Comparing Asian Nationalities | Asian American Poll

COMPARING ASIAN NATIONALITIES
(Updated Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:39:09 AM to reflect the 100 most recent valid responses.)

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WHAT YOU SAY

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It's so funny but our GENERAL VIET claimed that the Muong were dark, indeed, they are not. Check out this website: http://www.vietnamtourism.com/e_pages/vietnam/54dantoc/muong.htm

We may be confused for being a Kinh, check out his statement:

"Muong marriage customs are similar to the Kinh. When a woman is giving birth to a child, her family surrounds the main ladder to the house with a bamboo fence. The child will be given a name when it is one year old. The Muong hold funerals with strict rules. Muong practice a polytheistic religion and ancestor worship."

And look at the location: The largest population is concentrated in Hoa Binh Province and the mountainous districts of Thanh Hoa Province.

General Viet, you may be a muong by your descriptive feet. Certainly not a real Viet, since Viet are know to have "Giao Chi" feet.

Geez, every Vietnamese knows the root of "Vietnam Giao Chi", and our dear General Viet doesn't...he is only aware of the city. Sadly, he didn't know why the town was built and named after that name, Giao Chi.

Thank you to the individual who had posted this website.

The TraveLLer Wednesday, July 03, 2002 at 08:49:45 (PDT)

Who belongs under the Malay-Polynesian race? I know filipinos do for one. Can anyone tell me who else?
all look same Wednesday, July 03, 2002 at 08:20:17 (PDT)

How come every time I go to Goldsea, I read about racial and cultural superiority on the polls. Especially from Chinese and Vietnamese. I wished more of the noble and kind-hearted of the Chinese and Vietnamese post on this site. I am Chinese and we have a saying, "be so gentle that you can walk without killing the ants". I think this is a wise motto to follow.

Sometimes, I see my fellow countrymen being very mean and ignorant and not becoming of a civilized person when I read some of their posts. I wished they can see that being Chinese is more than our history. I am very sad that antagonism is still rampant between asians. Frankly, it somtimes sickens me. Are there any noble and gentle Chinese left in the world? Yes, but they are not posting on Goldsea. You see, they have more important things to do. You people are nothing like the selfless Chinese that are wasting away in prison for advocating democracy and fairness in China. Or the Chinese doctors who are desperately trying to save the peasants from the scourge of AIDS. Or the Chinese lawyers who are fighting for the rights of the Tibetans. Or the Chinese businessman who is donating his fortune to building new schools. Or the Chinese career policeman who is risking his life fighting drug traffikers on the Burmese border. Or the Chinese families in Jilin Province who is risking arrest by hiding and caring for North Korean refugees. Enough of your arrogant words and more compassion for other human beings. I am sorry for my bluntness but I can't help it when I see racist writing disguised as history lessons on these polls. Are you people ashamed of yourselves yet?
The only sane Chinese person left on Goldsea Wednesday, July 03, 2002 at 02:38:07 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

Just going to ask you a question, can you back up that quote about the Le, Trinh and Nguyen being of chinese royal blood line? I'm a descendent of Gia Long himself and did not know this (maybe because the lineage book is in vietnam, and i'm in north america right now). Also when i searched basically every search engine, none shows up that they had royal blood line in them. If they did it would be a significant detail wouldn't it? Also the fact that the Nguyen lords were AGAINST the chinese forces, they hated/disliked the chinese at that time, the Trinhs i have no idea (not my family). Can you provide some proof either then what someone in a cafe said?

General Viet Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 23:00:57 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

*Nguyen Anh was the nephew of the "Nguyen" lord in the south. Like it or not, in everyway, Annam was a territory of China.*

I don't recall having chinese blood in my lineage book. Hmmm, was the dynasty keeping something from my side of the family? I don't recall our Nguyen royal blood to have chinese in us, or maybe i need to dig farther into my past. Plus that also seems to be false, like i said, how many daughters did the manchu's have? They don't just through a daughter at every magistrate in a another countries court, that's just rediculous.

An Nam Guy, your a descendent of the Tay Son? Interesting, i thought my ancestors took care of them.
General Viet Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 22:48:30 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

*During the ~200 years war between the "Nguyen and Trinh", China didn't get involved. If the "Nguyen" and the "Trinh" were controlling the "Le", then why didn't they claim to be king of Annam? It must be approved by the emperor of China, thus the "Nguyen" and the "Trinh" held on to their status as the lords.*

Actually, the reason why they kept the name 'lord' because none of them were actually fighting to become ruler of vietnam at that time. Originally the Nguyen had more power over the Le emperors, later the Trinh got the upper hand. The Nguyen's in an attempt to once again get the upper hand went into a long war with the Trinh. No one won, if the Nguyens won they probably would have declared themselves ruler, but they didn't before they could have the Tay Son came in and destroyed the entire family. Common vietnamese knowledge.

*Could be said so, but everyone knows that the people of Annam by a large scale cnnot defeat the whole Chinese emperor army.*

Through logic the Qing had the upper hand, BUT throughout chinese history every rebellious group who later gained control of china was the underdog like Quang Trung was. The chinese themselves knew that anything could have happened, ESPECIALLY with the support from Ming loyalists, who can capture the hearts of MANY more chinese hearts adding strenght to Quang Trung's already powerful army. If your logic ALWAYS worked, then china would be a nation of only ONE dynasty, BUT instead there are many, each one destroyed by an underdog...

*The "Le", "Trinh", and "Nguyen" was considered to have royal blood.*

I don't find that to be true, the Nguyen and Trinh families were HIGHLY regarded in the Le courts, BUT in no way were they related to the chinese bloodline of emperors. I don't think the chinese emperors at that time had enough daughters to through around at every powerful influence at that time.
General Viet Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 22:44:05 (PDT)

In the U.S, Vietnamese like to go to Indian towns for shopping, enjoying Indian food.
www.wronginfo.com Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 22:32:37 (PDT)

The TraveLLer:

"If you take a look at some photos of the Vietnamese people during the colonial days, I believe it speaks the truth during those day. Heck, take a look at the photos of the Korean, Chinese, and Japanese during the 1800's and 1900's, there is a big difference when comparing to the modern day people too."

Not true. The peasants who work day and night in the fields may not look as refined as the usual people. But I've actually seen a lot of pics of Vietnamese in the old days, Despite the fact that they are shorter, they look no different from modern Viets. An example is emperor Bao Dai, his wife Nam Phuong, his mastresses and offsprings, or Hoang Hoa Tham,Phan Chu Trinh, etc. I've seen pics of my great grand parents taken w/ their friends...they look like modern Viets..only that they 're smaller.Of course I've also seen pics of other people my friends show me, like pics of their grand parents...or the Vietnamese intellectuals 50-100 years ago in newspaper.Even chinese and koreans look no different, although i don't see a lot of their old pics. I've seen pics of chinese of the imperial family in the last century-in the 1900s, and pics of chinese moviestar in the first decades of 20th century and they look pretty much the same as now. The portraits of Vietnamese of the last centuries don't indicate they look much different. an example is the portrait of Nguyen Trai.

"I believe there was a high percentage of intermarriage between the "Viet" and the "Cham" during this era, since it was during 1800's and early 1900's"

Chams don't have flat nose, inflated nostrils, lozenge-shaped eyes. on the contrary, they have high-bridged nose, big eyes.

The site so lame cos it's very biased imo Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 21:38:25 (PDT)

What is wrong with this paragraph? Can you tell?

Vietnam is located in South East Asia. Vietnam shares north side border with Cambodia, west side border with India and east side is Indian Ocean. Since Vietnam was ruled by India for more than a thousand years, Vietnamese culture, people are heavily influenced by Indian civilization. They practice Indian Buddhism, Hindu. Vietnamese people have curly hair due to intermarriages between Indians and Vietnamese. In a study conducted by Vietnamese King Kumar Narayanan II in 1947 shows that 30% of Vietnamese have Indian blood. Vietnamese language used to be Hindi and official for thousand of years. Vietnamese ancient capital citadels in Hanoi and Hue were built with Indian style architecture.

www.wronginfo.com Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 21:32:12 (PDT)

Any loyal Viet person in here should not argue with the Traveller because the arguement will never end!! Frankly, I am Vietnamese and proud of it because I live righteously to represent my identity. I don't care if any body (like the traveller) proclaim the so-called facts that reflect my ethnicity badly. So what? I am Viet, I know I am Viet, I live and thrive to be a good Viet. No matter what REALLY happen in Vietnamese history, I live just to give the good name to Vietnamese.

To The Traveller,
You can make fun, debase, condemn, or whatever you like to call it, Vietnamese, but you must remember this, yours words are like the wind--come and go and come again, yet never last.

To General Viet, Annam Guy and some other guys whose names I couldn't recall:
When I read your posts, tears were shed. I like people like you guys. You defend our name, yet respect our adversaries' race. You represent Vietnamese well. Thanks for your altruistic words.

I am lucky to be a Vietnamese. Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 20:23:22 (PDT)

General Viet:

the Trung sisters were actually direct descendants of the Hung Kings. I've read it from several books and websites recently. One of them is Vietnamese Culture (Author: Tran Quoc Vuong).

In Vietnam, there is an annual celebration day in Hung Temple, memorating the ancient days of Hung Kings reign.

The Hung Kings were true historical figures:

http://www.nhandan.org.vn/english/history/20000930.html

Some facts Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 20:05:17 (PDT)

HOKLO TAIWANESE
Remember this, "Fools think of themselves to be wise, but wise men know themselves to be a fool." Have a peaceful 4th of july (if living in the US), and may God bless you all
Ilocano Filipino (Fil Guy 20) Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 19:51:45 (PDT)

General Viet:

the Trung sisters were actually descendants of the Hung Kings. I've read it from several books and websites recently. One of them is Vietnamese Culture (Author: Tran Quoc Vuong).

In Vietnam, there is an annual celebration day in Hung Temple, memorating the ancient days of Hung Kings reign.
Some facts Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 19:49:34 (PDT)

Continueing on to last one...

Ok, like i said, if china had supreme control over vietnam, meaning that they had a puppet ruler on our throne, then china would also have control over who was to be ruler. Why wouldn't they have just forced Quang Trung off the throne? Because they know that their power over vietnam at that moment was only symbolic, they had no power to take down a person who committed treason even if they wanted. Many examples exist, like Ngo Quyenh, Le Loi, Quang Trung etc...
General Viet Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 18:52:56 (PDT)

*Could be said so, but everyone knows that the people of Annam by a large scale cnnot defeat the whole Chinese emperor army. Is this logic enough? By the way, in the old days, people respected their emperor, thus also the Annamese Kings. This is why "Qunag Trung" is considered to be a rebel...he was in no way a royal member. Usually among royalty, they share some blood line...the same it's in Europe and elsewhere. Annam is a territory of China; therefore, it has to have bloodline of China. Hence, the marriage of the Manchu princess to Quang Trung was to make Quang Trung an royal family, since he wasn't a royal member. Blood line in the past was considered to be very important, it was to negotiate, keeping peace and help during wars. I don't know why you guys act so incomprehensive.*

WELL, I don't get your royal blood line thing, because the Le dynasty was set forth by Le Loi a rebel, who was in many cases involved in attempts of assassination. He wasn't recorded to have married a chinese women of any case. Also, like i said, even if there was no marriage in between china and vietnam, our leaders would have still been our leaders. Quang Trung defied china, and yet he was still to be approved by china. How much power does china have over vietnam showing that fact in our history?
General Viet Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 18:48:42 (PDT)

To, going _back_in_time;

Thanks, but i already knew that. Southern and part of central vietnam was incorporated later on. They were originally muslim followers who were dark skinned. Considered to be of the same blood as the khmer, but constantly came in contact and conflict. Later on the cham sacked the capital of vietnam at that time, in retalliation their empire was destroyed.

And i don't know what you mean by 500,000 people were relocated. Are you talking about the Yueh? Or are you talking about the chinese civilians one? The civilians as a fact concentrated around Guangdong more, people who were relocated in vietnam soon moved north to guangdong to stay. Because from histroy the chinese weren't accepted at that time, marriages were refused if you were of chinese descent, no matter how powerful you are. Read up on general le chan's story, she was approached by the governor of vietnam (a chinese person) to marry her, BUT her family refused and she was sent away to hide, her family was then murdered. Also the Trung Sisters kind of kicked alot of chinese people out because of fear of them helping the chinese army out in espionage. Not alot stayed. But the Yueh themselves AREN'T considered chinese people, they relocated themselves to avoid the chinese, not because they were chinese.

(To, the administrator, if the above is already submitted then just delete this, i think i pressed back after i pressed vote, but i forgot, i might not have even posted it yet)
General Viet Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 18:44:09 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

Nevertheless, doesn't those descriptions along with more of descriptions brought up by others, signifies the biased location of which that site itself has it's platform on. If a site can't even stay to CURRENT information, what makes you think that it can be correct on other information? Unelagent, small, short, big nosed. The frech at one time was also located in the north, an area where the big nose annalogy did not originate from, and from which even at that time did not exist among the majority population. If you "look" at pictures from the past, you WON'T see what the people from the past saw face to face. The pictures won't show us if they were darker, lighter or taller (i don't think they put scales on the pictures at that time, or had a person who's height IS known to compare too). Also it is VERY clear that the site itself is biased, the descriptions aren't stated as facts, but as opinion. The words elegant and ugly are words that can be desplayed in the eyes of the beholder, thus is part of opinion, prejudged opinion is biased and can consider to be inaccurate.

PLUS also the FACT that the french missionaries DIDN'T locate themselves to only the south, but more throughout the entire nation. North, central and south. That in itself can show you what they saw, what they saw also was the variation between the regions, but not stating it is a biased coverup or just leaving out info to make another seem lesser to you.
Yup Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 18:18:36 (PDT)

The Muong tribe is close to Kinh liguistically, however the physilogical traits seem to indicate they belong in Melanesian stock (petite figure, dark skin...). It was noticed the male aristocrats in the Muong look like Viets, however other Muongs and evn the women aristocrats look the same and different from Viets. During the wars, Many Viet men fled to the mountain and conquer Muong tribe, then became the leaders of the Muong . They didn't bring their family w/ them. The leaders and men aristocrats were actually Kinh, while the other, even their wifes look different from them.
Muong Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 16:19:11 (PDT)

General Viet:

The existence of Hung Kings Dynasty isn't purely about legends. They are true people in history.

An Duong Vuong, the leader of the Au Lac tribe usurped the 18th Hung King and became the new king of Vietnam. It is widely believed that the Au Lac and Lac Viet were basically the same. They have different names but they're no different from one another. Just read that from some historical books. If you'd like to know the names and authors, i'll tell you later.

Addendum to the Vietnamese feet:

One more prevalent type of feet is the one with the big toe basically sticking near to the second one, as opposed to the toe spreading apart, the bone under the big toe protruding, and more space byw the toes.

I tend not to think the feet w/ toe spread apart is Muong/Mon. My great grandma has the big toe spread apart(her feet couldn't fit into a shoe) and she's tall, light-skinned. She's very beautiful (except her feet hahhha)..J/K :P

Viet Flava Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 16:12:52 (PDT)

Going_back_in_time,

�Chinese records still showed that Viets in the middle and south of Vietnam had curly hair, and the Vietnamese history correctly recorded that southern Vietnamese kings possessed Indian names�

Vietnam has Indian Kings! I have never heard of it
That is Chinese weird thing Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 14:03:42 (PDT)

The Traveller:

"To "To the Traveller: You must be questioned first",

You posted, "I can see you were desperately find ways to defend yourself, despite you claiming your knowledge background. You asked me a question you already knew the answer. Yes it's a mythology. However it's not a fairy tale, as you've stated. Can you distinguish fairy tale and legend/mythology?*sigh*?This is not a fairy tale! you're just lost here!......."

Thanks for the good laugh. Anyway, who is/are the one(s) that wrote the Vietnamese history based on legend and myth? You have yet to answer my question. Since you are the O' mighty knowledge individual, can tell me his/her/their names? I'm still waiting."

You know it very well that it's almost impossible to trace basck who wrote the story. But it's not the main point here. ya know, whenever one focus on the sideline details beating around the bush instead of going straight to the point,he/she's on the losing side. just speak from experiences. I'm not the O mighty individual, i never proclaim myself to be so...And accept my apology if u felt insulted.

The point is they are true historical figures, as proven by tombs, temples,lineage book, etc...that's the main point here.

Do you think it's kinda foolish if i think may be the question should have been directed at you?

From newadvent.org:

"According to Annamite LEGENDS, however, their first rulers were descended from the royal house of China"

see it? now i have a qyestion for you. when you previously said "their first rulers were descended from the royal house of China", did you rely on this phrase to state that? If that's the case, you were the first to rely on legend to tell the story, not me!

Since whoever wrote this article abides by Viet LEgend to announce the ancestry of vietnamese, I have to rely on this LEGEND to prove that: according to Vietnamese legends, the first rulers were the vietnamese. I provided more details on these first rulers, and their chinese "origin". SINCE THE ARTICLE provided the info TOTALLY BASED ON LEGENDS, i had to use legend to prove and indicate their ignorance. Now did you get it?

Excuse my bad english. I tried all icould to express my opinions.I think My english is so damn bad you don't understand the points i bring up or you had a hard time reading what i wrote yersterday because it seems you haven't understood it. or you totally ignored.

Beg you to read my post again. if you come off as not reading anything at all, i won't respond to you anymore.
Get straight to the topic! Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 14:01:38 (PDT)

General Viet,

Now, where did I state that Quang Trung is not a Tay Son?

I'm sorry that I busted your heart to not have a "giao Chi" feet. From reading most of your post, you don't even know what is "Giao Chi", and yet you claimed to be a Vietnamese...what kind of ridiculous is this?

The TraveLLer Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 13:02:27 (PDT)

General Viet,

It's so funny that you claimed that you are a descendant of king Gia long. Hell, during the chinese evacuation to Vietnam during the wars, some changed their last name to "Nguyen" to make easy for survival.
Do you have any fact documentation by chance?

Thanks in advance for your response.

The TraveLLer Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 12:52:39 (PDT)

you peepo should just email eachother back n forth. its easier that way. teehhee.

i think viets look great. japs look good too but hear that too many of them get plastic surgery. so not sure if its natural or not.

a lot of viet guys have really nice facial features, not talking about the body though.
Moonshineprincess http://moonshineprincess.50megs.com Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 12:50:09 (PDT)

To the "Get the fact straight!",

"Muong is not an indian tribe. They belong in the 100 yueh tribes. The 'indians' were the chams inhabiting as far as the central-southern areas of Vietnam. Actually the muong language is said to be closely related to vietnamese.

give u a link for u to see what the muong look like, quite different from 'indian'.
http://www.vietnamtourism.com/e_pages/vietnam/introduction/people_customer/fr_national.htm

as for the Giao Chi feet, it is not extinct, if you talk about the ffet w/ big toe spread apart. Both my grandmas got this feet, however none of their offsprings have it. Go to rural areas in VN and you'll see it there! this i don't have to lie. what i'm saying is 100% true."

Then prove it. The Muong's in Vietnam were considered by the majority to be indians or nomads.
The TraveLLer Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 12:43:47 (PDT)

General Viet,

I see you are in the state of denial here.

You posted,>>> "*�In foreign relations, the Nguyen kings recognized the symbolic authority of Beijing,...*

EVEN if that was right, the word symbolic means that china was well, symbolic with no actual power. Kind of like the queen of england to australia and canada right now, the queen has no control over what they do, but she can say whatever she wants and we have to hear her out, but at the end we do whatever we want. Symbolic, Symbolic, Symbolic...."<<<<

Wrong again, you just don't want to take the time and ask some historian. That's okay, if you don't want to admit the fact. I posted this website for you to read from this Vietnamese person at Sorbonne University, at least he knows his material when presenting to the world. His credential is well established, since this was done by the Sorbonne University in Paris, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes. His credential could be equate or exceed to those in the PhD.

Click on: http://www.vninfos.com/vninfos/selection/histoire/Attraction_et_repulsion.html
From his article, he stated, "But, if the Vietnamese succeeded in maintaining their independence over the centuries in spite of the Chinese emperors� persistent endeavours to enforce their authority over the country, it was largely because China had come to understand that whatever she coveted in Vietnam it did not merit the price demanded for it. Hence, the tributary relationship was maintained, which from the Chinese standpoint meant the ties were those of suzerain and vassal, from the Vietnamese of independent, �sovereign� (though in power terms unequal) states. Strict observance of the rules and courtesies of this relationship on the Vietnamese side contributed to peaceful coexistence. However, the relations determined by the tributary system were not relations between two equal states, but resulted from a complex arrangement that, even though not specifically expressed by any treaty, was nonetheless based on personal ties between the sovereigns of the two countries. Such an understanding implied the tacit agreement by China as the suzerain to lend assistance to her vas�sal in case of need, and the tacit acceptance by the latter of certain ritual obligations, above all the duty of sending periodical tribute to the Chinese court. The tribu�tary status was not granted to Vietnam as a state, but to its sovereign who in principle obtained his legitimacy from the investiture by the Chinese emperor. Through this investiture, the Chinese Son of Heaven solemnly declared the one on whom he bestowed the title of �prince of the state of Annam� worthy through his loyalty and piety of governing his country. The investi�ture, there�fore, cre�ated dependency of some sort, but simultaneously contributed to the establishment of the legitimacy of the Vietnamese monarch with the help of the great neighbouring country."

This is the true relationship between Annam and China. The author also acknowledged that there are many Vietnamese writers who tried to make the elit class of Vietnamese felt like they are at the equal status as the Chinese empire; however, this has proven to be wrong since China emperor is the one who declared the King of Annam.

Upon his next statement, we wrote, "Originating in the conquests of Han times, Chinese suze�rainty, right down to the nineteenth century, was asserted in regard to Vietnam�ese territory rather than the Vietnamese people. It pertained not only to the tradition�ally eth�nocentric and moralistic view of China as master of tian xia (天下 all under heaven), but it was also quite definite in north Vietnam, which had formed part of the ling tu 領土 or �contiguous land� of the Han and the Tang.[19] Following Vietnam�s independence, Chinese intervention focused mainly on resto�ring Vietnamese princes deposed by their subjects. Indeed, the issue of legiti�macy persisted as a Chinese concern right through to the modern period. Even the action of the Yong-le Emperor in 1407 was intended to take a disorderly vassal in hand, when its ruler appealed for help, and to put it firmly in order once and for all. During the reign of the Qing dynasty, Viet�nam had been one of the three or four states most faithful in presenting tribute to the court in Peking. And on several occasions imperial arms had been sent to Viet�namese ter�ritory, at the request of the Vietnamese sovereign, to suppress local bandits. Until the nine�teenth century, these facts, together with the long historical relationship and cultural and racial ties, were con�sidered by the Chinese as sufficient proof of China�s ineffaceable suzerainty in Vietnam."

In this statement, he stated as I have mentioned about the relationship of all the Annamese kings king (even Quang Trung) to the Chinese empire, as a vassal, "The tributary system, nevertheless, satisfied the fundamental interests of the two sides. For China, it consti�tuted a clever and economical means of action to retain within the orbit of her influence an adjoining country that she did not deem practical to control directly. It allowed her on the other hand to have at her disposal a respectful vassal that would assist her in maintaining social order on her southern flank. For their part, the sovereigns of Vietnam were clearly aware of the necessity for them to accept their tributary status, in order to forestall China�s direct interference in their internal affairs. Moreover, it was in the interest of the Vietnamese court to forfeit a part of its sovereignty in return for the guarantee that in the event of a revolt of its own subjects it would be able to enjoy China�s support � for China would be held morally responsi�ble for the pro�tection of the legitimate dynasty she had recognized �, and that in peacetime it would not run the risk of seeing the Chinese intervene to con�quer and to directly rule the country. Besides, the Vietnamese governing elite were not reluc�tant to consent to this vassal�age in so far as it enabled them to benefit from the ensuing mate�rial and cultural benefits: the embassies sent to the Chi�nese court provided the opportunity to bring back literary and scientific books, not to mention the profits stemming from a little sideline trading. "

I know it's hard to swallow, but the truth is the truth.

As for the "Nguyen", I don't know where you get the "Ruan" from. Anyhow, you should be cautioned, as I mentioned before, when you don't know the Chinese character. There are several words that sound similar, but when writting it's different in chacater. Just be careful with the "Nguyen" with accent from the "Nguyen" without accent...they both written in different strokes. Like I said, if you want to be a true historian, you have to accept the fact,,,even if it hurts to know the truth. Go and learn Chinese or old Vietnamese, try to read from the old text in ancient chinese character rather than the new ones, since most of the new ones are written by today's nationalist. Some of today's nationalist writers cannot even write the old language, this is pathetic...

Be well
The TraveLLer Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 12:35:58 (PDT)

tartar,

Ainus have both Mongolid genes and Mongolid phenotype. In Yoshio Koya's book about the Ainu race about 100 of the "most pure-bred looking" Ainus are depicted. More than half of them look typically Mongolid combined with typical body-hair,eyebrows etc;a few guys looked like a light-weight variant of Polynesians. No individual showed more "caucasian" characteristics than the average Polynesian.
rare stuff Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 12:08:39 (PDT)

General Viet,

Sorry to say this, but you are dead wrong about the feet thing. Please ask any Vietnamese historian about the "Giao Chi" feet.

BTW, what make you say that 70,000 Vietnamese have the feet that you described? I spent more than 2 months in Vietnam, from Hainoi, Hai Phong Nha Trang, Cam rang, Saigon, Ca mau, Can Tho and Ha Tien...still, what you described is totally off the scale. I was also there last year.

There is one feet commonly known to the Vietnamese..that is "Vietnam Giao Chi". Stop before you make a fool out of yourselves.
The TraveLLer Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 11:22:05 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

That site as a whole looks down miserably at the vietnamese. TRUST me not all viets looked like that back then, i can personally say so. The frech came in around a few hundred years ago, and i have pictures of my great grandfather, my grandfather, my grandfather, and they CAN'T be described like that. I'm described to look like my grandfather (no, he wasn't short, he also didn't have a flat nose, and all that bullshit). Also the not elegant part, not elegant? That just sheds the tears, so much false generalizations, but then again, i am mostly from the north... But from that site you can see that there is prejudice against the viets, almost hatred.

I know that alot of chinese people were relocated into southern china and northern vietnam. But they WEREN'T accepted into vietnamese society at all, A LOT who were located in northern vietnam moved north to southern china. Read the true story of general le chan. Her parents were killed because they refused to give her handot a 'chinese bandit' when he was the governor of vietnam atm. She was one of the original organizers to help the Trung Sisters. Also, i got thinks messed up (half a sleep but bored and couldn't sleep so i got things mixed up), it wasn't the first governor who carried the Nguyen last name, but it was a governor later on (just to say before anyone bashes me in for a mistake).

General Viet Tuesday, July 02, 2002 at 11:14:46 (PDT)

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