Comparing Asian Nationalities | Asian American Poll

COMPARING ASIAN NATIONALITIES
(Updated Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:39:09 AM to reflect the 100 most recent valid responses.)

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WHAT YOU SAY

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Korean studies describe Korean heads as short and face index as middle type.This is also my experience how South Koreans look like. In the text Manchu heads are described as short,but faces as narrow type. This is the way Western anthropologists describe Turanian race. In this case I could not prove what is the truth.I've once seen a documentary film about Manchuria in which unusually light-skinned people were predominate who had the features as the Chinese further in the South.So there were no individuals with short heads and narrow faces by the same time.Short heads correlated with broad faces and long heads with narrow faces in the exhibited part of Manchuria.The same with all photos of Manchus which I've ever seen: there's no incident for any closer relationship to Central Asians.Then again some historians connect Manchus with Central Asian RACE.

So,if anybody has seen how the real Manchus look like, are they more like Turanians or like Northeastern Han?
who's manchu? Wednesday, July 10, 2002 at 08:18:03 (PDT)

To, We dont all look the same! ;

I feel you man, but generalizing isn't really a great thing to do. Most koreans don't look like their brotherings, most viets don't look like theirs, and also the chinese. In china, the north is taller, the south is shorter (shorther then the korean average, yup guangdong is shorter) so when you say the chinese are the tallest, it's kind of weird, because at some areas where also the shortest.
Hmmm, try not to use the word oriental. Did you know that originally it meant wildlike or beast, or something like that, so it's kind of degrading. Also the northern viets aren't dark at all, and on those DNA tests the viets who had the common haploid with chinese were from the south (darker people). The northern brothers were tested in some other test i saw, which showed a lesser relation between them and the 'han' blood. So i don't see what you mean by the smaller eyes, thin lips, lighter skin being of the oriental breed (which you ONLY included china, korea and japan, so i'm refering to oriental in this post as only those). The koreans i know have deeper eyes, smaller eyes, more rigid features, and such. But hey, i know as you said, that your describing the asians in Queens NY.

I'm part viet part chinese. But if i said that i looked korean would you believe me? Probably no, maybe yes. But the features are so diverse within each group that the guidlines you provided aren't even close. The variations from region is so diverse, classifying chinese as only chinese (instead of by region) is a crime (figuratively speaking of course)...
Looking Away Wednesday, July 10, 2002 at 02:12:16 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

"It seems to me that you don't know much about the Vietnam's history. yet, all you hear is from your family member who seem to be a nationalist nowadays."

Even though it's not directed at me, but all i've got to say that i've gotten from your posts so far is bullcrap. Insults, baby talk, no intelligence. It's nice to know that everywhere there's an idiot, it makes me feel smart (just kidding, don't get offended, i just couldn't hold back, i don't really mean it, it just came out). Lol, i've read some of the posts from the first time i've been here (a few weeks ago).

Ok, the argument brought forth by the other 'debators' seemed to be more valid then yours seem to be. I've read most of those SITES presented by the viet debators. All i got was that vietnam was forced to be under chinese rule, that the influence was unwanted. They fought like heck to get away from chinese rule, but alas they were still weaker then the chinese and continued to pay tribute. Wars have broken out to take direct control of vietnam, but the vietnamese resisted thus the existance of vietnam today. Most of vietnam's heroes are the ones that fought against the chinese and vietnamese. The vietnamese language and culture was restricted even banned at a point in history, boys were castrated, women were raped, men were killed for their loyalty to the vietnamese leaders, intellectuals were shushed, everyone was shut out of eachothers society (mutual hatred).

From argument this is what i got. The chinese had some power over vietnam after it got it's independence due to it's relatively larger and more powerful army which scared vietnam. BUT through the test of time, dynasties thereafter have never actually succeeding to incorporate it directly into it's territory, but due to it's relatively more powerful army vietnam still continued to pay tribute. Like the mongol invasion but after that vietnam still paid tribute to avoid another war. Also from other peoples argument i find that china had no REAL power over vietnam. Ok look at all the heroes who became kings by destroying chinese fleets, and yet the chinese can't make them lose the throne. Le Loi and Quang Trung (read up to there so far) were rebellious figures who supported china's total withdrawal from vietnam. They were never kicked off the throne, but in some cases they were even accepted DISPITE the obvious history they had of resisting china. For example Quang Trung, who the chinese even had a princess to marry him to solidify his reign over vietnam, knowing that by doing so it only strengthens a foes powers to resist. C'mon, doesn't that just show right there the power they had over vietnam?

And i've read somewhere that someone said that the Trinh and Nguyen were originally the same family, BUT in fact Le Loi asked each family to join him in his fight SEPARATELY. Even at that time, the Trinh had a grudge against the Nguyen. The Trinh generals and Nguyen generals competed to have more influence on the reigning monarch. And please tell me, IF they were truly originally ONE family what name did they go by? Why did they break up? What proof do you have either then whinners in a pub?

From this "http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/humnet/ealc/faculty/dutton/TSHome.html" I found support for what i was saying. It's a report on the Tay Son rebellion, NOT AN ESSAY, just a report (to tell us what happened, which in every good report shouldn't hold any opinions but just raw facts).

It says there, that the Nguyen and Trinh wars occured because of a switch in power from the guidence of the Nguyen lords to the Le, to the tyranny of the Trinh lords over the Le emperors. In an attempt to restore powers to the Le, the Nguyen waged war against the Trinh to vanquish the family that held the throne on a leesh. The noble attempts by the Nguyen lasted for years, then the Tay Son stood up to stop the damaging war, in it's process killing all the descendents of BOTH families, except for one man, Nguyen Anh. Later Nguyen Anh killed all of Quang Trung's family (except for the possible cousin no one knows about of course). Nguyen Anh through the fear of Quang Trung got the support of the chinese and the french. Nguyen Anh favored the chinese, but his son Minh Mang did not, who in turn killed missionaries starting the the war that killed vietnams independence. In desperate need, Minh Mang asked china for help, who did not deny his plea. It soon became a sino-viet-french war, with the chinese and vietnamese fighting on one side against the french. The french later won, and made up a treaty to notify vietnam's TOTAL independence of ALL other states, ESPECIALLY the chinese. Except for the fact that vietnam's new powers is now controlled by the french, when vietnam's total independence came through, the only leesh left on the tiger of vietnam is the french leesh and wipe. Every year from then resistance broke out against the french, never had the french had a year that was comforting (figuratively speaking, of course a rebellion takes time, like ten years to organize). Many heroes are born, many died.

Man, that's some rough history vietnamese people have. But hey, me being chinese-viet (mother's viet, father's chinese. My mother died giving birth to me somehow, my father doesn't like to talk about it), it doesn't matter. And i need to get a job (kidding), i have too much time on my hands to reply to other peoples stuff. Man. But hey atleast it's getting a bit intersting...

To, General Viet;

Those are some nice arguments you have, but i see that the traveller is bent on some insulting competition quest against you. Lol, it's kind of funny about some of his arguments. But oh well.

Good luck on your fifth time travelling to vietnam, i think you should be called the traveller because you seem to travel like crazy. HAHAHA...

Just got to say, your feet argument seems to be very valid. The traveller claims that the feet with the index toe (i think that's what people call the second toe) is longer then the normally bigger one closest to the center of the body. BUT then why does all my viet family side have it? Including yours (from what i can conclude from your posts) and that of Hanoi, Haiphong, Na Trang, Saigon, Quang Nhai etc... When i went to the beach of Nha Trang to visit the cite of my mothers death i almost cried. Vietnam is truly beautiful, the girls too... When i was at the beach, i noticed peoples type of feet because once when i was a child, a fortunteller said that because of my feet my mother died. So i was bent on asking people about their mothers when they had my feet, it was kind of a problem because, well, everyone in vietnam is under 25 years old (something like 60% of vietnam is under 25 yrs old, crazy i know), and most of their parents are still alive (no comparing to see how many of their parents died first), so i couldn't really compare to see if it's my toes that killed my mother. Plus it seemed to be so common i can just ask someone wearing shoes and have a fifty percent chance of getting those feet. BUT i was fifteen then, i now know that fortunetelling is BOGUS. NOT TRUE, i didn't kill my mother, but my mother was giving birth to a baby and where she was at there was no medication for her to survive, if there was sufficient medication she would have survived.

Sorry for telling you about my story, but i'm bored right now, nice talking to yah.

Truong Chung (hmmm, i don't see any of your leaving a trademark, so i guess i'll just leave it once)

Looking Away Wednesday, July 10, 2002 at 02:02:52 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

"It's no wonder the French when occupied Vietnam considered the Vietnamese as "IGNORANT"."

Lol, ignorant? That's another bias. What makes it funny is that it's coming from a viet. Plus what does the french know? C'mon, they controlled vietnam for about a hundred years, but never have they controlled it with stability and without discontent.
Looking Away Wednesday, July 10, 2002 at 01:20:49 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

*We are acquainted with the family of the former president of S. Vietnam, "Nguyen Van Thieu".*

Cool, we might know eachother, i have friends and relatives in boston who is close to him personally before he died. They talk and such about the olden days with eachother A LOT. What is your father's name? We might be family friends for all i know...
Yup Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 21:28:22 (PDT)

To, General Viet;

I asked some of my friends who were doctors in vietnam during the days before the war, and they say that the feet called 'giao chi' does still exist today (or atleast during their times). I described to him the types of feet you talked about. He says they belong to the much acclaimed Red River Delta people, ranging from the Son Vi to today. The type you have (second toe longer) he says to be very common among the kinh population in vietnam at his day, and even during his days there were news of finds in the Phu To region that proves of the existance of that type of toe during the Son Vi era as a majority during that era. The other types of which you described were found during later cutlures. My friend says that he can speculate that the other feets came in through migrations later on. The Yueh (viet) later moved in with giao chi feet, but was said to have assimilated into the dong son (or vice verca).

But hey, that's what i got from a friend. His name is Dr. Tran Quoc Dung, maybe you've heard of him, i think he wrote a few books in vietnamese...
Yup Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 21:21:42 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

*I am aware that there are some civilizations that inhabited in the northern part of Vietnam, but these populations may be decreased in size*

It is true that the north american natives did get smaller in size, BUT as a fact their numbers today are still larger then the past (atleast in Canada). The reason for the 'vanishing' of some tribes was because of the OPEN attempts on the genocide of these tribes. I heard of this massacre in Peru, where in one day 10 thousand people died from the hands of a hundred, but that was because of OPEN attempts on destroying them. In brazil there were attempts on killing the natives there by giving them blankets infested with disease, MANY tribes totally VANISHED due to that, but mostly the population would fall by an average of atleast 75% (due to the fact that most of these diseases are unknown to the natives and their immune system knows no knowledge of how to fight the illness, btw most are just normal illnesses, not even disease and they kill that much already).

BUT the dong son were openly accepted. Proof is the traditions carried on by fishermen and farmers (which of who's descendents compose of the majority in vietnam today, as vietnam is mostly rural not urban). They carried on many traditions not attributed to the Yueh but to the dong son like tattoing of the body, animalism (the kinh themselves practiced this once). Also the agricultural techniques which were found to be similar to the people of the delta. It is said that the Yueh moved south, but they WERE openly killed in several occations of which at many times making them an even smaller minority group. But the Dong Son reigned on and on, traditions and such were carried on. Stories were mixed with some Yueh ones but, most of the viet stories today can be proven by the evidence in escavated sites in vietnam today. Like the Hung Vuong era can be described by the times in between the Son Vi and the Dong Son almost to the exact (leaving out the Yueh incorporation to the story by adding in the Au Co part).
General Viet Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 21:14:51 (PDT)

We don't look the same,
Chinese are the tallest??? Are you nuts? How can this be since most Chinese Americans are from the southern parts of China where they tend to be shorter than their Northern counterparts. Alot of the time I can't tell the difference between Chinese Americans and Vietnamese Americans.
Your assumptions are only partly accuate.

Verdict Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 19:35:21 (PDT)

Just wanted to say, It's amazing that Asians account for most of the World's population and yet we are subjugated to the imperialistic sabotage of our: people, culture, and history. This is done by people who are not the 'majority' by population, but 'majority' by manipulation. Perhaps one day, things will be more 'equitable'.
look at yourself Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 15:16:30 (PDT)

It seems like General Viet and Hafti are the same person....

Look at the similarity between the both. Hmmm?

Hafti posted: "Lol, your going nuts here brother..."

General Viet posted: "Lol, your going nuts eh? I didn't say that the Trung Sisters had more power or say then the chinese...."

Take a look at this for a moment...

The type of writing and grammar are in a similar pattern. Even twin cannot produce this type of style.

Now, I know how low this guy is...
The TraveLLer Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 12:27:20 (PDT)

ive been to vietname its a hellhole. Japan, i find, is much more civilized, clean, beautiful.
Mz. big booty AZN Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 11:06:59 (PDT)

To Canton-Chinese American:

You posted, "You seem to have a good point there, i checked up on the sources you've given and what you say does make sence. If the chinese courts had so much power they would have taken leaders like Quang Trung and Le Loi off the throne, since through the eyes of the chinese courts at that time they were traitors. But instead they accepted them as rulers of Annam. What does that say about the true power of china over Annam at that time? It actually was very small, but only symbolic through the means of acceptance."

You are truly wrong on your part. It was Quang Trung who presented himself to the emperor of China. With that to say, I have previously mentioned and added one of the paragraph from the Sorbonne University, which also stated the same thing I did, that the emperor of China would not mind who rule his territory, Annam, as long as they paid tribune and obtained order to the territory.

This is how it worked:
"The tribu�tary status was not granted to Vietnam as a state, but to its sovereign who in principle obtained his legitimacy from the investiture by the Chinese emperor. Through this investiture, the Chinese Son of Heaven solemnly declared the one on whom he bestowed the title of �prince of the state of Annam� worthy through his loyalty and piety of governing his country."

Click on: http://www.vninfos.com/vninfos/selection/histoire/Attraction_et_repulsion.html
Therefore, Quang Trung did appealed to the emperor of China. At first, the emperor of China rejected Quang Trung, due to his rebellion, but he then reconciled because the threat of Ming loyalists were to great.

The TraveLLer Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 10:59:33 (PDT)

To, viet flava;

Hey, i believe that the Hung Vuong era was real. But not Au Co or her husband. The Hung Vuong era can be outlined by the times of the rulers of the Delta people very well, also escavations showed some early temples and tombs to be of surprising proximaty with the legends. But Au Co and such is probably an added on part of the original more believable legend of the Hung Vuong...

General Viet Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 10:24:52 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

And like i said, the other types of feet weren't "Giao Chi" but an attribute to the Red River Delta Cultures (ex. Dong Son). The reason WHY the Dong Son is considered to be one of our primary ancestors is because of the fact that they were so widely spread, they even had influence on the development of the Tibetans and mixed with another huge migration of people moving in from somewhere north (probably the old han). They were also of great number. The Yueh were likely to have been assimilated to them, hence the reasons for the old traditions like tattoing and animalism. These practices were given up later on, somewhere at the end of chinese reign to after. IF the yueh killed off a great deal of Delta people, it would have atleast been recorded, or through the escavations it would have atleast been hinted to. But no it wasn't, this only shows two posibilities, they moved when the Yueh came in or they mixed with the Yueh. The option of moving was very slim because it would have also been recorded to be a 'great' migration, since their neighbors would have atleast recorded it happening. The 'Giao Chi' may be an attribute of the olden Yueh, but of the modern viet i don't know.

*ps, i still find it funny that you don't believe me that my feet are normal. Ok, you go to a VIETNAMESE immagrant, or an older person and ask about my feet, and you'll know. PLUS i don't have to prove it to you, your just another person out there that isn't worth speaking too. PLUS i'm going to vietnam, and have been their numerous times, i would know what i hear as an answer when i ask a question from a doctor there or a professor*
General Viet Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 10:20:35 (PDT)

Scholars have advocated various theories about the origin of the Ainu people. The theories include the Caucasoid (Caucasian) Theory, the Mongoloid Theory, the Oceania Race Theory, the Old Asian Race Theory, and the Solitary Race Theory. Some scholars have recently advocated the following hypothesis into which the Mongoloid Theory has developed. Mongoloid peoples once were of two types : Southern Mongoloid and Northern Mongoloid. Before the Jomon Period (several tens of thousands of years ago), the Southern Mongoloid started moving northward and settled the Japanese archipelago, including Okinawa, over a long period of time. Later, the Southern Mongoloid played a major role in the Jomon Period throughout Japan. However, in the Yayoi and Tumulus Periods, the Northern Mongoloid came across the sea to Japan in great numbers. The ethnic Japanese (non-Ainu) are the people who have evolved rapidly through the strong influences of these migratory processes. On the other hand, the Ainu in Hokkaido and the Tohoku region and the Ryukyu people in Okinawa are the ones who have hardly affected by this process.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------http://www.education.town.shimizu.hokkaido.jp/shimizu-j/3RD%20GRADE%20TRIP.HTM
ainu Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 08:11:04 (PDT)

The impact of Malayo-Polynesian culture on Japan is so obvious that nobody should deny it: the sound and rhythm of the Japanese language sounds even to a lay like myself much like the sound of Indonesian languages.I've seen/heard a "Matsuri" on TV where the Japanese spoke and sang in a way similar to Javanese or Balinese.Also the Japanese discipline during rituals resemble that of Malayo-Polynesian cultures with a noble-class.Nevertheless the Japanese are mainly of North Asian race and mentality and show therefore simple tastes and less explosive temperaments.
rare stuff Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 07:51:50 (PDT)

In fact, "Kennewick Man" is an important addition to the growing body of evidence which suggests that during the period of the Upper Paleolithic, between about 10,000 and 35,000 years ago, Whites � i.e., men indistinguishable from modern Europeans � lived not only in Europe, but also in a band stretching across northern Asia to the Pacific. In Siberia and other eastern regions they were eventually displaced and absorbed by Mongoloid peoples, although isolated pockets of European genes have survived in northern Asia until this day. The mixed-race Ainu people of Japan are an example.

http://members.netnormal.com/library/china.htm

Ainu Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 07:22:28 (PDT)

The treal truth,

Do you have any source claiming Ainus are Australoid? Generally they are4 classified as mongoloid but the pure-bred Ainus I'm not sure what category they fit in, although i did read on several sources they look very much like whites.

just take a look at this pic of an Ainu man.

http://phototravels.net/japan/pcd0733/ainu-full-93.html

k Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 07:19:12 (PDT)

rarestuff:

"Last but not least I suppose that there are less hairy people in East Asia because of genocide: when people with bald bodies and better weapons arrived they discriminated against the hairy people, e.g. they could call them "werewolves".

??????? Could it be possible that there are less one eyelid people in Europe also because of genocide? I'm sorry but i'm not very convinced of what you supposed.

The real truth:

hm...I think you're kinda going beyond the point here. I actually have no clue what issue we are talking about. Ainu people or origin of Yaoi?
A lot Japanese people i've seen are even whiter than whites. A question: what ethnic (yaoi,jomon,ainu,...) do you think these peoples belong in?

k Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 07:09:35 (PDT)

General Viet,

I am still waiting to know what happened to the "Nguyen" before 940 A.D.. Can you provide me a website or a link, at least? Still waiting....
The TraveLLer Tuesday, July 09, 2002 at 02:28:16 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

"Since you are the one who kept saying that the modern Vietnamese were descendant of the Dong Son Vi please provide me your logically proofs. You have yet to post any support to your claims. There's one website that stated that the Dong Son Vi may have been perished or integrated with the "Yueh" or "Viet". If there are some descendants to the Dong Son Vi's, the closest ethnic nowadays may be the "Muong", but they may also have been mixed with the "Yueh"."

OMG! That's what i said! The Dong Son ARE considered to be ONE of our ancestors not the FULL ancestors of us. As you can see the vietnamese people TODAY have MANY different ancestors. ONCE AGAIN, you DIDN'T read my posts! C'mon. I said that the Dong Son BEFORE the Yueh came in were of greater number then the Yueh, i don't know what would have happened to the Dong Son. But because of their GREAT numbers they shouldn't have perished but atleast be one of our ancestors. And due to RECENT archaelogical finds through bone structure the similarities ARE there. Like i said, 'Giao Chi' feet was an attribute of the Yueh. Also like i said, anything could have occured during the assimilation of the Yueh into the Dong Son culture. Evidence of the Dong Son being a more powerful influence on the Yueh, is animalism AND tattoes. These only stopped recently (not quite but after chinese domination of vietnam). They would have mixed. Your just about restating what i am saying to make it seem like i didn't say it. And i also stated a few other theories of which i don't prefer, but i guess you didn't read them either did you?

Also the treaty thing, can you give me a place in vietnam that has more information on it? I'm pretty sure there is atleast one place that has more information on it. I'm going to vietnam once again for a visit, and i can clear alot of things up.

Just to say, there is NO SUCH THING as Dong Son Vi. Only Son Vi, who is the culture that was around 22 thousand years ago. And dong son, a descendent of the Son Vi, but evolved a different culture hence under a different name. Just to say before you go around saying Dong Son Vi and no one knows what your saying.

*BTW, the Trung sisters were during 40-43 A.D., not 5 A.D. as you posted in one of your posts. Please, go and read some history rather than making faulty assumption. The Dong Son Vi people, if they still do exist they might be in the minority group, they are not the 90% of the Vietnamese that you claimed.*

I wasn't sure on the 'date' that was why i said AROUND. PLUS it wasn't about their REIGN, BUT their speech, which should be a bit earlier then their reign. So i just said AROUND, AND NO EXACT DATE.

*It seems to me that you don't know much about the Vietnam's history. yet, all you hear is from your family member who seem to be a nationalist nowadays. I'm not too suprise, that's something I expected from you. It's no wonder the French when occupied Vietnam considered the Vietnamese as "IGNORANT".

During the Vietnam war, our family is considered to be a loyalist to the South Vietnam Government. We are acquainted with the family of the former president of S. Vietnam, "Nguyen Van Thieu".

There is only one descriptive "Toe" that's specifically determine a "Viet"...that's "Giao Chi".*

Lol, the ONLY reason why i resulted to asking my dad is because he was studying to be a doctor in vietnam. HE WOULD know more about what's normal to the vietnamese people then some doctor in france would. Also my family IS a loyalist to democracy. BUT never have we denied our past. Like i said, EVEN IF i was chinese, denying it is not i would do, but i wouldn't embrass it because it was probably put into me through a rape of some sort of one of my female ancestors. I wouldn't try to back up a rapist who left after he enjoyed himself, but i would rather be loving to the victim. Also my uncle is a doctor who just came over from vietnam, he may not be some famous doctor who has contributed a great deal before the war and lives in france, BUT he was educated in vietnam, and i trust him because he was trained in vietnam and should know about the vietnamese body better then some american weirdo. Also one of my cousin is half muong (through marriage, so i'm not muong just him), i can refer to his dad, who is a lawyer now, BUT before that he was training to be a doctor but reversed his goals to lawyer to help the unjust be just.
General Viet Monday, July 08, 2002 at 22:46:09 (PDT)

To "go straight to the point":

You posted, "2.newadvent.org refer to the RULERS which doesn't imply it has to be an imperial constitution. HUng kings or AN DUong Vuong were the first rulers, not Trieu Da."

When using the term "Viet Nam", it addressed mainly to the history and population of "Viet" or "Yueh" ethnic, not the Lac state. It's no doubt that the Au Lac state was there first, but being a "Viet" meaning to be a "Yueh"(Chinese pinyin style of writing). During the battle between the "Ch'u", the "Yueh" and the "Shu", many "Yueh" and "Shu"(Thuc) migrated to the south and settled into the Red Delta Valley. The "Shu or Thuc" captured the "Dong Son's" territory led by king "An Duong" and renamed it "Au Lac" state.

It was not until later that "Zhao Tuo or Trieu Da", after conquering the territory, recalled the "Nam Viet or Nan Yueh" empire. Thus, the basic foundation of the letter "Viet" in "Vietnam" derived from the "Nam Viet" state, not by the "Au Lac" state. If it was named after An Duong's empire, the name of today's Vietnam would have been called the "Lac Nam" or "Au Lac Nam". This is rather confusing, but it does make sense in certain order of the early settlers. Good question though.

Here, we see four types of ethnic living in the same territory. However, I tend to believe that the Dong Son people were gradually decreasing in number after losing their territory to many ethnics(the Shu, Yueh, Qin/Ch'in and Han) from the North. Therefore, In my opinion, the majority of the modern Vietnamese's are not the descendants of the Dong Son people; although, they were probably one of the first to establish a niche and culture in the northern part of Vietnam. That's why, in my first post,

I stated that there are no such thing as a real "Viet"...since the original "Viet" or "Yueh" people were originated from the southern part of the Yangtze river. Please don't confuse the "Viet" from the "Dong Son", they are two separate clans.

Key note: The real name of "Yangtze river" is "Chang jiang", or in Vietnamese it's "Truong Giang". "Yangtze" or "Duong Tu(in Vietnamese)" is part of "Chang Jiang". However, most of the westerners know "Chang Jiang" as "Yangtze".

Here's one example:
Why didn't the US called its country the "Mohican Land" or "American Indians Land"?
Likewise, the name was given by the European settlers who had captured the new territory, not by the local people.

Perhaps, the Dong son's population is gradually decreasing after the "Yueh" and other Chinese ethnics settled in the red river valley.

Here's a website that discussed the shift of the population in the Red River Valley: http://www.hawaii.edu/cseas/pubs/vietnam/vietnam.html

Tell me what you think.

The TraveLLer Monday, July 08, 2002 at 18:29:33 (PDT)

We dont all look the same,

Interesting observation. I found this interesting article from December 1941 Life Magazine (right after Pearl Harbor). It was entitled "How To Tell The Differ Between A Jap & A Chinese?" There were pictures of Japanese and Northern Chinese. The showed that the Japanese were hairer, shorter legs, longer torso (they were showing pictures of General Tojo and soldiers- and labeled them as the "peasant class"). They were said to have larger jawlines, as well, but the Northern Chinese had smaller jawline and longer legs.

They also wrote that the Southern Chinese (most of the Chinese in America) were shorter than the Northern Chinese who at that time they claimed averaged 5'7", with darker skin and whe older resembled more the Japanese (which I laughed at that comment).

Well, I'm a Taiwanese-American, so supposedly have more Southern Chinese genes mixed with some Taiwanese plains aborigines (not mountain aborigines). In some ways, I have to so called "stereotypical Japanese" build- I have shorter legs and longer torso, plus a square jaw line, tan skin, larger double eyelid.

MY POINT: there are many exceptions to these stereotypical looks. I am often told I don't look Taiwanese. There are many Asians like me also who do not fit the stereotypical look of their ethnicity.
Taiwanese Often Mistaken For Being Filipino Monday, July 08, 2002 at 18:19:30 (PDT)

General Viet,

Here's to you, the ignorant person who seems to have no idea how many Vietnamese's were butchered to rebel against the French invaders. Yet, the French labelled them as "Pirate". Man, you need to learn your history precisely! You are such a disgrace to the Vietnamese.

[IMG]http://nguyentl.free.fr/autrefois/resistance/yt-dau-lau.jpg[/IMG]

Or click on: http://nguyentl.free.fr/autrefois/resistance/yt-dau-lau.jpg

here's what this m_ron wrote in answering to my post. >>>>*During the French occupation, Chinese opera were confiscated, Han language was prohibited in some degree and resistances were beheaded. Old annals and history records were destroyed, so that colonization would be less difficult. French purpose of separating the Chinese culture to Vietnam was to control the rulers of Vietnam. In addition, they divided the three regions of Vietnam. That is why many rebelled the French during this era.*<<<<

GV--->Once again NO backup but an editorial.<----

Really?

The TraveLLer Monday, July 08, 2002 at 16:32:33 (PDT)

General Viet:

Click on this site:

http://nguyentl.free.fr/autrefois/resistance/dau-doc31908.jpg

Tell me what do you see??!!!!!

Yet, you are so ignorant.
The TraveLLer Monday, July 08, 2002 at 14:55:37 (PDT)

To Viet Flava:

>>>>Empress Nam Phuong, reknown for her beauty and charm, was a Vietnamese woman. Her real name is Nguyen Huu Thi Lan.

I've seen pics of my greatgrand father, grandparents who are 100 % viet and they don't look much different....biased...<<<

Bias or not, you'll be the judge!!!

Click on this website for some images:

http://nguyentl.free.fr/html/sommaire_photo_ancienne_fr.htm

History starts with an open mind....
The TraveLLer Monday, July 08, 2002 at 14:35:18 (PDT)

To General Viet, who stated, "
Obviously the french DIDN'T control very effectively didn't they? Even during french rule, there were MANY uprisings and MANY heroes who lead vietnam eventually to independence. They MIGHT have controlled the territory, BUT once again, they never actually controlled the people."

Here is what the french described people like you, "Que les chinois sont malins et que les annamites sont ignorants!"... Translation from French to English: " That the Chinese are Vicious and the Annamese are IGNORANT!"

http://www.redboat.com/virtualhanoi/goodbadugly.html

What can I say, uh?

The French didn't have a strong impact on Vietnam...Ha Ha Ha....!!!

Such an Ig...!
The TraveLLer Monday, July 08, 2002 at 14:25:29 (PDT)

To "Go straight to the point":

Oh, you are so tired, uh? It's because Annam was never 100% from China? Surely, it's sooo sooo irony, don't you agree? Weren't you one of those who kept insisting saying Vietnam had 100% independent after 1940 A.D.? So you want to make that site looks as bad to prove your point, eh?

Lets see now, "Zhao Tuo" or "Trieu Da" was a general of the Qin empire. He then proclaimed "King" of the Yueh; while at that time, the Au lac empire (one of the true 100 "Yueh" territories at that time) wasn't under Zhao Tuo, until later. So what did it tell you? That he was already king before he invaded the Au lac state, n'est ce pas? So was he a king and could he be considered as a royal?
Please try harder the next time, would you?
The TraveLLer Monday, July 08, 2002 at 14:15:48 (PDT)

k,

I correct myself:
I meant it vice versa:
Tibetans, Indians and Amerindians are more similar to each other than Russians and Ainus are to each other!
Russians are Iranoids mixed with Western Turks.They share a high incidence of blood type B with East Asians, Semites and Indians.
rare stuff Monday, July 08, 2002 at 13:30:52 (PDT)

To "carmael":

Kien Trinh was married to one of the Nguyen lord's daughter. FYI, Kien Trinh was first a poor peasant who stole chicken when he met the Nguyen lord. K. Trinh didn't have any money in the beginning, he had to snoop and studied, this person was quite above average that the Nguyen lord took him home. Afterward, he married his daughter to K. Trinh. After his death, the Nguyen and Trinh divided and thus history started....

Please read your history, before you making a fool to yourself....
The TraveLLer Monday, July 08, 2002 at 13:28:54 (PDT)

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