Comparing Asian Nationalities | Asian American Poll

COMPARING ASIAN NATIONALITIES
(Updated Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:39:09 AM to reflect the 100 most recent valid responses.)

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Ming China finally responded to King Sonjo's plea for help in July 1592, by sending a woefully inadequate 5,000 man division into Choson. After crossing the Yalu River near Uiju, the token force bravely marched southeastward toward P'yong'yang. General Konishi led his forces in a single night battle that swiftly decimated the entire Chinese division. Basking in his victory over the Chinese, Konishi eagerly anticipated the arrival of reinforcements sailing up the Taedong River so he could begin the actual invasion of China. He was not strong enough to move north without them. When he finally learned of the crushing defeat of Japanese shipping at sea and that reinforcements would never come, he realized there would be no invasion of China. He sat as far north as the Japanese would ever get. The Japanese army was spread across north-central Choson at the time and held a strong enough position they could wait for further orders. As they waited through the autumn of 1592 with no word from Japan, supplies ran low and their position became more precarious. Worse, the Chinese were concentrating a strong, well-equipped army north of the Yalu River.

In January 1593, General Li Ju-sung led fifty-thousand battle-hardened Chinese troops, fresh from subduing a Mongol rebellion in Manchuria, across the frozen Yalu River in the dead of winter. This Chinese army, unlike its ill-fated predecessors, marched directly to P'yong'yang and successfully drove General Konishi out of the city. General Konishi withdrew his battle-worn troops south to Seoul, pursued all the way by General Li. Choson's citizen guerrillas constantly harassed the starving Japanese soldiers, who were taxed nearly to the limit of their endurance. The fighting withdrawal halted at Pyokchegwan, just north of Seoul. Though Chinese and Japanese troops fought pitched battles outside the city walls, no large-scale attacks occurred on Seoul itself. Within the city however, Japanese troops killed many people and burned much of the capital, including the Kyongbok Palace, the Ch'angdok Palace, and numerous other structures that dated from the beginning of the Yi dynasty.

Japanese and Chinese troops fought to a standstill in a fierce battle at Pyokchegwan. Local guerilla forces under Kwon Yul, anticipating a joint attack on Seoul in concert with General Li Ju-sung's army, took up positions at Tohyang-san, the mountain redoubt south of Seoul on the north bank of the Han River near Haengju. The Chinese never arrived. General Li Ju-sung had pulled his army back to P'yong'yang for a rest, leaving the guerrillas isolated. Nevertheless, Kwon Yul's small force successfully held their ground in the bloody fighting that raged around Haengju. The Japanese repeatedly sent out large-scale assaults against Tohyang-san, but failed to dislodge Kwon's guerrillas. When the defenders ran out of arrows, women in the fortress helped gather stones that were thrown against the Japanese troops. Admiral Yi Pin resupplied the Tohyang-san fortress during the fighting by sailing up the Han River in time to deliver more arrows. Kwon Yul's guerilla force successfully held their ground in a campaign that is remembered as one of Korea's three great triumphs against the Japanese during the war.

The Japanese position gradually went from bad to worse. With no hope of resupply by sea, pinned down in Seoul by continuously mounting pressure from the Chinese army and local guerrillas, with food supplies cut off and his forces now reduced by nearly one third from desertion, disease and death, Konishi was compelled to sue for peace. General Li Ju-sung offered General Konishi a chance to negotiate an end to the hostilities. When negotiations got underway in the spring of 1593, China and Choson agreed to cease hostilities if the Japanese would withdraw from Choson altogether. General Konishi had no option but to accept the terms, but he would have a hard time convincing Hideyoshi he had no other choice.

Unbroken in spirit, but physically weakened by hunger to the point they were no longer an effective fighting force, the Japanese army departed Seoul in late May 1593, one year from the date of their invasion at Pusan. As the remnants of Konishi's division moved out of Seoul, Chinese troops marched southward from P'yong'yang in a screening formation to cover the Japanese and ensure their departure. The Chinese intended to prevent them from regrouping and again attacking to the north. Choson guerrillas joined in the pursuit by continually harassing and attacking Japanese soldiers throughout their arduous retreat to the port of Pusan and the southeastern coast of Kyongsang Province. Following the recapture of Seoul, the Chinese commander Li Ju-sung observed that,

"...the country all about was lying fallow, and a great famine stared the Koreans in the face....the dead bodies of its victims lay all along the road."

Excerpts from the Imjin Wars Monday, June 24, 2002 at 00:30:41 (PDT)

To all the Chinese, Coreans and Japanese,

You are more alike than not. Yet, there is a sense of superiority complex you all have, especially Coreans and Japanese.

The Altaic theory was spewed forth by Western pseudo-scientists who have no any idea of racial origins.

Prior to that, Koreans and Japanese were more connected to China. Coreans have long maintained that their founding father was a Chinese (Kija), and rightfully so since DNA confirms it.

But, Westerners don't want to see Coreans and Japanese become fully integrated with China, so they come up with some hokus pokus idea that Coreans and Japanese were from the same racial origins as Turks! C'mon gimme a break! Even the Turks themselves have no genetic connection to Mongolians (their closest linguistic brothers).

Now that truth has come to light (the genetic testing), I want the long feuding 3 brotherly group to lead the way for Asians. Remember that the Vietnamese, Thais, Cambodians and Laotians are also your brothers (courtesy of the same genetic testing).

So, the Chinese assertion that all Asians came from the same motherland (China) is not without basis.

Don't be ashamed of who you really are!
we all came from the same fathers Sunday, June 23, 2002 at 20:29:17 (PDT)

do you know?

I think those Vietnamese you see in the Chinatowns are ethnic Chinese. You also find Thais and Cambodians too, and they also are most likely ethnic Chinese.

Another reason is because most Koreans and Japanese have their own ethnic towns and centers. And, Vietnamese food is not too much different from the Chinese. They often use the same ingredients and spices, so it is easier for them to buy things around a Chinatown than they would a Koreantown or Japantown.
Try visiting Little Saigon in L.A. Sunday, June 23, 2002 at 14:03:32 (PDT)

In Korea and Japan,

There is no remnant traces of nomadism (a universal trait among Altaic peoples).
Even in modern Turkey (where most people live agriculturally), there exists remnant Turkoman nomads (called Yorulmek, or "Yoruk", walking nomads) in the central mountains. Those are reputed to be the true "Turks" and their nomadic lifestyles and Central Asian features are well preserved.

Even the Korean words for horse and sheep is derived from the Chinese and not from nomadic Turko-Mongolian peoples. That tells you that the myth of Korean ancestors being horseriding shepherds is baloney.

First of all, nomads cannot transform themselves to being farmers overnight. Most cannot do it. In Turkey, most of the agricultural people were peasants who lost their European languages and Christian religion. The invading Turks from Central Asia got off their ponies and became sultans (kings) and beys (governors). They were too small to change the genes of the locals, but through Islamic conversion, the people switched sides and allegiances slowly with the Turkic language as one unifying factor. That is how religion and language can change easily, but not genes.

In Koreans case, they claim to be a homogenous group. Now, if they were pure Altaics as many of them claim, then why is there no remnant trace of nomadism? Why were they so susceptible to Chinese cultural influences unlike the Turko-Mongol nomads who resisted Chinese encroachment throughout their history?

Nomads detest the harsh and back-breaking life of farming.
There are no known nomads in Korea Sunday, June 23, 2002 at 14:00:12 (PDT)

>>>The modern China now is shaped with mix race of the manchurian and the Han people, thus it would make it difficult for a person to determine what origin he/she came from... Only during the first few reigns can one be able to determine if he/she is a Han or Manchurian. Therefore, this is a mood point to consider.<<<

There might have been intermarriage within the bannermen ranks between Manchu bannermen and Han bannermen. But, once in domination, the Manchus forbid the ruling Manchus from intermarrying with native Han. Most Han wouldn't want to mix with barbarian tribes in the first place. That is why there is part of Beijing that is called the "Forbidden City." That part of the city was where all the imperial Manchus lived.

Even after the formation of the Republic of China in 1911, many local Chinese were able to point out the Manchus from the Han and took them out to the streets to be slaughtered. Many married Han to avoid the stigma of being Manchu. That is why it is only during the Chinese Communists, that ethnic Manchus are slowly coming out of the closet to reclaim their Manchu ethnic status. I heard many stories where grandchildren would not even know of their status until their dying grandfathers or grandmothers told them of their Manchu imperial or bannermen status before passing away.
Manchus were too small to affect the Han people's genes Sunday, June 23, 2002 at 13:50:13 (PDT)

I once used to be afraid of Moslems.

But, coming back from vacation in Iran, I have changed my mind. Everywhere in Iran (Tehran, Isfahan, Hamadan, Shiraz, Tabriz) I met young people just like us. They are fair and open minded. They want the same thing as we want.

And, I have seen how much "eyes" I get from the young Iranian women. I have gotten some looks from Persian ladies where I live in the USA. But, in Iran, it is more than I could handle. They love Jackie Chan movies over there. I mean the ones shot and filmed in Hong Kong and not the ones he made here. American films are still banned there. Persian women gave me the attraction that no white girl in any city of the USA would ever give me. I know this and ain't no lying.

I could have converted to Islam and got me a lot of those beautiful girls as wives but I just couldn't do it.

I had to fly through a third country (China) in order to visit Iran. They don't give visas to visitors flying from the USA because of the problems going on. But, Iran is a very beautiful and scenic country. It is worth it to check it out for cultural and women reasons, rather than for political reasons.

I no longer hate Moslems as much as the white people of USA hates me and my kind.

How white girls in the USA diss me is also how I feel about them.
I have always loved Persian women Saturday, June 22, 2002 at 21:30:56 (PDT)

I don't know where to put this, but I want to take this moment to ask God to give Vincent Chin and his mom, Lily Chin their proper place up there.

Mrs. Lily Chin died last week.

I am sure she died with much pain and heart brokenness after suffering the trauma of her son's death for so many decades. She had returned to live in China the last decade of her life. But, she had to return to America when her health deteriorated. Vincent was only her adopted son, but in our Chinese culture it has little meaning. We are all one nation and from the same family.

Her most memorable words were: "Although we have different skin colors, our heart is the same."

But, what kind of heart did those evil white jurors have when they acquitted two white trash racists of a heinous and brutal murder?

They had to fight 2 guys against one Chinese guy who was just a bespectacled engineer with a baseball bat? Why can't they fight like real men?

Vincent Chin's last words (as he lay dying in the hospital bed in the arms of an aunt) was: "It was not fair."

Vincent's parents believed in the American Dream. Vincent did much for the city of Detroit through his works and projects. His father had fought in World War II in the US Army. It amounted to nothing.

The justice system told us that people can get off the hook if they killed Asians, especially young and promising Asian men.

I believe it is still like that. It is all a joke. I don't want to be governed by the white man's laws. It is not designed to work for people like me.

Remember, it could happen to anyone whether you are Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Filipino, Indian, Arab, etc.

We are living in a dog eat dog world. We are living in a lost forest (racism in USA), and it is best we stick together proud and tough to find our way out of this forest.

We all can fight it, if we stick together!!!
United Asians Saturday, June 22, 2002 at 21:21:43 (PDT)

The Zhuang are part of the Han race and not Viet race. They are the largest numerical minority group in China today.

Zhuang language is classified as Sino-Tibetan, while Vietnamese is classified as an independent lingua group (just like Japanese and Korean are). Zhuang are the real Yueh tribes as we know them. That is not to say that Vietnamese are not Yueh, for I am sure the ruling families must have been Yueh while the peasantry may have been mixed Yueh/Malayan.

All Chinese scholars agree that this Zhuang minority group in Guangxi province are the living descendants of the Yueh tribes in history.

Yueh and Han are really the same, but one got more advanced culturally and became more aggressive.

I am of the opinion that the Yueh may have also at one time lived in northern China but as they went south, they assimilated more and more Malay types so that is why the genetic composure of south China today is still heterogenous. But, recently haplotype testing reveal a comformity (paternal DNA) between north and south. 95% of all Han Chinese have the Haplotype 7 Y Chromosome. We can safely call it an exclusively Han Chinese genetic marker.
Han and Yueh are the same way back Saturday, June 22, 2002 at 21:08:12 (PDT)

One of you mentioned that the Arabs did not burn all the pre-Islamic books and libraries of Iran?

You can bet on it that they did. They were more tolerant in North Africa and the Roman domains because the occupants were Semitic themselves and of the Christian faith. In Islam, Christians are also people of the book and one God. But, in Iran, the pre-Islamic religion was Zoroastrian. It was regarded as an infidel religion by the invading Arabs.

Historians today know so little of Iran's pre-Islamic past because the Arabs and their caliphs had no interest in preserving infidels works and promoted no other book other than the Holy Qur'an. The later Iranians who converted to Islam was even more fanatical in destroying any trace of their infidel ancestors works and idolatry. Just look at the Buddhist caves in Xinjiang? The local peoples were converted to Islam forcibly and forcibly adopted the Turkic languages. Their Muslim children took up swords and scratched out the Buddhist art painted in the caves by their true Iranian, Tocharian, Sogdian and Tang Chinese ancestors.
The Iranian pre-Islamic dynasties (Arsacids and Sassanians) of Iran are vaguely known today. Their records come mainly from Greek, Roman, Armenian and Chinese sources.

The Arabs not only burned down all the pre-Islamic books, texts and libraries, but they also killed and raped innumerable people in Iran. The genetic studies confirm that people of west Iran is more Semitic paternally than the Iranians of the east. If not by rape, then how did Aryans come to look more Arabic looking today? Iranians today look more Arab than they once looked more French or Italian. A lot of the (Sassanian)Iranian nobility and other people of monetary means had no other choice but to migrate through Central Asia and into China. They came with their Prince Peruz who later became a general at the Tang court. These Persian migrants introduced new music and many plants/fruits not native to China. The watermelon (xigua, "western melon") is one such import.

All Chinese today may have had a Sassanian ancestor who fled to Tang China from those Arabs. It is in our blood.
The true Iranians fled to China long ago Saturday, June 22, 2002 at 20:59:33 (PDT)

Yes, the Koreans are our brothers and cousins. We can't deny it.

But, if we had bothered to study their history, we can see that this flow of genes may not have been voluntary or peaceful.

True, that many Han Chinese had entered Corea peacefully during the Shang, Yen, and Han eras. But, some also came by force.

Worst was the Sui-Tang eras. For nearly over one hundred years, Chinese acted as aggressors in the peninsula. For over 35 years, Tang ruled over large parts of Corea (the old Koguryo and Paekche regions). And, they were not well liked by the natives who later drove them out with the aid of Shilla.

Then, when the Mongols were being driven out of China, the Red Turbans (a Chinese rebel group affiliated with the Ming resistance) chased the fleeing Mongols and spilled over into neighboring Koryo kingdom (who took in those fleeing Mongols). It took Koryo over a decade to drive out those Red Turbans from the towns of northern Corea. They had destroyed many, many towns and pillaged everywhere they went. The new Ming Dynasty had also asked them to stop their activities as Emperor Zhu Yuanzhang sought to become allies with the new Corean Yi Dynasty. Yi later overthrew Koryo.

Then the Imjin Wars of the late 16th cent. has bore an emotional and psychological mark on Japanese-Corean relations up to now. The invading Japanese had killed and genocided close to 1/5th of Corea's populace during those 15 years of warfare. The Ming Chinese armies came in large numbers during the second invasion by Hideyoshi and they drove them out. But, they stayed on for over 6 years in Corea and even Corean history mentions the Ming troops as sacking and pillaging towns even after the war was over. But, the Corean court worshipped Ming Dynasty. They was the Ming as liberators and asked the locals to provide food and shelter for the "liberators and big brothers." Since so many Corean men of fighting age had died in this war, what do you expect when a widow is asked to provide shelter to another man? That is why Coreans so hate Japanese to this day. Because they know what conflicts with them had caused to the Corean nation and family. Koreans and Japanese are close to each other, but their conflicts have nearly destroyed one another, mostly with Coreans suffering irreparably.

I am proud to be Chinese, but although Coreans are our closest genetic brothers (82% of them paternally), they are still a distinct people with their own identity. The genes they share with us may not have been received voluntarily in the past. Most are through peaceful intermixture (pre-Tang), but some of it violent too (Tang and later eras).

Japanese people are also close to us, with 45% of them also having the Haplotype 7 Y Chromosome paternal DNA. It most likely is through Yayoi and other later Chinese settling in Japan (as scholars, musicians, merchants and political advisors).

Let us try to truly understand Corean psyche and history, and Coreans should not be ashamed of their Chinese connections historically, culturally and yes, even genetically. The past between us was beautiful and it was ugly too. But, after all the hate, we are still from the same. We can't change the past, but we can make the future better and more knowledgeable.
Chinese brother of Coreans and all other Asians Saturday, June 22, 2002 at 20:44:38 (PDT)

k,

There does exist a West Asian influence on the Han Chinese genetically, but there also exists some among the Iranians themselves. If Iranians were so pure Aryans as they claim, why are so many of them with hair color jet black as that found among the Chinese?

Little is known that the Mongols had a policy of transferring native talent (administrators, troops, artisans, scientists, doctors, etc.) from one part of the empire to another. The Song Chinese elite was distrusted so they got transferred and shipped out of China to the Middle East and Russia. Mongols were too barbaric and uncouth to govern those lands, and they could not trust the local Moslems and Europeans, so they utilized the Chinese to provide cultural and political infrastructure (particularly in Iran) as well as tax collecting.

Many Song and Jin Chinese had been resettled in other parts of the Mongol empire, in particular the Ilkhan Dynasty in Iran and the Golden Horde in Russia. How often do we know that one of Hulagu Khan's leading general in Iran and Arabia conquests was a Chinese man (General Guo Gan)? His siege crew and infantry was influential in knocking down the walls of Hashashin (Assassins) in Iran, Baghdad, and Damascus. It was the Chinese who helped those Mongol horsemen defeat the Persians and Arabs. Of course, the Chinese troops serving were allowed their pick of native women. Need I also mention what happened in Russia and Hungary? It was the first time that Chinese rockets and cannons and other firearms were used in Europe. Chinese firearms were used against the German knights in Poland and Hungary as recorded in the Battle of Szajo. Chinese merchant quarters were found in Moscow and Novgorod. They were probably tax collectors for the Tatar Mongols who remained in the steppes of Kazakhstan. And, any Russian family who could not afford the tax or wanted to avoid it would let these tax collectors have their pick of the most beautiful daughters to take away. It is more worst when the Mongols themselves came to accompany the tax collectors. They would ride into a Russian town and round up all the men so that they would pay their taxes in one part of the town. Once the money was collected, the Mongols would lock them up and ride into town drunk. They would rape the local women while the Russian men can't do nothing but be locked up and angry while their women were knocked up by Asians. Need I explain why some Russian, Ukrainian and other Eastern Europeans have somewhat feint Mongol and Chinese features? The truth is too ugly to bear.

We just don't get to read about it because Western historians and scholars just don't like the idea of Asian men mixing with Caucasoid women. Well, it has happened and there is no pure white race just as there is no pure Chinese race.

All the white people who hate on Asians, might take a time machine and go back to the past and found out that you might have one drop of Asian blood infused into you!!! Remember, you whites taught us that one drop makes you whole!!!
Asian Races Saturday, June 22, 2002 at 20:23:19 (PDT)

To all here,

Professor Michael Xu is a leading researcher on the exploding evidence that ancient Chinese of the Shang Dynasty had made their way to the Americas and influenced Olmec culture.

He is under a lot attack, for the simple fact that people in the Americas don't want native indigenous peoples to link up with Asians.

They know the Asian potential and threat.

They can't imagine what would happen if all the Native Americans, Central Americans and Mexicans start reclaiming an "Asian image and identity."

Please read about his ordeal:

http://www.taiwaninfo.org/info/sinorama/en/8605/605006e1.html

I have emailed the guy and he is putting up a lot of crap from the US academia pseudo-scholars. If they can make a wild and invalid claim that a white man (Kenniwick Man) had existed in the Americas, why can't Michael Xu's overwhelming evidence be taken seriously? We all know now that there is no conclusive DNA to prove whether or not Kenniwick Man was Caucasoid or not? He might have been Polynesian as even the Ainus of Japan seem to be now through genetic testing.

The white man has usurped the Americas, and he will not want to give it back to its original owners.

Think about it..........
United Asians Saturday, June 22, 2002 at 20:05:53 (PDT)

I Ching,

The Chinese presence in Korea predates the Yayoi (2,300 years ago). In northern Korea, the material artifacts had a sudden change from one of Siberian/Shamanistic to one of advanced iron, bronze and farming culture identical to that of the Huang Ho region. This took place 3,000 years ago (1,000 BC). The Kija Chosun legend does not sound so much like a legend afterall based on these archaeological facts. There had to be some type of Chinese migration going on to stimulate such a drastic cultural change on the peninsula. They were not great enough to overcome the language, but it is certain they became or took some elite position culturally, politically and militarily.
Asian Races Saturday, June 22, 2002 at 18:20:24 (PDT)

I Ching:

"the theory that the defeated Yayoi of the Yangtze River area left as refugees from the invading Yue Cantonese from the south"

i readed the link you provided. Which part was it mentioned the yueh who invade Wu are cantonese?

To set it straight, the Yueh who defeat Wu locate aroung Zhejiang Province.
FOOLISH Saturday, June 22, 2002 at 09:43:49 (PDT)

I Ching:

"the theory that the defeated Yayoi of the Yangtze River area left as refugees from the invading Yue Cantonese from the south"

i readed the link you provided. Which part was it mentioned the yueh who invade Wu are cantonese?
FOOLISH Saturday, June 22, 2002 at 09:41:49 (PDT)

"There you go off again without knowing any Koreans or japanese people. For your information, Koreans and the Manchurians ARE related people..."

it's pretty easy to understand why some (most?) koreans like to believe they have manchurian blood. the reason being that the manchurians had actually conquered the hans and the whole china, and ruled it for hundreds of years. this certainly would make the koreans feel better about themselves.

Hoklo Taiwanese Friday, June 21, 2002 at 22:54:50 (PDT)

To, Tri;

"It is quite obvious that the Chinese, Cambodians, Viets and Tibetans do share the same fathers as attested to DNA and their common tonal languages."

Ummm, obvious? Do you know how they tests these DNA tests? They take about ten people of each ethnic then test them for the specific DNA. C'mon if you test for even more specifically we'll probably all go back to africa. Plus, ALL of these tests have not been research done by the gov't on a mass scale. I DON'T think 10 koreans, and having 9 of them found with a specific gene means that 90% of ALL koreans have that gene. It is for sure inaccurate. So don't refer to them as they are accurate.
Lo Friday, June 21, 2002 at 21:39:43 (PDT)

To, Just Curious;

You can find more information on the other theory of vietnamese origin by searching up; Son Vi Culture, Hoa Binh Culture, Dong Son Culture etc... Those are the main breakups of the eras of the Red River Delta's people. They were around at about 21 000 BC, and was very wide spread but was mainly populated in the Red River Delta. The Yueh moved down to Guangdong, they were SAID to have moved down a bit, but no ACTUAL proof was set, only conclusions from chinese scholars. But the delta people are proved by archaelogy, the feets bone struture of the delta people are said to be IDENTICAL to the modern viets.

Check it out yourself.
Yup Friday, June 21, 2002 at 21:36:39 (PDT)

I want the Coreans, Chinese, Japanese and Viets on this site to just relax, sit down and accept the facts that we all are from the same. Haplogroup 7 Y chromosome (passed paternally) is probably an exclusively Chinese haplotype chromosome as almost all (95%) of them have it. Coreans, Japanese, Cambodians, Laotians, Tibetans and Vietnamese also have it overwhelmingly.

Instead of fighting to see petty differences, why can't we unite on this very basic genetic fact?

I too admire what the Huns, Mongols and Ottomans done in Europe and the white man's psyche. But, their times have come and passed. They are for the most part too small or died off to enjoy their past glories.

It is our turn now. We (United Asians) will bring forth the future Attilas, Genghis Khans, Sultan Suleimans, etc... The sword has passed to our hands. We, the East Asians, descendants of the Yellow Emperor (China) will bring forth the final destruction of the white racism and white purity. First, we have to sit down and accept our newly discovered "genetic" interrelatedness as well as our long-acknowledged cultural interrelatedness. Yes, we all came from rice and wheat farmers. But, a farmer can always throw down his plow and bear up arms.

Here in America, it is ample opportunity for us to get to know each other in ways that is not possible in our old countries. We can now mix back our true original genes together and pose a force to reckon with.
United Asia Friday, June 21, 2002 at 21:17:46 (PDT)

so,

Quit hiding from the facts.

The Chinese used in genetic studies are unrelated individuals from many provinces (north, south, east, west). Their DNA is used by many for their studies (yes, even including the Korean ones). IT SAYS CLEARLY THAT 95% OF ALL CHINESE (NORTH AND SOUTH) SHARE THE HAPLOGROUP 7, AS DOES 82% OF ALL KOREANS!!! Nowhere does it say the study is only about Northeastern Han Chinese. Just accept the facts, alrighty! Another site also mentions this fact (95% of all Chinese have the Haplogroup 7 paternal DNA Y chromosome).

About Yen:
It is a Chinese kingdom. Its lingua and aristocracy was Sino-Tibetan, but the racial background of the commoners must have been mixed Han and Dong-yi. Just like Qin's aristocracy was Han, but its commoners were mixed Han, Turkic and Iranoid elements. And, another powerful kingdom (Chu of the south) was also Han in its aristocracy, but mixed Han/Yueh among its commoners.

Qin, Yen, Chu, Lu, Chi and Han were the original 6 "Chinese" kingdoms before Qin conquered them all. These 6 kingdoms evolved from the breakup of the Zhou social and dynastic order during the Warring States period. And, we all know there were other racial stocks who got incorporated into these kingdoms.
How China came about Friday, June 21, 2002 at 21:00:46 (PDT)

Just to let you guys know,

When the Manchus entered China, a lot of its bannermen (troops) were Han Chinese of Liaodong. Later, when the Ming army of northern China defected to them, the Manchus served nothing more than as officers and light cavalry.

This was the same during the Mongol conquest of China. When Genghis Khan was beseiging the Jurchen Chin (Jin) empire, it got major help from the ethnic Han Chinese and Khitan Mongols who took the opportunity to slaughter their Jurchen overlords. One Mongol prince, Mengke told Genghis that the conquest of Jin would easily be utilized by using Han men who came to serve more than 9/10 of the infantry. This is why Genghis was able to use more Mongols on his other westward missions (to fight Tanguts Tibetans and Khwarizm Turks). Later, when Kublai invaded Song Dynasty, his Mongols were not accustomed to tropical weather and many had died like flies from malaria. So, again, he attracted Song Chinese renegades. In fact, that was how they were able to cross the Yangtze River. The Song naval captain sold out.

This same phenomena occured among the Turkic thrust to the west. Upon their acceptance of Islam, the Turkic nucleus came to be augmented more and more by Iranian, Arabic and Greek elements. In this case, the Turks were able to change the language and religion of the peoples they conquered. But, the genes remained intact (overwhelmingly Caucasoid).

It is the same case for Mongols and Manchus in China. Their genetic influences are highly overrated. Of course, there were some gene flow, but it was very limited and few. Because, for one thing, the military force very soon itself came to comprise overwhelmingly of natives.

We must remember that Altaic peoples (the true nomadic ones of Siberia and Mongolia) don't even number 20 million people to this day!!! In the past, they would have been much smaller. So small, that they couldn't have any noticeable genetic imprint on others.

Remember, that the Manchu Qing officially banned intermarriage between Han and Manchus. So did the Mongol Yuan adopt similar laws.

Maybe we should all just stick to the DNA tests and look at the truth.
we should all look at our true and humble roots Friday, June 21, 2002 at 20:43:29 (PDT)

To the one that replied to the Traveller:

Click on this website to know the origin of Mon-Khmer: http://www.albany.edu/anthro/mon/

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=834

Man, you are really lost....!!!
The TraveLLer Friday, June 21, 2002 at 19:07:10 (PDT)

Addendum # 2 to the person who addressed to the "Traveller":

"Annam has always been tributary to China, and, from the time of its becoming a self-governed state, has occasionally sent presents and tribute to the Son of Heaven. When-ever she has not done so, a war with China has been the inevitable result. China, on her side, has attached great importance to this tribute, and has fixed not only the dates on which it was to be paid, but also the nature of the presents to be made to her by Annam.

In 1252, China being under MONGOL rule, Annam had to pay tribute every three years. Under the MING Dynasty the regulations for payment of tribute by Annam were altered, and those now in force are to be found in Mr. DEVERIA'S work Histoire des Relations de la Chine avec l'Annam-Vietnam, du XVI au. XIX siecle. (Paris, Ernest Leroux, 1880.)

That Annam is a country under the sovereignty of China, is still more clear by the fact, that, on an Annamese king coming to the throne, he has to ask for investiture at the hands of the Emperor, in the same way as in the Middle Ages monarchs of Catholic countries had to obtain this confirmation of power from the Pope. Moreover, although in his relations with his subjects and in treaties with western powers the King of Annam is designated [] Dai-hoang-de, or Supreme Emperor, the characters [] Kuo-tchang, or Chief of a Kingdom, are applied to him in China when soliciting investiture; and he is afterwards simply called [] Wang, meaning King or Prince. In addressing the Emperor, the King of Annam makes use of the form [] Piao, i.e. stateman presented to the Emperor; and in replying to him the form [][] Tche-chu, or letter sent by special command of the Emperor, is used."

Click on this link: http://art-hanoi.com/toda/04.html

Read it and weep it

The TraveLLer Friday, June 21, 2002 at 16:39:57 (PDT)

DNA Testing

http://www.mindfully.org/GE/GE2/High-School-Students-Abate.htm
Interesting Friday, June 21, 2002 at 16:02:45 (PDT)

Travelller,

I wish you could read Vietnamese so that you will have better vision on Vietnamese history, people.

According to Vietnamese history, the Vietnamese defeated the French troops first attempt to land in Danang, central Vietnam in 18th century. Later they tried to land in the south and they faced massive resistance from the Vietnamese troops. The battle of Saigon-Giadinh was fought gravely by 40,000 Vietnamese troops against more than 10,000 well armed French troops, which caused more than 10,000 Vietnamese and 4,000 French casualties.

Outgunned by the French, the Vietnamese surrendered. Vietnamese peace negotiator Phan Thanh Gian committed suicide because of the French betrayal of the Peace treaty. The French took 6 southern provinces of Vietnam and then send troops up north via South China Sea to invade Hanoi. The Vietnamese capital of Nguyen dynasty was in Hue, central Vietnam. The Vietnamese Emperor Tu Duc ordered his troops in Hanoi to fight to the end. Hanoi lost into the French after many fierce fightings in which General Hoang Dieu killed himself.

It took the French several years to control the whole country of Vietnam.

Kingdom of Vietnam gradually lost to the French. However, the French faced more uprisings from the Vietnamese people that you could not imagine during his 100 years rule from 19th into 20th century and finally the battle of Dien Bien Phu (1954) the French was defeated.

By saying something like how could 10,000 French troops control 15 millions Vietnamese is like asking how could the Portuguese control Macao and the British control Hong Kong from the Middle Kingdom.

A French Navy Admiral had his note to French King Napoleon III as � We faced massive resistances from the Annamese (Vietnamese) as I had never faced before. Sometimes I though we lost�.

FYI, China sent troops to help the Vietnamese when the French attacked Northern Vietnam in 19th century:

http://www.onwar.com/aced/nation/fax/france/findochina1873.htm
http://www.onwar.com/aced/nation/fax/france/findochina1882.htm

An Nam Guy Friday, June 21, 2002 at 15:08:09 (PDT)

What? You mean Japanese are not descendants of political refugees who failed in their mission of find the fruit of eternal youth.

My world is crumbling.
AC Dropout Friday, June 21, 2002 at 13:57:03 (PDT)

"I hardly see any Filipino, Korean , Indian or Japanese in Chinatown, why is that? It seems like the Chinese and Vietnamese share more of a culture than the rest."

Filipinos- dont often concentrate into asian neigborhoods or create filipino communities . they assimilate into other neigborhoods because they adapt easily.

koreans: think korean towns. i dont know, i see alot of koreans going around chinatown.

indians: you gotta be kidding.
james Friday, June 21, 2002 at 13:50:17 (PDT)

Addendum to the person who posted for the Traveller:

Before 1980's, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and South Africa were considered to be a country of its own, were they still a territory of England?

The TraveLLer Friday, June 21, 2002 at 13:35:16 (PDT)

To the person who posted for the "Traveller",

Please tell me exactly what happened to those "Giao Chi" people nowadays?

For your information, then how do you explain why most Vietnamese�s have the same last name as the Chinese? For your information, there wasn't any "Nguyen" prior to the Nguyen dynasty. It was a made up surname to get away from the Chinese. Do you know why?

Could that be due to rebellious aristocrat in Vietnam wanted to take power because of greed? Shish, after more than 1000 years of occupation, or you sure that what you stated is correct, not by your bias or brainwashed opinion? You make me laugh! Guess what? After more than 1000 years of occupation by the Han, what do you think had happened to the "Giao Chi" people? We don't see any ones in Vietnam with feet and toes, as described in the textbook anymore do us?

Are these people either been?
a) Wiped out.
b) Intermarried with the "Han", but notice if that is the case than the Han's gene is the dominant one, since there are no ones today in Vietnam with straight toes and gaps in between.
c) Migrated to another place(s), if then where?

Man, you are some character... As for Vietnam or "Annam" back then, it was still uncultivated and a wild land with many Indian tribes. Please click on: http://www.uglychinese.org/vietnamese.htm

Notice the author stated that the local king claimed to be "king".

Another question if Guam and Puerto Rico is a territory of the U.S., why are they not a state yet? And what do you consider of them? Another country? Duhh, duhh...they are another country but they are a territory of the U.S., but they also pay tax to the U.S. government but they claimed they are another country.
And tell me, what is the real "Vietnamese" language, as you described in your post?

I agree that there are many ethics in Vietnam that is why I said there is no real Vietnamese, didn't I?

And if the Chinese took control in Vietnam, would they put some aristocrats or the local people(whom they no idea that they might rebel against them any days) to rule the newly empire. You are drunk if you think the other way. Based on my oservation, the aristocrats in Vietnam were the Chinese themselves; whereas, the commoners are many ethnics that lived in that region with diverse culture.

Notice to rule the land, you need to speak the same language as the commoner the same case could be said as the Manchu controlled China, not the other way around. Please use your common sense rather brainwashed literature.

Here is a link�read it and weep it:
http://www.uglychinese.org/vietnamese.htm

And don't called me name when you don't know jack about me!

BTW: Many Vietnamese claimed that 30-40% Vietnamese language is from the French language, please provide me the source. I can understand you are being a patriot, but common, there're more than the book.
The TraveLLer Friday, June 21, 2002 at 13:25:02 (PDT)

k,

what I use to call "proto-Asian" refers to body traits which could be viewed as the most "primitive" among modern Asians.Dravidians have also such "primitive" features.
My sources are variable.Of course,in these days you cannot find that many texts about "primitive" body traits of recent humanity because of "political correctness".I read some older books from the nazi and pre-nazi times trying to ignore the racist elements within these books if I could find them out.
rare stuff Friday, June 21, 2002 at 13:09:44 (PDT)

"HK wasn't forced to be given away to Britain??? In HK courts, why do the judges wear those stupid looking British wigs? Colonialism and forced westernization is long past, westernization in modern times by all groups including the hispanics have been done willingly."

When the Guangdong Chinese and the Japanese were establishing communities in the Western hemisphere in the late 1800's and early 1900's, the Taiwanese and Korean folks were still under the rule of Japanese oppression.

Why the hell do you bring up Hispanics in a discussion about Asians and Westernization?

Hispanics were under the oppression of Spain. Spain was NEVER an economy based country like England or the Netherlands. In a sense, Westernization is a equivalent to Capitalism..now how many Latin American places have the status of Tokyo or Hong Kong?

How freaking modern do you want to get???? We and the Japanese tasted modernization 1st...! Many of us brought western trends from our overseas communities back to our homelands. Did you Taiwanese folks do the same thing before WW II. I don't think so, you folks were still under the rule of imperial Japan.

Yes, therefore the Taiwanese Hoklos/Hakkas aren't as isolated as you would like to think.

Yeah? Hoklos and Hakkas from other places are less isolated than the ones in Taiwan. Your statement is contradicting, island folks tend to be more isolated!

I'm not surprised, considering the same is also true between HK folks and the Mainlanders and between northern and southern Chinese.

Relations between the Southern and Northern Chinese is better than the one between the Cantonese and Taiwanese. In fact, Taiwanese are the ones who stress their elitism and exclusiveness...more so than the other groups. They have this attitude like "oh, we're better than those lowly rude Cantonese/Mainland scum, no need to be friends or to associate with them". Correct me if I'm wrong? it is you the Taiwanese folks who foster most of these animosities.

Asian Westernization Friday, June 21, 2002 at 12:45:26 (PDT)

Speculation:

just like Himalaya serve as a barrier btw India and China, the Long Moutain in Vietnam has been a great barrier btw Vietnam, Laos, thus India also.
Some facts Friday, June 21, 2002 at 12:43:24 (PDT)

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