Comparing Asian Nationalities | Asian American Poll

COMPARING ASIAN NATIONALITIES
(Updated Wednesday, Jan 22, 2025, 06:39:09 AM to reflect the 100 most recent valid responses.)

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WHAT YOU SAY

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6)Hyundai cars/(Hopefully) my last words on Asian DNA analysis/Korean height:

Okay, I've been busy(why? Been car shopping of all things! Boy, I've read tons of information/reviews on Korean-made cars for almost 2 wks -- this past wk has been very intense-- specifically Hyundai models. Surely, I would have never thought about buying a Hyundai car even a year ago. Yes, I hate to admit it, but the Worldcup soccer thing made me rethink about buying Korean-made products, and I'm now spreading the gospel to my Korean friends/relatives. Many of them still remain unconvinced/too image-conscious), and I just couldn't find time to visit Goldsea until now. Anyway, after doing some exhaustive research/study on Hyundai cars(I think Kia, and especially Daewoo cars still have some ways to go before I can take them seriously. Maybe another 5-10 yrs), I finally went to a local Hyundai dealer and test drove a XG 350L(twice!) and a Santa Fe LX. I really don't wanna reveal too much about my personal life here on Goldsea(my current cars/house/educational backgroud/love life/etc.) because I truly think that has a very little to do with what I/anyone can contribute to this site, you know. I don't want other posters to stereotype me postively/negatively by reading what kind of cars/schools I'm driving/had attended, etc. After all, how can you believe the words of one anoymous poster?

In any case, I'm currently driving a Ford Explorer XLT(a purchase. Actually a second Explorer XLT I've had during the past 5 years) and a Cadillac Catera(a lease. Also a second Cadillac. My first Cadillac was a gas-guzzling, ultra-comfortable DeVille my mom passed on to me when I was in school. Yikes...)

Well, w/o any doubt Explorers/Cateras are not in the same class as many models of Mercedez/BMW/Audi/Acura/Lexus/Infinity/etc. brands. But, I tend to believe they carry more prestige than Hyundai cars, don't y'all think?

If everything goes smoothly as it has been(Hyundai dealer/salesman offered me some sweet deals)/Jesus doesn't return, I'll be a proud owner of two Hyundai cars in about a week or so!!!
Wow, what a turnaround/nightmare. I was actually thinking about upgrading to/buying a Ford Expedition, a BMW or even a Volvo(maybe not) for a change after Explorer/Catera...

What's the purpose of my writing about this? Well, I want to urge my fellow Korean posters/lurkers that it's okay and cool/hip to drive Korean-made cars! Yes, as those familiar Hyundai commercials universally say, "driving is believing."
Please just give it a try if you haven't. You will be surprised. Who gives a hoot about what other people think of you?? Dare to be different. Once you get over the badge snobbery, you will really appreciate the value of Hyundai cars. The quality is excellent. For sure, they may not be quite up to Toyota/Honda level yet, but it's very very close if not equal -- dare I say. Personally, when I was test driving the XG 350L model, I haven't noticed any difference. Yes, I've driven a Maxima/Acura RL/Accord before. Low resale value/depreciation can be more than made up in the initial/low purchase price. The long term reliability may be still a question mark particularly regarding some of the newer models, but Hyundai has the best warranty in the business.
However, before these new models ever came to US shores, for years they have proved their reliablity in domestic Korean/European/Middle Eastern/Australian, etc., markets. Yes, they are quite reliable now. The biggest obstacle/problem Hyundai has to overcome is people's "perception" as we all know...

Corny as it may sound, believe me it's not what you drive that matters. You'll still get plenty of pretty girls to ride in your Hyundai cars (for example, at one time, this physically-unattractive friend of mine who was driving a shoddy Nissan Sentra was getting more girls than me -- who happened to be driving a shiny Jeep Grand Cherokee. Well, to be honest the girls my friend was getting = butt-ugly. But, that's beside the point. Nowadays women are all beautiful to me)...

Anyway, my apologies.

Back to discussion(I'm running out of time here).

Okay, let me just say this;

The Asian DNA analysis still has a long long way to go before anyone can draw a conclusive/definite comparisons between all different ethnicities/nationalites.
I mean, we just scratched the surface/at incubation stage as far as Asian DNA is concerned. It'll be another 5-10 or even 15-20 years before we get more clear picture.

BTW, according to one genetic study done by some Korean geneticsts -- who studied protein/nuclear DNA of many unrelated Koreans -- Koreans are actually very close to Mongolians whereas Korean mtDNA(matrilineal ancestry) analysis seems to indicate that Koreans are actually very close to Chinese and Japanese, not to Mongolians.

Also, another Y-Chromosome test seem to indicate that all three East Asian nationalities have different founding fathers' effect.

I mean, I hate to admit it, but many of DNA tests seem to be politically motivated. Sad, isn't it?

If you totally believe in one DNA test done by 4 Korean geneticts where haplotype 7 is shared by 82% of Korean males, 95% of Chinese, 45(?)% of Japanese, or 60(?)% of Vietnamese, etc., and draw any dangerous/premature conclusion about the origin of Asian males, you'll be in for a rude awakening. Genetics/DNA is not that simple. I don't have time to really dissect this particular DNA test and some others (maybe I'll be able to do so in my next post), but as I stated before, it doesn't tell the whole story. Acutally it tells a very little about Asian DNA...

In any case, many independant Asian DNA tests/analysis that I have read over the years seem to indicate several things for sure;

North Asian and South Asian genes are different. Period.

Jomon people of ancient Japan migrated from Central Asia(specifically Tibet); that's why a certain haplotype is found only among Japanese and Tibetans, but absent in any other Asian group -- thus far.

Yaoi and other late comers to Japan migrated mainly from/through Korean peninsula and possibly from China. In any regard, several joint-DNA tests done by Korean and Japanese geneticsts/and several Western scholars seem to indicate that ancient Korean people populated Japanese Archipelagos after the Jomonese. Both Y-chromosome and mtDNA analysis have shown that Koreans and Japanese share some of the unique haplotypes that seem to be absent/in relatively very low frequency in other Asian populations. Of course, the Japanese have a significant Ainu blood in their veins...

(BTW, if you really wanna know who Ainu people are/what the full-blooded Ainu people looked like, please go to a reputable university library and read about them. I hope people on Goldsea are not getting their information based on a few internet sites?! Yes, I read about 5-6 books on Ainu, along with many other books on topics of anthropology, ethnology/human races, etc...)

However, if you throw Northern Chinese/Manchurian/Mongolian/Turkish(Central Asian) DNA into Korean DNA, the picture gets somewhat murky/incoherent for obvious reasons. Even then, what appears certain/indisputable is that many many Northern Chinese have a considerable Manchurian/Mongolian and Turkish(Central Asian) genes. Or vice versa, I guess. Does that surprise anyone?

According to one infamous(?) study done by a group of Taiwanese geneticts, Northern Chinese are closest to Mongolians(yes, I realize that Hui people are basically Han Chinsese) or Manchus, and then to Kazahks/Uighurs, and then to Koreans. Koreans seem to have similar type of genetic distance/kinship to these same groups.
Basically, somewhere between Korean and Northern Chinese DNA, there exist these interesting groups of Manchus/Mongolians/even Uighurs/Kazahks as buffers. BTW, I tend to believe Uighurs/Kazahks studied in this particular DNA analysis(the paper didn't specify where they got all DNA samples from) are that small minority who reside in northeastern part of China. Obviously further west you go, the Central Asian DNA cluster closer with Caucasian/Iranian genes. Also, estimated 200,000-300,000 ethnic Koreans live side by side with Uighurs/Kazakhs in Central Asia/Northeastern China(?)/are known to have intermarried with these people. Therefore, even the Korean DNA samples the Taiwanese geneticsts used might have come from these ethnic Koreans, not from Korean peninsula. I don't remember. Basically, the point the Taiwanese geneticts wanted to make was how Taiwanese people are genetically different from people in mainland China. You know why Taiwanese geneticsts wanted to prove that. Even then, majority of their findings have been already confirmed by many other non-Chinese geneticsts in the past...

My apologies if I misled anybody in my previous post. I was getting tired of talking about DNA tests/carried away somewhat, I confess.

Why don't we just wait another 5-10 years before making any presumptuous conclusion on Asian DNA?

As some poster pointed out, what makes a nation is not genes at all. Oftentimes, it's shared culture/custom/language/etc., that are far important than sheer genetics, especially in China. I mean, when you talk about Manchus, Mongols, or Han Chinese, we are basically talking about same race!
That's why, to me at least, Chinese are Chinese, whether Northern/Southern or even Sinicized Manchus/Mongols, you know. They are same people and one nation, particularly Northern and Southern Chinese; they are same...

Okay, I don't know the average height of Chinese people(in China).
But, I can tell you the average height of Koreans tho';

According to a report released by Korean government(South) via a ministry of education in 20001, the average height of 12th graders(17 and 18 year old boys) is 173.13(slightly over 5'8"). Knowing that 17 or 18 year old boys are not fully-grown adults, the Korean government and Korean geneticsts believe/expect that by the time these boys become men, their average height will be around 174-175cm(5'9"). I myself grew close to 1" from age 17, 18 on through age 25, therefore, I can easily agree with that assumption.
Actually, from what I had seen in my two visits to Korea within the past 5 years, it seemed as if every Korean boy I ran into was at least 5'10" or taller...

On the other hand, the average height of Korean females have not quite improved as much as their male counterparts. According to the same report released by Korean government, the average height of 12th graders(again, 17 or 18 year old girls) is 160.67cm(slightly over 5'3"). Most of girls reach their maximum height by age 15 or 16. Therfore, this figure won't change much. Of course, there are many many tall Korean girls who are well over 5'8" and taller. I myself have seen quite a few Korean girls who are in 5'10" and taller range.

Anyway, if you are a single/unmarried Korean male under 5'9", I wish you the best of luck. 5'7"? Forget it. Better become a priest. Haha. Just kidding.

You know, normally -- it's been said -- Korean girls wouldn't give you a time of day if you're under 5'9". Even 5'9" is considered to be "short", but grudgingly acceptable if you are very skillful, and of course, have other talents/assets.

I tend to believe the average height of Korean American males may surpass 5'9" based on what I have seen, particularly among 2nd generationers. But, who knows for sure? Who really cares??

What does height got to do with manhood anyway??

Is it just me but I feel like I wasted my previous time talking about DNA stuff and how tall/short Koreans are...

Ah, Hyundai...

One Korean Man Friday, July 12, 2002 at 06:49:07 (PDT)

To "Looking away":

In the beginning, Kien Trinh came from a poor family. One day, while going to rob some chickens for his mother, he was caught by Kim Nguyen (king Le' advisor).

After being caught, Kim Nguyen went and asked him the reason for his wrongdoing. Kien Trinh told Kim Nguyen that his act was mainly for his mother. By talking to this individual, Kim Nguyen noticed that Kien, although a peasant, is highly intelligent and has knowledge of the art of war. When asked Kien Trinh, where did he study the art of war, he replied by saying that he snooped outside the classroom to study the material.

Kim Nguyen realized that this individual is highly intelligent and a family caring person. So he took Kien Trinh and his family home and provided him education and shelter. To summarize, Kim Nguyen looked at Kien Trinh like a son.

During the chaos between the Mac and the Le, the Le summoned Kim Nguyen for advisor and strategy. At this time, Kien Trinh, by the help of Kim Nguyen, was an erected officer. Kim Nguyen, knowing that he needs all the help he can get, called upon Kien Trinh for strategy. There were several achievements by Kien Trinh against the Mac; thus, Kim Nguyen went to King Le and asked a high position for Kien. Kien was then granted as a general status. To Kim Nguyen, Kien Trinh was like a son, so Nguyen married his daughter to Kien.

After the death of Kim Nguyen, with Kien Trinh held most power and sought control of the kingdom, the family began to take a shake. Power shifting between Kien and the in-laws was stagnated. One even, probably due to greed, caused a death in one of Kim Nguyen's son. Still with the horror of his brother death, one of Kim Nguyen's son fled to the south and conquered the southern part of today's Vietnam.

And history started....

After Quang Trung united the country and eliminated the Nguyen and the Trinh lords, most of the Trinh scatterly fled to China and some parts of Vietnam.

We know that Gia long continued the Nguyen royal blood line. So what happened to the Trinh, all these times?

Here's my family secret: My family who had moved to South Vietnam after Quang Trung unified Annam could be one of the descendants of the Trinh, based on pass along words. My family, in the past, always kept low profile, but our the story of Kien Trinh was always mentioned. Usually you would hear this at the family reunion, "that there were times when Kien Trinh could have took the throne away from the Le, but politic clout prevented that from happening..." No ones in the family can reveal the name of our ancestors. If known, they all kept secret. My dad and his cousins were prohibited to go near the tomb of our great great grandfather who had moved from the north. No one can call out his name, though the elderly said it was a taboo. My dad guessed that the older members of our family feared that we could be under the threat of the Nguyen dynasty during the 1900's. Our ancestors, who migrated from the north, were buried in South Vietnam. Believe it or not, it's your choice. I will not go over this again.
Take care.

The TraveLLer Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 23:38:10 (PDT)

the real truth:

the site may be white supremacist, or probably not. at least you've gotte have something to prove this site is white supremacist, biased or they just come up with the theory the Ainus are Caucasoid.
k Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 19:34:19 (PDT)

"In addition, through the comparison of Ainu world view with neighbouring cultures, particularly ancient Japanese and northern peoples in Siberia, it is shown that the world view of the Ainu fundamentally differs from those of ancient Japanese, but has many similarities with those of Siberian peoples, particularly hunting peoples."

http://www.keganpaul.com/new_books/forthcoming/world_view_of_the_ainu.html

"We know people from Japan and Kamchatka interacted back and forth through the historic period," said Fitzhugh. "We suspect an even earlier Aleutian-Kuril connection. For example recent finds in the central Aleutians include prehistoric artifacts belonging to the Ainu culture of northern Japan or the Kuril Islands. These connections may have existed far into the past. People would have traveled by boat along the coast and we are looking for an old link between Japan and Kamchatka."

http://www.washington.edu/newsroom/news/2000archive/06-00archive/k063000.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/07/000706060008.htm

In the Russian Far East, a long chain of islands stretches from Kamchatka to Japan, dividing the frigid Okhotsk Sea from the vast Pacific Ocean. Geographers have designated two groups within the islands, referring to the Small and Big Kuril Island Chains. The Small Kuril Chain, including the islands of Shikotan and Kunashir, makes up the southern end of the chain nearest to Japan, while the Big Chain stretches North to Kamchatka. The Ainu people originally settled these islands several thousand years ago. The Ainu called themselves the "Kur," thus the islands came to be known as the Kuril Islands. Kunashir, directly across the Kunashirsky Strait from the Japanese island of Hokaiddo, means "black earth" in Ainu, probably named for the dark volcanic soils that make up the island.

http://www.boondocksnet.com/gallery/wfe1904/wfe04ww5146a.html

Some pics of Ainu. You'll be the

judge.http://rs6.loc.gov/pnp/agc/7a05000/7a05100/7a05183r.jpg

http://www.ainu-museum.or.jp/english/eng01.html

k Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 19:32:12 (PDT)

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~dploy/stateless/ainu.html

The site says Ainus are australoid but it has no back up or explaination whatsoever.

It's not like I confirm with certainty they are Caucasoid, but i tend to think wether they are caucasoid or Australoid is debatable.

rarestuff:

I have lived in Europe too. There is hardly a white who has no eyelid. I think the discussion is mainly about racial physionomy, but not about geography. There might exist a lot of hairy people in Asia but they for the most part didn't belong to Mongoloid race. I'm saure there are some mongoloid groups who are hairy, but it was rare. They might be Melanesian, australoid, or a hyphenated group.
Assumption will always be assumption. Well, imagine what if East Asdian people didn't bring into extinct the hairy people? Asia today would have been a melting pot with non-mongoloid races living along side Asians.

k Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 19:02:35 (PDT)

The real truth:

thx for providing the link abcnews.go.com. i readed it however nowhere did i find the part in which they confirm Ainus were Australoid.
However this part caught ny attention:

"Based on measurements of the Kennewick skeleton, the National Park Service report states that the skeleton is biologically affiliated most closely with groups from Polynesia and the Ainu of Japan, a group indigenous to northern Japan who are physically different from most Japanese.
Many archaeologists believe the Ainu are the descendents of a population that lived in many parts of south Asia thousands of years ago, and had some physical traits that are similar to Caucasians, such as wavy hair and thick facial hair.
�The fact is, Caucasoid people used to be a much wider population,� says Gill. �This can be seen in the Ainu of Japan. All of Japan, even just 3,000 years ago were bearded, white people.� "

Btw, i remeber reading somewhere Australoid could be classified as Caucasian, albeit darker skin.

k Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 18:51:16 (PDT)

Mexicans are not of North Asian race.

They are phenotypically closer to Dravidians and Polynesians:
Big eyes,double-eyelids,fat women are not typically North Asian features.The deeper you get into the South of Mexico the less Mongolid features in the stricter sense you'll find.

rare stuff Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 16:33:37 (PDT)

looking at this website I see a flaw in it.

>>>"Many Vietnamese with this surname claim their ancestor to be a man called Ruan Cho, who was a governor of ChiaoChih (North Vietnam) during the Chen Dynasty (~600 A.D.). (Ruan means a musical instrument)"<<<

During 600 A.D., the northern part of Vietnam was still under the Han, not the "Chen/Tran" dynasty. This website is off scale. The Tran (Chen in Taiwanese/Zhen in Pinyin/Chan in Cantonese)ruled Annam during 1400 A.D. This website doesn't hold any merit point. This person could have made a mistake in thinking the "Nguyen" with accent from the "Nguyen" without accent. In Chinese writing charater, the both are written differently.

My question is still, what happened to the Nguyen last name before 940 A.D.?
The TraveLLer Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 15:31:42 (PDT)

k,

Ainu people now look very Mongoloid. http://www.voicenet.co.jp/~jeanphi/ngo/indigenous/ainu/ainu.htm
the real truth Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 15:07:49 (PDT)

traveller:
"ha lau" is the Cantonese reading of the written word (not used colloquially). mandarin would be xia lou.
T.H. Lien Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 14:45:45 (PDT)

who's manchu,

Have you seen pictures of the EMPRESS Dowager Cixi...before...? You can find real pictures of her on the internet...she is manchurian,
Also...I have seen pictures of Zhen Fei...a royal cububine's pictures before...who is also manchurian...
she looks more korean than Han.
yehenala shi Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 14:45:05 (PDT)

To GV (or whatever):

Your Website, http://www.yutopian.com/names/06/6Ruan179.html

I will take a look into this. This is my first time seeing that the "Nguyen" was before 940 A.D. Further, the writer could be wrong since there's another Chinese last name when writing in Pinyin style is "Yuen", which it spells in Vietnamese as "Nguyen" also, but without accent.

In addition, this is a chess game website, one should be aware that this website could be wrong since it's not a historical webstie nor an encyclopedia.

Do you have any other sources to validate your point?
The TraveLLer Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 14:27:04 (PDT)

An nam Guy,

Enjoy the pics.

Be well
The TraveLLer Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 13:45:35 (PDT)

Anyone has been following this post?

>>>>"To, The TraveLLer;

Hahaha, i avoid the viet discussion for a reason you know... I only noticed that you was going nuts on these boards here, so stop saying weird stuff ok... Plus, my writing isn't like G.V.! He sounds older, but whatever you know, whatever.
To, G.V.;

Good luck on your trip...
General Viet "<<<<

Funny, but his guy is posting to himself. Quite remarkable and insane, isn't it? And he expects me to believe his lunacy? Ok, so he first posted "To, G.V." and then signed General Viet, himself.

I guess I'm new at this, but it seems to me that someone is not mentally stable.
DX: Bipolar disorder.

Quite impressive in human psychological development. Oh well...
The TraveLLer Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 13:38:30 (PDT)

To, Shed;

Hey just say it to Hafti (i know him in reality). He can record it then tell me later when i come back, or through the phone or something.

To, Yup;

Lol, was it you who wrote that post that wasn't mine but under my name? I just spoke to hafti over msn and he said he didn't. Or was it the traveller trying to make things up and post it as me... Ah whatever, who cares...

To, the traveller;

You can doubt the truth all you want, sure you can believe that ALL of vietnam's history was written through editorials of patriots. But i doubt that very much. Many people can say the same about china's history books, and all the others countries, they are influenced politically at that time.

*Can you back this statement of yours, " It is said that the Yueh moved south, but they WERE openly killed in several occations of which at many times making them an even smaller minority group. But the Dong Son reigned on and on, traditions and such were carried on. Stories were mixed with some Yueh ones but, most of the viet stories today can be proven by the evidence in escavated sites in vietnam today. "?*

Ok, the backup was your site that you gave on vietnam migrations. Well, it's on a post on Wednesday, July 10, 2002 at 11:13:25 (PDT) (which should be on the same page as your question)...

Oh, my friends are calling me to go now, so see yah. Hear from you in a few weeks...
General Viet Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 13:36:51 (PDT)

To, everyone;

I'm going to vietnam now, so see yah. Lol, i noticed that one of my posts weren't written by me, but oh well. Hey you guys argue on i don't find any interest in this anymore, it's getting rather irritating.

To, the traveller;

The very top post is answered by one of my posts on the same day. Oh and didn't you say you were a university student? Since when did you become a doctor so fast?

To, Viet Flava;

Interesting facts, i'll find that book and read it, see yah later. I gotta go now, my fifth trip to vietnam...

To, hafti;

Was it you that wrote that post that wasn't by me? I'm gonna kick your ass when i get back from the airport in five weeks.

To, Yup;

Good luck on continueing the argument.

To, looking away;

Thanks, good luck to vancouver...

WELL I'M OFF NOW... Your travels have been impressive, but i've been to as many places, just not the same places. I'm a traveller also, i may not speak or write in chinese, but i can write and speak in viet and english, enough for me right now. I didn't have time in high school to learn french, so i'll learn it later maybe.

FAREWELL

General Viet Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 13:30:36 (PDT)

To, everyone;

I'm going to vietnam now, so see yah. Lol, i noticed that one of my posts weren't written by me, but oh well. Hey you guys argue on i don't find any interest in this anymore, it's getting rather irritating.

To, the traveller;

The very top post is answered by one of my posts on the same day. Oh and didn't you say you were a university student? Since when did you become a doctor so fast?

To, Viet Flava;

Interesting facts, i'll find that book and read it, see yah later. I gotta go now, my fifth trip to vietnam...

To, hafti;

Was it you that wrote that post that wasn't by me? I'm gonna kick your ass when i get back from the airport in five weeks.

To, Yup;

Good luck on continueing the argument.

To, looking away;

Thanks, good luck to vancouver...

WELL I'M OFF NOW... Your travels have been impressive, but i've been to as many places, just not the same places. I'm a traveller also, i may not speak or write in chinese, but i can write and speak in viet and english, enough for me right now. I didn't have time in high school to learn french, so i'll learn it later maybe.

FAREWELL
General Viet Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 13:25:47 (PDT)

rare stuff:the reason is just simple.

Most mongoloid are hairyless and The main inhabitants in Aisa are mongoloid.
k Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 13:17:56 (PDT)

the real truth:

LOL, how could you be so sure That picture i referred is most likely a practical joke of an American posing as an Ainu??? I'VE SEEN other pics of ainus at other webisites but it would take some time for me to find out again these websites and post them here.see ya.

k Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 13:13:23 (PDT)

To, Hafti;

To, The TraveLLer;

*Hahaha, i avoid the viet discussion for a reason you know... I only noticed that you was going nuts on these boards here, so stop saying weird stuff ok... Plus, my writing isn't like G.V.! He sounds older, but whatever you know, whatever.

To, G.V.;

Good luck on your trip...*

You see how easy it is to copy someone's writing? I don't want to piss off the realm G.V. too much, hehehe... G.V. doesn't have to fake to get a point out, plus, it's hard to sound the same. My attempts on being G.V. was screwed but hey, i'm just showing YOU people how hard it is trying to fact to be someone. So traveller, stop trying to be paranoid...

Yup Thursday, July 11, 2002 at 13:10:36 (PDT)

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