Comparing Asian Nationalities | Asian American Poll

COMPARING ASIAN NATIONALITIES
(Updated Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 04:39:09 AM to reflect the 100 most recent valid responses.)

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WHAT YOU SAY

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boo boo,

You are very wrong. You stated that the chinese are nature loving blah blah blah. Thats very daoist, and daoism has disgraced china and imbedded it's ugly face into China's already destroyed reputation. Think Confucianism. I find Chinese very logical and rational thinkers, favouring technology. Daoist should not call themselves chinese for they do not even like government! Your comments are more foreign born than any other ones I have seen. I'll go easy on you, since your from Shanghai, and the Shanghainese are a well high class Confucian principled people. Let me guess you also watch Kung Fu movies and have a raging thought in your mind that small tiny *mainly daoist Kung Fu Southern people of the nation* can kick the white guys ass... well many chinese are taller than caucasians *I will not imply they are white, for shanghai people, and japanese, have very fair skin tones. Exposure of the Cantonese to foreign nations have also made China have that yellow skin reputation, rounded , flat face reputation, but if you look in the whole of north china, but still under 40 degrees latitute (above you'll find mongolia and manchuria, who are different) you can find almost the whole population long faced, tall noses, sleek eyes, and females with skin nearly as white as the background in GoldSea!

China is a complicated nation. Who are the Chinese? Well if we think basic, anyone inside the borders... and if we think prehistoric, the nomads in the north. But the name China or jung guo, was created by the central government districts in mainly Beijing to Nanjing, Shandong to LuoYang, etc... These people are what I think should have the title as pure chinese. When you think Chinese, think of the rulers and the cities that were in the central government areas, and their citizens. China is about the size of Europe. Imagine Italy conquered the whole area... Italians would face the problems China faced if the Spanish decided to be cannibals and go to foreign areas supposedly "representing" the Italians, then the whole world will think the italians are cannibals! And oh yes... You cant really find any chinese anywhere out of China. Most people are Fujian Taiwanese, and Cantonese Toi San peoples. There is only a small small number of the ruling group, or middle upper class of China.

Anyways, I saw on T.V. Sports channel the stats of the teams in Soccer World Cup, amazingly, but i expected this, Chinese soccer team averaged 183cm. Koreans averaged 179.5 cm. The americans were 178 cm. You can decide and apply it to comparison with the known average height of americans etc etc.
Zhang 183 Sunday, June 09, 2002 at 05:45:51 (PDT)

We (Asian Americans) are from different tribes (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Filipino, Cambodian, Thai, etc.). But, we have a source or tool that can unite us (English language and American Dream).

The Native Americans have been wiped off from this land. We are their rightful heirs and closest relatives.

Unlike them, we have the means to resist destruction. All we just have to do is unite and put behind petty differences and conflicts from the old homelands in Asia.

We should be the torch bearers for a new Asian image and identity. We should blaze the trail and lead the way. The time will come when Asia becomes united. But, first, we Asian Americans must do it to prove to them how possible it is.

If the Europeans (who have been massacring each other since the beginning of time) can do it, why can't we? When we got far less blood between each other, than the Europeans had for one another!

I believe Sunday, June 09, 2002 at 01:52:56 (PDT)

When the Chinese Exclusion law was passed in 1882, racism against Asians started. Many Asians were mistaken for Chinese.

During World War II, many Asians were mistaken for Japanese.

When Vincent Chin was murdered in the 1980s, it was because they thought he was Japanese.

During the 1992 LA Riots, other Asian store owners (Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Filipino, Vietnamese) got mistaken for being Korean.

You guys see that no matter how rich, how tall, how beautiful, how intelligent, how mixed you are---to them, we are all still Asian.

Infighting and fomenting dissent within the ranks has prevented Asians in America from working together to form a truly cohesive movement and identity. We identify with others more than we do ourselves.

Yet, when another Asian is attacked for his skin color, we all are attacked. In essence, it is because we cannot escape our Asian features.

If Asians come together, we are second to none. We will be the envy of this world. I am not just saying the different Asian ethnic groups, but also the Asian men, Asian women, rich Asians, poor Asians, young Asians, old Asians, USA-born Asians, immigrant Asians, etc.

We are already seen as meek, and if we fight each other, others would see us in even more weaker position.

We are all in this same dilemma whether we believe it or not.
Asian America Unity Sunday, June 09, 2002 at 01:34:18 (PDT)

The Tang Chinese at one time, had access to all the various women of Asia: Viets, Mongols, Turks, Koreans, Japanese, Malay, Thai, Indian, Turk, Tocharian blondes, Central Asian and Persian. They came either as tribute or as war captives.

It is the Persian women they favored most. A large exile Persian community was found all over China at that time. They had fled the Arab Muslims.

The native Han Chinese ladies adopted their head and wear fashions. Modern Chinese acrobatics originated from Persian dancing women doing tricks at the courts. The Tang Chinese were fond of Persian polo horse racing. And, at the large metropolises, dancing girls from An-xi (Persia) were found. They were noted for their beauty and wild eyes. Tang Chinese nobles often bought out the services of these dancing women and made them concubines.

The famous Tang poet, Li Bai makes mention of it: "The fiery eyes of the western houri."

I still find this to be true. Persian girls are the most beautiful of all races women. Even with the veil on and no cosmetics, they have very clear and delicate features.
dancing into the night in Chang'an Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 21:32:32 (PDT)

One Korean Man,

There is just speculation that the Kaya (or Karak) kingdom in medieval Korea may have been Malay originated because its people were very seafaring, just like the ones in Japan and south China.

Prior to being conquered by Shilla and Baekjae, they had the most contact with the various Japanese kingdoms whom were also probably of Malay and Yueh (south Chinese) extraction.

I read somewhere that they also ate raw fish (like the people of Japan, pre-Han south China and south India). What kind of language did these people of Kaya spoke, we don't know for sure. They became Korean after losing statehood.

It is not really known if the Yamato was from Baekjae or Goguryo, otherwise Chinese historical sources would have mentioned it. The Tang Chinese had much contact with both Goguryo and Baekjae. They also did with the Prince Shotoku of Japan. If those medieval Japanese were of Korean direct descent, the Chinese sources would have mentioned it. But, it is still clear that the Japanese had much cultural contact and influences with the 3 Korean kingdoms before it did with the Tang Chinese.

We will never know the entire truth, even if the Japanese imperial tombs are unearthed for study. Wearing a Korean garment wouldn't indicate much. I am sure that you can unearth many Korean imperial tombs and find that many of its kings were buried in Chinese robes with Chinese characters. Now, would they make the claim that Koreans came from Chinese? Heck NO.
We all have separate identities Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 21:11:25 (PDT)

Miyagi,

Actually, from what I read, the earliest Han tribes may have been in more contact with the Sumerians, Babylonians and Persians than they did with Tunguz tribes.

The earliest Chinese neolithic sites (Yangshao and Lungshan) contained pottery types that are also found in Iran, Armenia and eastern parts of Turkey.

And, they found a pre-historic stone scroll in modern Uzbekistan that contained writing similar to our Chinese written characters.

The Sino-Tibetan tribes (from whence came the Han, Tibetan, Yueh) were probably from Central Asia (the modern Turkestans) or West Asia before encountering Tunguz and Malay in the east.

And, the Southeast Asian and West Asian element among the Han Chinese is just as dominant as the Tunguzic ones. Tunguzic elements were added later (by absorbing Dong-i and Koreans, or by the invading Mongols and Manchus).
Bob Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 20:59:31 (PDT)

gk,

Actually from what I heard, those Indonesian police not only did nothing to stop the riots, murders and rapes of ethnic Chinese, but actually took part in some of them or incited them.

I really think those wealthy Indonesian of Chinese descent should transfer their immense wealth to China and help develop the motherland instead.

And, shouldn't those ethnic Chinese in Indonesia or whatever Southeast nations migrate back to China? I mean, isn't China doing better than those nations nowadays?
Chinese diaspora Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 19:23:44 (PDT)

One Korean Man,

I didn't have enough time to read all of your lengthy long long postings. So I wouldn't comment all of your statements. Yes, you certainly have too much leisure time and excessive testosterone. What a poor guy you are.
I slightly regret to discuss with you, because I didn't know that you were so emotional, full of fixed biased fantasy, exaggerate reaction. You have typical, even highly concentrated character of Korean people, very emotional, hysterical, ultra-nationalistic.
Maybe the world seems to be plenty of ultra-nationalists and plenty of conflict among ethnic groups for your mind. It's very sad thing.
You said you are well educated. If its true, why don't you summarize your opinion more briefly? I can believe that you have some kind of high intelligence, but I cannot believe that you have mature mentality. You are so emotional and have very poor ability of self control.

Generally looking about your comments,
Most impressive point is that you didn't understand about my postings, very poor understandings. Yes, because I'm not native English speaker, there might be some misleading points in my postings. But it seems that there are other causes. Your ultra-nationalistic tendency, emotional mentality, etc prevented you to understand correctly.
Yes, you have mentined some correct historical facts. but nevertheless you couldn't reach correct conclusion because you didn't understand what's the problem.

About Han chinese like people,
You have made misunderstandings especialy this topic. First, Han chinese people isn't Han chinese. I use this term to refer people who lived in northern part of china in ancient time, with narrow long face. There were not concept such as "Han chinese" until mainland china was unified. In ancient time, there were plural ethnic groups with narrow long face in northeren part of china. and some of them went to west and became tibetian, some of them stay around Yellow river and made civilization. And some of them living in Shangdong~Jiangsu area went to middle ~ southern part of Korean peninsula and introduce rice breeding. And next, they went to Japan 2300~2400 years ago.
I didn't said that "Han chinese" came to southern part of Korean peninsula.
In Japan, its becoming well-established theory that major part of Japanese people were originated in northern part of china, coming to Japan via southern part of Korea. This theory called "Nijukozo-ron"(= double structer theory). If you don't know about this theory, it's becouse you live in U.S. and most of your knowledge are coming from literature of U.S.'s. If you want to know about ancient NE asian history, you should read Japanese, Chinese, Russian, Korean literature, at least Japanese's. In U.S. there are small numbers of scholars who attribute to study of ancient NE asia. Ex of famous person of U.S. sholar is C. Turner(reseach about tooth, sinodont/sundadont)
If you can read Japanese, I recommend you to search in Japanese website with keyword "Yayoi-jin".

About difference between modern Korean and ancient Korean migration to Japan,
You misunderstood at least two poins in this topic. First, I said the genes of modern Korean and first Korean migration to Japan ARE NOT SAME. I didn't say the genes of modern Korean and first Korean migration to Japan are different entirely.
Of course, genes of Korean and Japanese are closest, I know. I didn't say Korean and Japanese were totaly different.
Next, I didn't say that the Han chinese like people living in southern part of Korea were totally rearranged. They became important part of Korean gene stock. Their blood exists in your body and many Japanese people's body.
This large migration occured about 2300~2400 years ago. In this time, Manchurian people representated by Puyo had not come to Korean peninsula. The famous three kingdom period had began only in 3rd centry. I think Manchurian people go south to Korean peninsula taking advantage of confusion when the influence of Han dynasty decreased in Korean peninsula. I think Kaya people was very close to Japanese in genes and culture. But After Kogryo/Puyo came south, genes of southern Korean people were mixed and difference between Korean and Jananese became larger.
You seem to think that the ancesters of Korean were came from only northern part of asia, Manturia, Mongolia,etc(your favorite word Ural-Altai people). But, it's very sad to me to tell you so much Koreancentric guy such kind of thing. There are plural evidences that Korean are not consisted of Ural-Altaic people.
You said that in genetic research Korean and Japanese are closest each other. Yes, I know this study. But, Do you know the next closest people to Korean/Japanese? You might think Munchurian or Mongolian are the next closest. But the reality is not. The next closest people to Korean/Japanese are Tibetian in this study! How do you think?
And, do you know the south to north gradient of genetic distributions in Korean peninsula? For example, Blood type A are high frequency in south Korea and low freqency in north Korea. Its frequency reveals south to north gradient. And, Blood type A are also high in Japan, and in some tibetian tribes.
How about skull bone? There are some excavated skull bone that physical features reveals characteristic narrow long head estimeted in 3000~1600 years ago in east asia. The distribution is like this: west Japan, south Korea, Shandong province, Jiangsu province, and Qinghai province.
What do these facts want to say? Yes. They tell that in ancient time, there are original people of Tibetian, Korean, Japanese in northern part of China. They have narrow long face and blood type A. And they spread west and east. Then mixed with other people in each local area.

About Ural-Altaic language group,
First, you perfectly forget that you are arguing about language. If you want to say that there are one language group, you have to show evidence concerning language. But the only envidence you show was SVO structure in grammer. Of course I know about this. But many scholars think that its not enough evidence. Can you understand this? You just overemphasize small evidence as if it is determinant evidence.
You said in ancient time most of Ural-Altaic people were connected, might be one people. But even if it was true, how it can be the evidence of language group? If this kind of logic is accepted, you can say many many other things. You can say all mongoloid is one language group. You can also say all mongoloid and Caucasoid is one language group. Of course all human beings are one language group! Its very funny. You seems ultra-Koreancentric natinalist. But at the same time, you are very philanthropist!
You seems to dream some kind of "Grater Korean World" fantacy. Yes. All Ural-Altaic people were connected to Korea. Korea is the leader and authoritative ancestor of all Ural-Altaic people. Grater Korean World spread all Turkish, Mongolian, Tungus, Japanese world, almost 1/4^1/5 of Eurasian continent.... What a dangerous guy you are!
You said in old days Korean people ruled and occupied Manchuria, Siberia(might be Maritime province of Russia). And You also said that old Manchurian people shoul be called "Korean". These silly talks reveals that you don't know about history and you are ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra Koreancentrik nationalist!
Indeed, there are some Korean in northeastern China and Siberia nowadays. But they aren't the trace of ancient Grate Korean World. They just went into Manchuria from Korean peninsula during Qing dynasty. They are just newcomer in Manchuria.
Yes, I know some ultra-nationalistic Korean tend to think Puyo and other ancient Manchurian tribes as "Korean". But They are perfectly wrong. Nobody except Korean will accept such a crazy idea.
Then, what the real character of Puyo? They were their. They were individual thing. They didn't belong to neither China nor Korea, of coarse not Japanese. At least some people might think they were ancester of Manchus. I cannot deny this point of view entirely. But I think the truth is that they were just Tungus tribes, nothin else. Of coarse not Korean. Indeed, some groups of Puyo went south to Korean peninsula and joined to form Korean nationality. But main body of Puyo was individual.
olmy Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 19:02:53 (PDT)

Just wondering?

Does bulgogi and galbi come from Mongols and Turks?
Seung Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 18:00:02 (PDT)

To all,

Koreans can rightfully be called a nation.

But, Chinese are more a loosely termed amalgamation of many nations since the distant past.

That is why Chinese as whole, have less of the Classical Mongoloid features. There is Viet and Persian racial influences in the Han Chinese that distinguishes them from Coreans.
cantaloupe Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 17:59:03 (PDT)

Actually the biggest influences on Chinese culture by foreigners were the Persians other kindred people in Central Asia (Sogdians). The Tang Dynasty transformed Chinese culture overnight by adopting many facets of West Asian influences. The Chinese today would not like to acknowledge it, but it is part of our history and we can only look at the foreign names of Chinese musical instruments that betray its non-Chinese origins.

One general in the Tang, An Lushan was a Persian Sogdian. He revolted and the rebellion was crushed. Later, the Chinese retaliated by massacring many Persian, Sogdian and Arabs who had lived in China.

In Canton, its once large Persian and Arab merchant community was massacred by Huang Chao. But, Middle Eastern genes survived even among modern Canton people today (eg. Thalassemia Disease). They killed the men, but spared the women. I am not ashamed to admit it. Chinese history was not as clean and righteous as we were taught.
canton Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 17:56:45 (PDT)

tri, rare stuff:

the guy in #66 looks like the northwestern Chinese types (Hui, Uigur, Gansu Chinese, etc.). Big nose, big build, flowing beards, straight eyebrows, but with epicanthic eyefolds.
He doesn't look Caucasoid nor Middle Eastern. He looks Central Asian, northwestern Han types.

the guy in #110 looks neither northern Asian nor northern Han. He looks like a Yangtze Han Chinese, Cantonese or even Vietnamese. I see a lot of old men in the streets of Chinatowns who look like him.
blithe Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 17:50:59 (PDT)

One Korean Man,

I am sure you have read the article on Chinese people sailing to the Americas and perhaps meeting with the ancient Olmecs and Mayas.

What is so improper of the author (Dr. Michael Xu) and his works?

He is getting a lot of heat and controversy these days by the American scholars due to his theories. Why? Because it is apparent that it is becoming more truthful each day.

They would not want to see a Native American-Chinese alliance.

If they (white academia) can come up with hokus pokus theories (such as the one with Kinnewick Man), then why would they want to reject others' theories when the artifacts are there to prove it? Who really knows if the 30,000 year old Kinnewick Man found in North America is really of Caucasoid origins?

But, if you had looked at the ancient Olmec writings and compared it to the ancient Chinese Shang writing, you saw the exact identical symbols. Both peoples extensively produced jade.
The similarities are too striking to be considered mere coincidences.

It is just like the Korean connection with Altaic-Turkish languages. You cannot prove it, yet you cannot disprove it either.

The author of that website (Dr. Xu) is merely saying the Chinese may have visited the Americas and influenced (not colonized) the native Olmecs and others. Otherwise, you would have found Chinese-speaking American Indians today.

Just compare to the Chinese Shang prince Kija who went to Chosun (Korea) and influenced native Korean culture. Korea during the Tangun ear was mostly a hunter/gatherer and shamanistic society. But, with the arrival of the Shang culture (advanced bronze making) and Kija, the native Koreans took up Sinicized infrastructures and build themselves into a collective nation and identity, while their Tunguz cousins remained wandering and warring tribes. The Korean identity remained, but it had a boost from Chinese contact (Kija's reign).

The West doesn't want to see the truth and validity in Dr. Xu's research, although it is apparent that the truth hurts sometimes.
No hokus pokus Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 13:26:58 (PDT)

One Korean Man,

Don't be too sensitive when Chinese guys post topics relating to any matter Chinese. They are not out here to espew their Chinese superiority. I have not seen one here who claims that Koreans, Vietnamese, Japanese, etc. should rightfully belong to the Chinese nation, culture, blah, blah, blah...

On the otherhand, it is no joke that many other Asian cultures have been directly or indirectly influenced by the Han Chinese. China has had contact with literally all Asian nations and cultures even in the distant past.

I don't know why you get mad at the posters who are just going by what the scientific research says about world languages. It is mostly the Western academia who researches in such a systematic non-bias manner.

Let me ask: "What is this Korean eagerness to identify with Mongols, Turks and Manchus?" I have met Japanese and Turkish people who have no such zealous nationalism as do Korean people (esp. young Korean people). Japanese are guilty of their nationalistic past and want to be more international oriented (as young Europeans are today). The Turks are more religious than nationalistic people. They see themselves as Muslim, before Turk. They have anger for their government denying many basic Islamic facets of their traditions.

Koreans (not all, but a portion of them) see themselves with a grand vision that is totally imaginary. Let's not forget that those same Mongols and Manchus you worship had also killed and slaughtered in Korea. How brotherly is that? If you ask a Manchu person today what he or she is? Most certainly, they would respond: "I am a Chinese." Many Mongols today speak more Russian, than they even know of who Genghis Khan is.

It seems like a lot this Korean superiority-inferiority complex is directed at China and Japan. One, their ultimate nemesis will always be the Japan they want to destroy (but yet claim as kin). Second, they want to get away from everything that is Chinese influenced in their own culture so as to make them look stronger. So, they take up the "Altaic Empire" scheme.

Hey, without Chinese influence, the Korean nation and culture would not be as it is today. Do you think the Mongols could have helped them build Hyundais instead of riding ponies in the wilderness? Even the Japanese do not deny it (Chinese influence) with their own fate. Just look at the modern Mongols and other peoples of Siberia. They are on their way to full "Russianization" (through mixing, speaking their language, etc.). Why? Because they had no basis to counter Western imperialism due to their lack of civilized infrastructure and means of survival. Same thing happened to Native Americans.

When whites went to China, it was not like the Wild West. They negotiated with the Chinese on their terms and saw that the Chinese were just as civilized and highly sophisticated as their own nations.

It took the West 14 nations to fight China during the Boxer Rebellion. Now, the West is accepting China's proper role in Asia as well as the world.

Korea, Japan and Vietnam have their rights to be alarmed at an emerging China. But, it is to their best advantage to co-exist amicably or you make "enemies by treating one as."

Nationalism is long gone in the West. Even in Asia, I do not sense it. It is only on the Internet that I find it.
Asian relations Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 13:11:04 (PDT)

In bangla(indian):

baba = father
ab-ba= father
baf = father

am-ma = mother
mai = mother
ma = mother

Now this is very interesting *smile*
yayati Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 09:34:48 (PDT)

Hey Makadu,

The Mahabharata was written in 5000 B.C. this is the latest estimates by eminant historian.s

Do not read too much into western historians, we know max muller had an alterior motive for his Aryan Invasion Theory which has now been thoroughly debunked!

Dravidians ARE Aryans. It is our word meaning honourable person.

Bharati's consist of Nepalis, Bangladeshis, Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan and it may have included Tibet or knows ?

Wasnt the most holy peak in the indu pantheon in what is now tibet ?Yes.

Doesnt Burma, Thailand and Malaysia have some versian of the Ramayana?

Was the Buddha born in Bharat(india) ?

I would like to listen to your viewpoints. Do you even consider us Asian ?
yayati Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 08:23:47 (PDT)

To any Asian who doubted Jose Rizal:

"Our Myths and legends are fast disappearing. We are losing these stories because of our preference for fairy tales from the western world. If we allow these stories to disappear, not only do we deprive ourselves, but we also rob our children and the next generations of the truth. The Philippines had its own rich culture and heritage until the Spaniards came to steal our land, enslave our people and damage our culture."

- Jose Rizal 189?
Rizaliana Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 07:21:25 (PDT)

About that Indonesian story,

In South East Asia country, The virginity is the most valueble thing in girls. Priceless crown for the girls.

Back to May' 98, Many girls and women got raped. And many of them got pregnant and need to gave birth to unwanted baby. Most of them are chinese.

Many Chinese Family who has a daugther/s, quickly have to run their daugthers out of country. Anywhere, the closest to Malaysia to further as Canada and USA. Still got difficulty in Airport, need to payed fiscal 5 million Rupiah ( about $500) perperson.
5 million Rupiah is alot money for Indonesia. Many family can't affort it, so they need to cancelled run the daugthers out just hide somewhere that they think saved. Specially when that brutally happend. The price for every things going up like crazy.Just to buy a dozen of Eggs is like cost $20.

Well,My goodness its over. But for sure everythings still fresh in their minds. The trauma will never go away. Specially to those girls and family that be the victims. Some of them became lost their minds and be resident of mentality hospital.

That was always fresh in my mind.
Thanks god is over now, wish that never happend again.
Faby - Survivor victim Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 03:01:39 (PDT)

The Filipino language (Tagalog?) sounds more like Spanish to me!!!
Yellow Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 00:49:00 (PDT)

Miyagi,

The Hans are not Tunguz. Maybe there were some Tunguz who had joined to form the Han as we know it.

The Hans (the real ones) came from northwest China. Their closest neighbors were the Huns (Turkic people), the Yueh-chi (an Iranian speaking race) and the Tibetans. They must have mixed with these groups before becoming one "Han" group. Later, they pushed east into the lands of China as we know it. They later absorbed more Yueh (Viet) and Dong-i (Tunguz) tribes.
How the Han became? Friday, June 07, 2002 at 23:51:25 (PDT)

rare stuff,

the Turkic tribes that migrated to Turkey most certainly had once lived in the vicinity near China (Ordos valley of Mongolia). They most likely came from the same stock as the "Tu-chueh". The ancient Turks and Han Chinese have fought as well as interacted with each other since the beginning of Chinese history. It would not be surprising if both races had once looked the same due to the historical interactions. Turks invaded China, and the Han Chinese counter attacked the Turkic steppes in Mongolia too. Then, you had people voluntarily crossing the Great Wall to join the other sides and switch allegiances.

It would not be surprising if there were Han Chinese components among the Oguz as well as Sogdians and Iranians (before they had left Central Asia to migrate to Iran and Anatolia). "Turk", like Han Chinese is not a race. It is a cultural identity. One is not necessarily born into it nor trace genetic descent from it. You are drawn into the nation and become adopted by it.

A "Tu-chueh" camp had been recently unearthed in western Mongolia. The khagan (khan) "Bilga" was the most famous of this Tu-chueh (Turkish) confederation at that time contemporary to Chinese Tang Dynasty. Many Chinese artifacts and written scrolls were found among the settlements (suggesting a sizeable Chinese presence among them). It is said that Chinese and Sogdian merchants maintained the economy and built semi-cities and palaces for the Tu-chueh (Turks). They married Tu-chueh women and became Tu-chueh (Turk) themselves. Later, the Uigurs pushed them out of modern Mongolia and on into Central Asia and Iran.
tri Friday, June 07, 2002 at 23:32:31 (PDT)

TSJ,

the term "race" is not merely biological. It can also mean a certain type of mentality or body-type within a biologically homogenous population.The social aspect of shaping the identity of a race is very noticeable.In this sense races only exist in the colloquial language.
Nobody knows exactly when two genepools split-it's also just for the statistics.Race in the biological sense is rather a process than a standard.

If you mention the definition of e.g. Han race this is a political topic,not really biological.Instead you have the choice to speak of proto-Han ,Han of this or that century and place etc
rare stuff Friday, June 07, 2002 at 18:19:55 (PDT)

To, hummer;

Well, your views on the vietnamese language is interesting. Well, your views are a bit insulting, especially comparing it to an animal grunting.

http://www.thingsasian.com/goto_article/article.779.html

That is a link which kinds of explains the complexity of the vietnamese language. The vietnamese langauge is distinct to all others, it may hold slight influences though. The language was once written in chinese characters, but as the language proved too much to be accurate to be described by the chinese characters, Chu Nom was created to better fit the spoken language, then Quoc Nhu was adopted because of it's more simple nature. In that site it describes a bit on the interaction and experience a person has of vietnamese language when visiting vietnam and living with the vietnamese people.

de Rhodes' description of the language was "resembles the singing of birds" and he thought "When I heard people speak, especially the women, I despaired of ever being able to learn the language." And it was known that MANY french people would live in vietnam because of love for the beauty, these are just normal citizens who came from their own will. They wanted the language to be of their own and to be the same as the vietnamese, hence the reason for the costly wars. The french didn't have money to finance the wars, but still they fought for it, they were given one billion US dollars by the US government to fight. Of course they were forced out when the vietnamese won the war against the french forces. The french at that time seem to love the vietnamese language and the vietnamese people, they have never seem to deny the beauty of the language and people. They accepted the people in catholic schools, sending them to the universities in france. I know many viets who were living in france without discrimination, when in other areas differences were pounced on with great vigor.

But that's the views of the french people and de Rhode himself.

General Viet Friday, June 07, 2002 at 16:36:26 (PDT)

gk,

The reason the brutality in Indonesia is so well documented is simply because the perps are Muslim. If we are to judge every nation by the actions of a few then there few races as evil as the Germans, Serbs, Americans ( remeber the Native American?) Israelis etc. etc. etc. Quit advertising your bigotry and myopic world view.
Turk Friday, June 07, 2002 at 15:39:25 (PDT)

Islands of controversy

ASUW: Pacific Islanders seek autonomy from the Asian Student Commission and incorrect labeling.

Adam Karlin
The Daily
For some Filipino students, filling out the line "ethnicity" on an application can fill them with a sense of ethnic pride - or a twisted compromise in morals.
Filipinos, like Tongans, Samoans, Chamorros, Paluans, Polynesians, and literally dozens of other groups from the island chains of the Pacific, must straddle the razor's edge of ethnic definition when they mark "Asian/Pacific Islander" on a form as their heritage.

The question they ask themselves when they fill out these forms is: "Which one am I?"

...

The debate has been splitting both ASC and groups like FASA, and will not be resolved until the issue of the commission is brought to the BOC sometime at the end of this month.

Adam Karlin article Friday, June 07, 2002 at 15:06:28 (PDT)

To, Hummer;

Actually try to find translation of a vietnamese paragraph into english. The vietnamese will be MUCH shorter, nothing long. But what i notice is that sometimes when things are translated in a speech (in front of a crowd) it seems that things are dragged out long compared to the english translation of the original text. But for truth, it's not even elongated. Not even a bit, but because the translators leave out alot making the english translation seem shorter making the original speech sound longer when in fact the translation leaves out many details. So when you hear a vietnamese person or a thai speak, it's not because ten syllables is the equivalent to an english syllable for a word or meaning, but because when translated a lot is lost or the small details are left out. And the blurry tonal prononciations, well that's what you hear, you don't speak the language and you shouldn't know if it's supposed to be pronounced that way or not, so how do you know if it's blurred? In vietnamese a change in tone, even a SMALL change, can produce a whole new word. The deepness and emphasis on a word is key to producing a word, and the mistake on the tone can produce an entirely different word of meaning. Like the words for lady and dad. Drag the words out deeply and you'll get lady, go straight forward and go smooth then you get dad. What you say is not true, as a blurred pronounciation would result in no meaning.

Well try finding a vietnamese poem, then an english translation. Read the translation, then get a vietnamese to translate it. You'll see the difference right away. The english translation is longer. But the english translation from a vietnamese will be shorter but not as clear because of the barriers (like some words not existing in english or an english word doesn't exist in vietnamese). And when speaking and having a translator, vietnamese will sound longer, but ONLY because the translator is leaving out a lot of detail explaining it in a shorter way leaving out the necessary elements for emotional effect.

Rediculing a language is foolish. It's like having an englishmen make fun of the chinese language. It's your opinion, i respect that, but if i said that all chinese people get their names from dropping pots and pans, you'll also be offended, but through my opinion it sounds like pots and pans.

Grunting and pots and pans, what's the difference? Nothing, your still making fun of or insulting another language for being different, when in fact you have NO idea of the mechanics involved with the language itself.

Like that, i revealed two flaws from your observation:

1. on the elongated speeches which is not true at all if you understand the actual meaning of the speech without stranslation ;and

2. the blurred pronounciation which is also not true, or else there would be NO meaning because of the tonal precision needed to create an actual word.
General Viet Friday, June 07, 2002 at 14:47:18 (PDT)

boo boo

"If you insist on maintaining your egotistical and radical views, you might as well draw a swatzika on your forehead. It is very distaseful to me that you have the nerve to claim things that you NEVER contributed to, embraced or truly understand. Please do not insult other peoples with your garbage in the name of China. I, as a Chinese national, respect the cultures of our neighbors and other nations and hope you would too. Please do not identify yourself as chinese!!!!i suggest you identify yourselves as what you really are: nazis!!!"

Well said!
Weimar Chinese Friday, June 07, 2002 at 14:08:55 (PDT)

Hummer,

I personally do not find Vietnamese and Thai language to be very pleasant to listen to either. But that is only my own opinion based on the fact that I'm much more use to the sounds of English and Chinese. We all have different tastes as to what is pleasant or unpleasant. I notice that many people here (and on other sites around the internet) whose native language is a non-tonal language (often Korean) are making derogatory remarks about the tonal languages such as Vietnamese and Chinese. Well that is just their opinion and they don't realize how annoying narrow-minded they themselves sound when they say things like this. It's not as if any language in this world is inherently better or worse sounding than any other.
Elisa Friday, June 07, 2002 at 12:28:18 (PDT)

to TSJ:

its an intersting question about the date of the most recent common ancestor of the various races:

actually, according to most recent research on human DNA, modern human beings originated in the African continent not too long ago (maybe < 200 000 years ago), and then spread to all other continents in the world.

in fact there were other 'hominid' species living in Europe and Asia during this time (ever heard of the Neanderthals), but it seems they were replaced by modern human beings coming out of Africa. There is some debate however on whether the modern humans mixed with these other hominid species.

the DNA studies all show that the oldest human populations are in Africa, implying that Africa is the original homeland of the human species. Humans had inhabited Africa for many thousands of years until a small number dispersed to Eurasia (Europe and Asia) and also to Australia/Oceania and the Americas probably no longer than 100 000 years ago.

In terms of the human settlement of Asia, it seems that there were generally speaking two migration routes... one from East Africa through India and SE Asia to NE Asia, and another from West Asia (west of Central Asia) to Central Asia & Northeast Asia. Southeast Asian populations seem to be derived from the first migration route, while northeast Asians may be descended from mixture of both northern and southern migrations.

As all of these events took place tens of millenia ago, there is basically no archaelogical evidence for them; only evidence is from the DNA of living humans.
ABC who knows China Friday, June 07, 2002 at 11:49:31 (PDT)

Makadu:

That is not Me who posed the theory. I've just pasted what i read. However it is debatable I think.

http://www.trinicenter.com/FirstChinese.htm

Blacks in China Friday, June 07, 2002 at 10:15:56 (PDT)

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