Comparing Asian Nationalities | Asian American Poll

COMPARING ASIAN NATIONALITIES
(Updated Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 05:20:52 PM to reflect the 100 most recent valid responses.)

CONTACT US | ADVERTISING INFO

© 1996-2013 Asian Media Group Inc
No part of the contents of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission.

WHAT YOU SAY

[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]

it's just language:
["I don't think it was because of Chinese linguistic influences and borrowings that caused the Japanese to drop the "R" from their native words."]
Of course, it is a principle of linguistics that a language very rarely gets outside influence on its words, which is why loanwords get distorted beyond recognition.
The reason for Japanese eventually developing "ru->u" is cuz "ou" and "uu" is easier on the tongue and ear than "oru" and "uru" ... the whole Altaic vowel/consonant harmony thing. The trend towards the easier pronunciation would likely have taken hold among Chinese loanwords first, but then it spread to all unrelated words, even native words, with a similar pronunciation.

["If you know that in Mandarin and even in Cantonese, there are quite a few words that end in "R."]
Cantonese does NOT have an "R" sound, or any syllable-final affricatives at all. All Cantonese syllable-endings are either vowels or stops (p as in the number 10, m as in 3, t as in 8, n as in "blue," k as in "white," ng as "red"). The only time you'll see an R is in romanization. And unlike Mandarin romanization which was moderately scientifically designed, most romanizations of Cantonese are done on the fly in the middle of english sentences and don't really reflect the underlying phonology.
T.H. Lien Monday, May 27, 2002 at 03:34:02 (PDT)

arabian women tend to have thick eyebrows, large eyes some have crooked nose. they're beautiful but i don't think they possess crisp and delicate features. Scandinavian, Japanese and korean women seem to possess very fine and delicate features.
yuenli Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 22:47:33 (PDT)

To An Nam Guy;

Of course there were many intermarriages with the chinese people, BUT it was obviously not very common within the thousand years of rule. Or else:

1. The vietnamese language would have disappeared because the chinese outlawed the language, but it survived anyways.

2. The vietnamese population was still very much viet. How? Well, even after a thousand years of occupation they still wanted independence, remembering the loyalty they had to their old state.

3. Why would their be a superstition in Hanoi about marrying chinese people as being bad luck? It's not only in hanoi, but in Quang Ngai, Nha Trang, Dong Son and many other towns (some villages are of the central, but i heard the same in those areas).

4. Obviously not enough mixing to make the population forget about thier old people, even calling themselves viet after years of attempted assimilation.

5. Not enough mixing to destroy the pride and to not fight the chinese.

Cham land was lost close to a thousand years ago, not a few centuries. The malay influence is still evident dispite the cham influence or not. But definitely there is still alot of Cham influence, there were A LOT of Cham slaves at that time, many villages live side by side with the Cham.

"Let’s look at modern history of Vietnam, if people in the north hate Chinese the most why they has been China ally in the Vietnam War, but the South was not. The fact is the north is Chinese influenced more than the south. China ruled northern Vietnam not southern Vietnam. In fact, some villages in North Vietnam are all 100% ethnic Chinese."

Did you know that Ho Chi Minh preferred to have the american on his side? He asked them for help, but they refused, so he turned to communism. This was before he formed his communist party of course. If you go to north vietnam they have more of a distinct vietnamese flavored culture then do the south (IF you've been there). The reason for the FULL ethnic chinese villages is logical of course. They didn't mix with the vietnamese population well.

By migrating even MORE south i meant the migration of the vietnamese people from the Guangdong area (ancient vietnam, or Nam Viet) to where north vietnam is today. They even moved! When usually you would stay.
Hafti Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 20:37:58 (PDT)

Quote from a research project off of a friend:
..................................
In the 13th century after the Trans` usurped the Ly Dynasty`s throne in Vietnam, Prince Ly Long Tuong fled the country by boat and arrived in Korea. He had twice commanded troops to fight the Mongolian invaders away from Korea in 1232 and 1252, winning the war for his second homeland. To commemorate his deeds, the koreans built a life-size statue of him on a horse. He had always fought on a white horse during the war so his nickname became the "General on the White Horse" or in viet "Bach Ma Tuong Cong". His statue still resides in one of the main parks in Seoul, South Korea. They even named the place where he was living the Ly Hoa San Farmhouse. (It should also be noted that his relatives became the king of Korea four times and it is RUMOURED that the first president of South Korea Syngman Rhee or *Viet name: Ly Thua Van* 1948-1960 had viet blood in him from ancestor Prince Ly Long Tuong).
....................................

Can someone expand on this or tell me if it's valid or not? I'm interested because i have NEVER heard about a vietnamese person living in korea a thousand years back.
Hafti Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 20:25:07 (PDT)

To halfti

During the war relations between the south vietnamese and ethnic chinese weren't very beautiful either.

One of the Vietnamese Presidents back in the day had forced all the ETHNIC CHINESE living in VietNam to change their surnames to Viet last names? For Example: Huynh, Tan, Lam, Luong, Le, Cao, Tran, Ha, Tong and even Nguyen...etc (You search it up, i first heard this from my friend who's ethnic chinese but has a vietnamese last name, i thought, "if he's chinese shouldn't his name be like Wong, or Chan or some other chinese name" but he said that his family was forced to change their names along time ago, and it's very hard to find this stuff because i saw it a while back and forgot the presidents name, also it's a small detail in historical perspective so i would guess it's not recorded as well, BUT it is there, about two years ago i found a site describing this and how the vietnamese treated the chinese badly and stuff, i thought "since when did the vietnamese treat the chinese bad?" but then i read it then i knew, it's around)

Also Ho Chi Minh's relation with the chinese was really ackward, and it was very suspicious of him to get support form the chinese and russians, but with his current influence (getting independence for vietnam against the french, they didn't care as much as they would have in the beginning, but then it was looked at stronger after the 1979 attack) Also Ho Chi Minh's second choice was actually Russia and China, he actually looked for other nations help first. Back in the 1930-1940`s before Ho Chi Minh developed his communist party, he had asked for support from the United States to create a DEMOCRATIC republic but the US president was not interested because he did not want to sour relations with France. Therefore leading Ho Chi Minh with no other choice but to sought relations with the next strongest largest nation: Communist Russia. (This is recorded very well i suppose one search and you'll see it right away)

I got this stuff from sites with historical vietnamese information. You can find it pretty easily if you put the effort into it (max half an hour a search).
General Viet Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 20:22:46 (PDT)

Well, An Nam Guy, Halfti isn't very far off to the truth. The northern people DID hate the chinese, even after being allied with the chinese A LOT of suspicion WAS fallen on the chinese. Ho Chi Minh was the only historical figure that relied on the chinese for independence, before that it was more of a fight against the chinese thing. In 1979, the chinese attacked vietnam. Suspicions were right. Sure help us for a moment then attack us another.

The northern vietnamese DO hold a HUGE grudge against the chinese, you can go there yourself. I've been there and i know, in the restaurants in the bars, every single joke is almost comprised of insulting the chinese up north. The only reason why these villages stayed 100% ethnic vietnamese is because they can't mix because the vietnamese didn't really accept, i know there are exceptions but for the most part that is true, how often is there that you can find a group of full chinese ethnic in a country where they are accepted and mixing is no problem? None, thus there is a problem with mixing somewhere.

Just to tell you, the north was part of china, but their was a reason why they declared independent from china. One they had a big grudge, they were treated badly, and very attention was even paid to that region in attempt to build up it's economics (talking about a thousand years back). Two, if they had so much chinese blood they would have considered themselves chinese wouldn't have they? They wouldn't have smacked their own hand especially if it's the hand that nourishes the belly and mind. Obviouly the thousand years of assimilation failed. They didn't fall completely to the rule of china.

My family is mainly in Hanoi, and i have visited it. YES there is more people who hate chinese then love. Even though Ho Chi Minh seeked help, he DID also seek Russian help, did that mean the viets love them too? No, just that the leader seek help in that area. Their were HUGE reasons why the chinese didn't send any troops in.

The south is A LOT more accepting to the chinese. A LOT more. More people from the south have chinese blood then the north do by far. Yes the vietnamese DID destroy the Champa empire (the cham attacked first), but the Cham were still around, many were turned into slaves. The massacres in vietnam in the 70's were due to the vietnamese invasion of cambodia, the assimilation and mixing with the Cham and khmers before that happened centuries before that, they co-existed in the same villages in many areas (mostly south and southwest). But many villages comprise ONLY of Cham or khmer.

Yes the cambodians DO hate the chinese for that time, but it was mainly due to resent events. Before that many, many things could have happened.

In the one thousand years of assimilation, two hundred of those years the vietnamese were governed by a chinese general who killed all loyal to the chinese, later setting up a newly found vietnamese nation once again. Then again, the Trang Sisters who got it back for another 5 years, and many many other years. The Trang Sisters (i think it's them) set up a national pride that was so strong that it lead many to win in the war for independence a thousand years later.

If you read these history books, in the thousand years of chinese control there is atleast 10 wars attempted for independence. A LOT of support by the ethnic vietnamese at that time but failed miserably because even though so much helped, they were still outnumbered. Even after the chinese started to treat the vietnamese good, the vietnamese old countrymen in favor of independence had TREMENDOUS support by the population, that's how Ngo Quyenh won his wars. Through STRONG loyalty. The vietnamese language was OUTLAWED during the thousand years of chinese rule, but at that time even the people MOST close to the chinese learnt vietnamese in underground schools. Boys were castrated, men killed, and women raped during the Ming rule. STRONG resistant was imposed even though the culture was assimilated very little love was there for the chinese at that time. To become strong and powerful at that time you needed to be friends with the chinese, very CLOSE, but even then the highest ranking vietnamese general working for the chinese learnt the ancient vietnamese language in underground schools lead by even stronger opposers of chinese rule (possibly taught the generations to hate the chinese which brought strong opposition to chinese rule, later bringing the success to independence).
General Viet Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 19:50:04 (PDT)

Yellow Peril
BRAVO! I'm with you all the way brotha!
Huns were no worse than the Romans. Mongols were no worst than the Normans.
It all depends on who is writing the history book. I actully met a Hungarian girl with blonde hair and blue eyes last year and she told me Attila the Hun is a hero in Hungary.
Real History Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 17:09:55 (PDT)

An Nam guy:

i heard in a recent statistic only
300 000 chinese live in north vietnam or so while in the south there are about 1 million. not counting the ethnnic minority cos some of them are of chinese descent(jay, nung people...).
gk Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 13:54:13 (PDT)

Coreans and Vietnamese share many striking similarities.

Both are fiercely independent and sensitive people.

They are hot-headed and love hot chili foods. Their foods are not as oily as the Chinese.

Both have beautiful women.

They have even met each other on the battlefields. During the Vietnam War, South Koreans served alongside Americans. And, during the Hideyoshi Japanese invasion of Korea, there were perhaps a few Vietnamese tribal mercenaries serving alongside the Ming Chinese in Korea. (One Korean boy I met in San Diego looked like he was from Vietnam or something).

Both Coreans and Vietnamese in their long past histories have repelled countless invasions and colonization by the Middle Kingdom (China) as well as other enemies. The dense and humid jungles of Vietnam and the cold frost-bitten tundras of Manchuria drove away even the best of the Tang forces.

Yet, both Coreans and Vietnamese are undeniably heavily influenced by the Chinese culture, arts and philosophy.

But, there is only one contrast. The Coreans remained Sinocentric all throughout. The Vietnamese have a love-hate relation with the Chinese.

Yet, both are not Chinese. Both have retained their separate distinct identities despite the Sinicization of all facets of their cultures.

The Coreans, Vietnamese and Japanese are part of the Chinese cultural orbit, but they are not part of the Chinese nation. They successfully resisted or repelled Chinese attempts to turn them into Chinese provinces as happened to countless tribes in the past who either fell to Chinese nationhood by military or cultural conquest.
where the similarities lay Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 13:47:47 (PDT)

An Nam guy:

hm...during the sino-vietnam war in 1979 a lot of chinese were kicked out of Vietnam. yes vietnam has been china's ally in the war cos they're both communist but vietnam is more prop-Russian.

about 50-70 years ago, emperor Bao Dai conducted a statistic and it turned out only 30 % of vietnamese are part chinese. the chinese blood was incorporated for 300 years or so. even though china has ruled vietnam for more than 1000 years.
wonbin Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 13:45:45 (PDT)

There are some Thai people I met who look very Korean and Japanese (sharp slit eyes). Those girls from Thailand are very pretty.

I assume they are from northern Thailand. Many northern Thais and northern Burmese look Tibetan.

pad thai Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 13:31:35 (PDT)

An Nam guy:

A statistic made by vietnamese emperor Bao Dai about 50-70 years ago show that only 30 % of the vietnamese are part chinese. the blood was incorporated about during 330 years. the statistics seemed to be very accurate . why do u have to insist a lot of vietnamese are mixed w/ chinese. i find it ironic there are some individuals who like to be chinese so much.

btw i don't think a lot of them are part khmer anyway. khmer and vietnamese always seem to be in great conflict. the vietnamese destroyed a part of thier kingdom Funan and killed a lot of people which set hatred among cambodians. Cambodians hate vietnamese. in gneral, vietnamese seem to be a homogenous people i think.
kg Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 13:28:58 (PDT)

An Nam Guy,

What are the status of the Hmong people in Vietnam today? I heard that they have relatives on both sides of the Vietnam/China border. When the Chinese and Vietamese clash, it is these people who suffer the most.

The Hmong people are hunter/gatherers. From their features, they look even more closer to the southern Chinese than Vietnamese.

Are these Hmong descendants of the Yueh tribes?

What do the Vietnamese think of the modern Chinese provinces of Guangxi, Guangdong and Fujian? Do they still claim it as their own as the Mexicans still claim California and Texas as their own?
tri Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 13:28:20 (PDT)

Cantonese may not be the official language of China.

Languages change due to time and geographic separation. I am sure that thousands of years from now, the people of the USA, England, Canada and Australia would not be able to understand each other as they do now. It is the same thing that happened to Cantonese, Mandarin, Hakka, Chiu-zhou, Hokkien, and other Chinese dialects. The separation of the south from north enabled the Cantonese to maintain Tang Dynasty speech, while the rest of China developed their own dialects.

But, if we took a time machine and returned to Tang Dynasty times, probably the Chinese of those times would have less difficulty conversing with Cantonese speakers than they would with Mandarin. Imagine if the Tang Emperor Li Shimin were to return to modern-day China and ask for directions back to his palace grounds in Chang'an (now Xian)? He would probably follow a Cantonese-speaking guide, rather than a local Mandarin one.

The proof is that even if you look at the loan words of Korean and Japanese, the pronunciations are closer to Cantonese than it is to Mandarin.

Take for example the word "yes." In Cantonese, we pronounce it "hai" the same as in Japanese. The Japanese admired the Tang Dynasty so much, that they adopted many Tang Chinese words into daily usage. But, Mandarin speakers have an all together different word for "yes." Yes in Mandarin is "sher."

I have friends from Beijing who have difficulty reading or understanding Tang Dynasty poems. In Cantonese schools of Guangdong and Hong Kong, Tang poems are daily facets of life. We easily feel the meanings and emotions in it. That is why we Cantonese call ourselves the "Tang people."

Yes, Tang language (Cantonese) is the Mandarin of the Americas.
Cantonese was once spoken in all of China Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 13:13:00 (PDT)

Yellow peril,

True, Western academics tend to paint their barbarians in a better light than Asian barbarians. The Vikings were just as blood-thristy as the Mongols and Huns. When the Vikings plundered the coasts of Northern Europe, they laid waste to everything. They kidnapped women and children and made them human sacrifices to their gods. Vikings raids were without warning and they attacked primarily monastaries and defenseless villages. At least Ghengis Khan gave a ultimatum to his victims to surrender before he attacked. It is also known that Ghengis Khan treated his foreign subjects well under his empire, except for the southern Song Chinese who were treated like dirt because they subbornly resisted Mongol rule until his grandson, Kublai, finally conquered them. Anyways, I think western barbarians were just as or more savage than Asian barbarians.
Miyagi Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 13:01:18 (PDT)

olmy,

You are right. I have seen Mongols in China. Some Koreans do look like them. But, then again there are some Koreans who also look northern Han and even some look Cantonese in their facial appearance. I find this among the Koreans in the USA, as I have never been to Korea itself. Now, I heard that the Koreans in the USA are mostly descended from North Koreans who fled south during and after the Korean War. If I am not mistaken, the North Koreans have some amount of Chinese admixture. So, even the Koguryo are not as purely Mongol/Manchu as some think. The ancient Koguryo Koreans had to repel the most invasions by neighboring Chinese dynasties (from the Han to Tang). It is no cause for wonder that many Chinese did trickle into Korea by and through Koguryo. Some made their way by sea to Paekche too. About Shilla being Chinese originated. The story goes that one of their kings may have claimed descent from the Kija line (who themselves claimed descent from Chinese refugees after the fall of Shang state).

Koreans are not as purely Tunguzic as some think. If you have been to Mongolia and Siberia and then to Korea, you will see slight differences. The Koreans are less Mongoloid than the Mongol/Tunguz, while the Han Chinese (northern, and even more southern) are even less Mongoloid than Koreans. It shifts the more south and west you go. The most south, you will encounter Malay tribes with semi-Negrito features. The most west, you will encounter Uigurs with semi-Caucasoid features.
Classical Mongoloids Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 13:01:07 (PDT)

One reason why the Mongol Empire fell as quickly as it was founded was because it was simply too huge and diverse.

One major difference between Mongols and Romans: the Mongols were brutal due to their nomadic/survivalist environment. Once they ruled over distant foreign lands, they assimilated into the cultures and adopted pacifist ways. One reason why the native Ming Chinese were able to drive them out was because the grandchildren of those Mongol warriors were said to lack the will or courage to fight back. They became even more soft than the native Han Chinese.

But, the Romans were brutal not because of necessity but for simple pleasure. Just look at all the gladiator tournaments they had! Slaves were not only put to use for labor, but for entertainment. They would be thrown into an arena or forum where they had to face off a lion, with nothing but a small knife or even no weapons. The modern Spanish bullfight is a remnant of this. Lions no longer exist in Europe so they used bulls!
gladiator Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 12:49:06 (PDT)

One thing I notice about language is that the more closer you are to a group, the more you hate each other.

Just look at Semitic. The Arabs and Jews are each others worst enemies as well as closest genetic and linguistic relatives.

Look at Sino-Tibetan. The Tibetans would never imagine nor want to think of the Han Chinese as their genetic/linguistic relatives.

Look at Korean/Japanese. The list goes on and on.
Close neighbors fight all the time Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 12:40:48 (PDT)

T.H Lien,

Thai and Laotian and Hmong (spoken in the northern mountains of Vietnam) are also part of Sino-Tibetan language grouping. I don't know if Thai/Laotian/Hmong is closer to the Han Chinese dialects or if Burmese is? But, I know that Burmese is closest to Tibetan and Bhutanese.

The native language of Vietnam itself was once widely believed to be a Sino-Tibetan language and many thought that it shared similarities with the Cantonese dialect (because of the high number of tones). It turns out that Vietnamese is an independent language or more closer to the Mon-Khmer (Cambodians) than it is to Sino-Tibetan.

Do any of you know that in Siberia there is a language group called the Kets who only number in the few hundreds? They are Sino-Tibetan related, rather than Turko-Mongol as once thought. And, there is a tribe in northern Pakistan (Burushaski) that is also a Sino-Tibetan remnant. But, one group that amazes scholars is the Dene tribe in the American southwest. Despite large geographical separation, this group is more related to Sino-Tibetan than it is to the surrounding Navajo languages.

I wouldn't be amazed, because if you read the works of Chinese-American scholar, Michael Xu, you will find ample evidence that the Olmecs of Mexico were directly or indirectly influenced by a remnant group from China who fled after the fall of the Shang state in the 1200 BCs. They were carried over to the Americas by the Kurrishio currents in the Pacific. If you look at their pottery designs, writings, motifs and wide use of jade, you might think you were examining pre-Qin artifacts in China.
Sino-Tibetan Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 12:38:11 (PDT)

About the classification of Asian languages:

For one thing the relationship between Korean and Japanese has not been firmly established to having direct, clear links. The similarities between Korean and Japanese is not as close to that even between English and Hindi, or Chinese and Burman. There also exists many remnant features of the Jomon language (thought to be proto-Malayan) in modern Japanese. Linguistic scholars in the West are now inclined to list them (Korean and Japanese) as separate languages.

The relationship of Korean and Japanese to Altaic languages:

This has been the most controversial. Japanese is on the peripheral surrounding this language group (Altaic). Even Korean has been debated. Although Korean shares many structural features with Manchu, Mongol and Turkish, it lacks the direct vocab features. Western linguists today no longer officially list Korean with the Altaic branch of languages, although some still continue to do so depending on what evidence you are inclined to believe.

The Uralic languages (Finnish, Hungarian, Estonian, Lapp, Komi, other Finno-Ugric tribes in Siberia) has now been said to be an independent lingua group from the once widely superlingua group (Ural-Altaic). Its features that it shares with Altaic (esp. Turkic) are said to be simply borrowings due to long contact and geographic proximity. The separation of Korean from Altaic can be compared to this separation of Uralic from Altaic. All could have been simply borrowings from one another, or that they have separated from each other far too long to be distantly distinct languages by now, although of all world language groups, they come closest to sharing certain features. It's just that they lack the basic components to classify them as coming from the same root source.

In the past, people did not have the same methods as we do now in the study of languages.
world languages Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 12:27:24 (PDT)

NY Homeboy,

In Cantonese Chinese, mom and pop is informally "ah-ma" and "ah-ba".

mutt Sunday, May 26, 2002 at 12:11:14 (PDT)

NEWEST COMMENTS | EARLIER COMMENTS