Browsing these boards, I frequently see topics regarding american men being sexist and bigoted, and that there is great oppression against Minority classes. Although I do agree that American society is arranged in such a way to keep minorities in the lower-and-middle classes and the whites in middle-upper classes, why does it seem that as a white male I am immediately flagged as someone to be hostile towards?

I have a Chinese-American girlfriend, and I've been with her for about a year now. I know that I love her a lot, and I honestly want to be with her. When I'm out in public, other Asians and minorities seem to scowl at me at look at me as if I'm some sexual predator....and its really making me angry. How is it that because a white guy finds black hair, tan skin, and dark eyes really pretty that makes him an american anglo-saxon oppressor?

To me, it seems like the Asian people want to keep to themselves, and when I try to have a relationship with someone of that ethnicity, I'm a bad guy? If we're promoting Asian Unity, then possibly unity towards the white people that aren't racist should be promoted too. Furthering unity between racial groups is only going to exacerbate problems unless OVERALL relations are improved.

Crimsonblade,

The "scowls" you've experience is not a bunch of asian men wanting to keep asian women to themselves but the ridiculously lopsided nature of white/asian relationships.

If white girls are as willing to date asian men as their white brother are sleeping with asian girls then this wouldn't be an issue.

On top of that America rubs it in with its vicious stereotype of asian men as a sort of subhuman nerd race destine to becoming society's eunuchs.

You can then understand why this touches an exposed nerve among asians.

CrimsonBlade

How old are you and how old is your girlfriend?

Are you both of the same nationality? IE Americans?

I don't mind two Americans dating, or smiliarily aged people dating who share similiar life experiences. However, it is disgusting to see a large age gap between the WM/AF couple, added to the fact they do not even share a similiar culture.

QUOTE

Why does it seem that as a white male I am immediately flagged as someone to be hostile towards?

I know quite a few ethnic Asians (I'm White) and personally I don't think these boards are an accurate representation of attitudes at least among Asians raised in the US towards Caucasians. Also I think these boards tend to be a release valve for some people's frustrations. I have no doubt that some people on these boards who complain about Whites in general have White friends that they really like.

QUOTE

When I'm out in public, other Asians and minorities seem to scowl at me at look at me as if I'm some sexual predator

Well first the scowls from other minorities (Blacks, Latinos..?) don't mean squat. Yes it's bothersome but don't let it get to you. The looks from Asians...? She's feeling it worse than you very likely. Remain as cool as possible. Looks like from your zip code you live in a realtively small town with a low percentage of Asians. In that case you could try to befriend some of the scowlers when your girlfriend isn't around. Anger, resentment, and prejudice tend to dissipate when you directly engage people in a non hostile manner. (Of course there may be people who remain very prejudiced..) Yep, hostility from Asians towards Whites over marriage and/or dating issues (and the Asians who are dating them) definitely exists (Also towards Asian men dating Whiote women)? but you can't let it get down if you love girlfriend.

QUOTE

....and its really making me angry.

I don't want to sound patronizing (From your profile I see that I am old enough to be your father..) and it's easier said than done but you can't let these people get to you. This stuff won't go away first of all and second of all it may start becoming a larger component of your relationship such that the fun parts are overcome by the unpleasant parts which will lead to the inevitable break up.

And as for the question on the header of your post:

QUOTE

Is There Any Kinship (With Asians) Towards White People?

Damn straight there is. I can think of a number of instances where Asian friends of mine have stuck their necks out for me, in particular two cases where White people who I had "known" for years DID NOT.

Crimsonblade,

I don't know what the situation is like in the US but I can't imagine it to be too different than in Australia. I have a sister who is married to a WM and they have two wonderful kids together. I have a few close Caucasians friends who are dating asian women. Hence I am totally not against any WM going out with AF. If that's what you find interests you than good on ya. As for are there any kinship between Asian and Whites. Well of course there are. I've stood up for my Caucasian friends many times as with all my other friends.

There are also some Asians who likes keeping to themselves like you said. However you will find that amongst people of all races. So what is the problem you may ask? Well the problem has to do with the way AFs treat their fellow asian brothers when going out with a WM. While there are a number of AF who have Caucasian partners who still remained respectful, a majority are quite ignorant and quite arrogrant. Some of these AFs will go out of their way to kiss up to a Caucasian guy even if it means she has to totally degrade AMs to do so. To totally degrade a race of men to gain the acceptance of another is just not acceptable. I've been on the receiving end of extreme racism from some AFs that have WM partners and I can tell you that it's not a pleasant experience.

So if you are geniunely concern about race relations between whites and asians, than the next time you hear an asian girl, whether that happens to be your GF or not say something negative about AM, tell her what she said or did was wrong. If you do this and your GF doesn't have a snobby attitude towards AM than NO AM will have a problem with you going out with Asian girls.

Ha ha ha. Condor, why don't you stop dissing asian women?

You come from a family of sell-outs, yourself included. Your sister is married to a WM and you exclusively date WF's.

You are such a hypocrite. Loser.

Hmmm interesting. No new replies from anyone on this topic.

Hey Condor,

sad to hear about your comment re AFs being a sell out to you etc.

But glad to hear that you are trying to promote some positive viewpoints re Asian/Caucasian r'ships. I'm an AF from Australia and I think that it all boils down to the individual. Each are responsible for their own actions and I think that the race issue clouds the fact that individuals can act pretty selfishly.

Well I'm new to the post and I dunno whether you are an AF hater. I hope not!

JK

And Condor, is that a Wallabies Jersey in your photo? V.Aussie!

Jade King,

Yeah, Condor dislikes Asian women.

jade king,

asian girls are the best!! no arguements!! they are the most beautiful. hot facial features...nice skin.....great heart. what more can i ask from a woman??

asian girls rock!

i am an asian dude by the way.......hehehehehe

Hi Jade King,

Yeah that is a Wallabies jumper and rugby is something I am quite passionate about. Yes I do tend to have a very negative attitude towards Asian women. The reason being I've only recently returned to live in Australia after living in Asia for the past several years. I won't elaborate too much but the BS I had to put up with from AFs there, almost resulted in my unexpected death. While it wasn't the only reason, it was for the most part, the main reason why I had a stoke. That's right a damn stoke. So excuse me for sounding so harsh. However even in Australia, I find a lot of AFs that look anything above average also tend to think they are too good for Asian men. Basically, I'd had enough. If you are an exception, than good on ya.

Take it easy.

Conder may have anti-AF tendencies, but he refrains from making himself look foolish unlike many AF supporters who can't handle a well reasoned point of view.

I'd have to say Redneck Asians (me) who grow up in the sticks will have more of a kinship or affinity with whites than city Asians or FOBs. When you're pretty well surrounded by whites, you learn how to judge people by how they act (they reciprocate the same depending on how you treat them), not purely on the fact they look like you (which I think is prevalent in the cities now since every group seems to have segregated itself). Like manwhowalks, I've had my white friends back me up, however I've always felt that "most" fellow Asians are only looking out for number one, and will turn the instant it suits them. Don't get me wrong, I know a few whites who'd skin me alive if they needed to.

Regarding the attitudes towards AFs. Beauty's skin deep and it's all relative and open to debate. However, when it comes to attitude and personality, I find AFs seem to be the worst. The ones whom I think show these traits the least are Japanese women, but I think this has more to do with Japan being the leader in Asia for the longest period of time; they don't need to "exhibit" new found status or money.

Indo,
Hah, great heart, that's rich. Google "China paternity test", you'll be surprised. Quit drowning yourself to portray them as walking on water.

Condor

Yes, those sick disgusting sell-out AF's. How horriable

Would you like to share your feelings about your sister? The one who sold out AM's, like you?


Huu76

I have concluded you have a mental IQ 2 standard deviations to the left of the mean, on a normally distributed graph.

Good day now.

QUOTE

Would you like to share your feelings about your sister? The one who sold out AM's, like you?

Why do you care? It's not like you're going to date her.

This forum is becoming more pedantic every other day.

PLA,
Those are some pretty fancy words, starting quantitative methods have we? I'd be more impressed (and maybe even insulted) if you had provided some numerical values (without numbers, it can still be interpreted in positive ways. You should've used 6-sigma instead). Here's something to research (come on, humour me). My IQ is 121. Since I'm in the lowest 5%, what's my bell curve look like? (you do know how to interpret a bell curve right?) This might give you some solace though, according to the IQ scale, it's not recommended that I go into civil or mechanical engineering (hehe, good thing I'm in electrical eh).

I'll give you credit for trying atleast, you didn't make yourself sound foolish (although it sounds ripped straight from a text book). Anyways, and a good day to you too.

Huu76

QUOTE

You should've used 6-sigma instead). Here's something to research (come on, humour me).

A person with a 6-sigma IQ to the left of the mean cannot be expected to compose paragraphs with any legible meaning. Oh wait, that does sound like you.

QUOTE

My IQ is 121. Since I'm in the lowest 5%, what's my bell curve look like? (you do know how to interpret a bell curve right?)

You claim that your IQ is 121 and in the lowest 5%? The mean IQ is 100 with standard deviations of 15%. The question should be;do YOU know how to interpret a bell curve? There can be two possibilities.

1.) You admit to being in the lowest 5% of the population in terms of IQ.
2.) You don't know how to interpret a bell curve.

Well, which is it? So you want to get another round of intellectual arse whooping eh?



LilZalan

What's it to you? Do you have a problem with me being offended that a hypocrite attacks Asian Females?

Huu,

Let him have this thread.

Lil Zalan

I ownz you.

Liljan,
Last comment because it's obvious PLA doesn't know what he's talking about despite what he keeps telling himself. It's nice to see that he's consistent though.

PLA, oh me oh my, you're a hoot.
My IQ is 121. Since you say I'm in the lowest 5%, that means everyone in my sample pop'n has IQs in the 130+ range (PhD and scientist level. Pretty good company in my opinion). FYI: 1 S.D. either way covers 68% of the sample pop'n. 2 S.D. covers 95%. 3 does 99%. Here's a tip, S.D. % don't change, only the number of occurrences that fall within their range do. Also, mean is not a set value, it changes with each application depending on the data collected. Your #s show you're just full of BS, and you're failing quite miserably in pretending you know anything about stats.

btw, my bell curve would be steep. Like I said, your make-believe garbage gives me more than enough room to mold it to my advantage. Look up Motorola and you'll understand why I recommended you use 6-sigma instead.

Anyways, go ahead and post again, we could all use another good chuckle.

Hey JinZalan, did you notice PLA's first comment to you was that "he owned" you? I'm assuming he believes he put you in your place without actually saying anything. This guy has a tendency to imagine things, probably some psychological imbalance or defect. There sure are alot of weirdos out there.

Huu76

QUOTE

My IQ is 121. Since you say I'm in the lowest 5%, that means everyone in my sample pop'n has IQs in the 130+ range

Hey kid, I never said your IQ was 121. Do you have a reading problem? Are you sure your're not mentally handicapped?

QUOTE

btw, my bell curve would be steep. Like I said, your make-believe garbage gives me more than enough room to mold it to my advantage. Look up Motorola and you'll understand why I recommended you use 6-sigma instead.

TQM, 6-Sigma, wow, you know it all don't ya? What did I make up? Your bell curve is steep? The slope becomes less steep in direct poportion to the standard deviations away from the mean.

It is very obvious you are the one who knows jack squat about Statistics. I find it hilarious that you are trying to pass of fundamentals of statistics as proof of your superior knowledge. 1 = one, 2 = two..... Go back to school, son.

Hey, what happened last time? You got your arse kicked and ran off to mummy? Hope this time you stay around because I am just getting started. Aren't you a lucky kid? I'm giving you a free education.

Your numbers are BS because they were absent from your initial statement, allowing me to set the bar. I chose not to use the general population as a reference, therefore 100 and 15 are out and you'd actually have to do some number crunching to get the mean and sd Anyhow, you have yet to show me your mastery. You're great at parroting terms though. Try learning what they mean next.

Just getting started? In honour of Missouri, "show me".

P.S. Please don't put one of those posts that make the reader dumber.
P.P.S. How do you go from saying I claim that my IQ is 121 to me claiming that you said it? You have short-term memory problems?

huu76,

This thread was started by someone that wanted to know if there are kinship between Asians and whites. Well I guess we and manwhowalks gave responses that indicate there is. When choosing friends, we all want friends that have similar interest to us. So as you said, if you grew up in area where you are surrounded by whites, than you are more than likely to have similar interest to them. It's also important to have friends that you can count on and trust.

Huu76

QUOTE

Your numbers are BS because they were absent from your initial statement, allowing me to set the bar. I chose not to use the general population as a reference

You choose to ignore reality. Well, what can I expect from someone like you. Your line of reasoning is obtruse, should I expect your self proclaimed IQ to be the mean of "your" sample population and therefore conclude that, indeed, you do have a "steep" bell curve? It is plainly obvious that you do not have a grasp of statistics.

IQ is a relative measure of intelliegence. Your self proclaimed IQ of 121 is ~1.5 standard deviations to the right of the mean which would indicate are proud of yourself for having a greater than average intelligence. This can be supported by your claims of being "in good company". Therefore, if you insist on comparing to a sample population with similiar IQ's, it is true that your position on the bell curve would be "steeper" than on a sample with the general population. However, your position being steeper does not mean superiority, in fact, it indicates you being slightly below or above average.

QUOTE

ou're great at parroting terms though. Try learning what they mean next.

This describes you very well.

QUOTE

therefore 100 and 15 are out and you'd actually have to do some number crunching to get the mean and sd  Anyhow, you have yet to show me your mastery.

1.) It is not feasible to "crunch" numbers which are non-exsistant. Unlike you, I don't pull numbers out of my behind.
2.) There is no doubt I have the capability of crunching the data series of IQ numbers which is in "your" sample population and derive the Standard deviations, mean, etc.
3.) It is painfully obvious that you do not understand statistics, otherwise you would not expect someone to do something that is mathematically impossible, namely crucn non-exsistant numbers.

QUOTE

P.P.S. How do you go from saying I claim that my IQ is 121 to me claiming that you said it? You have short-term memory problems?

I said you are in the lowest 5%, true. I never said your IQ was 121 therefore

QUOTE

My IQ is 121. Since you say I'm in the lowest 5%, that means everyone in my sample pop'n has IQs in the 130+ range

is not true. In other words, If my claim that your intelligence level is in the bottom 5% and your sample population has IQ's in the 130+ range, it would indicate that your IQ would be near 121. Thus, you are claiming that I agree with your assessment of your IQ at 121.

Thank you for answering my question. It is clear that in fact, you do have a reading problem.

Condor,
Any kinships between Asians and Whites is dependent on how open the participants are. If there's no communication than people will just rely purely on stereotypes and their personal observation and then animosity is born.

PLA,
I almost had respect for your first two paragraphs until your last sentence (it was flat out wrong. The steepness and curve are a representation of all occurrences, not just mine). You're courrect though that my steeper curve does not indicate whether I'm superior or whatnot, it just shows that all the samples in the pop'n I chose fall within a close range (i.e. within 15 points). A range of say, 35 points, would be flatter. I don't ignore reality, I just play within the the "stated" rules. You don't state that you're using the general population, then I'll use normal distribution with "my" sample pop'n to prove my case. Like they say, you can use stats to pretty well prove anything (you just need the right context).

The rest of your post is just going around in circles. Not feasible to crunch non-existent numbers. That's news to the rest of the world. How do you think they get their numbers to begin with (did they just make up your 100 and 15?)? They take samples and apply the results onto the rest of the pop'n with as little error as possible. I could make up 10 numbers to make you a bell curve that fits my example. It real terms that's cheating, but if you take a sample from 1000 engineers, I'll wager you'll come up with a simliar curve with a simliar mean as mine, and it would still be normally distributed (again with the context thing).

I'll share with you a real world example so you know the difference between text book knowledge and experience. When I was with Rockwell automation, they were experimenting with a new way to manufacture manual seat adjusters for BMW. Basically they were doing stress/durability tests on formed components that didn't need to be welded or bolted together, instead they just fit together like a jigsaw-puzzle. Anyway, we just took random samples that they rammed out and ran them through cycle tests, measuringing how many cycles before the component began to slip or lose their form, and when the component actually failed (cracks or it couldn't complete a full cycle). From their, they derived the s.d. mean etc. and worked out whether the new component was likely to meet BMW's indicated requirements. My term was over before they finished but It turns out they weren't very durable. fyi, the plant I was at now makes seat adjusters for GM, which I hope don't use those parts LOL.

You should know that stats is a guessing game and you never use someone else's data unless you absolutely have to, otherwise your results will only be as accurate as the last person who did them.

QUOTE

My IQ is 121

= me

QUOTE

You claim that your IQ is 121

= you

QUOTE

Hey kid, I never said your IQ was 121

= you
How was this confusing for you? Looks pretty straight forward to me.

Anyhow, if you want to add more points (minus the errors), go ahead. I saw a glimmer of hope there.

Or if you'd rather get back to the real topic, that'd probably be better since I imagine we're boring quite a few readers.

Huu76

I re-read your statement again, and this time I understood that your claims are based on your sample population. It "may" be true if you say that. However it is also true that you did not collect a sample population and therefore it can be concluded you did, in fact, make up your figures. Even if you collected a sample population it is a bit pointless don't you think? My figures are generally accepted standards to guage IQ, if everyone uses their own imaginary data series, they can make themselves appear smarter or dumber than their sample population. By introducing self selected numbers, it defeats the purposes of statistical analysis. If you do this in real life, a lot of problems can be expected to occur and you will most likley get fired for fraud.

Besides, your critisims on not using exact figures cuts both ways. You simply assumed that my remarks were using your sample population without asking for clarification.

Regarding your challange of me cruching some numbers. I cannot do so without a data series. With a data series it is extremely easy to find the mean and S.D. I can probably do that within 2 minutes on excel. It does not take an expert in statistics to do so.

PLA and focker...two of a kind. i wonder if its REALLY the same idiot posting that garbage.

huu mentally deficient? that's a laugh. both he and condor show more decency, responsibility, brains and open mindedness than focker/pla/whatever could ever dream of exhibiting.

condor...man, i didnt live your life, so i can't judge you on your possible anger toward asian women. i DO know that i've known some black women who think they're too good for black men (and, yes, there are some brothers who think they are too good for sisters), but complain about not being able to find a 'good black man'...or a 'good man' of any color. i don't hate them...i feel sorry for them, as individuals, not as a group.

as far as asian women, huu, i can say i've known my share (and dated one from a fairly off beat country called kazakstan), and i've found that asian women are no different than any other women. each race of women (and men) have their jerks, each has their angels. and each has, predominantly, people who have a combination of both traits, that most people can live with.

QUOTE

This guy has a tendency to imagine things, probably some psychological imbalance or defect. There sure are alot of weirdos out there.

Huu,

From what you just said, the term 'delusions of grandeur' or more professionally 'delusional disorder' came to mind. In this case, it may be suspected as the 'grandiose type.'

QUOTE

PLA and focker...two of a kind. i wonder if its REALLY the same idiot posting that garbage.

I'm actually starting to feel ya there, pal! I never have seen them duke it out with that other factual poster, manwhowalks.

So what if one poster accuses another for having anti-AF tendencies toward dating? Big deal! It's his dumb life as if you've lived it for him! In fact, that poster should be more happier and quit their whining since it's one less in the whole competition. If they're really complaining how hard it is being this and that, then rewind the clock by several decades. Then, let's compare notes with the old timers.

lilzalan

QUOTE

From what you just said, the term 'delusions of grandeur' or more professionally 'delusional disorder' came to mind. In this case, it may be suspected as the 'grandiose type.'

Care to elaborate? Delusional Disorder eh? Well, I would certainly like to hear your reasoning.




Gillette:

Your a black guy right? As in African American? As in Non-Asian? Are you sure you are on the right board?

PLA, I'd appreciate it if you kept your bitterness and your banter to yourself, I meant this thread as a discussion and a response to the inquiry I had. Understanding IQ bell curves and standard deviations is not a real showy example of intelligence, as it is taught in most 1000 level Psychology courses. Although I will say that I am not a college student, (16 and with my girlfriend for a year now) I am old enough to recognize shallow hate and bitterness when I see it.

Please do not post in this thread any longer.

Crimson Blade

1000 level courses eh? I wonder what kind of college that is.

#1.) It's not me who is making a big deal out of S.D. and IQ's, it's Huu. Apprently, the self proclaimed economics expert / quasi engineering student, thinks that knowing fundamental statistics is the shiz niz.

#2.) Shallow hate? Hate who? I don't hate white people. I was pointing out the idiot Asian people (Huu, Condor) who talk
down on AF's for "selling out" when they and their family members do it.

Are you ok kid? I just want to make sure you are reading this thread correctly. I am not the one who is attacking AF's (YOUR GF) for dating white people. Condor and his posse are. I was mocking them for being hypocrites.

Don't be so narcassistic, no one cares that you are dating an AF.

Capiche?

All the Asian Geeks with the IQ, BELL CURVE and HOV get off this post and post somewhere else.
Let's stick with the question.
Crimson,
Its the same look Asian men get when he's dating a WF.
It's all depends on how attractive your female is. If she's a dog, WE DON'T CARE.
However, if she's a knockout, we're just jealous that we're not dating her.
If Asian men are giving you "that look", feel good about it, that means she's good.
Yes, its that simple.
Back to basics, race has nothing to do with it.

GTX,
That's mighty white of you to be stereotyping people like that, especially your own kind. Conversations would be a lot shorter if people stopped pretending to be who they're not.

PLA,
Self proclaimed is right. You don't see me shooting my mouth off about sociology or other BS topics? I know exactly what I'm talking about when it involves my areas of study and work/experience. Regarding ir-dating, there's a difference in the standards that AF and AM use; ours are much higher (AM/WF tend to be balanced) and we don't blindly like/hate this or that.

Crimson,
It's just my opinion but you and your GF are too young to know what you want and/or where you're going. Life is a long trip and you're just at the beginning.

Condor,
I think you're right on most of what you say,but there are a few exceptions. I personally believe that when an asian male or female date other races,they try to disassociate from their culture so as seem more intertesting to their respective non-asian mates. They seem to ignore the fact that eventhough they are dating whites or blacks or latinos, they somehow have to blend in into those cultures to feel "accepted".
It is sad that they feel that way. my oldest daughter(we live in New York) is married,and have a child with a nice latino man(he looks white european). At first i was concerned about my daughter's happiness but after a few years she is very happily married,and she and her husband love each other very much. I am happy for them,and so is my wife, a few cultural frictions surface here and there sometimes,but most of the time we all get along fine,and have never had any major disappointments. I even traveled to his country of origin El Salvador,and he traveled to Korea,and everybody is happy with each other. my Korean neighbors get the impression that my daughter married a white man and sometimes show their hypocritical disdain. i say to myself what a bunch of ignorants,but you cna't change the world. just do your best and try to get alonfg with everybody.

I sometimes joke to my wife that I married her to "even up the score" between the AF/WM & AM/WF playing field. (Damn the garage was cold that night). But even she sees the disparity. My Caucasian M friend from elementary-school just recently dated and took up housekeeping with a half-Japanese-Canadian F (they're getting married sometime next year) but well...it doesn't really matter. It's all a matter of if you find the "right" person, no matter what her race is.

Crimsonblade,

Rather then focusing on how unfailry you have been treated because you are white, why not try to understand the situation. To complain about such things in this time and moment in history is very immature.

It can be compared to a men complaining in the 18th century why women would label him as a opressor. With hind sight, if you read any articles written by a man in the 18th century with such complaints wouldn't you consider him a immature and detestable charachter? I personally would.

Best you can do as member of the white male group in this moment of history is to not be part of the problem, and certainly not complain about any realization/awareness from people who are trying to fix it.

Hi Crimsonblade
I understand you have no problem with WM dating AF. But here's a interesting question. If you have a sister going out with a AM, how would you feel? Most WM will be against it, eventhough he (the WM) is dating an AF himself. Many WM claims that they have no problem with Asian/White relationship until they see a AM/WF. If you do have something against AM/WF dating each other, then you are just as bad as AM hating you because you are dating a AF. How many AM friends do you have? Most WM loves AF but treat AM like trash. But if you one of the few who respects AM and have no problem seeing AM/WF dating, then I agree with all of your point.

I beginning to question comments like this. I am in my 50s, a WF, with more than enough WM relatives and friends. The only time I have witnessed this, the WM was one who treated ALL others like trash, not just AM. Perhaps you just were not present when they treated other WM equally bad when they tried to date their sisters. Or you didn't see it because its more disguised when they are dealing with their own race.

Conceding that each of us has a slightly limited perspective, this seems like erroneous stereotyping. Though I have endured the reaction of WM (all whites actually) when dating black and hispanic men, I have never encountered it negativity from dating AM. Perhaps I have been lucky, but I certainly have not been oblivious.

However, having taken that stance I will agree that there is a certain despicable type of WM who is attracted to AW, but otherwise has no respect all for AM. The particular type I am referring to has little or no respect for AW either, or any other women. The only difference is that he attracted to a mistaken image of AW as subservient and passive, that he has learned not to expect from WW. Fortunately this offensive sort is a small minority among a mojority of WM who indeed just find AW physically attractive.