http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050614/en_af...an_050614095043

If it wasn't evident before, Jackie Chan is now a tool of the Communist Party.
Recently I've noticed that actions by the People's Republic of China (political, economic, social) seem to be doing more harm to the Asian (Chinese) image than Hollywood is. Is Beijing indirectly undervaluing Asians overseas by undervaluing its citizens?

China is now viewed as a centre for mindless cheap labour. A safe haven for counterfeiting and copying of foreign intellectual property. Now it appears China is also an open market for easy companionship for Westerners who are less able or want more than they generally have a chance of getting at home.

Aside from the social issues of gender disparity that's increasing in China and their citizens inability to attract brides into China with a projected annual income of approx. $3000 U.S. The communist party's logic, although understandable (insurrection), is too reliant on the assumption that foreign born children will naturally learn the Chinese language (let alone culture) and identify/hold sincere attachments to China. The "Great Melting Pot" wasn't coined for no apparent reason.

Is China's indifference of its citizen's value worse to the Asian image than Hollywood's negative, albeit weakening, stereotypes?

i think he believes that the only way for china's emerging power to be accepted in this world is to get more white men on their side...and the only way to do that, in his view, is to encourage more white men to marry chinese women

this is the stupidest suggestion i've ever heard

jackie, stay out of international relations

and hu, what do you care, you little v.c.! you're always making these little cuts towards china and koreans, etc.

man, ur not in the rice paddies of saigon or hanoi escaping american-made grenades and working in korean-owned factories....chill out!!

huu's got stockholm syndrome

Thanks for the link huu76. Yep Jackie Chan is doing some serious ass kissing here. If he was truely concern about spreading Chinese culture, why don't he encourage all foreigners, men and women to inter-marry with Chinese men and women???? Why JUST foreigner men marrying Chinese women? The guy is so fake and superficial. Perhaps he believes by selling out his own people, he will get a better deal from Hollywood. Maybe AM should boycott his stuff from now on. Does anyone know how we can contact him coz I wouldn't mind letting him have a bit of my mind.

Also it's as if Chinese women need any further encouragement. Speaking from the experience of living in Asia for two years, I know that Asian women literally throw themselves at Cacuasian men and will bend over backwards for them. There are bars in Hong Kong that arranges meeting between foreign men from western countries with Chinese women. These women are so negative towards AM that sometimes it's hard to believe that they are actually real people. It's like their mind and soul have been completely brainwash by hollywood. So by the sound of things Shanghai is getting to be pretty much the same as other Asian cities like Bangkok, Hong Kong and Jakarta.

Huu76, however I don't get what Jackie Chan said has anything to do with the Chinese government.

Condor,

Most of the reason I think Asian women would seek a white
man is because they want to have a chance to go to the U.S.

Many Asian women, mostly nonattractive ones advertise themselves
on the net for a chance to marry a foreigner, which includes
mostly American white men. By marrying white, they think they
will be more well-off financially, thus they don't have
to work hard....

It's also the same for Russian women. Just look at the internet.
You see lots of Asian and Russian women. It's because
they think Marrying American, especially white will bring
them financial stability.

I also think that this Asian women lusting white men
is blown out of porpotioned. If you guys take a closer
look, most Asian Woman and White Man marriage
happens because of the mail order bride service and
the G.I. factor. These relationships happens to involve
mostly lonely elderly white males desperate for
companion and not so good looking Asian girls...
There are exceptions, but according to new polls,
the amount of relationships happening this way had
been underestimated. They now claim that 65-70%
of such relationships happen this way.

And to me, that's incredible numbers.

Movies7778,

I think your response is pretty naive and miss inform. While I agree there some mail order brides out there that assumption itself is also a huge misconception. I've already said I based my opinions on experiences of living in Asia itself. Most of those women DON'T give a damn about going to America or another western country for that matter. The level of worshipping was a shock to me when I first move there. If you don't agree move to an Asian country and live there for a year or two and then post me your opinions.

Condor,

Yes, I do agree that it is pretty naive, but to some degree
you cannot dismiss the numbers. I don't know about you
but I know many white men who have ordered brides.

I have lived in the Philippines. That's
been pretty much the same. The mentality of marrying
a white man usually a white American means a climb
to the upper ladder because they automatically claim
that going to America means success.

I have two cousins who married white men through
the internet just to go to America.

I do agree with you though, that was pretty bad of
me to say that, but I guess it's a topic with much
say in the matter.

P.S. Have you ever asked those women the question?
Just wanted to know.

dude,
You should learn the meaning of words before you use them, otherwise you just look plain silly.

Condor,
I believe Jackie's comments were more a brainchild of the communist party, and he is just parroting it. In my opinion, they believe that mixed children will automatically hold a loyalty to a country they've never been to. Anyway, the basic point that I was inferring is that his comments cheapen asian women further and basically cut asian men off at the knees (simply by not mention men, he gives the opinion that AM cannot compete). If he wanted to spread asian culture, why not state he'd rather see asian men marry out, after all, their children would retain their Asian surnames in most cases.
Past rivals to the U.S. (U.K, Germany, Russia, Japan) were all seen as threats and given negative images by the U.S. media, but this is the first time I believe that a rival has actually shot themselves in the foot and saved the U.S. the trouble.

Anyway, happy 1st and 4th guy.

hehe, oops, forgot, you're an Aussie.
btw, I made a typo, where I put "he gives the opinion", it should read "impression".

Perhaps there's a certain assumption, partly based on reality, amongst those of our parents' generation, that Asian women marry white men, white women don't marry Asian men.

I was walking along the street with my mother once, and when she saw a little girl who might have been half-Asian, she said, "I wonder if that girl's father is white."

About Jackie Chan's comments, he recognises that China's economic prosperity is dependent on American goodwill. I think that's pretty much what it comes down to.

Or maybe it's a conspiracy. As more Chinese women get married off to foreigners, there will be more Chinese men left behind with nothing but pent-up frustration and anger, ticking time bombs ripe for joining the army and its upcoming assault on Taiwan. Naturally, Jackie would be very happy to see that.

Just kidding.

Movies7778, I didn?t mean to sound so harsh. I hope I didn?t upset you. Like I said I was pretty shock when I first when to live in Asia. The preference of the local girls for WM was quite something to behold. I don?t take much notice of polls, as a lot of times there are pretty much meaningless. So I don?t know how much to believe one poll that was conducted in one of the country that I lived in, but it said 95% of young girls between the aged of 14 to 18 wanted to marry a foreigner. A staggering 80%+ of women who had partners and husbands would say they were single if they were approach by a foreign man. Have I asked these women? Yes I have. Most of them unashamedly admitted that they would rather marry a Caucasian man. Some of them were so against their own culture and people it was quite shocking.

Huu76, Jackie Chan?s comment won him the biggest moron of the year award. Most AF that chooses to marry WM has little to no intention of promoting Asian culture. They are more likely to submit to western culture and turn their back on their own culture if anything else. I agree with you that idiotic comments by a well known AM like that does more damage to the AM than anything Hollywood can come up with. Again the dude has been exposed as NOTHING MORE than an ass kisser. If he was truly concern about spreading Chinese culture, than he would be promoting AM/Non-AF marriages or more pointedly No-Asian/Asian marriages. However fail to see the connection between his comments and the communist government

QUOTE

I also think that this Asian women lusting white men is blown out of porpotioned. If you guys take a closer look, most Asian Woman and White Man marriage happens because of the mail order bride service and the G.I. factor. These relationships happens to involve mostly lonely elderly white males desperate for companion and not so good looking Asian girls... There are exceptions, but according to new polls, the amount of relationships happening this way had been underestimated. They now claim that 65-70% of such relationships happen this way.

No, that is patently incorrect. Here's a REAL closer look.

From US Census 2000 numbers 40.8% of US Raised Asian-American women are married to non-Asians. Mail order brides and G.I. have no way of influencing these numbers because they would be considered foreign born.

And as an example, for foreign born Japanese American women, more of them are married to White men than Japanese men.

Just to prove the point further, for foreign born Asian women married to white men, the average age gap is 3.2 years compared to 3.4 years for those married to Asian men.

Much as people would like to call it a mail-order bride phenomenon or GI warbrides it's simply incorrect. Don't try Korean female adoptees as the excuse either, its not significant enough to account for this.

Hey Condor, I have to take issue with your characterization of Chinese women being brainwashed by Hollywood. Of course it's true that Western media is one influence, but I think you're unfairly ignoring the bigger picture. The reason many Chinese women feel no loyalty to their traditional culture is because their culture is not loyal to them.

Let's face it, Chinese society is still very patriarchal and thus values sons over daughters. We've all read about the lopsided abortion and adoption rates between boys and girls there. I don't think anyone can say that this has no effect on the psyche of a girl growing up in China.

You can't be a chauvinistic culture and also be a competitive one. If China wants to equate with the West, it is going to have to understand that.

you don't hear about arab women constantly blasting their culture, and middle eastern culture is exponentially more oppressive for women than asian culture...you don't hear white guys saying how much they feel the need to "save" arab women the way they articulate their interest in "saving" asian women from their "oppressive" men

don't get me wrong, if you're an asian woman and you are truly genuinely being treated poorly by your asian husband/boyfriend/whatever, then by all means: LEAVE the relationship. but stop making up excuses for not wanting to date asian men by saying things which feed into white male-created stereotypes.

i'm really just tired of hearing about these dating issues and the tensions between asian men and asian women.

let me try to articulate what i think is the logic behind all of this nonsense (and when i write this, i'm knowingly using broad generalities):

the world glorifies white female sexuality (especially blondes); every shade of man wants hot white women (or so the thinking goes). asian women have an inferiority complex becuz of this (whether it's height, breast size, skin color, hair color, eye size, etc.). therefore, some asian females feel that in order to be "equal" to white women, they should be w/ white men.....next, white men can't hold onto their white women becuz white women have become too independent and demanding...therefore, they want a woman they THINK is easier to deal with. hence, the search for the asian mail-order bride or something that reminds white men of this: the asian-american female. the white man realizes that he can't just go to any asian group and steal some asian guy's woman. so, he decides that he has to come up w/ all kinds of propaganda which he'll continue to repeat on a continuous basis becuz he knows that even if something isn't true, the more he keeps on saying it, some foolish people will actually start to believe it...so now, a confused asian girl who doesn't know any better and already has an inferiority complex to white women starts to believe the hype....and now, the asian male is left holding the bag....

...as far as other ethnic groups in the u.s. and any kind of tensions asian males might have w/ them, these groups just aren't important enuff in the grand scheme of things for me to waste anymore energy slamming on....though, i'm starting to find out more about what that fat-azz black b-tch (w/ the ugly hair weave and whose husband keeps on cheating on her) said about asian male penis size on her show...nobody cares about what you say oprah, you're a fat aunt jemima bi-ch w/ fake color contacts whose had one too many donuts...

by the way, i'm not talking from my own personal dating experiences (which have actually been pretty good by ANY male's standards)...but i studied a lot of asian american issues back in college and got involved w/ asian-american stuff...i've heard all the gripes..i know about all the tensions amongst "our" people.....

and for once, i'd like to hear some asian-american female public figures actually defend "us" rather than just playing along w/ the white male's desire to run us out of existence...

yeah, i'm talking about the usual villains: lucy liu, kelly hu -- the geisha's geisha, julie chen, sandra oh (even though she's butt-ugly -- the white guys can HAVE her), and whoever else JUST HAS TO "break free" from the "oppressive" asian man...i hope these females realize that most white people in this country still wonder about their immigration status, where they're "originally" from, and whether they would give massages just as good as the "cute oriental girls" at the massage parlor...and another thing, if i were actually talking to these females at once, i would say to them: "you're not the sh-t! you all look like you've had plastic surgery and you're still not that attractive anyway..."

i could go on and on....

Azman, the analogy with Arab women just isn't comparable. For one thing, there's the devoutly religious factor. For another, it's precisely because their regimes are exponentially more oppressive that women there don't even have any kind of voice to express themselves.

Which goes along with what I was saying before: you can't be both a chauvinistic society as well as a competitive one. The Arab countries have made their choice. You don't see them vying to become the next leading industrialized nations, do you?

I've never heard a white guy genuinely say he feels the need to save Asian women from oppressive Asian men. You talk about white men and their motives as if there's some collective conspiracy or something. Come on, people have preferences and make choices as individuals. Yes, many Asian women have a preference for white men, and vice versa. They're looking out for their own best interests, just like every person in this world might reasonably be expected to be.

You make the claim that most white people in this country still view Asian women as exotic toys who give good massages, as if this is an argument against Asian women dating white men. You cast this wide net impugning any and every single white man as suspect.

Come on, put yourself in an Asian woman's shoes. I mean really, really try. You as an Asian woman hear that kind of irrational vitriol spewing out of an Asian man, how is this going to affect your impression of him? Over time, how does it affect your judgment of Asian men as a whole?

Huu mentioned China shooting itself in the foot by giving itself a negative image and saving the U.S. the trouble. Azman, don't you think Asian men do the same thing every time they whine about the prevalence of Asian women who date white men?

Like I said, everyone's an individual. And of course, each person's individual choices affect how his or her group at large is perceived as a whole. And this includes everyone here.

You say you get tired of hearing about the tensions between Asian men and Asian women. Well, I get tired of hearing Asian men whining about the white man's conspiracy to make Asian men look bad, thus effectively fulfilling the prophecy that Asian men will look bad.

I'm not looking for a fight, I'm just saying what seems most reasonable to me.

yup

i've seen some of your other posts...you are not asian.....just fess up and stop pretending to be something that you are not....you are white, most likely.

why don't you be a man about it and be truthful about your racial background??

the patriarchal culture of most asian nations stems from confucianism -- a quasi-religion...therefore, the comparision to arab stuff is valid

I live my life as an individual (or at least i try as hard as possible, though it can be very difficult in a anti-asian country) but america has been an anti-asian country for most of its history. how can you possibly deny that???

you say there's no grand conspiracy among white males. you're probably right if you're saying that a whole bunch of white men aren't literally sitting around in a room thinking about how to stick it to asian men. but look at these enduring stereotypes of asian men. they've been going on for centuries. how do you think that happened? it couldn't have been just one white male who had a personal axe to grind.

and look at the way the policymakers of this country have been talking about china. all becuz they wanna buy some 2nd-tier oil company????? do you think that even if russia were to make a bid on unocal, people would be up in arms like this??

listen, the white man has historically been afraid that the asian man will take over whatever he has. this fear has lasted for centuries. whether it was when china was the preeminent power of the world back in the 1500s to the chinese railroad laborers during the early 20th century and the japanese american internment (along w/ other asian-americans who were mistaken to be japanese) to the informal quota systems that ivy league universities apply to asian-american applicants to japan's rising power during the 70s and 80s, and the asian campaign finance scandal and wen ho lee.

are you aware of what these people have done to asian people throughout history?? it's always been about "keeping these people out becuz we don't want them to take over" i don't think you've actually sat back and observed all of this stuff and tried to make sense of it. you need to connect all the dots, or at least attempt to do so.

when i learned back in high school and in college how the u.s. government opened their doors to all eurpean immigrants but applied quotas to chinese railroad workers and also forbade them from bringing their wives here, i was furious. i'm not chinese, but it easily could have been any other asian group.

did you ever consider why this country's asian population is only 5%? they wouldn't let "us" in here until the late 1960s!!!! now, a lot of asian countries have become wealthy enuff to provide for their own people so they don't have to emigrate to white countries. AND I DON'T BLAME THEM!!!!!

i sincerely try not to be angry, but look at all that's happened. do you think these were just random events? hardly.

and as far as asian women go, when they make negative comments about asian men, they should realize that they are criticizing a part of themselves as well. i'm not so sure if a lot of these girls think about that.

finally, why is that every other group in the u.s. can complain about something directed towards them?? but when asian men complain, it's becuz the asian men deserve it???

c'mon!

Wait, I couldn't possibly be Asian because I refuse to commiserate with bruised Asian male egos who prefer to wallow in pity and assign blame for their situation to everyone else but themselves?

Come on, man, if I were white, I would just toss off a quick, smart-aleck comment and leave this forum for good, rather than try to articulate my point to someone who I honestly believe could benefit from seeing things from my perspective. I might be confrontational, but I've never made a disparaging comment to anyone.

For the record, I'm Taiwanese-American.

Confucianism is a quasi-religion, and thus comparable to Islam? Come on, that defense is a joke and you know it. Last I heard, Confucianist justice systems don't order a woman to be gang raped as punishment for her brother's crime. (Okay, that happened in Pakistan, which is not an Arab country, but you get my point.)

Uh, CNOOC is a state-owned firm, and thus in league with the Chinese Communist Party. I hardly think that's a trivial concern.

Okay, I'm looking at these enduring stereotypes of Asian men. Yes, they've been propagated throughout the ages. But do you really think that without the white man working behind the scenes to spread these malicious lies, all Asian men would be seen as the virile Russell Wong lookalikes that they are?

Yeah, I'm aware of the depravity and cruelty against dark-skinned people caused by white people throughout the history of the past few centuries. What does that have to do with an Asian woman dating a white guy in the here and now, though? And would the opposite be true - would an Asian guy dating a white woman also be thought of as consorting with the "oppressor"? Because it's the same exact situation.

America is an anti-Asian country? Gee, that's funny, because I live in America, and here I was thinking that I could find a job, buy a house, raise a family (heck, with a white woman, even, if I were so to choose), and not have to deal with the secret police hunting me down for having the skin color that I do... Come on, man, what kind of victim complex talk is that?

There's a cartoon show on the Disney Channel right now called American Dragon: Jake Long, about a Chinese-American kid who, like... fights things and stuff. And other than the obvious dragon reference, they don't really make a big deal about his ethnicity. Yeah, it would have been nice if stuff like this were around back when we were kids. Well, there wasn't. But now there is. And there will be more. My point is, it's constantly getting better, man. As time goes by.

What I meant by being an individual is that you can take the situation you were given, whatever it may be, and make the best of it. Or you can sit and gripe. As an individual, you're free to do either. But ultimately, the collective actions of every individual affect the group as a whole. Both the positive and negative ones. If you're concerned about the image of Asian men in this world, think carefully about how your own words and actions affect the way all Asian men are perceived. And be truly, truly objective about it. That's not always easy, I know.

I'm not suggesting that Asian men deserve derision when they complain about genuine racism. But being pissed off because white guys are dating Asian women? Not only is that tacky and childish, it's self-defeating. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, certainly. And there are plenty of times when you have to be vocal and upfront about situations that are inherently unfair. But just because you win the crowd's sympathy doesn't mean you'll get the girl. There are times when the classy and preferable thing to do is to keep your dignity for the next round by staying silent during this one. And that applies on both a metaphysical and a physical level.

Yup, first of all there is no bruised ego here brother. Second I agree that AM have been guilty of miss treating AF in the past and the old age custom of prefering boys to girls is outdated. I've said it before AM and Asians need to get away from this sort conseverativeness. I, myself have been guilty of not treating some of my ex-girlfriends as good as I could. However this is a crime that every man of every ethnicity is guilty off and not just me or AM's only. For whatever reasons thought it seems like only AM are capable of mistreating women. Even Arab men are thought of as more capable of treating women better. So go figure.

My opinions are of those in dealing with AF's while living in Asia. Yup, please explain to me how does a 14 year girl develop the mindset that they want to marry a WM when they grow up? Surely it can't be hollywood, with these endless line of crappy movies promoting people like Brad Pit as the sexiest and most desirable man alive????? Please provide some answers.

Hey Condor, well I will have to defer to your observations regarding the attitudes of Asian women living in Asia, because I haven't been there in a long time. And now that I think about it, I recall reading an article about how Japanese women are so crazy about Korean men now, all because of some South Korean soap opera star. So maybe you're right that Asian women are very susceptible to media influences when it comes to creating their romantic fantasies.

But this doesn't change my contention that the overlying reason for these escapist fantasies in the first place is a conscious or subconscious awareness that as women, they are undervalued by their own culture, in conjunction with the notion, however fanciful, that the world reflected in popular media offers a better alternative. And yes, I do think it can and does start at a very young age.

Many of my female Asian-American friends have confided to me that the reason they are hesitant to date an Asian man is because they don't like the roles and opportunities that traditional Asian culture has to offer. They find them so distasteful that even relatively open-minded and progressive Asian men are viewed under the same suspicion, being guilty by association.

And I don't know about Australia, but here in the States, I would say the Arab man gets a worse rep than the Asian man.

Yup, well isn't it funny that some AF don't want to marry AM because they think they will automatically assume a negative role in the relationship. There it is again. Only Asian men are capable of mistreating women. I guess Caucasian men are saints and have never mistreated a women in their whole life or at least that's the perception I get. However don't you find it funny that these saints that these AF are lusting after, are contributors to an ever increasing divorce rate in western society?

While living in Asia, I knew of a girl who was engaged to a WM. She does not love him. She also told me every time I saw her that she did not want to marry the guy because she didn't want to end up being just his housewife. She was trying to delay the wedding for as long as possible so she could maintain her freedom. We were spending so much time together, while she rarely spend any time with her fiance. However she never had any thoughts of calling off the engagement simply because her mother wanted her to marry a WM. Another girl that I knew briefly before telling her where to go because she was just using me, had a WM stalking her. Again even thought she did not like the guy, she still kept him in the background, just in case she couldn't find another WM. The truth is a lot of these women just want WM because of their skin colour and their suppose superiority to AM and nothing more. The part about them wanting to be treated better blah, blah, are just all lies used to disguise their own shallowness. By the sound of things you have been well and truly brainwash by some of these AF.

A funny comment made by one of these girls, was that if she is single by time she was forty she would consider marrying me. So maybe that is the reason why these AF who only date WM want to keep AM down. They put us down so we can't find any partners so that they will have a safety net to fall back on if their relationship with WM was unsucessful. This the reason why AM should consider dating outside of their own race more. Being passive will put us at a disadvantage and allow AF to walk all over us. So in a sense we are responsible for some of our own downfall. I wish famous AM like Yao Ming and some of the major league baseball players would start dating WF, just to put these AF on notice that AM will no longer tolerate these ignorant AF and are willing to date non-asians. One thing is certain idiotic comments like Jackie Chan's is not needed. For a country that has a large imbalance of males to females, the guy is calling for more Chinese women to marry foreign men. Go figure. You've got to wonder if doing all those crazy stunts has kill all of his brain cells.

Finally I will stress it's not AF wanting to only date WM that is causing the problem. If they still treat AM with respect and stick up for us, instead bashing us from pillar to post then there would not be any problems.

yup

f-ck you. you're a moron. i'm not talking about my personal experiences. i said previously how i studied and was involved w/ asian-american issues when i was a college student. i said i heard all the gripes, etc. i'm not talking about issues facing asian men on a macro level.

what difference does it make whether it's a religion or a quasi-religion?? the point is that it's a belief system that people use to organized their societies. i was saying that as repressive as asian women say that asian culture is, look at the arabs and the way they treat women. you say, they can't complain becuz they are not allowed to. well, how come you don't hear much from arab-american women? they're not gonna get shot for talking here!!!

and if not arabs, how about indians?? they have a very repressive culture as well. are they're a whole bunch of indian-american women saying how they can't stand indian men. look at hispanic culture. that's a very chauvinistic culture as well. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!!

you may not be white, but you're carrying the white man's water w/ your statements.

stop writing. just observe and read, ok? see what's happening in this country.

i told you to try putting all the dots together. you haven't done that yet.

Well, Azman, I am talking about bruised Asian male egos in a macro sense as well. And I'm not going to try and match wits with your delicately censored profanities, sorry.

Condor, I think we agree more than we disagree, it's just that we're coming from two completely different observational standpoints. I don't know the situation in Asia or Australia, but here in the States, I get the feeling that race relations are much more advanced. In defense of my Asian female friends who prefer to date white men, I think their preferences were shaped long before they became aware of race issues. We can't help who we're attracted to. In fact, some of these Asian women are even pretty involved in the Asian-American activist community. And in all fairness, I should mention that I also have Asian male friends who exclusively date white women, for similarly petty reasons.

But I haven't been brainwashed by anyone. I simply feel that it's no business of mine why one person would choose to date or marry another. Maybe they truly are in love. Or maybe they're just saying that to cover their actual motives which are extremely shallow. Whatever. It's none of my business, and my input probably wouldn't be welcome anyway. People are free to do whatever they want. So I choose to focus my energy on the things that I as an individual have the power to change, and ignore what I have no control over.

And thus I completely agree with you when you say that Asian men are partly responsible for their own downfall. By constantly complaining that they are being held down by the white man, they are passing up the opportunity to define themselves on their own terms. I recommend anyone who's read up to this point to take a look at Goldsea's list of 70 most inspiring Asian Americans, and ask themselves how those people got there, especially when many of them lived during a time of much greater intolerance than where we are today. Did they sit around and complain about the system? Or did they accept the system for what it was, and seek to change it from within? If more of our fellow Asian men recognized this, then we wouldn't need a Yao Ming or Ichiro to pave the way, because the changes effected on a microcosmic level would positively affect our overall image on a macrocosmic level.

The people on that list helped make our present world better than the one that they were given. And likewise, maybe it's too late to change the perception of Asian men amongst those of our own age, but we have the opportunity to improve it for future generations, and to make their world even better than ours. That's why I mentioned the cartoon show about an Asian-American boy in an earlier post. In gradual steps, it's getting better.

By the way, none of that last part was addressed to you personally, Condor. I was just speaking in general.

Just went back to the website and noticed you updated your post, Azman. I'll get to it in a second.

Azman, are you talking about issues facing Asian men on a macro level, or are you not? In an earlier post, before you edited it, you said you were. Now you say you're not. Please clarify.

I wasn't making an issue of whether Confucianism is a religion or a quasi-religion. I was questioning whether Confucianism can even compare to Islam in terms of the rigidity and extent of control it exerts over the people of a particular society.

Also, your argument holds no water because we DO hear from women here in the West who come from repressive Muslim societies. All the time, man. You ever hear of Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

You bring up Indians and Hispanics. You do realize that the rates of outmarriage for their women are around as high as those of Asian women, right? The only difference is that Indian and Hispanic men are too busy having fun with their own interracial flings to bother noticing. Okay, I say that somewhat in jest. But basically, they do in fact face the same issues that we do, so I don't see how that supports your argument.

Fine, I'll open my eyes. So what IS happening in this country? You tell me. Give me the gist of it. Seriously. If it's a genuinely worrisome situation, I'll gladly join your militia.

yeah, i meant that i WAS talking about it on a macro level...

i don't feel obligated to educate you anymore

you're obviously not asian and are pretending to be one. you probably need professional help.

go away troll!!!

Well, like I mentioned earlier, there are times when the classy and preferable thing to do is to keep one's dignity for the next round by staying silent on the current one. I think I'll follow my own advice.

With that said, I'm off for the three-day weekend. Hope you all have a good Independence Day. To those of you for whom that is applicable, anyway.

Yup, I still don't buy anyway of your defense for your AF friends. I wouldn't date an Asian girl anymore unless I really have to. In fact I don't even speak to them anymore, but that's because I have had far too many bad experiences with them in the past in both Australia and Asia. There is only so much negativity a person can put up with. You may not be fat, but if someone is telling you that you are fat day in, day out then eventually you would probably believe that you are fat. You know what they say, "if you tell a lie enough, it will eventually become the truth".

The problem I have with the self proclaim "I only date WM" AF is that most of these women have NEVER dated an Asian guy and are basing their opinions entirely on stereotype BS. You said it yourself, "their preference were shaped long before race become an issue". So I guess they believe that Asian men have not evolve in the past one hundred years. That we are ALL still chauvinistic, controlling etc etc. While there may still be some AM's with those type of characteristics, there are also some that have long since moved on from that but how are these AF's ever to know if they "only date WM". They then compound the problem by shooting off stereotypes like we are ALL Russell Wong's character in Joy Luck club. AM are not even given a chance to proof their worth and are already discarded because of prejudice views developed based on the attitudes of AM from hundreds of years ago. I am sorry this just isn't good enough. So I guess your message to fellow Asian men is to bent over and take it up the a$$ and be passive. That way we look classy. While these AF's have a free reign to continue to act like air-headed bimbos and spread ill-form and obviously outdated crap about AM to anyone who would listen.

Again I could not give a damn about what Asian women do these days but I will not neglect these type of issues that put AM at a disadvantage. Where I do agree with you is that Asian men need to start evaluating where they are going wrong and make the necessary changes in their lives to improve their chances of attracting a partner. Ditching old, conservative and outdated values on life is probably a good start.

Condor, you may call it "bend over and take it up the a--", I simply call it "live and let live." I don't think anyone is being affronted in those situations. Does a white man "take it up the a--" every time he encounters a white woman dating an Asian man?

Again, we might be dealing with very different observations and experiences here. My Asian female friends are not the kind to speak ill of Asian men. I know their preferences only because we're close enough that they're willing to confide in me. I might not have explained their positions clearly earlier. It's not that they think Asian men are Neanderthals, it's just that they're conditioned not to be attracted to them on a very primal level, for many different reasons. Even very minor, subtle things, like watching their brothers get slightly more respect from their parents throughout their childhood, went a long way in turning them off to their native culture, and thus turning them off to Asian men by association.

My friends are not stupid. Some of them eventually realized the folly of their logic, and started dating Asian men with a vengeance. Some of them stayed with their white partners, but also became very involved in the activist community, raising awareness of Asian-American issues.

The Asian women you've encountered, by contrast, seem absolutely brutal, and I agree that the best course of action is to get away from them and not deal with their negativity to begin with.

I'm not advocating being passive. I'm simply saying, look for the results. A person might have a valid point to make, but if making that point doesn't get him any results, then maybe he should question the wisdom of making that point in the first place. Sometimes the most dignified course of action really is to just live and let live.

Like you, I pretty much only date non-Asian women these days, but I don't think that ignoring Asian women simply out of spite is the answer.

But I'll be honest, I really don't have any better answers to offer.

i've been hearing that asian men are treated way better in denmark, france, brazil, panama, and other south american countries (than in the u.s.).

is there any validity to this?

I for one, speaking from a west coast perspective, have not experienced this WM only phenomena. Sure, there are a handful of AF who, prehaps, only date WM and that is great. I find it extremely amusing when I encounter a AF who acts like that. However, on the whole, I don't feel discriminated by girls, of any ethnicity, because I am Asian.

I wonder why "some" people get incrediably upset when the female counterpart from their "race" dates other "races" exclusively yet they themselves do the same thing. If someone can't find even one high level AF from a population of ~750MM+ in the world, maybe, just maybe, they are the problem and not AF's in general? just a thought.

I don't know about the rest of the world but the AM out marriage rate has been increasing exponentially in the US. Most people don't even care about race. We all, genetically, came from the same group of people who migrated out of africa a long time ago. We are all the same "race". Get over it.

Yup, it's been a good discussion. I am sticking by the things I've said. Again my opinions were form based on travelling and living in a lot of different countries and from talking to and dating a fair number of girls (I am not trying to boast that I am a stud here but just merely trying to say I am not one of these guys who sits on their ass and moan) . They weren't form as a result of one or two bad experiences. However rather moan and do nothing, I've made the necessary changes in my life and as result I've never been more happier.

However I feel we are drifting away from the real subject of this thread. That is, what the hell is Jackie Chan trying to achieve by encouraging more foreign men to marry Shanghai women. He is obviously trying to kiss someone's butt here and just trying to hide behind the lie that it is a way to spread Chinese culture.

Azman, the only to validate those claims is to travel to those country and chat up as many women as you can. Give it a go and report back your findings. Also I have never lived in America but I have not had that many problems hooking up with WF's from the US during my travels. Maybe those that have travel overseas are more open minded than the ones who haven't. I've also come across dating website in the US where WF specifically request that only AM reply. So is the situation that bad over there? Maybe it's just a case of a lot of AM lacking the confidence to actually approach and chat up a WF. Again unless you've gone out and have approach a large number of WF in the US and have been rejected every time than maybe it is not as bad as you think. You know the grass always seem greener on the other side. Again I maybe off the mark here, so correct me if I am wrong.

condor

i have no plans to travel outside the u.s. anytime soon

i didn't raise that question for personal reasons

it's just i've heard it several times, and i wanted to know if there was any truth to it

i don't really understand why it is that when any asian man brings up things re: negative things directed towards asian men as a group, there are always others (including individual asian men) who dismiss what is brought up as just some negative personal experience on the part of that asian man.

in this case, since i'm "complaining" about the negative perception of asian men, it's becuz i cannot get a date! you people need to carefully read what i'm saying. i'm not talking about my own experiences. i've said that before.

and as i've said before, every other group in the u.s. is allowed to complain about things directed towards them and no one really criticizes them, but if asian men complain about anything, it's becuz they brought it on themselves. what hypocrisy!

and if you don't agree w/ what i'm saying or you're living in denial saying, "oh well..that's not me...i've never had that problem"...well f-ck you! i could care less about your damn life.

Azman, I wasn't having a go at you and most certainly wasn't suggesting you can't get a date. However a question like the one you posted is hard to validate. While some are lucky to have positive experiences with say a girl from Denmark others may not. It will vary from individual to individual. Sometime some people go overseas and have experiences that are more positive than the ones they receive at home, they will automatically put that country on a pedestal, when the truth is, it may only be slightly better than where you live in the US.

Anyway, again I am surprise by the lack of responses to Jackie Chan's actual comments. I mean this is where the real issue is. A famous AM selling out his own brothers to kiss someone's butthole. Is no one even remotely concern? I mean we are all jumping up and down about negative stereotyping by the media and here we have one of our own clown who has just gone and done more damage than any thing that Hollywood could ever write up and hardly anyone is saying a thing.

Maybe he should start donating some of his millions of dollars to help stop the human tracking of women in China, if he was really concern about doing the country and Asian women some good. I mean that's what the famous soccer club Manchester United is doing http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2...tent_456968.htm. This great for women in China and I wish them well. However it's another case of AM being the evil guys and the knights in shining armour coming to the rescue are the WM. It's cases like this, Yup, that I agree witn you that AM aren't doing themselves any favours.

I like Condor's suggestions, back to the original topic. We all know everybody either has or hasn't got a beef with the dating thing.

Anyway, what about my other two points? Is China destined to be another Mexico in the sense that it's only good for cheap labour and a Brazil where there are lots of people but not much money to go around? Look what happened to Mexico once someone willing to undercut them came along, and Brazil who's only known for thongs and soccer.
Also, with China buying up Western brands, it doesn't really impress (or scare) anyone. All the high profile buyouts are of companies who are barely keeping their heads above water or are on their last legs. Lenovo-IBM's operations are already in China so they can't squeeze any more profit there. There aren't too many breakthroughs left in PCs. The use of IBM's brand name is limited to 5 years, which may help Lenovo when they blend the names, but I don't think it'll help much because IBM is already a has-ran in the PC market.
Maytag is one of the last names I think about when it comes to appliances, although I believe this purchase is more for know-how and distribution. There is benefit for Maytag because they can still move the jobs overseas.
Do either of these points make you want to say "I'm proud to be Chinese"? It seems to me that the work Asian-Americans (of all groups) have done and the progress that's been made could be undermined simply by the view of "guilty by association". To me, a hard working immigrant family has a better image than a native Chinese one.

Kids,

Stay off drugs or you will become => Huu76

The guy is 29 years old but still dosen't know how to express his thoughts.


Condor,

Uhh, so why should Yao Ming date a WF? Why not a non-asian chick? Why don't you just stop bashing AF's because you are acting exactly like those self hating AF's.

1.) Trash talk about asians of the opposite sex
2.) Date exclusively with white people of the opposite sex.

huu76,

I think you are comparing apples and oranges here. China has a lot influence in Asia and is becoming a force on the international scene. They are a military power, whereas Mexico and Brazil are not. It is also far more technologically advance than those two countries. Obivously I am not 100% aware of all the issues they face but having 1.3 billion people makes it very difficult to ensure everyone has a high standard of living. Having travel through the country a couple of times, it is quite evident the gap between the rich and the poor is getting wider and wider. This is something the government will need to control.

However I don't understand why you are so anti-chinese. Like every other country, it's not perfect but hopefully they are making strides to improve the lives of its citizen. As a decendent from that country I would like to see it prosper even thought it was responsible for driving my ancestors from it.

Yup,

Quit trollin [epithet]

Huu,

You proved me right again, you're a moron. There is no point debating with you in any topic. Your austronesian-negrito genes make you incapable of debating with facts. Your constant bashing of Chinese people for no particular reason in any thread make you a white loving hypocritical a$$hole.

Condor,
Since you're the only one here who has a brain (well, probably AC too if he were here), this link is for you. Something for you to think about, but blind trust is dangerous you know. http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005/06...1112468-ap.html. 3 separate incidents, 3 people, 3 different times (I'm sure you're aware of the other two). Wait until Australia implements its free trade pact, you might feel different once the growing pains affect you. Unlike the United States, Australia doesn't have enough clout to fight back on it's own.
I think you're mistaken about China being a military power, it can't project it beyond its shores. China even needs the Russians to talk tough for them in SCO. That doesn't make Asians look very tough now does it?

Focker,
What were we debating again? I'm having a hard time remembering what you haven't written since this is your first post here. I guess the Germans and French aren't white? Damn those black Russians.

PLA.
As usual, little sizzle, even less steak.

Both of you, don't be upset because deep down inside, you both know my points are all true. Just count yourselves lucky you're already over here.

Huu

Did you go to college? What do you do for a living? I'm flabbergasted at what you are saying.

Regarding the Chinese military poweress; China is the only Asian nation that has the power to dystroy the entire world within 2 hours. There are only 3 other nations that can do this, USA, Russia and the UK.

The only nation that can project beyond their own shores and fight a medium-large sized war is the USA. No other country can do this. So China can't, currently, so what? There is no need for it.

You are a very delusional person.

Huu writes:
"Both of you, don't be upset because deep down inside, you both know my points are all true. Just count yourselves lucky you're already over here."

Deep inside, I know you're a poor Viet. Just count yourself lucky you're already here or you be working in some rice field owned by Chinese people instead of a restaurant owned by Chinese people.

PLA,
Wrong, the UK are able to project their power for an extended duration, and eventhough I loathe to admit it, so can the French. If you can't remember anything about me, go back and take a look in the forum where you say you'll be more than happy to go fight for China, even if it's against the U.S.A.
"So what China can't project its power?" I can't believe you just asked that considering China yearns to be a superpower. No, Russia and the U.S. are the only two nations capable of making us all extinct (remember that link to the Trident subs you say don't exist?). America is the only country who can pre-emptively deliver its arsenal without warning.
If you look past all the flash and hype and actually understood the underlying principles, you'd see that China's momentum is limited. I've provided more than enough links/proof around the forums to backup my views. Unlike some people.

Focker,
You're still shooting blanks. Hmmm, working for Chinese in a rice field or a restaurant. Sounds like honest work. Do you think that's better or worse than being "slaves" of corporate America? You know, that's pretty well all China's citizens are now. Way to go Chinese gov't.

Anyone notice that China was been pretty quiet regarding the bombings in London? India too. For countries who want to be included in the G7 (Russia doesn't really belong since it's neither wealthy nor a true democracy), they could show some class and atleast "feign" sympathy. Oh well.

"Focker,
You're still shooting blanks. Hmmm, working for Chinese in a rice field or a restaurant. Sounds like honest work. Do you think that's better or worse than being "slaves" of corporate America? You know, that's pretty well all China's citizens are now. Way to go Chinese gov't.

Anyone notice that China was been pretty quiet regarding the bombings in London? India too. For countries who want to be included in the G7 (Russia doesn't really belong since it's neither wealthy nor a true democracy), they could show some class and atleast "feign" sympathy. Oh well."

Every time you write, you keep on proving that I am right.

http://news.morningstar.com/news/DJ/M07/D0...LINE001719.html

Looks like Vietnam is the one who is qiet about the London bombing.

Dont' bother replying back unless you have something factual to write, in which case I highly doubt.

Huu

[quote]Wrong, the UK are able to project their power for an extended duration, and eventhough I loathe to admit it, so can the French. [\quote]

I said power projections for medium-large war. The UK can only bully banana republics.

[quote]If you can't remember anything about me, go back and take a look in the forum where you say you'll be more than happy to go fight for China, even if it's against the U.S.A.[\quote]

You are quite the liar, aren't you? Care to provide a link?

[quote]Russia and the U.S. are the only two nations capable of making us all extinct (remember that link to the Trident subs you say don't exist?). America is the only country who can pre-emptively deliver its arsenal without warning.[\quote]

Technically, there are no Trident subs. Trident is the name for the SLBMs that the LA class SSBN carries. As for the rest, do some research before making absurd claims. Do you know how to do research?

Oh and slaves to corporate America? Unless you are a capitalist, you are a "slave", just like everyone else.

huu, what the hell you viet -cong ever do for man kind? LOL you people are the lowest kind in the history. If you talk about slave you vietnamese was slave to the chinese for over 1000 year, don't forget it foo. after china became weak you became the french slave for 200 year. China help you kick the french and american out of that crappy land of your, then we help make and form your country. You viet cong ever wonder who gave your country name? LOL

If you want to talk about slave let do it. Right now there alot of vietnamese working for chinese company in vietnam so i guess in your way of thinking, vietnamese is slave to the chinese.LOL

Huu, please stick to your BS and don't act like you know anything about military. china military might not be stronger than US but is one of the most powerful and reaspected in the world. China can blow your country in 2 second and noone can do anything about it okay. One last thing, please take that ungly picture of your out because it makeing the asian men look bad, you look like a dumb ass. LLOL

Focker,
So you corrected my statement. However, how many North Americans and Europeans see this? Eventhough it's in the AP, why haven't any major television and print mediums reported this? As far as I'm concerned, with little to no exposure, it has the same effect as remaining silent.
btw, you have to make a point before you can claim you proved someone wrong. Claiming things after the fact is rather weak. What's that saying, "hindsight is always 20/20"?
Slaves don't approach 6 figures.

Cold,
No one expects Vietnam to make a statement just like no one expects Denmark, Mexico and other countries not vying for superpower status to put in their two cents. You'll have to try harder than the usual slurs to bother me. Viet cong or not, they managed to defeat the U.S. in the history books didn't they? For the record, it was the threat of direct retaliation from the U.S.S.R. that stopped the U.S. from invading the North outright. Do you even know which is my country? My pic bothers you, more the reason to leave it on.

PLA,
Read closer. http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfi.../ship-ssbn.html Ohio-Class/Trident SSBN. Yes, they also have missiles called tridents too. To play the name game, what do they call F-117s and F-22s? Do they go by their names or just by Stealth fighters?
http://goldsea.com/PAC/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=362 Incase the link doesn't work, it's the first page of the Japan/China forum. No amount of denial can take back what you said.
China-lovers on the west coast should think about moving inland to the hick states, or back to China. Seems like the PLA is itching to prove itself and would us nukes (first) against America in a war for Taiwan (point 3 in the middle). Why this stuff doesn't make it into the mainstream media is beyond me (although it does shelter Asians from negative images doesn't it). http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/china/watchingchina.html (the link is a bit out of date though, and is lacking in some areas).

Huu76

Are you blind, delusional or both? Here is what I said. Then you accuse me of wanting to fight America.

QUOTE

Even though I am American, I will be ready to sacrifice my life in a full scale war against the Japanese.

When did the Japanese = Americans? You are a liar, pure and simple.

QUOTE

Read closer. http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfi.../ship-ssbn.html Ohio-Class/Trident SSBN. Yes, they also have missiles called tridents too. To play the name game, what do they call F-117s and F-22s? Do they go by their names or just by Stealth fighters?

Huu, don't humiliate yourself and pretend to know anything about the miiltary. Technically, there are no trident submarines. Your source proves it. I don't "play the name game" it is only people like you, who don't know anything about the military, that "plays the name game".

QUOTE

China-lovers on the west coast should think about moving inland to the hick states, or back to China. Seems like the PLA is itching to prove itself and would us nukes (first) against America in a war for Taiwan (point 3 in the middle). Why this stuff doesn't make it into the mainstream media is beyond me (although it does shelter Asians from negative images doesn't it).

Hey, little VC, you need to take a few more ESL classes. I no understand your english.

"No one expects Vietnam to make a statement just like no one expects Denmark, Mexico and other countries not vying for superpower status to put in their two cents. You'll have to try harder than the usual slurs to bother me. Viet cong or not, they managed to defeat the U.S. in the history books didn't they? For the record, it was the threat of direct retaliation from the U.S.S.R. that stopped the U.S. from invading the North outright. Do you even know which is my country? My pic bothers you, more the reason to leave it on."

You Viet Cong got to so dumb-LOL I?m laughing my ass off, can't believe what a dumb ass you are. Why don't you go learn something about the Vietnam War, is just like the Korea War okay. Vietcong managed to defeat the U.S., LOL LOL LOL 3 million Viet Cong out of 50,000 American. LOL LOL you Viet Cong can sure kick some ass. LOL LOLOL You vietcong never win any battle agianst the American. American lost the war because of hippie at home. If china didn't supply you Viet-cong with food and weapon you low life viet-cong would be end in 2 second of american bombing. If you talking about Russia suppy you with weapon, they have to go though china to you country first, so without us you piece sh!t country would be bomb to dead.

The only reason the US didn't invade North vietnam is because of China you freaking dumb ass, they remember what happen in the Korea War. China the one that help you low braggers more than russia ever did and what a low vietcong do in return? You bragger back stab china- you people can?t fight for jack- you need china to help you kick the French out of your country- than you need china to help kick the American out again. LOL LOL LOL

Learn some history dumb ass and one more thing I?m major in history so you need some more Viet Cong education to talk to me. LOL LOL

If you care about the Asian image so much, I think you should look at your face, cause you killing the asian image with you ugly dumb ass face. LOL LOL

PLA,
Did you read my post at the bottom of that page? I stated that the United States would automatically defend Japan with their forces stationed there, therefore you would be fighting Americans by default. You did not reply to that then. I don't need to lie.

It's not my fault you can't read. Maybe spending less time as a counterstrike stud might help you out.

Cold,
Here's some history for you, I believe it was the French who kicked China out of Vietnam. http://www.debatabase.org/details.asp?topicID=305. Also, China and Russia were tripping over each other to get the credit for assisting the North (Sino-Soviet split ring a bell). The North played the U.S., Russia and China to get their independence. Look at the kill ratio and tell me who the U.S. is afraid of more, China's hordes or the Soviet Unions nukes? http://www.centurychina.com/history/krwarcost.html. Remeber that the U.S. involvement in Corea was longer than China's too.
Note: Since WW2, China has been the regional aggressor. They have attacked...

Tibet http://orbat.com/site/sinoindianwar/1.htm
S.Corea (China backed the aggressor)
Russia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_b...der_conflictand (check out their heroic tactics in the 2nd paragraph).
Vietnam http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/charlie/chi...vietnam1979.htm

QUOTE

Learn some history dumb ass and one more thing I?m major in history so you need some more Viet Cong education to talk to me

That's it? You do know history generally isn't that ambiguous right?

Are you using civilian deaths to pad your numbers? http://25thaviation.org/id275.htm#vietnam_..._war_casualties

Go back and read all of my posts and tell me where I directly degrade the Chinese people (possibly with the exception of the G7 comment)? All of my comments are observations of gov't policies set to make their leaders bask in grandeur with little regard for the people that are supposedly to benefit from them. In turn, the global low view of the Chinese people will indirectly be cast upon all Asians over here. Foolish is the tongue that lashes out blindly. It seems to me you cannot accept the truth that China is partaking in the wrong direction.

Here's a tip, perhaps they should mimic Japan. Here's the 2nd wealthiest country in the world and no one dares touch them. They were also the first Asian nation to beat a Western power. That must really sting the Communist party.

Both of you.
Aside from entertaining your feeble attempts at counterpoints (sounds more like venting frustrations), tell me how China is improving the Asian image then? A little more obvious than Yao, Liu Xiang and Yang Liwei (which unfortunately barely registered on the global stage). Aside from Yao Ming, their accomplishments have been overshadowed by all the negative points I've stated.

huu76, thanks for the link. Quite frankly I don't understand what all the fuss is about. Spies have been in existed for thousands of years, so it's not like it's anything new. Every country have them and why is it a surprise to anyone is beyond me. As for the defections, its always a possibility that it could happen. Unlike what hollywood tries to portray, being a spies in real life isn't quite as glamourous as being James Bond. You know drinking Martinees, seducing hot looking women and being the hero that saves the world. Chen the Chinese defected has a family. Think of the of the stresses he has to deal with being a spy and at the same time trying to raise a family. It's not exactly the most stable of career choice to do that is it? Besides American spies have also been known to have sold out their own countries for Russian [privates] and extra cash.

China as with every other country has flaws and negatives. If you look hard enough of course you are gonna find some. I think huu76, you've been looking extremely hard. As for Japan, if you've been following that countries foreign affairs, you will know that their insistance of killing and eating whales lead to considerable bad press in the Asian Pacific region. http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/Japan-...9119717660.html. Hardly a model to follow if we are talking about improving the image of asians here.