Comparing Asian Nationalities | Asian American Poll

COMPARING ASIAN NATIONALITIES
(Updated Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:39:09 AM to reflect the 100 most recent valid responses.)

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WHAT YOU SAY

[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]

To Yup,

You posted, "Also, you seem to not refer to the site you posted up. It refers to the vietnamese people as short and ugly, that shows how biased and inaccurate it is, because if it truly know about the vietnamese people it would have broken the physical looks into at least three regions, with the north being lighter and such like that. You should reply and justify on such biased info, but all i see is an insecurity to answer such questions..."

Honestly, I think this website is based on the catholic missionaries that came to Vietnam during the French colonial days. If you take a look at some photos of the Vietnamese people during the colonial days, I believe it speaks the truth during those day. Heck, take a look at the photos of the Korean, Chinese, and Japanese during the 1800's and 1900's, there is a big difference when comparing to the modern day people too. You must also keep in mind that during the first French occupation, the first settlement was in Saigon, the southern part of Vietnam.

So basically, these missionaries reported through what they saw. I believe there was a high percentage of intermarriage between the "Viet" and the "Cham" during this era, since it was during 1800's and early 1900's. The latter years brought more northern Vietnamese to South Vietnam; hence, possibly a higher percentage of people with lighter complexion is seen nowadays. Moreover, after the revolution war in China, many Chinese fled the communist and settled in Saigon during the 1950's.

Apparently, this source were from the Catholic missionaries in the old days to Annam.

The TraveLLer Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 09:49:12 (PDT)

To "To the Traveller: You must be questioned first",

You posted, "I can see you were desperately find ways to defend yourself, despite you claiming your knowledge background. You asked me a question you already knew the answer. Yes it's a mythology. However it's not a fairy tale, as you've stated. Can you distinguish fairy tale and legend/mythology?*sigh*?This is not a fairy tale! you're just lost here!......."

Thanks for the good laugh. Anyway, who is/are the one(s) that wrote the Vietnamese history based on legend and myth? You have yet to answer my question. Since you are the O' mighty knowledge individual, can tell me his/her/their names? I'm still waiting.

The TraveLLer Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 09:12:32 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

The first governor of vietnam wasn't a Nguyen it was some guy around 500 AD, Ruan Cho? Yup that's him. Also i spelled Ruen instead of Ruan.

Even though that proves that the Nguyen last name is shared amongst the chinese, the majority of my blood is still viet, i don't give much. BUT ultimately this kind of proves you wrong doesn't it? Just to say you know, that the Nguyen last name dates REALLY REALLY far back. Just that Ruan Cho is the farthest i can think of right now...
General Viet Monday, July 01, 2002 at 23:53:49 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

The Nguyen thing, you say that before the Nguyen Dynasty there were no such thing as Nguyen. Well just to show, here's atleast ONE Nguyen.

NGUYEN BINH KHIEM (1491-1586)

He's VERY famous, are you viet? Just wondering because when people say Nguyen they think of Nguyen Binh Khiem, the Nguyen Dynasty, Tay Son, and Vietnam.

Also, my feet isn't muong, i'm pretty sure, because muong is a minority, if everyone who has feet like me isn't kinh but muong. Then 70 million of vietnam would have to change their ethnic background. Because i've been to Haiphong, Hanoi, and Nha Trang, all notable cities of the north, and when i walk around it seemed that 19 out of 20 people had feet like mine. Also the fact that when i went to HCMC, like 11 out of 20 would have that feet. AND NO THE ONES WHO HAD IT DIDN'T LOOK INDIAN, they were light skinned viet looking people. Like the typical northern viet. Tall, thin, lean, big eyes, light, high forehead, the feet thing of course, double eyelids, northern ancestry of course, a big of a longer face but still has a kind of heart shape of a face, but still a kind of a cross between long and heart, most have dimples for some reason (clueless on why for that reason, i think it's a genetic thing, it's supposed to be a dominant gene, ah whatever).

Break my heart? If i was muong i would pretty well know it, muong stick together, when i went to vietnam and visited my family i think i would have known. Plus, what's wrong with you? Are you racist or something? It seems like when you said that, that there is something wrong with being muong. Muong are kind of light skinned but half of them are dark, and the features are a bit different, even though that believe of once living side by side.
General Viet Monday, July 01, 2002 at 23:19:42 (PDT)

http://www.dai3gen.net/emails5.htm
DNA don't always tell you the truth. Ainus look caucasian but their gene and blood type belong in mongoloid. Ancient northern chinese have similar genes to modern caucasian but that is not to say physilogically they look like caucasian
tartar Monday, July 01, 2002 at 22:44:13 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

The delta feet isn't only the type i was talking about, BUT there are a total of three types. I'll list them:

1. What i have, the delta people who came from the Son Vi had this, they are said to be also an ancestor to the modern vietnamese, or kinh today. It can be described as having the second toe longer then the first, it's actually a majority thing, not in minority tribes, but in the cities, like hanoi, hue, nha trang, and dominant in the phu to region. It is also common in the south but not as common as it is in the north. For example, if i walk on the streets of hanoi i'll see 19 out of 20 people having it (actually what i saw in hue, nha trang, and also at a visit to phu to and the southeast). People with this feet are also lighter skinned, a bit taller, thinner, longer in the face bone structure, big eyes like the rest of the viets, also the famous pink tone of the vietnamese people that is described to be good luck. People with this feet, usually are the north, and also believes that marrying a chinese is bad luck (maybe because when you do usually the feet doesn't go onto the children, recessive maybe, like i know this girl, she's only 25% chinese and she's actually my cousin, she doesn't have the feet, her father does, but her mother who's half chinese also doesn't). These people are said to be the descendents to the original delta people from the Son Vi culture because of the escavations in Phu To, even though half the people today who lives close to the delta have #2, the #1 lived in that area according to escavations, and #2 is a result of a migration south from the Yueh or another groups such as the Sa Huynh.

2. The acclaimed spread out crazy feet, mostly attributed to the Muong, Mon (other minority mountainous groups), etc... This is the type that is close to impossible to put your feet in a shoe (sounds funny, but true). These people are described to have been a mixture between the Sa Huynh and the Delta people while the people with #1 are said to be more purely descendents to the Delta people. Believed to be extinct by some, but living proof like the Muong can not be denied.

3. Almost normal, but space between the sides of the toes is more spacey.

That's just for you traveller, because i know my feets well, BUT i don't know the name to them, because i am a visual person i know things through experience and through seeing. You can check it up, go to a musuem in vietnam (since your viet, it shouldn't be a problem) and check it up, or search it up.

Giao Chi to what i know is the name of the province from what the chinese call vietnam after it was conquered. I refer to vietnam as the Yueh feet because that particular type of feet can be traced back to them.

Also, MANY sources say that the muong and kinh are related originally and broke off a while ago, but features have changed through adaption and such.
General Viet Monday, July 01, 2002 at 22:21:33 (PDT)

If you don't mind, let me add something here. About 500,000 Chinese were relocated to southern China and northern Vietnam undre the order of first Qin emprorer Shihuangdi in the 3rd century BC. Chinese records still showed that Viets in the middle and south of Vietnam had curly hair, and the Vietnamese history correctly recorded that southern Vietnamese kings possessed Indian names. Check out what's said at http://www.uglychinese.org/vietnamese.htm Apparently, southern Vietnamese were people of Negroid ancestry, and that's reflected in the wide Negroid nose of southern Vietnamese today.

Koreans: Early time, Manchuria used to be the so-called 'Shan Rong' tribe, and this Mountain Rong people were the ancestors of later Donghu people. Donghu were the ancestors of Xianbei and Wuhuan. Xianbei and Wuhuan were the ancestors of Khitans and Shiwei. Shiwei, living around Heilongjiang River, were the ancestors of Genghis Khan Mongols. Shiwei were relatives of Mojie people. Mojie were the ancestors of Jurchens and Manchus. Original Koreans were probably related to Sushen and later Yilou people. What happened to Korea must be related to Tungusic invasions, first waves by Puyo and Korguryo, and second wave by Xianbei. After the fall of Po'hai, ancestors of Jurchens went back to Koryo. Koryo people went back to China and the Jurchens defeated the Khitans. Koreans inevitably shared lots of Tungusic bloodline. As to ancient Koreans, they should have spread archaic Korean to Japan, and still retained this trace in Japan. Around 2nd century BC and 1st century AD, southern Korea had a statelet called Qin-han, and people there claimed they fled from China's Qin Empire.

going _back_in_time Monday, July 01, 2002 at 19:55:11 (PDT)

I apologize if we Japanese aren't as superior as you Taiwanese. (this is sarcasm).
But at least we are very accepting of other races. Marriages to other non-Japanese has been slowly increasing each year here.
Murata Monday, July 01, 2002 at 19:07:39 (PDT)

Genral Viet,

re: Treaty of March 15, 1874.

I have emailed the French Foreign Ministry to obtain a copy of the treaty 1874 and 1862...I hope they respond...I will post if they email me with these documentations.

It should be in French.

Be well
The TraveLLer Monday, July 01, 2002 at 18:37:31 (PDT)

To, traveller;

*But all the points of view that you made are rather based on your perception and not real history. I asked many of you about the �Nguyen� last name, and all I get is a bunch of 360 degree answers. For example, An Nam Guy only brought up to me histories during15-1700�s, at the time that the �Nguyen� last name was already invented. What happened to the �Nguyen� last name prior to 1500�s?*

Even though you are right that the Nguyen last name isn't purely viet. But it is probably a last name of the Yueh people. The first governer of vietnam was of Yueh descendent and he carried the vietnamese last name of Nguyen (also Ruen and Yuen). That is about 1500 year AHEAD OF WHAT YOUR SAYING. Once again, another flaw.

*AGAIN I FORGOT TO REPLY*
General Viet Monday, July 01, 2002 at 17:51:22 (PDT)

*�In foreign relations, the Nguyen kings recognized the symbolic authority of Beijing, but pursued a policy of influencing Laos and Cambodia. It was from this position of weakness that the regime was to face French colonial aggression in the middle of the 19th century.�
With all these to say, I still hold my position that Annam �Vietnam� was a territory, or at least a vassal and/or protectoral territory, of China until the French took over.*

EVEN if that was right, the word symbolic means that china was well, symbolic with no actual power. Kind of like the queen of england to australia and canada right now, the queen has no control over what they do, but she can say whatever she wants and we have to hear her out, but at the end we do whatever we want. Symbolic, Symbolic, Symbolic... That just destroyed your reply to those quotes, a vassal nation is one under anothers total and direct control, you can't be symbolically tied and because of being symbolically tied your a vassal. If we were truly a vassal, the nation wouldn't be just symbolically tied would it? But truly tied under a ruler, the chinese ruler. BUT NO IT WASN'T.

*AGAIN I FORGOT TO REPLY*
General Viet Monday, July 01, 2002 at 17:49:21 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

*Defeated, King Chieu Thong resorted to treason, appealing to the Manchu Tsing dynasty then reigning over China. The Tsing Emperor Kien-Jung, who harbored ambitions of reconquering Vietnam, charged Governor Ton Si-nghi (Soun Che-y) with mustering a force of 200,000 men for an invasion. On the 20th day of the tenth lunar month of the year 1788, the Tsing troops set out, proclaiming that they would "destroy the Tay Son and restore the Le". On the 21st day of the 11th lunar month, they entered Thang Long. A pontoon was thrown across the Red River, on both banks of which the Tsing troops were camped.*

King Le Chiu Tong got help from china at that time to destroy Tay Son, who from your source asked for approval to be "Vuong" and got it? C'mon, that's just rediculous, what kind of a source contradicts itself like this? Nguyen Hue was part of the Tay Son, the chinese were trying to destroy his mov't and he himself, he destroyed china's army. He through consideration, should have been an enemy of the chinese for defying their decision on who to rule. Le Chiu Tong committed treason against the vietnamese state by asking for outside help, BUT he got help from china, who's forces were then destroyed by Nguyen Hue (Tay Son). Why would the chinese then put up a powerful and influential monarch of the same race as the people, who also defys china, as king and make him even more powerful? C'mon, can't beleive i didn't pick that up earlier though.

Hmmm, i think i should reply to all you said, because there's probably even more flaws somewhere along here.
General Viet Monday, July 01, 2002 at 17:45:46 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

*King Quang Trung was a role model of Vietnam�s model nowadays. He defeated the �Qing� in the Southern province of China; however, he did go to China and got approval for him to be considered �king (Vuong)� of the province, since Annam was always a vassal to China. The Tay son brothers didn�t know this policy because they were peasant and considered to be mountainous robbers. They were less educated than the former �Le� Dynasty and their aristocrats.*

You seem to not see or have not known that Nguyen Hue WAS PART OF THE TAY SON, you seem (from what you wrote) to think they are two different groups. Lol, kind of funny though. Nguyen Hue was a hero and asked the Chinese to become Vuong, BUT the Tay Son didn't know better because they were peasants? Lol, they were the same group. Nguyen Hue can't have been both written as have asked and haven't at the same time, he either did it or not.

*Note: Again, sorry for not replying right away*
General Viet Monday, July 01, 2002 at 17:39:56 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

*If I were you, I need to invest some times in learning Chinese or old Vietnamese. Most of the vietnamese world derived from the Chinese...except for a few the basic one. The modern language used different dialect from the Chinese but most can be written in chinese character.*

*Note: sorry for not replying to everything right away*

Ok, the reason why MOST vietnamese words CAN be written in chinese characters is because we used to use chinese characters to write down our language. Our language as a whole has a lot of influence, but to the essence it isn't a derivative of the original chinese language, but of it's own stock, hence the reason why it even has it's own branch in the Mon-Khmer line of languages.
General Viet Monday, July 01, 2002 at 17:35:45 (PDT)

Oh, traveller;

*The Le Dynasty
The Vietnamese advance to the south coincided with new challenges in the north. In 1407 Viet Nam was again conquered by Chinese troops. For two decades, the Ming dynasty attempted to reintegrate Viet Nam into the empire, but in 1428, resistance forces under the rebel leader Le Loi dealt the Chinese a decisive defeat and restored Vietnamese independence. Le Loi mounted the throne as the first emperor of the Le dynasty. The new ruling house retained its vigor for more than a hundred years, but in the 16th century it began to decline. Power at court was wielded by two rival aristocratic clans, the Trinh and the Nguyen. When the former became dominant, the Nguyen were granted a fiefdom in the south, dividing Viet Nam into two separate zones. Rivalry was sharpened by the machinations of European powers newly arrived in Southeast Asia in pursuit of wealth and Christian converts.*

Vietnam was also independent from chinese rule during the Le dynasty, contrary to what you were saying. The Le dynasty was also established due to the resistance against the chinese. So ANOTHER fact contrary to what you were saying, they might have been recognized as the ruler by the chinese, BUT Le Loi was constantly in attempts to being assassinated, and i doubt he would have went to vietnam to ask for his enemies consent to rule his own country, from which he destroyed the chinese. His acts would have been considered treason, and i doubt he would have risked being killed to ask for permission.
General Viet Monday, July 01, 2002 at 17:16:59 (PDT)

Why is it that the Asians insulting Asians are mainly the ones living in Asia? I guess it's human nature for people to insult other people who they feel different in any way or have never met.
Take this for example, my relatives who live in suburban, white neighborhoods tell me that they have met a bunch of racism.
On the other hand, I live in San Fran where it's VERY diverse (Asian, white, Hispanics, etc.) and racism is very low. Various races here haved lived together for years and we understand that we're all just PEOPLE.
In Asian countries where they hardly even see many foreigners, they are racist against them.
Hoklo Taiwanese, you said you don't like all these non-Taiwanese racial groups. Oh yeah? How many have you actually met in person?
San Fran man Monday, July 01, 2002 at 16:18:55 (PDT)

To, We are all different and same;

I agree 100% with you, at that time, at the creation of the word 'chinese' itself through the unification of the tribes conquered, the tribes at that time who happily assimilated became 'chinese' under the nation of china.

Don't you find it funny that paternal dna says that koreans are related to the chinese? Plus the fact that koreans don't like chinese people very much throughout their history history. Can this be concluded to be the resulf of rape on a mass scale? Everyone knows that when your proud to be something that you are UNLESS you were forced into it.
Aiya Baby Monday, July 01, 2002 at 15:39:01 (PDT)

To, An Nam Guy;

I think the chinese equivalent of Nguyen would be Ruen, or Yuen. Either one, but the Nguyen of the vietnamese people usually are traced back to the first governor of vietnam who he himself revolted and renamed vietnam Nam Viet, he lost then it was named Giao Chi. Hmmm, he was chinese but VERY anti-chinese, he was said to have killed all chinese, and spared those of his friendship, but killed people who of his friendship, were loyal to the chinese emperor. He could have passed down the superstition that i hear alot about, where marrying a chinese is bad luck (doubtful since he himself is chinese), and unfortunate for the family, but it was recorded to have been said by the Trung Sisters (more probable).

BUT like i said, there ARE last names in the south of china that the northern chinese DON'T have. They are probably names descending from it's Yueh ancestors, of which the Han don't have (original hans that is), names like Nguyen, Ly, Ngo etc...
General Viet Monday, July 01, 2002 at 15:31:28 (PDT)

To, To the Traveller: You must be questioned first;

Just to let you know, this will probably come to use to you someday, the Hung King legend is based on a VERY ancient legend dating back to the speech made by the Trung Sisters themselves who were around 2 000 years ago. She used it to fight against the chinese, an indication that the Hung Kings weren't of chinese blood or else why would she call them invading bandits who fight for the sufferings of another? Also the fact that because it was passed down orally, but her speech was written down refering to the Hungs, that the legend could have later been manipulated to be so far feetched. The legend at first could have just been about the 'true' and believable origin of the modern viets, about the union of two tribes represented started by the marriage of two people. Possibly the unifying of the Delta and the Yueh, or the Yueh and another tribe who was in vietnam.

General Viet Monday, July 01, 2002 at 14:51:29 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

Just to say look at the top picture in this site:

http://www.nhandan.org.vn/english/identity/19990411.html

The muong there are REALLY like vietnamese people of the shores (cities). The features are very similar in a lot of the muong, but then some of the sites i picked up had darker muong, probably sunburn (?) or influence of another ethnic like the tai of tay maybe. Whatever, but the muong i know are predominantly lighter skinned people, close to the viets of the north. But hey, whatever. Your viet you should have known that the word kinh means people of the shores, and muong of the mountains (let me check up on that :D, if it means different i'll say it, if i don't say anything then i confirmed it with a few questions from elderly viets somewhere).
General Viet Monday, July 01, 2002 at 14:17:26 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

You know what? The muong and kinh (viet) were believed to have once been ONE. So they were the same, if i was muong i wouldn't care at all, BUT i'm not for sure due to my clear background lineage. Thanks to that book i have, my background is atleast clearly traced to the Nguyen Dynasty. Oh, the muong and kinh were said to once have been one, but broke up. The muong stayed in the mountains, while the kinh moved down near the shores and flatlands more, then moved south.

http://www.bethany.com/profiles/p_code3/1057.html

The muong aren't as dark as that guy but hey whatever. The muong i know in vietnam are pretty light skinned, most lighter then most viets i know. But they do look a bit like viets. So whatever. Muong and Kinh (viet) are teh same thing.

The muong are described as viet people who live on the mountains, and the kinh as viets living on the shores. I personally heard that from a history teacher, and also my father. If they weren't the same ethnic at one time why would they be both considered viet? So i don't know why my heart would be broken? And the the heck are you sinking low as to slip in weak comments like that? Didn't you say you wanted an intelligent conversation? The muong, unlike other ethnics like the han, tay, tai, mon, aren't referred in the vietnamese language to be of a different ethnic. But when you say, "muong people" in viet it means people of the mountain, or people who live in the mountain who are of the vietnamese blood. The kinh is a word to say, people who live in the shores, but it is ok to just say viet for them also. It's the same. BUT when you say, han, or mon, they are refering ot the tribes, who can live anywhere either in the mountains or the shores. Your viet you should know that.
General Viet Monday, July 01, 2002 at 14:04:14 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

Oh and also the fact that indians are DARK, i am NOT. I'm kind of yellow but lighter then chinese people a bit, something like northern china, but less pale (pale as in like your sick kind of look). Is that also a new attribute to the Indian tribes? Lol, even if i was one of those tribes, i would well know it, because they live together in communities and when i went to vietnam i would have noticed dancing around a figher, or if i was cham, muslim temples. C'mon.
General Viet Monday, July 01, 2002 at 13:19:44 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

Um, lol, me muong? MAYBE, but i doubt it, i am a descendent of Nguyen Anh (Gia Long), i don't think he was muong. BUT like i said, the feet i described is dated back to the Red River Delta people, who are NOW believed ALSO to be an ancestor to the modern vietnamese. Also considering the FACT that the Dong Son (descendents to the Son Vi, and also of the Delta) had that feet BUT ALSO outnumbered the Yueh who moved south. It is said that the two cultures merged creating the vietnamese culture, because it's close to impossible to destroy a civilization who was welly developed in agriculture and lived there for over 20 thousand years, also outnumbering you. PLUS, when i go to VIETNAM, in HANOI i see this type of feet A LOT, also in HUE. My mom is from hue, my father is from hanoi. And yet i have a southerners accent (weird). Oh well.

The Giao Chi feet you described COULD have been dispersed or it's genes challenged in the process of mixing with the Delta people. Muong people i DON'T THINK have this feet.

The MUONG are a minority group, i don't think a minority group can just suddenly become the emperor of vietnam, then suddenly become the majority ethnic group of BOTH HANOI AND HUE, with saigon having this type of feet too (but to a lesser degree, like 11 out of 20 people would have it).

IF you were viet you would know that my type of feet ARE VERY COMMON, it's SO common to the point where it's part of fortune telling. My type of feet means that my mother dies before my father, the normal feet means the father before my mother. BUT, i don't find it very accurate forune telling (what is?), because my aunt has normal, and my mother has mine. But like i said, IF YOU WERE VIET YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN. SO are you half chinese? SERIOUSLY, because that's little things viets should know. It's like common knowledge.
General Viet Monday, July 01, 2002 at 13:17:21 (PDT)

To Annam Guy et al.,

This letter is to apologize any of you during the course of today�s conversation. I didn�t have the time to read throughout the content, at the same time, and replied with some offensive words.

However, I am still firmly standing on what I had presented to you. I understand that this website is delayed in a day or more; therefore, there could be some miscommunications along the line. I�m pretty sure that you all aware of this. Again, my apology to you all.

Be well.
The TraveLLer Monday, July 01, 2002 at 13:04:53 (PDT)

"Let's see the bigger picture of things",

I know the German newspaper "Bild Zeitung": only people with an IQ below 100 read it. This newspaper also publishes stuff like "extraterrastrians rule the world",i.e. their whole stories are mere trash. The letters are so big like in books for small children.
And don't forget that the PISA studies have shown how dumb the German masses are.
AM in Germany Monday, July 01, 2002 at 12:23:05 (PDT)

Annam guy,

"Quang Trung is the only King in Vietnam history used Nom language as its official languange. But his Dynasty did not last long (less than 10 years). Later, when King Gia Long (Nguyen Anh) took power, Chinese was again official written language in the kingdom of Vietnam (1802-1945)."

FYI, Quang Trung reign for 3 years, a very very short period. The "Nom" language wasn't popular at all, it was less use than anything else. However, it has its history place because there is a change in history.

You also posted, "BTW, I just asked a Chinese man, native of Shanghai, in his 50s about the surname Nguyen. He said there are many Chinese who carry last name Nguyen in China."

How do you know that that Chinese man knows what is he talking about? There is another chinese last name, if written in Vietnamese is "Nguyen", not the same as "Nguyen" with the different accent. Anyway, they might thought that you are talking about that last name. And how do you approach him to ask for it? I know how to write Chinese, and there are a lot of today's Vietnamese(romantize alphabet)word that are the same, but when written in Chinese it's totally diferent character. However, There were some Vietnamese "Nguyen's" who worked for the emperor of China in the old days, as history recorded.

I haven't encountered any history record before 940 A.D. to have the "Nguyen".
The TraveLLer Monday, July 01, 2002 at 11:59:00 (PDT)

Traveller:

Muong is not an indian tribe. They belong in the 100 yueh tribes. The 'indians' were the chams inhabiting as far as the central-southern areas of Vietnam. Actually the muong language is said to be closely related to vietnamese.

give u a link for u to see what the muong look like, quite different from 'indian'.
http://www.vietnamtourism.com/e_pages/vietnam/introduction/people_customer/fr_national.htm

as for the Giao Chi feet, it is not extinct, if you talk about the ffet w/ big toe spread apart. Both my grandmas got this feet, however none of their offsprings have it. Go to rural areas in VN and you'll see it there! this i don't have to lie. what i'm saying is 100% true.

Get the fact straight! Monday, July 01, 2002 at 11:52:27 (PDT)

General Viet,

"Even if Quang Trung didn't ask to be crowned, he would have done it anyways, if Nguyen Anh didn't ask to be crowned he would have been anyways, if *place a viet emperor/leader* wasn't approved he would have been a ruler any ways."

Could be said so, but everyone knows that the people of Annam by a large scale cnnot defeat the whole Chinese emperor army. Is this logic enough? By the way, in the old days, people respected their emperor, thus also the Annamese Kings. This is why "Qunag Trung" is considered to be a rebel...he was in no way a royal member. Usually among royalty, they share some blood line...the same it's in Europe and elsewhere. Annam is a territory of China; therefore, it has to have bloodline of China. Hence, the marriage of the Manchu princess to Quang Trung was to make Quang Trung an royal family, since he wasn't a royal member. Blood line in the past was considered to be very important, it was to negotiate, keeping peace and help during wars. I don't know why you guys act so incomprehensive.

The "Le", "Trinh", and "Nguyen" was considered to have royal blood. Quang Trung was not a "Nguyen" from the royal blood line; in fact, his real last name is "HO". That why the war broke out during that time. During the ~200 years war between the "Nguyen and Trinh", China didn't get involved. If the "Nguyen" and the "Trinh" were controlling the "Le", then why didn't they claim to be king of Annam? It must be approved by the emperor of China, thus the "Nguyen" and the "Trinh" held on to their status as the lords. It wasn't until "Nguyen Anh", Gia Long, took over Annam without the "Trinh" and the "Le" in the thrown that gave him the investiture hand of the emperor of China.

Nguyen Anh was the nephew of the "Nguyen" lord in the south. Like it or not, in everyway, Annam was a territory of China.

Be well
The TraveLLer Monday, July 01, 2002 at 11:42:37 (PDT)

"There are very few countries in which education is held in higher esteem than in Annam, and very few in which the instruction is less scientific and less practical. Almost every village possesses its school, and illiteracy is very rare among the natives. Although all state functions are open to public competition, the instruction is confined to the history, customs, and laws of the country, and to the tenets of Confucianism. Even among the most accomplished there is absolute and universal ignorance of our physical, mathematical, and natural sciences"

Just paste it here so you guys read it and give your opinions. The writer compare the oldschool educational system in Vietnam with the other current educational systems.

"The great blot on the Annamite character is an overpowering tendency towards deceit and dishonesty, which Christianity�as attested by hostile French officials�has done much to remove. In general sober and industrious, the Annamite is greatly attached to his family and his home, and, though naturally of a gentle and timid disposition, exhibits on occasion a courageous scorn of death. "

"Devoted to song, poetry, the theatre, and feasts, his literature is composed mainly of ballads, dramas, romance, and legends�almost all of which are borrowed from the religious traditions of the Khmers� and countless philosophical treatises. "

as a vietnamese , i felt my anger after reading the total bullshit being made up. womever wrote that look down upon Annamites.

From www.newadvent.org/cathen/07765a.htm Monday, July 01, 2002 at 11:22:23 (PDT)

Annam Guy,

Of course, the Chinese live scatter throughout Vietnam; however, my post was during the Quang Trung reign. The threat to the Qing are always the Ming loyalists. As I mentioned, those Ming loyalists are mainly from "Cho Lon". Please get on the same page, would you?
The TraveLLer Monday, July 01, 2002 at 11:16:59 (PDT)

General Viet,

The treaties cannot be found in any website. You have to go to Paris, it's in French. Si vous pouvez lire en Francais, j'espere que vous prenez votre temp et comprenez l'histoire de l'origine de Vietnamien. Salut.
The TraveLLer Monday, July 01, 2002 at 10:57:59 (PDT)

Annam Guy,

Quang Trung real name is not "Nguyen Hue", it's "HO THOM". He is not a "Nguyen". Would you please your history before you debate without any merit to it. Sad to see another Vietnamese who doesn't know his history.
The TraveLLer Monday, July 01, 2002 at 10:50:15 (PDT)

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