Comparing Asian Nationalities | Asian American Poll

COMPARING ASIAN NATIONALITIES
(Updated Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 05:20:46 PM to reflect the 100 most recent valid responses.)

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WHAT YOU SAY

[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]

To all of the Hakkas and T.H. Lien,

I agree with Chinatown on the issue of Hakka superiority over the other Chinese. Hakkas need to really re-evaluate themselves and look into the facts regarding their past contributions in China.

The Hakkas have never been this overly successful group of Chinese. In fact, other southern Chinese such as the Cantonese, Hoklo and Teochiu have made more of an impact on Southern China than the Hakkas. They have surpassed the Hakkas in many endeavors and in affluence.

People often compare the Hakkas with the Jews as I have seen on this board and in other places. This is a bad comparision because

1. Most Hakkas were industrious peasants. Other Chinese such as the Cantonese and Teochiu were the ones who practiced commerce and money matters. Therefore, these groups are more similar to the Jews.

2. Hakkas never emphasized on education. Many Hakkas come from poorly educated backgrounds, this is the main reason why they have not progressed like the other Chinese.

3. Hakkas are not adaptable like the Jews and the other Chinese. Their constant stubborness and pride about their identity prevents them from contributing to society. Many modern day Hakkas have either assimilated into other Chinese cultures such as the Cantonese or forgotten their Hakka identity.

4. Hakkas overall are good natured. Unlike other Chinese groups who are often cunning and dishonest, fitting the mode as merchants, most Hakkas never really embarked in any shrewd profession but performed work as manual laborers and peasants.

Btw, I am not starting a conflict with the Hakkas. In terms of my ancestry, I am 1/4 Hakka and 3/4 Cantonese. There are a number of Hakkas who have agreed with me on the above points. I have check some historical sources in HK and China about the Hakkas. I could not find any substantial evidence that supports their great achievements and contributions.

Hakkas need to re-evaluate themselves Friday, May 31, 2002 at 07:41:44 (PDT)

http://www.thailadies.com/html/basiclanguage.html

"Thai language is an ancient Indian languages that belongs to the Tai language family, a subgroup of the Kadai or Kam-Tai family. A number of linguists now regard Kam-Tai, along with Austronesian, as a branch of Austro-Tai, although this hypothesis remains controversial. It has also influenced by various Chinese dialects and by Malay. The modern Thai alphabet contains 44 consonants, 24 vowels and 5 tones. "

Thai is an Indian related language.

How come when people refer to khmer, they use the owrd MOn-Khmer? WHat's the difference btw Mon and Khmer ? from what i've learned, Mon are from Central China while Khmer has very different origins.

WOn Bin Friday, May 31, 2002 at 03:24:13 (PDT)

The minorities ethnics make up about 10 % of the vietnamese poplulation. Most of them live very separately from the vietnamese. They spaek different language, practice different customs, wear different clothes.I think they fall into 2 categories.THe minorities people in the South of Vietnam look very much like Malay or polynesians, Khmer. All of the minorities people in the North i think are all related to chinese(Tai, Jay, Jao, Nung,HMong...). They look very chinese don't even look different from Kinh people.
Won Bin Friday, May 31, 2002 at 02:49:22 (PDT)

An Nam guy:

I know it. Vietnamese are good people. Even if they hate you, they would not do bad thing for you.

"But that's just for those who want to know who introduced rice to most of asia, thank the champa empire (or was it the earlier Sa Huynh? Oh well)."

Well I have a question. People of Champa Kingdom are more related to laotian or Cambodian?

As for the rice cultivation in Asia,is it true Cham were the first to know how to make rice. From what I have learned, people in Yangtze River already knew how to produce rice from the early time. The ancient vietnamese before migrating South already had a consistent grasp of thses techniques.
WOnnib Friday, May 31, 2002 at 02:39:26 (PDT)

Vietnamese guy:

I don't think your immediate family members and relatives necessarily reflect the overall/general characteristics of the whole Vietnamese community in this country. Actually, I believe you guys are an exception. Well, in your case, maybe you should be classified as multicultural/multiracial. But, even then, I bet you would still gravitate towards your Vietnamese heritage and identify yourself with the rest of "pure" Vietnamese, more often than not.
I read somewhere that US government is actually thinking about creating a separate racial category for people like yourself, so stay tuned...

Well, Filipinos should be definitely categorized as Asian IMO. I don't even understand why they might feel they're not Asian or Asian enough. Although I admit I don't know too much about their past history or cultural heritage, the few ones I saw did look overwhelmingly Asian, much like the rest of us. Don't they also come from Asia?

Regarding Indians, I can understand if some of them feel somewhat ambivalent towards being put together with the rest of Asian people. I don't have to list the reasons. But, believe me, I have had many Indian friends in the past, and from what I've seen, I know that the majority of 'em would rather hang out with "us" Asians than with whites/blacks/Hispanics. Bottom line = Indians are a big part of Asia. Of course, if given a choice, they like to stick together among themselves, and differentiate from us just as we do from them. I don't blame 'em and that's perfectly fine with me although I like to see more of 'em on this site. It spices up things, you know...

At any rate, every ethnic group has some members who are mixed, you know. I don't know the actual outmarriage rate for V-As, but I tend to believe it's not any highter than those of other ethnicities. Thereby, vast majority of Vietnamese in this country do think of themselves as being nothing else but "Asian." V-As are a legitimate and important member of the AAs by sharing similar heritage, culture, values, and yes, racial background, etc., along with other AA groups.

va:

I appreciate your inputs. You are very right on many of the points you made, but I think you're guilty of "oversimplying" some of the other complicated issues. Also because of that you don't appear to know whole a lot about modern Korea or some of the regional/historical/geopolitical dilemma Korea had to face in the past and is still facing today. For example, saying/implying South Korea's economic miracle/boom was only achieved through basically coping everything Japan did or receiving Japanese financial aid is pretty absurd to me. Especially the latter. But, that's okay too. I know what you meant. If you just had spent more time to give some well-deserved credit to the Korean people for their indefatigable work ethic, high intelligence, and the great sacrifice they had to make to have arrived where they are now, then I wouldn't have had much gripes with you. After all, South Koreans earned it...

Regarding Korean migration to US; well, it may be technically true that Koreans have had a longer history/presence in this country than SE Asians. After all, first wave of immigrants came to Hawaii islands to work in the sugarcane fields about 100 years or so ago. Later on, some political refugees trickled in as well. However, the number was very few compared to either Chinese or Japanese, who both had come to US at much earlier time than the Koreans, and in a large number. And then US government, out of Yellow Peril, basically banned any kind of immigration from Pacific zone for several decades. Most of K-As in this country today are actually a result of so-called third wave immigration starting in 1960s and later on after US repealed its racist policy towards Asians because of severe work/labor shortages in certain economic sectors. It's very very rare to see a 3rd or a 4th generation Korean American although they obviously exist. Actually, I'm yet to meet a 3rd/4th generation K-A in my life. I don't think the odds are too good for that to happen to me. The typical K-As you might encounter are mostly FOBs or 2nd generationers. For all practical intent and purpose, K-As have arrived in this country at the same time as SE Asians have. Then, why have Koreans succeeded more? Well, there are several reasons I can think of, but I'll just give you one;

On the average, it may be true that Koreans came to this country better prepared in terms of educational background and financial resources than their SE Asian counterparts. I wouldn't elaborate since I think you know why. Of course, it doesn't apply to everyone, but that's how I see...

Yes, that atrocious LA riot thing turned off a lot of potential immigrants. Also many weary K-As actually have gone back to Korea after suffereing years of hardships and discrimination, and have educated inquiring Korean people about what American Dream is really all about. As a result, more Korean people are realistic/cautious about leaving their homeland and crossing the Pacific. The fact that Korea is doing so well nowadays will only work to discourage more people coming to US, I'm afraid.

BTW, there are actually more V-As in this country than K-As by a few thousand people...And Vietnamese are coming to this country in tens of thousands each year.

Well, I don't have a good knowledge regarding outmarriage rate for K-As or J-As although I suspect it might be slightely higher than other AA groups. Hey, after all the dust is settled, I feel like we still have enough of a potential dating pool left that I'm not too concerned about. I'm acutally thinking about marryingout myself!!

My final word on Korean language:

It was, it is and it will be a part of Ural-Altaic language sub-family until the hell freezes over whether some of you like/disagree or not.

Too late and too tired...

Once Korean Man Friday, May 31, 2002 at 02:24:28 (PDT)

I am just curious: "what evidence is there to tie in the Cantonese with Viets?"

Besides high number of tones, Cantonese and Vietnames are 2 separate languages.

There were indeed influences, but most of it being transmitted from Cantonese to Vietnamese. Not the other way around. Cantonese now is still closer to Mandarin than it is to Viet.
Cantonese-American Friday, May 31, 2002 at 00:17:58 (PDT)

Cantonese, Toisan, Hakka, Hoklo, Taiwanese, Teochew.

They all look the same to me. More similar to each other than they are to others. Some (not all) Shanghainese look like the aforementioned groups too.

People can point out slight differences between them, but in all the Chinatowns throughout the large cities of the USA, all these people look the same. Even genetics confirm it.

They seem to be intermediate between the Viets (true Yueh) and the northern Han.

aa Friday, May 31, 2002 at 00:15:18 (PDT)

On this board, I see a common illness that is common among Chinese people: "LACK OF UNITY AND COHESION."

I am a Chinese-American Christian. Although, the people at our church don't mention it, there once was a Christian holy war in China's history not too long ago.

It all started in the south, from where my ancestors came.

A man of Hakka origins, Hong Xiaocun converted to Christianity. But, he had a vision, that he was another prophet and that he was a brother of Jesus Christ. His mission from God was to come to China and drive out the inept Manchus and return the Middle Kingdom (China) to a heavenly status and paradise (conversion to his form of Christianity).

His real goal was to drive out the decaying Manchu dynasty and reinvigorate China (by his religion and nationalism). Southern Chinese people supported him because Manchu corruption and taxation hurt the southerners the most. Northern Han people remained loyal to the Manchu Qing, despite their inability to rule and check the excess of Western powers.

Despite his movement (Taipings) being Christian, Hong never received any support from European Christians. Hong and his movement would not cater in to their imperialistic designs on China. So, what happened?

The Manchus cleverly divided southern Chinese from northern Chinese, and the foreign Western powers came in and aided the Qing in destroying the Taiping Rebellion. At the same time, there were Muslim rebellions going on in the northwest. The Manchus also cleverly used Han Chinese from the southwest (mainly Hunan province) to quell the Muslim uprisings in Shaanxi, Gansu and Xinjiang.

But, the northwest Chinese Muslim rebels never connected with the southeast Chinese Christian rebels. All they wanted to do was rid themselves of the inept Manchu rule. But, they did not forge any alliance with each other. They could have, but didn't.

Hong Xiaocun was not a prophet in the strict sense. But, he deserves a place among Chinese Christianity as well as history. He fostered more Chinese nationalism, esp. among the people of the southern provinces.
Chinese unity Friday, May 31, 2002 at 00:06:01 (PDT)

Why did China lose the Boxer Rebellion?

This is one of the research topics I am doing for one of my classes' finals.

It took 14 nations to fight one Qing Dynasty!

All the best kungfu masters and warriors were summoned to go fight for the honor of the nation.

They (Manchus) would lie and deceit other troops by having people shoot western firearms into the sifus (masters) chests (with blank bullets) and they would be duped into thinking that the sifus (masters) would be invincible against the fan gwei lo (foreign ghosts and barbarians).

On the battlefield, they met defeat after defeat and were shot down like flies. Yes, even those invicible sifus with their swords in hand.

Only one Qing general (Chingerinchin, a Mongol descendant of Genghis Khan) wiped out a British-French army with fearless bravery and horsemanship skills. He relied not on superior weapons. He was not even a wushu master or sifu. He was just a Mongol from the praries land commanding Chinese troops with lack of direction.

If all the Chinese armies had fought like Chingerinchin, China would not have been pushed around for so long. It is not the weapons that count, but your heart.

Chingerinchin, Shaka Zulu and the Mahdi of Egypt wiped out European armies not with superior weaponry, but with warriors instincts and lions hearts.

This I am going to write and tell my class about.

Is there more I can add?
Boxers Rebellion Thursday, May 30, 2002 at 23:51:38 (PDT)

Just wondering, but is the last name Lee more common to the korean population or is it more commone to the chinese population? Well from what i see the korean Lee's are bigger in number, i don't see many chinese Lee's, the only Lee i ever saw was Bruce Lee, and a few billionaires in Hong Kong, but if you look in the Phone book and compare with the Lee's in Korea it would be less. Chan, and Chen and more of those seem to be more common.

Can someone tell me if Lee is a more korean name, by that i mean with more people having that last name.
Hafti Thursday, May 30, 2002 at 22:35:16 (PDT)

Filippino beauties:

what you said is interesting...hm...to be honest everytime i've seen a Filippino beauties.i never thought she's Filippino. I think she's Spanish or chinese. They kinda look different from the pinay girls in the Philippines.
Well... Thursday, May 30, 2002 at 20:53:59 (PDT)

Vietnamese Guy:

What's you said is not true...You can see black and white vietnamese everywhere in the america but it's DEFINITELY not the case in Vietnam. and what you say about other east asians being more pure is not true either. Chinese and even Korean people are also mixed w/ other ethnicities for thousands years. I don't think they are more homogenous than viets. The ratio of mixed chinese must be higher than that of Vietnamese!!

"So I guess my point is I don't think Vietnamese people are considered to be 'Asian' . We are forced to call ourselves 'Asian' because of that is the only category that we're have been assigned to. "

About Vietnamese not being considered 'asian', that's the MOST DUMB thing i've ever heard. can't believe a vietnamese could say something like that.
Well... Thursday, May 30, 2002 at 20:51:37 (PDT)

The story of this descendant of the Vietnamese Ly family is very touching.

I really don't know how other Koreans would take to the fact that they might have some Vietnamese in them, because all Koreans I know look down on Southeast Asian people.

The story of the Indian princess marrying the king of Kaya says the same. Very touching.

Korean homogeneity is baloney.

However small, these foreign influences and genes are in them. Remember, that one drop makes you whole!

Any of you ever hear of black slaves being brought back to Guangdong during the Ming Dynasty? What happened to them? Did they die out or got assimilated among the Cantonese? Do any of you know if the sickle-cell trait (only for people of Negroid genes) occurs among Cantonese? I know they got Anemia (commonly a Mediterranean and Near Eastern trait).

And, what happened to one of the Ming Dynasty prince who fled to Burma after the Manchu conquests? Did he stay and settle there too? I know that the current Premier of China (Zhu Rongji) claims Ming royal lineage descent. When Koxinga and his remnant Mings fled to Taiwan, didn't he bring over a Ming pretender to the throne too? What happened to them when the Qing forces finally captured Taiwan?
cc Thursday, May 30, 2002 at 20:35:46 (PDT)

gk,

In Mandarin, "Yuenan" (Vietnam) means "south of the Yueh." The ancestral home of Yueh is in Guangdong. Vietnam is located south of Guangdong.

"Yunnan" means south of the clouds. This is one of the most beautiful province in China (along with Guangxi and Guizhou). The scenery is breathtaking. Weather pattern is highly variable although it lies in a tropical zone. Some areas of Yunnan can snow during parts of the year.
Bob Thursday, May 30, 2002 at 20:26:41 (PDT)

I have to say that I am married to a Cambodian women, and she is very beautiful. It's a shame Cambodians weren't put on the list to choose from. I guess the people who created the poll thought that poor countries all have uglier people than better off countries. I don't know.
sothias Thursday, May 30, 2002 at 20:26:33 (PDT)

[Numbers and practicality dictate such decisions. Cambodians remain a miniscule part of the AA population. --Ed]

What is the extent of piracy in the South China Seas today?

When we took a boat cruise tour of Guangxi 3 summers ago, they warned us not to venture too far into or near the waters of the south.

I know that the Spratly Islands are still a major thorn in the relations between China, Taiwan, Phillipines, Vietnam.

China and Vietnam both seem eager to seize them at any cost.

Are there major skirmishes on the seas these days? How are local pirates involved?

Is the Chinese-Vietnamese border heavily fortified? I know that people of Guangxi do not like the Vietnamese all too much. There were some ethnic Chinese from Vietnam who resettled in Guangxi after the communist takeover there in the 1970s. It was, they claim, due to ethnic persecution.
tri Thursday, May 30, 2002 at 20:14:43 (PDT)

An Nam Guy,

I agree with you totally. The ethnic Chinese are generally hated and envied for their economic clout in all Southeast Asian countries.

But, in Vietnam and Thailand, they are a little bit more integrated. One king of Thailand, himself was Chinese (Teochew) descended. And, after him, acceptance of Chinese in Thailand was the norm.

But, in Indonesia and Malaysia, the Chinese have been trading and settling there since Yuan times. Prior to Islamization of these islands, the Chinese got assimilated a little more than now. Now, no Chinese can ever be assimilated unless they are Muslim. I heard that even Chinese Muslims residing in Indonesia are treated in the same lot as all Chinese are over there. In Phillipines (also of Malayan race), the Chinese are a bit more integrated but there still are occasional kidnappings targetting mainly them.

One more thing, just look at the current situation in East Timor, and you can tell that it is sometimes religion that drives some to hate and kill. The East Timorese are no different from other Indonesians, but because they are Christian, they were subjected to brutal mass slayings, kidnappings, rapes, forced marriages and forced conversions. I have read some accounts of what happened to them. It is just as worse if not a little more horrible than what happened to the ethnic Chinese in Indonesia.

I always thought that my people (the Chinese in America) had it bad, but not until I have read what is happening to my compatriots in other lands of the diaspora. Our experiences now is paradise compared to what is happening to them.

Sad thing is that China no longer view the ethnic Chinese in Southeast Asia as Chinese. China is not very vocal to what is happening to the ethnic Chinese in Southeast Asia, in order to curry better diplomatic favor with those Southeast Asian nations.
descendants of the Yellow Emperor Thursday, May 30, 2002 at 20:09:39 (PDT)

to cassy:

it is an interesting question that you raised concerning the relationship between the Chu and the Yueh during the Warring States Period.

from what i read, the Chu state were in fact allied with the Yueh against the state of Wu (situated in the lower Yangtze Valley). The Wu state was very close to conquering Chu, but the Yueh launched a surprise attack against Wu and succeeded in conquering it.

The Chu state was among the last of the warring states before being itself conquered by the Qin state, who succeeded in unifying all of China(about 220 B.C.?).

in terms of the ethnic makeup of the chu state, as far as i know, they were intermediate between northern Chinese (in the Huanghe River basin) and southern Chinese... if you look at modern inhabitants of the region that was Chu territory (modern Hubei Province and southern Henan Province), their physical features also seem to be a mixture of northern and southern Chinese. They are somewhat darker-skinned than northern Chinese but are more strongly built compared to southern Chinese or Vietnamese.

i hope this answers some of your questions...

ABC who knows China Thursday, May 30, 2002 at 19:52:16 (PDT)

va;
You don't know too much about Corean Americans. Most Corean Americans who immigrated to US came during the late 70's and early 80's. About the same time periold as most South East Asians.
Why has the Corean Americans succeed while Southeast Asians continue to struggle? Lack of self respect, confidence and discipline.

Vietnamese guy
You are just dumb! What? Viet come in black, yellow and white? hahahaha
99.9% of Viets are homogeneous. There are less than 1 percent who are mixed due to American and French soliders.
Mandoo Thursday, May 30, 2002 at 19:48:40 (PDT)

The people coming to Taiwan along with Jiang Jieshi (Chiang Kai-shek) were not entirely all beifangren.

Many were from the Shanghai, Jiangsu, Zhejiang areas. There were also a lot from Guangdong and Fujian. It makes sense because these were the provinces closest to Taiwan, and people from those provinces were more often found in the Nanjing government. For example, many of the Nationalist (KMT) generals were Cantonese speakers who graduated in the Whampoa Military Academy in Canton along with people like Sun Yat-sen, Chiang Kai-shek and Wang Ching-wei. They were contemporaries.

There were also people who came from Beijing, Shandong and other parts of northern China to Taiwan. But, the waishengren of Taiwan are from all over China (with the 4 provinces I mentioned being in the majority).
unique Thursday, May 30, 2002 at 15:58:22 (PDT)

chinalova,

No Aryans ever been in Corea. They have not found bodies or artifacts indicating otherwise. Neither have they been found in Japan. Even in northern China, only 2 provinces have found Caucasoid (presumably Aryan types) bodies: in Xinjiang and Shandong.

The only Aryans to have visited Corea and Japan did not come until the late 19th century (Western Europeans to be exact).
Sung Cho Thursday, May 30, 2002 at 15:50:39 (PDT)

btw, more to come

T.H. Lien:
My reference to Singapore was an allusion to help make a case of the current oppression of ethnic Chinese in Indonesia. As an air-head would say, "No DUH!!!!!" Are you less competent than an air-head?
chinatown Thursday, May 30, 2002 at 15:02:52 (PDT)

To, vietnamese guy;

What your parents say is true, the vietnamese people IN THE SOUTH are not as pure as they were a long time ago. But common intermarrying happens MOSTLY in the southern region of vietnam where your parents come from. The north still holds aggression towards the chinese and many other ethnics. Don't forget that the central holds the same feelings. I'm from northern vietnam, and it's true that the chinese ARE accepted EXTREMELY well these days, i thought that the age old dislike against the chinese was gone. I was wrong, my father has many chinese friends, so when i asked him was it ok if i married a chinese person (to see what he would say) he said, "NEVER WILL A VIET MARRY A CHINESE", he said something about being friends is ok, but we should always keep the viet blood as pure as possible, and we can not forget what others has done to us, until they truly are sorry for what they have done. I've been to more then 15 northern vietnamese cities/villages and 3 central cities/villages. ALL of them have the same feelings and ideas. I've been to 2 cities in the south, and they do accept the chinese more. But in the village of Ba Tri they hold the same feelings as the north. But saigon is very accepting these days, but there is undoubtably discrimination.

True that vietnam does have better relations with the chinese then other SE Asian countries though, but not so much better.

General Viet Thursday, May 30, 2002 at 14:22:51 (PDT)

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