Comparing Asian Nationalities | Asian American Poll

COMPARING ASIAN NATIONALITIES
(Updated Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 05:20:44 PM to reflect the 100 most recent valid responses.)

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WHAT YOU SAY

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Vietnamese Guy,

I can see how filipinos and indians feel that they shouldnt be lumped in with the other asians, but vietnamese are Asian peoples, racially and more importantly culturally. Vietnamese are pretty oriental peoples. Vietnamese should be proud to be asian.
Vietnamese are asian Sunday, June 02, 2002 at 05:18:29 (PDT)

http://www.saigoninfo.com/vanhoa/geography-main.htm

Origin of the Viet People

The origin of the Vietnamese people is shrouded in the mist of antiquity. According to L. Aurousseau and E. Chavannes, in 333 B.C. the Yuch moved from Yang-Tze-Kiang valley to South, along the coast, into the lower valley of the Red River. Claudius Madrolle argued also that the term Yuch was the Sino-Vietnamese pronunciation given in the eleventh century by the Chou dynasty to the southern part of ancient China. In this era, dissidents princes who resisted the imperial power, had their fields confiscated. The emperer turned the seized fields into a kingdom, the Xích-Quyû, the crown of which was presented to Loäc-Tuïc, also known as Kinh Döông Vöông. The Xích-Quyû Kingdom was bounded on the North by Ñoäng-Ñình Lake (Hu Nan province), on the south by Hoà-Toân Kingdom (Champa), on the West by Ba Thuïc (Szechwan) and on the East by Nam-Haûi Sea.
Enthroned in 1042 B.C. the new prince included among his successors Suøng-Laõm, who has been worshipped by the Viet as their ancestor under the ritual title of Laïc Long Quaân or Sovereign of the Dragon’s Lineage. It was he, whom in the beginning of the fifth century B.C. took over the realm of the SPA Yuch (Sino-Vietnamese: Baùch-Viet, or One hundred Yuch Tribes which included what is now North Viet Nam). Having a strong fleed at his disposal, he sent off his eldest son to the mouth of the Red River with a numerous body of colonists, and thus was founded the Vaên-Lang Kingdom, the earliest king of which received the dynasty title of Huøng-Vöông.
...
History Sunday, June 02, 2002 at 04:30:44 (PDT)

I tend to think the northern Thai and northern lao are related to Southern Chinese.

YUEH is Vietnamese, but it's also the general word to describe the non-Han and non-Indian asians (NOT Malay or Khmer)living in what is now Southern china. This group include Kinh(yueh-muong), Tay-Tai, Sino-Tibetan, Mon-Khmer(I don't think Mon-khmer and khmer are 2 related groups. burmese are related to mon-khmer but they're completely different from Cambodian),etc.. The ethnic minorities in Northen Vietnam belonged to this group. Those people live in a widespread areas before the Han invasion. Han people only lived in Northen China, mainly around the Yellow River. In ancient time, there's no Han people around the Yangtze river. Now there is Northen Han and Southern Han but before, there was only Northern Han. Han is BASICALLY northern asians. There is a speculation Lao Tzu is of yueh descent(he's from the South).

However it doesn't mean the one hundred yueh tribes are racially related. Like, ethnically,sino-tibetan and vietnamese are different people. Even the Jao or Nung people in Vietnam are believed to be ethnically different from kinh. A for Hmong living in unsnowy region, it's not true. In Sapa (Vietnam) where the Miao (Hmong) live, there is snow.

In chinese annals, it is written, the Qins were defeated by the vietnamese in Guangxi. Vietnam fled and left the Qin army alone which lead them to die of hunger. The battle took place in Northen Guangxi(which belongs to Yangtze river). Vietnamese is the only tribe in Yueh group to defeat the Han,and flee South, thus avoid the assimilation. Most of their neighbors were invaded by qin shi huang ti.
Something Sunday, June 02, 2002 at 03:37:52 (PDT)

i find koreans to be the most attractive asians and filipinos to be the friendliest and most down to earth. all asians are cool though!
uz Saturday, June 01, 2002 at 20:38:15 (PDT)

The Zhuang are probably the closest relatives to the Yueh people who once inhabited all of southern China.

Once fearless warriors with a culture of their own, they are now reduced to minority status.

Their closest relatives include the Hmong (in China and Vietnam) as well as the Vietnamese themselves. Many "Han Chinese" people of Fujian, Guangdong and Guangxi may have some of their blood in them as well because many had assimilated and Sinicized.

They were brought under full Chinese control during the Sung Dynasty. A succession of Sung forces now were sent against the Zhuang, but the local Zhuang defeated them in the mountains around Yong. The Zhuang had slain the first five Sung commanders sent against them by the court. The Sung Emperor dispatched General Di Qing, a career military official from Shanxi, a student of Qin and Han military methods, who had fought 25 battles in 4 years against the Xi-xia (Tibetans). Di literally had fought his way up through the ranks and early in his career. Di was given carte blanche and gathered 31,000 men and 32 generals in Hunan province. He enrolled crack Fan-luo tribal cavalry from the Northwest, of whom it was said, "They were able to ascend and descend mountains as though walking on level ground."

The king of Dai Co Viet, Ly Thai-tong, offered to cooperate in subduing the Zhuang (Yueh), proposing to send 20,000 troops. The offer was initially accepted by the commander in Gui Zhou (Guilin). The Ren Zong Emperor (R. 1023-63) consulted General Di who pointed out both the embarrassment of having to use foreign troops and the possibility that the Viets might ultimately refuse to withdraw. The offer was rejected.

Di understood that the Zhuangs' ultimate weapon was their mobility, and enforced strict discipline to cloak his troop movements. When one general attacked early with 8,000 men, suffering another defeat, General Di had him and 31 officers decapitated. Di made a night march of 25 kilometers and invested the key Kunlun pass north-east of Yong. This was a catastrophic loss for the Zhuang. The loss of the high ground presented the Zhuang with a difficult decision: they could either fight in defense of their capital at Yong, undergoing a siege for which they were ill-suited and Di Qing very experienced or they could choose to fight on the plains around Nanning where Di Qing could take full advantage of his cavalry. The Zhuang general, Nong Zhigao preferred a war of movement to undergoing a siege and met Di to the north of Yong, in the first month of 1054.

The Zhuang attacked in their classic array, wearing brightly colored uniforms, fighting in units of three. One of the two Sung commanders below Di fell in the initial stages of the battle, but experience and discipline told at the last. The shield wall depended, like phalanx warfare, on presenting a largely continuous front to the enemy. Any opening in the wall or phalanx, gave a determined enemy a chance to penetrate the wall and negate it by enveloping movements to the rear. Such a deployment caught the Zhuang against their own wall and exposed their more lightly armored infantry to the attacks of Han archers or heavy infantry. An opening gambit in such warfare was a continual shifting of the line of battle to try to force the enemy into making a misdeployment which might reveal some weakness which could be exploited. Di's highly-trained men were capable of rapid changes in formation which confused the Zhuang, who could not maintain their ranks.

Di, like the student of war which he was, had perhaps studied the earlier campaigns against the mutineer Chen Jin, for he utilized the tactic which had neutralized the Zhuang shield wall. Seeing an opening in the Zhuang line, Di sent in special contingents of Sung infantry who chopped at the Zhuang shields with heavy swords and axes. The reports of the battle are somewhat murky, but it is probable that at this point the Han either opened the shield wall sufficiently to permit the Fan Luo cavalry to rush in, or they came in an enveloping attack on Zhigao’s wings. Here the classical attack of the nomad horse-archers was to range behind the enemy line cutting communications lines and shooting the enemy from the rear. Caught on all sides, the Zhuang fled, leaving 3,000 dead. It is not possible to accurately determine Nong Zhigao's total strength, but it was probably never more than about ten thousand men. While the casualties at the battle for Yong were appreciable, many more fled the field, indicating that the Zhuang were demoralized by the rapid and flexible assault which Di launched.

When he entered Yong, Di Qing executed the Jin-shi Huang, two of Nong Zhigao's family, and 57 officials of the Nong kingdom. Di also took 9 official seals and quantities of gold, brocades, horses and oxen. Nong Zhigao, his mother, brother, and sons fled, intending to raise troops from the other Zhuang clans, and to train for the cavalry warfare which had proven decisive, as he had feared.

Nong Zhigao (Nung Tri Cao in Vietnamese) is seen as a hero both in China and Vietnam today. He belonged to the Zhuang and Hmong race (Yueh people).

This is how the provinces of Guangdong and Guangxi came to be part of Han China. It was not peaceful by any means. Similar to how the Latin Americas became part of the Spanish orbit.
tri Saturday, June 01, 2002 at 19:45:44 (PDT)

There's someting i've been wondering? if southern chinese are truly a mix of Northern han and the vietnamese, why do they have darker skin while both northen hans and vietnamese are light?

Bob: there is snow in Yunnan? i heard in Northern Vietnamese mountain the weather ia also snowy in the winter. and the Hmong folk story about snow... So it is possible they're from Southern China. I tend to think they are.
patch Saturday, June 01, 2002 at 10:01:32 (PDT)

One Korean man:

About Korean migration to Japan:
The fact that 70 ~90% of Japanese are descendant from Korea is widely accepted in Japan. It is most popular theory about the root of japanese in Japan.
But in this term, This 'Korea' does not mean modern Korean people.
It was estimated about 2300~2400 years ago that the first and largest immigration from southern part of Korea to western Japan had occured.
In this time, the people in southern Korea were different from modern Korean people. they were Han chinese like people.
And after this immigration occured, large immigration occured from southern Manchuria to Korean peninsula.
So, Korean element of Japanese and modern Korean are not same.

About Altaic origine of Korean/japanse language:
I don't know about language well. But I've heard that comparing for Indo-European language group, Altaic language group is not firmly established.
Altaic language group is composed of Turkish, Mongolian, Tungus subgroups. But even the relationship between these subgoups are not proved.
The relationship between Tungus and Korean/Japanese language are not proved.
And even the relationship between Korean and Jananese language are not proved.

Anyway, thanks for FIFA world cup, there is big boom in Korea and Japan now. The friendship mood between Korea and Japan growth better and better.
Many Japanese younger generation looks Korean as friend, close neighborhood, very resemble to themselves not just in face, in culture, economic state, sense of values, feelings.
Korea and Japan are becoming good friends and partner.
olmy Saturday, June 01, 2002 at 01:11:10 (PDT)

Hey, what are you guys talking about? I am Cantonese, and I think Hakkas are very capable people too. Like the Chiu-Chou (Teochew), the Hakkas in Guangdong are known to look after their own always. You find that they carried these traits on into the diaspora in southeast Asia.

The most famous Hakka I know is the previous leader of Singapore (Lee Kuan Yew). He still plays a major role in Singaporean (as well as Asian) politics.

Also, I heard that Chow Yun-fat, the most famous HK actor is also of Hakka heritage?

Hakkas are becoming more integrated into their environs whether in Guangdong, Fujian or Taiwan. Actually, all of China is becoming more and more integrated everyday with the use of one language (Putonghua, or Mandarin) and the fact that people can move from one place to another very quickly these days.

Hakkas are not very much different from their Cantonese or Fukienese neighbors. It's just that time and location separated different dialect groups in the past.
Cantonese-American Friday, May 31, 2002 at 23:46:53 (PDT)

Hafti,

I believe that Lee (and or Li) is one of the top 3 most common surnames among the Chinese. I think it is the same among Coreans and Vietnamese.

By the way, how did Coreans and Vietnamese come up to have the same surnames as Chinese? I thought they were not all related?
tri Friday, May 31, 2002 at 23:29:19 (PDT)

ABC who knows China,

Thanks. I just read somewhere that the state of Chu was formulated by an ethnic Han Chinese aristocracy while its ordinary folk were related to Yueh peoples.

I heard that the Qin state also intermarried with a neighboring "Rong tribe" (presumably Iranian like the Yuehchih or Turkic like the Huns).

And, the Zhou state also had major Tibetan and Turkic components in its citizenry despite the nobility being ethnic Han Chinese.

If we went back to times before the empires and dynasties, pre-imperial China was made up of many races that eventually amalgamated.
cassy Friday, May 31, 2002 at 23:25:40 (PDT)

To, cc;

I WOULDN'T blame the koreans for hating the vietnamese or looking down to them. They have served in the vietnamese war, and my father told me stories on how they abused the koreans because they acted superior picking fights and stuff. The teachers said to leave them alone, as the koreans are very proud and will see those who show respect as equals and those who fight them as inferior. But my dad was very pissed off when he heard that a korean wiped out an entire village, and he challenged the very same guy him table tennis. The koreans and my dad basically dueled, and my dad lost at the last moment, my dad then took the advantage of anger (for excuse) and beat the guy up almost shooting him when the guy was swearing at the vietnamese populations.

That one guy could have spread the entire hatred. Just to clear things up, my dad is chinese (our family lineage book says we came after the Ming Dynasty fell). He was just very impulsive when young, i don't blame him. But many similar incidents happened, and that could have spread the hatred like crazy after 20 years.

tt chinese from VN Friday, May 31, 2002 at 21:41:12 (PDT)

To, cc;

Do the koreans look down at the SE Asians as a whole, or do they actually specify by saying, "Stupid Viet"? Or do they go more general like, "Supid SE ASIANS"? Just curious, i am just curious.

To, Cantonese-American;

What you say is true, the influence is usually from the Cantonese to the viet, but from history the Cantonese were the viets. The similarities could have already been there, we will never know, people only assume that the common words are borrowed, but how do they know that it is NOT shared from a common ancestor? But never the less, the Cantonese are indeed more influenced by mandarin, and the vietnamese a huge mix of thai, khmer and malay.
Hafti Friday, May 31, 2002 at 21:32:53 (PDT)

To, WOnnib;

Are you addressing to me or An Nam Guy? Your quotes were from MY posts! Oh well, if it's from my posts i'll answer from what i know, and if you want An Nam Guy he can help out too.

The Champa didn't discover rice cultivations, it is commonly believed that the HoaBinhians did (people from the Red River Delta), BUT the ones whos spread it across asia were the Champa or a predessor. The Yueh WERE recorded to have been advanced in agriculture, but they weren't considered the first. The Hoa Binh people lived from 20000-10000 BC in the Phu To province of northern vietnam, and escavations have proven or pointed to the conclusion that agriculture was around and could have even been first discovered there, even before the Mesopotamian civilization. The Hoa Binh were descendents to the Song Vi, and ancestors to the Dong Song, and many others. They are also believed to be the ancestors to todays vietnamese. It was conluded when escavations were done and the bone structures were near to identical between the modern viet and the Dong Son people. Also they had the long second toe and more space feet thing, BUT the Yueh were ALSO described with this feature! Odd, they were recorded to have been two different groups, the People of the Red River Delta (Dong Son) were described by it's trade partners as being leaner and smaller, lighter in skin tone, and bigger eyes, ALSO with funny long toes. The YUEH in turn were described with the same traits by CONFUCIOUS himself. In conclusion they could have been related long ago through the Song Vi (or even the later hoa binh, who could have passed down agricultural knowledge) ancestor, BUT there is now a GREATER chance that the chinese scholars could have mistaken the modern viets for the Yuehs because of common features between the possible (but more likely and more supported through archaelogy) ancestors the Dong Son and the Yueh (both described as indigenous to their area of living, but the Dong Son ancestors were actually there and the Yueh ancestors stopped after a while, so a conclusion has been made that a branch of the Hoa Binh or the Song Vi could have migrated north to the Yueh area from the Red River Delta, while most stayed and became the Dong Son, because of the OBVIOUS common traits).

The RED RIVER DELTA people (Hoa Binh to be exact) have been found to have practiced agriculture as early as the 12th millenium BC. The Yueh were recorded to be the first in the chinese area, but not in asia. The Hoa Binh were found to have practiced agriculture, but their descendents the Dong Son traded extensively but only sold bronze drums, not spreading agricultural technics, but the Cham ancestors (Sa Huynh) who lived very close to the Dong Son learned how to cultivate rice from the Dong Son and spread the technics.

I believe the Champa were destroyed by the ancient vietnamese. The Champa constantly sacked the capital of vietnam, and at that time the vietnamese weren't as strong, so they did what they did about three times, but then the generals started to make more weapons, thus defeating the Cham for it's aggressiveness. But after that many of the Cham moved down to the South and many moved to cambodia.
General Viet Friday, May 31, 2002 at 21:25:10 (PDT)

Dear General Viet, Hafti, Yellow Emperor and tri,

I pithy the Chinese for being persecuted in Southeast Asia for their economic prosperity, but we must keep in mind that we must not let a small Chinese minority runs our country. The only solution that the Chinese could be accepted is when they abandon the Chinese language and assimilate with their country of resident. They must be force to speak official language of that country whether it is Vietnamese, Pilipino, Thai, Indonesian, etc and practice the culture and tradition of that country. I agree with the Chinese goverment action on unwilling to help the Chinese in Southeast Asia getting fair treatment, it would swell diplomatic relations. The Chinese should fend for themselves by letting go of their Chinese heritage, show to the natives that they are willing to do it to become the people they are not.

I don't think Vietnamese are direct descendants of the Yueh, although the Chinese insist that they are and called us Yuehnan "Yueh of the South". I agree with the theory that the Vietnamese are the Dong Son people who had live at the Red River Delta around Hanoi before Chinese ruled. Possibly, they have came in contact with the Yueh of Southern China to produce the Vietnamese we see today.

Vietnamese are not a homogenous people, only 90% of Vietnam are pure Vietnamese compare with 95% pure Koreans in Korea and 99% pure Japanese in Japan. As you move south, the Vietnamese live side by side with the Chams, Javanese (Indonesian), and Khmer who lived in separate neighborhood. They resented the Vietnamese rule because the land was once theirs but the Vietnamese seized these land as they marched south in the 18 century. The Vietnamese wanted to rid the Champa Kingdom in modern day Central Vietnam because they were responsible for constant disruption, loot, and war. Also they expand into the Khmer Kingdom in modern day Southern Vietnam because it was unoccupied and unexplored.

Concerning the Vietnamese language, it is not grouped or classified as Sino-Tibetan or Mon-Khmer, its origins is unknown much like Korean and Japanese. However, I believed 25%-30% of the Vietnamese vocabularies are borrowed from the Khmer, Chinese, English, and French the rest are spoken by the natives. Scientific and Educational terms derive from Chinese but corrected in tone to conform with the Vietnamese language. When the French colonized Vietnam, words like soap, coffee, etc which the Vietnamese were unfamiliared with were introduced.

Concerning Vietnam relationship with China, a definite border must be drawn to prevent the Chinese from declaring possession of Vietnamese territories/land like the Islands of Hoang Sa and Truong Sa in eastern Vietnam, and redefining the Vietnam-China boundary by seizing Ai Nam Quang and moving it 1000 kilometer into Vietnam in China favor.
Dai Viet Friday, May 31, 2002 at 20:38:11 (PDT)

Regarding Vietnamese language.

More than 60% of words in today Vietnamese language are from Chinese Han.

For Example: China Airline called Trung Hoa Hang Khong in Vietnamese.

China is called Trung Hoa
Airline is called Hang Khong

Vietnamese pronunciation is more Cantonese than Mandarin.

Chinese is official written language for Kingdom of Vietnam, independent period, more than one thousand years plus the period of Chinese rule for another more than one thousand years.

The modern Roma alphabet Vietnamese language today was developed by the French (tended to wipe out Chinese influences in Vietnam) based on Vietnamese pronunciation after Kingdom of Vietnam had been defeated in 19th century.

Look at this way. In 19 century, before the French came, a Viet guy met a Cantonese guy and a Teochew guy. They spoke different dialects and they did not understand what they were talking about, but when they wrote down what they wanted. They all understood. Why? They all wrote in Chinese. They wanted to play Chinese chess! :)

Hmm I thought they were about to fight :)

Although Chinese and Vietnamese Emperors spoke different dialects, but they could easily communicate through email without any problems because they both wrote Chinese :)

An Nam Guy Friday, May 31, 2002 at 17:01:03 (PDT)

Filipinos are very interesting people. They just refuse to be part of a single category such as Asian because they feel they are culturally unique and diverse. Theres nothing wrong with that. This Asian debate has gone far tooooo long. Filipinos geographically in Asia which makes them Asian. Racially they are Asian but filipinos today diverse phenotypes. Whats the problem? Thats why on censuses and applications, filipinos should, and have a right to get their own category: FILIPINO. What i have noticed in the US, filipino americans really resent getting lumped with the Asians, Pacific Islanders, and ESPECIALLY HISPANIC. This lumping together has made Filipinos invisible. They are underrepresnted with out a voice, a face....its sad but its true, Filipinos have a BIG problem. However, i think the warmth, sincerity, friendliness, optimistic, welcoming, and ability to adapt transcends their faults as a people.

As for filipino beauties, is Miss America 2001, a filipino spanish looking or chinese looking? NO. Why can't everyone just give that a rest, everyone knows the REAL filipinos are the ones with menial jobs, the ones who open up their homes to visitors with a smile, the ones who attend church every sunday while living in poverty. Those are the REAL FILIPINOS. Not in beauty pageants looking white, not in the movies portraying a degrading filipino stereotype. God bless the filipinos.
filipino people Friday, May 31, 2002 at 14:53:43 (PDT)

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