooled, can tremendously impact the negative racism that still exists so blatantly in hollywood and network tv. We just have to take a stand...
Asian americans just don't realize the resources available within our grasp. We've been too dilineated and fractioned, due to race and ethnicity, for one, but, because of the unfamiliarity brought upon by stereotypes that we actually buy into that sprouts from hollywood. By being inert in our focus, we let hollywood and network tv tell us that we are nerds, backboneless, scientists, hard working amoebas.
However, asian americans as a group can have much more power as a group if we let our ethnocentricsm down and fight this fight as a group, rather than as a chinese, as a japanese, as a korean, etc. In america, we are grouped as one, asian amreicans, so why not fight this racism as a group, not as fractionalized ethnocentric unfocused individuals.
We have an asian company right now...Sony....that runs a huge percentage of hollywood. They are only one source. We have asian americans in power in entertainment, in politics, in business, in the media, in law, in international business, that if pooled, can tremendously impact the negative racism that still exists so blatantly in hollywood and network tv. We just have to take a stand...
"sony corp of amerikkka" is mainly concerned about importing asian-asian movies as it's run by white executives. most of their asian media wares are still the chop-socky ones. i haven't heard of them attempting any sort of asian-amerikkkan projects at all. and don't forget the white worshipping factor that goes on in japan with wanting to be white in their media...
There is no doubt that sony wants to make money in america and lets the jews work for them to make some cash. Nobody is denying this. The point is that jews work for asians. That's all. When you get down to it, these white folks in hollywood, thinking that the asian pull is insignificant, don't realize that asian cash at places like sony, is paying for their kid's education. That's all. In my opinion, that is powerful and carries a lot of weight. Go ask one of these jews that work for sony if he or she isn't grateful for the asian cash putting food in their belly....
what kind of wacked logic is that? so the japanese appeases the white folks with media images of inept and asexual men and then proceed to pay them ridiculous amounts of money to keep doing that? does this even make sense? and don't tell me there's a lack of asians in amerikkka wanting those media jobs in the first place that sony can't hire who're more likely than the white executives to be much more qualified. 
So, are you saying that jews who are at sony, working all of the movies, that they are not aware of the negative stereotyping and anti-racism that goes on in hollywood movies and network tv. Are you saying that these individuals are blind to the whole anti-asian themes played out day in and day out, or, maybe, you are saying that they are the reason behind it. Does this make them any less accountable, or, at least, they can be made aware that they are the cause of such senseless racism against asians in hollywood. This accountability, along with the fact that they are being paid by asian money, at places like sony, should make them hugely aware of the impetus behind their push to continue anti-asian themes in hollywood productions and network tv. Awareness is the key factor here, and, I think that you are seeing through the eyes of a scared asian american who does not want to make this awareness a possibility in today's society.
dude, WTF are you talking about? and where are you coming with the jews in hollywood not aware of the media racism? have i made a comment on any of those? all i've stated was that sony, in spite of its financial clout, are still the puppets of amerikkka.
y'know this is what's wrong with online asian discussion forums. probably everybody agrees with everybody else on the racism, except they have to be better than everybody else and make much ado about nothing over how they're more right than everybody else. so far, i haven't seen anybody deny the media racism and maybe instead of arguing who's right the effort can be made to focus on taking down bonafide sellouts like bai ling. anbody bought the latest issue of playboy should be ashamed.
y'know this is what's wrong with online asian discussion forums. probably everybody agrees with everybody else on the racism, except they have to be better than everybody else and make much ado about nothing over how they're more right than everybody else. so far, i haven't seen anybody deny the media racism and maybe instead of arguing who's right the effort can be made to focus on taking down bonafide sellouts like bai ling. anbody bought the latest issue of playboy should be ashamed.
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| y'know this is what's wrong with online asian discussion forums. |
These forums should be used as springboards for change and not virtual communities. That should be reserved for the non-wired/real world. If these discussion forums are the only means of communication, then we're all in big trouble.
Hey asian_actor_dude, what's wrong with Bai Ling and what did she said in the latest issue of playboy?
bai ling is a ho, plain and simple. she epitomizes the sellout whoriental. any AF wonders why there are sickos like that princeton guy should look at bai ling and the latest playboy (not buying it) and see why she regresses 10 steps for asians in the media.
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Bai Ling's part has been cut from the movie (Star Wars). There are others who have been cut as well. Lucasfilm has stated her part was cut a year ago. Bai Ling has been quoted saying she thinks the Playboy feature is the reason for the cut. |
Har har, serves her right. Even George Lucas hates Asian sellouts.
Her role in Anna and the king sucked. There are so many AF who can play that role better.
Her picture in playboy cover is here. KIDS DO NOT CLICK ON IT.
June Playboy Cover
What the hell is wrong with Bai Ling doing playboy? Are you crazy? She makes asian women look beautiful. George Lucas cut her part probably cuz she didn't sleep with the old man...
dude, WTF is wrong with you. don't you know telling kids not to do something that'll they find it more enticing to do it? if you don't want kids to do something then tell them they HAVE to do it and they'll back off. 
Thanks Clouded_Yoda for posting the cover for us to have a look. Unless she says a lot of negative things about asian people and culture in the magazine, than I don't think there is anything wrong with her posing in playboy. Asian women are sexy and have the right to express their sexuality just like women of other races. So unless you guys can post comments she made which are degrogatory to asian people than I would refrain from calling her a sell out.
Sorry guys, maybe it is my personal bias.
I find that if she is showcased in Playboy as a normal chick that would be fine. But in the cover she was holding a light saber and did you look at her outfit?? It seems to me she is potraying the stereotypical "exotic" AF.
I would say it is my personal bias because I never did like her.
I like other AF celebrities like Gong Li and others who look more classy and "proper".
i doubt she even knows enough engrish to make any commentary on asian-amerikkkan issues. notice the stupid "is she bai" joke. but if you take a look at the history of her movies and gauge the kind of media image that puts AF in, and the fact that she's so willing to take those sort of roles i think her actions speak louder than words. lastly, i know a website where the playboy pics are hosted if you want to look at them, they're whoriental pinups because she's pimping the fetishism thru whoriental culture for her personal exploitation.
At least what bai did was somewhat positive. It's not like they showed a fat margaret cho spread out all over the editorial. She made asians in hollywood look positive.
I don't think it was negative at all. Bai is hot, but she is definitely not as hot as some of the mamas back home. In places like japan, korea and china, you see some of the hottest asian chicks around. They stay there and don't come to the states. Except for the flight attendants from some of these asian airlines....mamamama mia...bro's .....these are some fine asian women..
I don't think it was negative at all. Bai is hot, but she is definitely not as hot as some of the mamas back home. In places like japan, korea and china, you see some of the hottest asian chicks around. They stay there and don't come to the states. Except for the flight attendants from some of these asian airlines....mamamama mia...bro's .....these are some fine asian women..
Something occured to me. Since Hollywood is basically run by WMs, and they try so hard to make you AMs look bad...could be it they feel threatened? I'm serious. More and more women (myself included) are intermarrying, and, lets face it, Asian men just look nicer. What white sex symbols are there? Brad Pitt? Too dirty and scruffy. Russell Crowe? Eh...how does anyone find THAT atrractive? I'd much rather see someone like John Cho or that guy from "Lost" (who's hot, but his character needs to be less of a stereotype) star in a film, be the hero, and get the girl...no matter what her race.
So, this is just guessing on my part, but maybe the Hollywood execs know that if the masses got a bigger taste of AMs in film and TV, they would start to lose ground. I don't know if what I'm saying makes any sense in the written word, but it does in my head. heh
So, this is just guessing on my part, but maybe the Hollywood execs know that if the masses got a bigger taste of AMs in film and TV, they would start to lose ground. I don't know if what I'm saying makes any sense in the written word, but it does in my head. heh
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| Something occured to me. Since Hollywood is basically run by WMs, and they try so hard to make you AMs look bad...could be it they feel threatened? I'm serious. More and more women (myself included) are intermarrying, and, lets face it, Asian men just look nicer. What white sex symbols are there? Brad Pitt? Too dirty and scruffy. Russell Crowe? Eh...how does anyone find THAT atrractive? I'd much rather see someone like John Cho or that guy from "Lost" (who's hot, but his character needs to be less of a stereotype) star in a film, be the hero, and get the girl...no matter what her race. So, this is just guessing on my part, but maybe the Hollywood execs know that if the masses got a bigger taste of AMs in film and TV, they would start to lose ground. I don't know if what I'm saying makes any sense in the written word, but it does in my head. heh |
Dalian Moon,
I agree with you on a very personal level. The people who have leverage over the Hollywood system of motion pictures and television can sure bring their personal lives, feelings, and even fears to their jobs. I distinctly remember one PBS documentary called Slaying the Dragon, where one concerned WM television writer said this about what he had heard about writing for asians:
"If you do it to the blacks, you get into a lot of trouble. If you do it to the Jews, you get into trouble. If you do it to the sp**s, you also get into trouble. If you do it to the g**ks, then you're home free!"
That feeling and the general notion that Hollywood in the past few decades hasn't been known to take chances, gambles, and be innovative as some independent filmmakers.
Wow. It pisses me off that that attitude exsists. How can we change people's minds if the media doesn't change their ways significantly? Because, sadly, as others have stated, people's opinions are shaped by the media. It's sad how many people are just sheep, icapable of forming their own opinions.
Then again, sometimes the WMs in entertainment are REALLY reaching. Just look at all the shows with fat, ugly white guys and their hot wives. Who wants to look at that? Yep. They're insecure all right.
Then again, sometimes the WMs in entertainment are REALLY reaching. Just look at all the shows with fat, ugly white guys and their hot wives. Who wants to look at that? Yep. They're insecure all right.
Well, the blacks, spanish, the jews, have action groups that will actually take action when there are negative, racist portrayals of their race on network tv or hollywood films. What do asian media action groups or asian legal caucas groups do when there is asian racism on tv or films. They send out email campaigns, they give speeches at forums, they get papers to give them minimal coverage, they organize a rally outside of a hotel.
Is this a joke or what? How powerless can a voice be? These media action groups, these legal caucases, these asian focus groups are about as powerful as a student union march in the cafeteria.
When jews are slammed in the media or tv or film, they don't mess around. The anti-defamation league takes their ass to court for defaming their race. When the blacks get kicked around on tv or the movies, the NAACP, jesse jackson, whatever, will make sure their voices are heard in the media. The spanish, too. They make sure that their voices are heard when they get hammered on tv or film.
Asians have pull. We have a lot of pull, but we are just afraid to call on it because we are so fractionalized as a race in america. We need to take a stand and pull all of our resources and hollywood will stop degrading asians....
Is this a joke or what? How powerless can a voice be? These media action groups, these legal caucases, these asian focus groups are about as powerful as a student union march in the cafeteria.
When jews are slammed in the media or tv or film, they don't mess around. The anti-defamation league takes their ass to court for defaming their race. When the blacks get kicked around on tv or the movies, the NAACP, jesse jackson, whatever, will make sure their voices are heard in the media. The spanish, too. They make sure that their voices are heard when they get hammered on tv or film.
Asians have pull. We have a lot of pull, but we are just afraid to call on it because we are so fractionalized as a race in america. We need to take a stand and pull all of our resources and hollywood will stop degrading asians....
| QUOTE |
| So, this is just guessing on my part, but maybe the Hollywood execs know that if the masses got a bigger taste of AMs in film and TV, they would start to lose ground. I don't know if what I'm saying makes any sense in the written word, but it does in my head. |
of course it's true. it's like the drug dealership guidelines where the mob has to control its own supply lines (or in politics, the government with its own pipelines). do a simple search for miramax and the butchering of asian films and you'll see it's completely true where the moguls want to deny the release of asian films or remake them with white actors so that they don't lose control over the media content. however, the good news is that now with the internet the audience has more choice and say in their own media choices.
Oh, it pisses me off when Asian movies are remade with white actors. American movies are shown all over the world, but the only ones that have made it here lately the ones with martial arts and flying over trees. Don't get me wrong, I loved Hero and Croutching Tiger Hidden Dragon (House of Flying Daggers sucked, though. Especially the ending). But still...
Anyway, if they must remake the movies, would it really be asking so much to have them use AA actors?
On another topic (still related to the thread), who do you think are some AA actors out there likely to change (or at least try to) the way mainstream American views AAs? Conversely, which ones should be put in the hall of shame, never allowed to shame their race on film again?
Anyway, if they must remake the movies, would it really be asking so much to have them use AA actors?
On another topic (still related to the thread), who do you think are some AA actors out there likely to change (or at least try to) the way mainstream American views AAs? Conversely, which ones should be put in the hall of shame, never allowed to shame their race on film again?
House of Flying Daggers sucked? Blasphemy! 
As far as Asian actors having the power to change perceptions of their race, I'd say it will come in small increments. Look at how black actors were basically offered only demeaning, stereotypical roles in the early days of film and TV. They were almost exclusively 1) the corpulent 'mammy' 2) The elderly, foolish bus driver/bellhop or 3) the young male criminal
It took a couple of generations, and folks such as SIdney Poitier and Bill Cosby and their groundbreaking roles to change the public's perceptions about what blacks were and what they could be.
I think Asian American actors will face a similar journey.
As far as Asian actors having the power to change perceptions of their race, I'd say it will come in small increments. Look at how black actors were basically offered only demeaning, stereotypical roles in the early days of film and TV. They were almost exclusively 1) the corpulent 'mammy' 2) The elderly, foolish bus driver/bellhop or 3) the young male criminal
It took a couple of generations, and folks such as SIdney Poitier and Bill Cosby and their groundbreaking roles to change the public's perceptions about what blacks were and what they could be.
I think Asian American actors will face a similar journey.
heh Just stating my opinion (and my husband's, and my MIL's, and my dad's) on HOFD. I know a lot of people liked it. Oh well. Different tastes are what make the world go round.
nope, money makes the world go around. and hence i agree that HoFD suxed because it was nothing more than a cheap quickie trying to capitalize the market to get money and academy acclaim for zhang yimou. at least he's going back to the personal stories that made his mark with his next movie instead of the stupid chop-socky stereotypes. read this article that's very interesting:
In Bruce Lee's Shadow: Asians Struggle to Create New Hollywood Images
In Bruce Lee's Shadow: Asians Struggle to Create New Hollywood Images
Asian Actor dude,
That was a good article. An article that was long over due. But, it just scratches the surface. Reiterating to the mainstream, through a mainstream venue, what, we, as asian americans already knew.
It is awareness that will bring the stereotypes down. How effective will an article like this be in tangible proof? I'll bet you all of the sake in asia that we'll see negative asian stereotypes arise tomorrow as it did yesterday? Why is this? Well, for each occurrence of these negative stereotypes, not only do we have desparate, hungry, out of work asian american actors that would get on his or her knees to take the role, but also we have no enforcement group that will take significant action to negate these stereotyped roles of asians in hollywood and network tv.
I don't want to reiterate, but you can bet your ass that for every instance of negative stereotypes of jew, blacks, spanish, they will significantly implement a force to end the stereotypes. Asians? Well, we may rely on quotes from tenured professors at great universities who boast about these negative stereotypes, but, after that, what's next? Have ABC get another qoute about anti-asian racism from another asian american professor teaching sociology at an ivy league school, have hollywood read it while sitting on the can, and, then they go out and write more asian stereotypes.
Wake up, man.
That was a good article. An article that was long over due. But, it just scratches the surface. Reiterating to the mainstream, through a mainstream venue, what, we, as asian americans already knew.
It is awareness that will bring the stereotypes down. How effective will an article like this be in tangible proof? I'll bet you all of the sake in asia that we'll see negative asian stereotypes arise tomorrow as it did yesterday? Why is this? Well, for each occurrence of these negative stereotypes, not only do we have desparate, hungry, out of work asian american actors that would get on his or her knees to take the role, but also we have no enforcement group that will take significant action to negate these stereotyped roles of asians in hollywood and network tv.
I don't want to reiterate, but you can bet your ass that for every instance of negative stereotypes of jew, blacks, spanish, they will significantly implement a force to end the stereotypes. Asians? Well, we may rely on quotes from tenured professors at great universities who boast about these negative stereotypes, but, after that, what's next? Have ABC get another qoute about anti-asian racism from another asian american professor teaching sociology at an ivy league school, have hollywood read it while sitting on the can, and, then they go out and write more asian stereotypes.
Wake up, man.
House of Flying Dagger does suck. The trailer is so much better IMO. I grew up with HK shows so by my standard, it sux!
Well did you guys watch The Grudge? They did retain some Asian ghosts there. At least that is not stereotypical.. yet. I don't want to see all Asian ghost story remakes only have Asians as ghosts. F*** Hollywood for that!
We had a lot of fun MST3K-ing House of Flying Daggers. LOL
I haven't seen either Japanese or American versions of the Ring films or the Grudge, though I may watch the Japanese versions one day, if I can get over being such a wuss about horror movies. I will never watch the American ones, though. I refuse to watch American remakes of Asian films, which is why I also won't watch the American Shall We Dance. That, and I can't stand J - Ho.
I haven't seen either Japanese or American versions of the Ring films or the Grudge, though I may watch the Japanese versions one day, if I can get over being such a wuss about horror movies. I will never watch the American ones, though. I refuse to watch American remakes of Asian films, which is why I also won't watch the American Shall We Dance. That, and I can't stand J - Ho.
I just wanted ask this boards opinion on a new movie released by Sony (surprising) called "Saving Face"
Brief Synopsis.
A Chinese American girl coming to terms with her lesbianism and her relationship with another Chinese American girl. Her widowed mother (Joan Chen) is in denial. To confuse matters further, Joan Chen becomes pregnant and is kicked out of the house by her dad (main character's grandfather) She refuses to say who the father is and moves in with her daughter, further complicating both thier lives. Joan Chen's character is now quickly trying to pick a suitor from a number of old wealthy Chinese business men. Apparently I'm suppose to care if these poor damaged lotus blossoms find happiness or not??
In the 30 sec. trailer I counted about 6 direct and indirect slams of Asian men.
1. The main character once rescued her girlfriend when they were kids by "beating up the Wong brothers"
2. The main characters wise, dynamic and rounded friend is an African American male. (not a slam but a clear device directed to further flatten Asian male characters)
3. The main chacracter is set up on a date with an Asian male by her mother and is dancing with him. To end the dance she purposely kicks him and visibly hurts the guy.
4. Joan Chen's baby daddy is not Asian (I don't know this for a fact but in what seems to be an incredibly predictable story I am guessing this is the case.)
5. Joan Chen tries to find different suitors and her daughter describes one of them by saying, "He's not exciting but at least he's very rich." How nice
6. The main rich suitor is sitting with Joan Chen's mother at what seems to be a date at a fast food restaurant ( possibly his chain of shops or maybe he's just cheap) and he is facing away from her. Further reinforcing the asexual unromantic stereotype.
7. Grand Dad is a typical tyrant who everyone seems to fear not love.
This is all in less than 30 secs. I kid you not
I read a review at The Onion and they had nothing good to say about it. Surprisingly the critic went on about how tired he was of watching the "umpteenth" version of ethnic movies with the "following your heart and turning your back on the traditions of your parent's culture" message. AMEN!!!! He went on to critique SOny for even picking up this poorly written shlock and recommended there should be a movie about second generation immigrants embracing thier culture for once and that the "gears are beginning to show on this rehashed storyline"
"TESTIFY"
Hopefully this movie is far worse than it even appears and will be the nail in the coffin for the genre, like Grim Reaper was to Glam Rock.
I'm delighted to see that even white male critics are beginning to pick up on these stupid ethnic stories, but my contempt was based more in the unflattering images of Asian AMerican Males.
Why is it that a story that really shouldn't even be targeting Asian men (ummmm she's gay) manages to humiliate them at every turn. The lonely Asian widow even gets dragged through the mud here. I assume we are suppose to think that she should have the baby and raise it on her own because she doesn't need a mans help. "You Go Girl!!"
Poor Joan....you made me misty eyed with Xiu Xiu and I even gave Autumn in New York a chance. But sweet merciful Buddha this is just in poor taste.
As long as studios are willling make or distrubute [expletive]ty [expletive]ty scripts and storylines, there will always be an endless number of Asian actors willing to fill the roles.
Is it really the actors who are to blame or the producers who greenlight this crap.
Brief Synopsis.
A Chinese American girl coming to terms with her lesbianism and her relationship with another Chinese American girl. Her widowed mother (Joan Chen) is in denial. To confuse matters further, Joan Chen becomes pregnant and is kicked out of the house by her dad (main character's grandfather) She refuses to say who the father is and moves in with her daughter, further complicating both thier lives. Joan Chen's character is now quickly trying to pick a suitor from a number of old wealthy Chinese business men. Apparently I'm suppose to care if these poor damaged lotus blossoms find happiness or not??
In the 30 sec. trailer I counted about 6 direct and indirect slams of Asian men.
1. The main character once rescued her girlfriend when they were kids by "beating up the Wong brothers"
2. The main characters wise, dynamic and rounded friend is an African American male. (not a slam but a clear device directed to further flatten Asian male characters)
3. The main chacracter is set up on a date with an Asian male by her mother and is dancing with him. To end the dance she purposely kicks him and visibly hurts the guy.
4. Joan Chen's baby daddy is not Asian (I don't know this for a fact but in what seems to be an incredibly predictable story I am guessing this is the case.)
5. Joan Chen tries to find different suitors and her daughter describes one of them by saying, "He's not exciting but at least he's very rich." How nice
6. The main rich suitor is sitting with Joan Chen's mother at what seems to be a date at a fast food restaurant ( possibly his chain of shops or maybe he's just cheap) and he is facing away from her. Further reinforcing the asexual unromantic stereotype.
7. Grand Dad is a typical tyrant who everyone seems to fear not love.
This is all in less than 30 secs. I kid you not
I read a review at The Onion and they had nothing good to say about it. Surprisingly the critic went on about how tired he was of watching the "umpteenth" version of ethnic movies with the "following your heart and turning your back on the traditions of your parent's culture" message. AMEN!!!! He went on to critique SOny for even picking up this poorly written shlock and recommended there should be a movie about second generation immigrants embracing thier culture for once and that the "gears are beginning to show on this rehashed storyline"
"TESTIFY"
Hopefully this movie is far worse than it even appears and will be the nail in the coffin for the genre, like Grim Reaper was to Glam Rock.
I'm delighted to see that even white male critics are beginning to pick up on these stupid ethnic stories, but my contempt was based more in the unflattering images of Asian AMerican Males.
Why is it that a story that really shouldn't even be targeting Asian men (ummmm she's gay) manages to humiliate them at every turn. The lonely Asian widow even gets dragged through the mud here. I assume we are suppose to think that she should have the baby and raise it on her own because she doesn't need a mans help. "You Go Girl!!"
Poor Joan....you made me misty eyed with Xiu Xiu and I even gave Autumn in New York a chance. But sweet merciful Buddha this is just in poor taste.
As long as studios are willling make or distrubute [expletive]ty [expletive]ty scripts and storylines, there will always be an endless number of Asian actors willing to fill the roles.
Is it really the actors who are to blame or the producers who greenlight this crap.
mind posting your reaction to this email listserv?
http://lists.topica.com/lists/aa-drama/read
http://lists.topica.com/lists/aa-drama/read
| QUOTE |
| GO SEE IT!! I know how long it took Alice to be able to make the film exactly the way she wanted it and it's exactly everything Alice said below. And if any of you have a Chinese mom, Chinese grandparents or Chinese aunties, or if you have yet to come out to your family, then you will especially identify with it. Joan Chen is great!! And the fact that all the leads and everybody in the film is a person of color - how often do you see that? Don't wait for it to come out on video. See it when it opens. The more we support independent features such as this the more doors we'll be opening for more films with Asian American leads made by Asian American filmmakers. I saw it today and I loved it!!! It's actually refreshing to see Asian Americans in a screwball romantic comedy because it's rare if ever that we get to see Asian Americans in that light in the mainstream media. GO SEE IT! Kathy Hsieh SIS Productions (A Seattle producer of an episodic "screwball romantic comedy" theatre series that's about the lives and relationships of four contemporary Asian American women.) |
or how about the "angry" asian man's commentary?
http://angryasianman.com/angry.html
http://angryasianman.com/angry.html
| QUOTE |
| 05.26.05 So, Memorial Day weekend is upon us. In addition to marking the official beginning of barbecue season, it's also a great time to go to the movies. Good people of Los Angeles and New York, I recommend Saving Face, a film by Alice Wu. Forget Jedis and Wookies?you want some good old-fashioned Asian American cinema, dig? Besides, George Lucas doesn't need any more of your money. The guy has billions. BILLIONS. Starring Joan Chen, Michelle Krusiec and Lynn Chen, Saving Face is a sweet, zany romantic comedy in the vein of The Wedding Banquet. It was a hit at Toronto, Sundance, SFIAAFF, VC... and now it's getting a theatrical release from Sony Pictures Classics. But being an indie feature, it doesn't have much of a marketing budget, so the first weekend box office numbers yadda yadda yadda?you know the drill, you've heard it before. Same situation. But I ain't just saying, "There are Asian people in this movie. Watch it." I'm saying it's a great first feature from a promising new Asian American voice. It's a funny, charming story about first loves and second chances. And best of all, it's the gorgeous Joan Chen. Saving Face opens this Friday, May 27 in New York and Los Angeles, and on June 3rd in Boston and the San Francisco Bay Area. Here are some specifics: NEW YORK: May 27th at the Angelika (in Soho) and the AMC 25 (on 42nd Street) LOS ANGELES: May 27th at the Sunset Laemmle 5, Westside Pavilion, Playhouse (Pasadena), Town Center (Encino) and South Coast Village (Costa Mesa) SF BAY AREA: June 3rd at the Landmark Embarcadero, UA Stonestown Twin, Landmark Shattuck (Berkeley), Palo Alto Square, Century 5 (Pleasant Hill), Santana Row (San Jose) and Marin/Sausalito. OTHER CITIES: Boston (6/3), Atlanta (6/24), Chicago (6/10), Dallas (6/17), Houston (6/17), Denver (7/1), Detroit (6/24), Miami (6/17), Minneapolis (6/24), Seattle (6/24), St. Louis (6/24), Washington (6/24) There's an interview with Joan Chen here, and one with Alice Wu here. Now you know what to do this weekend. Spread the word, bring a friend. |
*sigh* How did I know this would be another movie that bashes Asian men? My husband and I certainly won't be seeing it (I think I can safely speak for him in this matter). I hope it flops even worse than the Transporter did. Geez!
Okay, my last post was a little harsh. I, just, like most of you, am fed of with the AM bashing in film. I shouldn't have posted such a reactionary message. But I couldn't find how to delete a post, so my stupidity is up for all to see. 
asian actor dude,
Did you want me to post on these sights? I would like to but the point is that I haven't seen the movie nor will I financially assist it. So unless I happen to be at a friends house who is watching it on DVD there is slim chance I ever will. I based my judgement from the trailer. While this is doe not contain the whole story it is a marketing devise created to entice people to go see it. That being the motive then it failed miserably in me. Go to quicktime and watch the trailer and judge for yourself.
I would like to comment on the style of positive posts that you graciously shared.
Maybe I'm a maverick or a just a littel crazy but I think being a highly educated and culturally rich minorty, Asians should expect more from a movie than just presence. I tend to judge movies by substance. You know I dont see black people being delighted by every portrayal of gang bangers and drug addicts. Using the presence argument they should be happy. And If I may take another page from the African American film experience. I never see black women perpetually disrespecting black men in films at the pandemic levels Asian American women seem to.
But really who is to blame. Are Asian AMericans really telling thier story on camera? Or are they just vehicles for white expectations. Better Luck Tomorrow was a direct feed from the Asian consicousness that is why the film resonated with Asians in this country. It had integrity. This film seems to be more of a gay and lesbian vehicle to me and it is merely using Asian culture as an interesting new surrogate. Which is why the film perplexes even more. WHy the swipe at ASian men?
I have to agree. This saving face flick is nothing more than an action adventure lesbian flick to get the jew boys off on their asian fetishes. And, joan chen is nothing more than a pawn allowing her subtle sexuality to expose the white man's percepted weaknesses of the asian male. It is just a horrible example of another asian sell out who bucks and bows to the whim of the whiteman at the expense of their asian male counterpart.
I think this is a prime example of a more or less mainstream asian "star" who takes on an atypically asian role, but still slams the asian male whether she does it in subtle terms or blatantly. She obviously isn't a fringe actor, but is well established. It is really sad to see that even our asian sisters are so willingly able to bash their asian males in movies that exist in hollywood.
Xenophobia is contagious and even though an asian sister is willing to participate in such racism, does not make it right and it is worthwhile to bring such racism to the attention of people who are just plain ignorant.
I think this is a prime example of a more or less mainstream asian "star" who takes on an atypically asian role, but still slams the asian male whether she does it in subtle terms or blatantly. She obviously isn't a fringe actor, but is well established. It is really sad to see that even our asian sisters are so willingly able to bash their asian males in movies that exist in hollywood.
Xenophobia is contagious and even though an asian sister is willing to participate in such racism, does not make it right and it is worthwhile to bring such racism to the attention of people who are just plain ignorant.
"This saving face flick is nothing more than an action adventure lesbian flick to get the jew boys off on their asian fetishes. "
Speaking of stereotypes...ummm...
I would say the more important issue is that it was written and directed by a lesbian. My experiences with lesbian and bisexual women is that I was the brunt of frequent put downs of my gender (with a few notable exceptions..)
Memorable moment from a time when I worked at a restaurant that had a number of militant lesbians. They were put on a tape while I was washing dishes, don't remember any of the words of the song except for the chorus : "Don't let a penis come between us" Well at least it rhymed.
The stereotyping of Asian men in hollywood films is pretty ludicrous. I don't think I can watch another American produced Jet Li, Jackie Chan, or Chow Yun Fat after enjoying their Hong Kong produced films.
I don't think it's really fear of Asian men among Hollywood producers (There is a rising fear of China among working class people however). More like absolute laziness and lack of desire to shift away from formulas which each year are responsible for absolute dreck that passes as American cinema. I don't really know the Hollywood scene (Perhaps Asian Actor Dude can relate some personal experinces..) but my Jewish relatives tend to be stereotypically multicultural advocates. My Jewish relatives suggested that my sister and her boyfriend (who's Japanese American) have their wedding in their back yard. (This is without any discussion of wedding plans with my relatives from either my sister or her boyfriend, yeah I don't know why either, although my sister is in her 30s and has never married so perhaps they thought they make it plain that they thought this si the one, we approve.)
Speaking of stereotypes...ummm...
I would say the more important issue is that it was written and directed by a lesbian. My experiences with lesbian and bisexual women is that I was the brunt of frequent put downs of my gender (with a few notable exceptions..)
Memorable moment from a time when I worked at a restaurant that had a number of militant lesbians. They were put on a tape while I was washing dishes, don't remember any of the words of the song except for the chorus : "Don't let a penis come between us" Well at least it rhymed.
The stereotyping of Asian men in hollywood films is pretty ludicrous. I don't think I can watch another American produced Jet Li, Jackie Chan, or Chow Yun Fat after enjoying their Hong Kong produced films.
I don't think it's really fear of Asian men among Hollywood producers (There is a rising fear of China among working class people however). More like absolute laziness and lack of desire to shift away from formulas which each year are responsible for absolute dreck that passes as American cinema. I don't really know the Hollywood scene (Perhaps Asian Actor Dude can relate some personal experinces..) but my Jewish relatives tend to be stereotypically multicultural advocates. My Jewish relatives suggested that my sister and her boyfriend (who's Japanese American) have their wedding in their back yard. (This is without any discussion of wedding plans with my relatives from either my sister or her boyfriend, yeah I don't know why either, although my sister is in her 30s and has never married so perhaps they thought they make it plain that they thought this si the one, we approve.)
not to worry, i'm sure sony will follow up saving face with the male equivalent of gay asian males. that's for certain one genre where there's no lack of AM characters and actors. 
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