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POLL & COMMENTS
CHINESE FEMALE/ VIETNAMESE MALE RELATIONSHIPS
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 05:24:02 PM
to reflect the 100 most recent valid responses.)
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
I just got back from China, and I can honestly say that Chinese women from the North are beautiful, lovely and charming.
The traveller
Tuesday, June 18, 2002 at 22:38:16 (PDT)
[Yeah, listen, guys, this is all fascinating stuff, really, but can we get back to the topic at hand? We're moving a copy of these historical digressions to the Comparing Asian Nationalities page. Maybe the guys there will appreciate a bit of the long view. --Ed]
Han Emperor,
The Sui and Tang royal lines had once served Turkic kings (Northern Zhou) and they had married the women of their tribes (Dugu, or Dugor). This group was different from the Wei Toba (Tabgatch). Even the Toba Wei (Tabgatch) were more likely Turkic than Tungusic based on the pronunciation of their tribal name.
Even the Xianbei were probably more Mongol originated than they were Tungus based on the deciphering of their language. They were probably closest to the Khitan, another Mongol race that later attacked northern China.
After the fall of the Han Dynasty, many Huns had settled China and became Chinese themselves. They were unlike the Mongols and Manchus, in that they adopted Chinese names, wore Chinese clothing and promoted racial intermarriage between rulers and the conquered. In fact, they hastened the process to the point where there was no difference after a generation. Of course, there were some who held out and rode their ponies back into the Gobi desert and grasslands in protest.
But, if we check our history, the Turkic rulers Sinicized themselves more than what the later Mongols and Manchus never did. Still, our history does not recognize the Turkic kingdoms as legitimate even though they had existed in northern China after the fall of the Han Dynasty imperial order.
The Tang ruling family claimed descent from the famed Han Dynasty general (Li Kuang-li) as well as the Daoist sage (Lao-tzu). On their maternal side, many Turkic women and princesses had entered their blood.
The Tang had absorbed at least 1 million Tu-chueh (Turk) tribes into China proper after victorious battles.
Even Li Shimin's 2nd son continued to speak in a Turkish dialect and lived in a yurt (tent) outside the capital walls of Chang'an.
Tungusic blood entered China later during the latter Song (Jurchen Jin). Later, they came to conquer all of China once more under a new tribal name (Manchu). They were the last emperors of China.
Hsiung-nu
Thursday, May 02, 2002 at 23:14:17 (PDT)
Han emperor,
If you do DNA tests on Hui people, you find that they cluster closest to Han more than any other races. Most studies don't even differentiate them from other northwest Han. All northwest Han people (Muslim and non-Muslim) have some amount of Caucasoid genes in them since even before the formation of the Chinese people and culture. Many parts of northwest China did not originally belong to Han people. Gansu was originally an Iranian (Yueh-chih) territory before they were driven out.
Many Hui fabricate their origins in the past, because of their hatred for the Qing Dynasty and other Chinese who oppressed them.
So, they identified with Islam first and foremost. And, by claiming foreign ancestry was the best way to forever break off this link.
Islam spread to China during the Tang. The emperor Li Shimin praised their religion (often comparing it to Confucianism) and allowed them to build mosques and proselytize. He even likened this Islam religion as "a people's religion."
Islam did not really take a firmer hold until the Mongol Yuan Dynasty. Most of the Muslim soldiers brought into China at this time were not Arabs or Persians. They were Central Asian Turkic tribes. Racially, they were both Mongoloid and Caucasoid (like the modern Uigurs and Uzbeks), and did not really differ so much from the average Han Chinese.
One Turkic general who served Kublai Khan, Sayyid Ajjal Shams helped the Mongols take over modern Yunnan province from the Miao tribes. Among Sayyid Ajjal Shams armies were Turkic horsemen as well as Chinese foot soldiers. The Chinese troops outnumbered both the Turkic and Mongol troops. So, that is why Yunnan today is mostly still Han Chinese in language and race. But, there still exists a large Hui population there (called Pathay). They are the descendants of these Turkish, Mongol and Chinese troops who served Sayyid Ajjal Shams.
In fact, you are right that Kublai Khan had employed many Muslim (ie Turkic) mercenary generals and soldiers. But, when they recruited Chinese troops into their armies, they usually converted them to Islam.
There still is a tribe of Mongols in Gansu province (the Dongxiang) who are Muslim. They had served the Yuan under Turkic Moslem generals. But, a great portion of them have Chinese surnames and family genealogy books. It is for sure that some of them are descended from Chinese conscripts.
The first emperor of the Ming had great affiliations with Muslims. Some of his closest allies and generals were Muslims (Turkic and Hui) who also resented the Mongol Yuan rule. He himself married a Muslim Central Asian princess. Many assumed that he had converted to Islam, because only a Muslim man may wed a Muslim woman.
The Hui began with an Arab and Persian nucleus in the Tang and Song Dynasties. Mostly merchants settling in China. Then, there was the larger influx during the Yuan of mostly Turkic Muslims, although there were some Persians too (astronomers, siege engineers). They had not only intermarried with Han, but it is likely that they also converted a great number of them too as they were elites at the time.
The Hui also had the custom of adopting Han male babies into their families, when they are childless or have enough money to do so. This is especially true in northwest China hinterlands.
During the Qing, there were a lot of jihads by the Hui and Uigurs against Manchu misrule. The Manchus used Han soldiers to quell down these Muslim revolts. Many Hui men were killed and the Hui women were violated. Their blood became more Han and not the other way as you described it.
Qing Zhen Jiao
Thursday, May 02, 2002 at 23:00:25 (PDT)
to Han emperor
RE: "...both the Chinese and Vietnamese women are beautiful. Actually, I think they are the most beautiful women in the world. ;)"
Thank you! Likewise, I'm sure.
MLK
Thursday, May 02, 2002 at 10:07:24 (PDT)
Han emperor:
Hey I like your name.
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ZiJinCheng Angelique
Wednesday, May 01, 2002 at 19:26:10 (PDT)
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