Comparing Asian Nationalities | Asian American Poll

COMPARING ASIAN NATIONALITIES
(Updated Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 05:22:21 PM to reflect the 100 most recent valid responses.)

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WHAT YOU SAY

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What TraveLLer says about modern Viets being descendants of Chinese sounds realistic. Now, I don't have any facts to back it up, but it makes a lot of sense. The surnames he posted says a lot. I'm Chinese, and my last name is "Wong," which is equivalent to "Huynh" in Viet. I know many Huynhs, and they have tattoos of the Chinese character Wong.

Here are things to ponder, even though they don't really explain all that much:

1. Viets practice southern Chinese kung fu. They do lion dancing at store and restaurant grand openings. Practitioners worship the "Kwan Gung" (God of War).

2. Viets have wedding banquets at Chinese restaurants. They believe in the same symbols, such as the "double happiness" sign. Their dresses are similar.

3. Many Viets have Chinese folk tale characters in their houses, such as the "Fook, Look, Suw" (health, fame, and prosperity), and the "Goon Yum." Some even have the Monkey King and the Eight Immortals.

4. Viets believe in the Chinese horoscope, with one glaring difference. The rabbit is changed to the cat in some instances (many still use rabbit though).

5. Viets love Chinese music and movies, and even those HKTVB serial dramas. They watch it as religiously as HK people do.

Some people have mentioned the weather, and how certain races would not survive in certain places. Well, if that were the case, no culture would have left their home area in the first place. I'm sure New York City is much too cold for Cantonese, and Chicago is too cold for blacks, but there are plenty living there. =P
TSJ Eric@KristinKreuk.net Wednesday, July 17, 2002 at 12:31:15 (PDT)

To Viet Flava and (Yup, GC, HAFTI, looking away or whatever):

Biased? You call me bias and surrender my logical thinking to your unproven literature, which appears to have little merit. How can the Dong Son people speak when they cannot write or read? They could probably be perished/decreased in size like the Cham people in the south, when the Chinese conquered the northern region of Vietnam.

And all the historians written in 13th century were probably the Chinese people who tried to proclaim their own independent from the mother land, due to greed or unfair treatment(tax et al.). They probably had to make up a legendary myth based on a local history to separate themselves from their mother land. In fact, their gather informations were off scale also. Click on: http://www.viettouch.com/hist/

It's so funny when I heard one of these kids stated that he/she wants to become a medical doctor, when in fact he/she cannot obtain some critical thinkings along his/her process. Sad...
The TraveLLer Wednesday, July 17, 2002 at 10:23:11 (PDT)

Chinese attack Koreans in China, over World Cup Results. The question in my mind is, why?

From English Chosun Ilbo, Korea

Chinese Students Clash with Koreans over World Cup
by Yeo Shi-dong (sdyeo@chosun.com)

South Korean students in Beijing said Wednesday some 300 Chinese students attempted to burn Red Devils tee shirts and shouted abuse at them in front of a foreign dormitory after the football match between Korea and Germany on June 25, but were controlled by school security forces.

They said some students waved a poster of Korean actress Kim Hee-sun on which they had written "To Die." In a Chinese dorm adjacent to it, some Chinese threw empty bottles of mineral water and wastes waters at Korean students.

The South Korean Students Association made a protest to school deans for external affairs and student leaders of the Chinese Students Association the next day, but the latter claimed it was an outsider who orchestrated the incident, not a student.
...
World Cup Korea/Japan Wednesday, July 17, 2002 at 00:38:30 (PDT)

jacaliboy,

There are definitely Ainu genes among the modern Japanese themselves and vice versa. Whether the Ainus are descendants of the Jomon people is true or not, we don't know for sure. Some say Jomon are the Malayan component.

Ainus at one time lived in all 4 of the Japanese islands. The Russians are not native to Sakhalin. Those lands belonged to Manchu-Tunguz peoples. Russians came later (in 19th cent. AD).

Caucasoids existed in northern China. We know that for sure. In northwestern China, them mummified remains still show their Indo-European appearances. Even farther east (in Shandong, China), they have uncovered bodies from Lenzi city dating back almost 3,000 years ago that say the earliest inhabitants may have resembled Europeans or Middle Easterners. It is only in the Han Dynasty, that race mixing occurs. Whether the Ainus have any connections with these Caucasoid people of China is not known?
Ezo Tuesday, July 16, 2002 at 23:17:41 (PDT)

The TraveLLer,

Let's take a look at a larger panorama..
The North Vietnamese territory was much much larger than it was today.A lot of things Viets and Chinese have in common have been invariabbly attributed to chinese characteristics. For example, the dragon has more to do w/ southern culture than it does w/ northen culture. The symbol was basically yueh...but people attribute it as being typically chinese.

i don't think one's racil component is that relevant which most losers do. I could be korean, chinese, Vietnamese, pinoy, malay, i don't hecka care. Is that really important? stay focused on achieving your goals rather than staying behind the internet discussing abou your origins. It truly gets you noweher and doesn't add an ounce to your value as an individual.

BYE!
k Tuesday, July 16, 2002 at 23:10:16 (PDT)

rare stuff,

Actually, the Spaniards at one time imported 100,000 Filipinos to Mexico. They came as slaves. During the Revolution in Mexico (1810-20s), these Filipinos played a major factor in revolting against the Spaniard rule. After the Revolution, they were freed along with Africans. Subsequently, these Filipinos also must have intermarried into the Mexican (with mextizos and Indians) and completely amalgamated. A similar number of Chinese also immigrated to Mexico around the same time that gold was found in California. Half of that number returned to China or elsewhere in Latin America. The other half also (like the Filipinos) melted into the Mexican ethnos. Mexicans are not just Spaniard and Indian. They also got African, Filipino, Chinese in them. I heard some Koreans also settled in the southern part of Mexico and intermarried with Mayan women back then.

Blood type O is quite common among Phillipines, IndoChina and southern China.
Not surprising Tuesday, July 16, 2002 at 23:07:12 (PDT)

The TraveLLer:

"However, according to some other websites, the Dong Son was also considered to be one of the 100 "Yueh" tribes. So the Dong son people were probably the "Yueh" also. "

Hah, it only reinforces my earlier points. The Dong Son couldn't perished because they and the yuehs are the same. Their bone structure, type of feet are identical arcording to archelogical evidences.

"Here's a good debate. If the "Yueh" were originated from the Yangtze river, due to the fact that the Yangtze river is found in China, some Chinese scholars claimed that the "Yueh" were also one of their ethnic ancestors. What do you have to say about that? "

The southern chinese and the Vietnamese have the Yueh roots. get it? Nationality doesn't always correlate with racial components. you could be more racially related to a chinese than you are to a southern vietnamese living in Tay Nguyen.

So Could you have some sources that state about the chinese diaspora to VN? Although a lot of Viets are pleased w/ the facts that they have northern chinese origin (it seems northern chinese are constantly viewd in high respect), but truth is still truth. I don't deny a lot of northern chinese migrated to VN but they hardly are overwhelmingly visible in VIet racial component. Only a class of generals moved down to rule VN, and some loyalist. Normally, hardly a northen chinese move down, the weather is one reason. despite from that, why would they have to move down there to live w/ the savages. A lot moved south but only stop as far as southern chinese provinces. A lot of people think the northern chinese are the best looking, but i think chinese girls from Tu Xuyen, Hang Zhou are the prettiest of them all. Most HK stars are from Tu Xuyen, not like someone said they 're mainly from Beijing. A lot of chinese leaders have origins from Hunan, other southern provinces. What's wrong w/ southern anyway. Sorry for the rambling though.

Oh, probably i didn't make it clear. i never said The Malay polynesian is related to the dong son people.

*yawn*...the debate eads us nowhere. I'll bo going on vacation. like some other viet debators, i 'll stop discussing w/ you cos it's so useless and stupid.

Peace out!

V Flava Tuesday, July 16, 2002 at 22:54:07 (PDT)

Jacaliboy,

Actually, Ainu are not Caucasoid but an Austronesian/Australoid people. Ainu now classify themselves as Australoid, who are also a hairy people. http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~dploy/stateless/ainu.html The Ainu language itself is the strongest evidence of their Austronesian origin. http://www.dai3gen.net/epage10a.htm http://www.dai3gen.net/epage13.htm
While it is the great desire of the White Race and the Japanese people to sustain such a claim, there is simply no evidence, genetic, linguistic or otherwise, that the Caucasoid race reached Japan in prehistoric times.
the real truth Tuesday, July 16, 2002 at 22:48:21 (PDT)

To, the traveller;
People:

"Of Viet-Muong origin, the Vietnamese have slim body build, black hair, and brown or black eyes. Over seventy million people of 54 ethnic groups live in harmony in Vietnam territory.

The largest group is Viet or Kinh accounting for 80% of the whole population. The Vietnamese inherit an age-old civilization which dated back to 4000 years as proved in various scientific and archaeological researches."

That is from another site (www.1uptravel.com/international/ asia/vietnam/locallife.html) which should be as unbiased as you can get, because of the fact that it`s an international travelling directory. It also states that modern vietnams civilization (which it also included the kinh) inherited a civilization 4000 years ago. 4000 years ago there were only the dong son. I`m looking for the truth, not an opinion of someone like you, who only create editorials. Your only saying that because you WANT to be chinese. I`m already 50% chinese, and i know that one for sure, BUT the fact also remains that my fathers side is unique, and i can`t take that away by throwing out false facts and interpreting things hell off the true meaning.

Hafti Tuesday, July 16, 2002 at 22:23:20 (PDT)

"Common Vietnamese surnames that are Chinese Origin:

1. Ly 2. Tran 3. Ngo 4. Vu or Vo 5. Truong 6. Trinh 7. Tong 8. Ha 9. Hoang/Huynh 10. Vuong 11. Duong 12. Quach 13. Luu 14. Lu 15. Luong 16. Ta 17. Hong 18. Ho 19. Dinh 20. Dang 21. and several others.
"

The TraveLLer, do you have any source or link?

Those are some of the most common vietnamese namese to my knowledge. The surname, Ly Tran, Ngo (Ly, Chen , WU ), Luu, Ho, Dinh, Dang, Trinh, Hoang...are kinda rare among northern chinese, yet common among southern chinese. I guess it indicates a common root or something like that, not necessarily they have chinese origin. There's a POSSIBILITY Tong, Quach, Ta might be chinese.

k Tuesday, July 16, 2002 at 21:58:32 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

Your post:
"If you want to be a descendant of a Malay-Polynesia then be it. Just called upon the Dong Son people your ancestor, that's fine with me. However, I'm not related to you...so why do I bother, uh? My last name is original from China, so I will keep the tradition of my ancestor and abide by saying that my ancestor came from the North. There...Happy! Honestly, I apologize for confusing you as one of the Vietnamese with Chinese ancestor. After reading your pseudonym, it sounds like some types of "Indo-Malay polynesian" word, so I guess you are a real descendant of those "Indo-Malay Polynesians".

The next time when you eat, use your hands instead of a chopstick. At least, it will give you a sense of being closer to your ancestor."

That post by you just proves that you don`t look for evidence of truth. But is just a person trying to spread lies and find small unsignificant details pointing at vietnamese people are chinese. It shows that your just a person ashamed of the vietnamese people because you are afraid of being rediculed for having an ancestor not as famous as the chinese were. It is CLEAR from that post alone. It is UNDENIABLE that we all once came from a similar ancestor, BUT this ancestor was not the chinese. It was a small tribe that broke up later on, and from that breaking up that created the many nations of people we know today. The vietnamese and chinese probably came from the same ancestors, but the creation of it`s civilization has been independent, BUT the cultural influence is also undeniable. From that you cannot say that the vietnamese are chinese or even vice verca, but that we are equal. Your just trying to say that the vietnamese are chinese, that`s a disgrace speaking, not a historian, but a biased individual.
Hafti Tuesday, July 16, 2002 at 21:50:50 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

Your post:
"The next time when you eat, use your hands instead of a chopstick. At least, it will give you a sense of being closer to your ancestor."

Once again a show of primitive insults due to the lack of argument. This is the type of stuff that chases people away, the type of stuff that makes people know how educated you actually were. Do you have evidence of when the creation of chopsticks were at? How do you know that the chinese at that time (han population) didn't use spoons or their hands? You don't even have proof. The creation of chopsticks could have been created later, and then that means that you should be eating mud to feel closer to YOUR ancesters, as the Dong Son and the chinese were at the same level at that time.

Your post:
"If you want to be a descendant of a Malay-Polynesia then be it. Just called upon the Dong Son people your ancestor, that's fine with me. However, I'm not related to you...so why do I bother, uh? My last name is original from China, so I will keep the tradition of my ancestor and abide by saying that my ancestor came from the North. There...Happy! Honestly, I apologize for confusing you as one of the Vietnamese with Chinese ancestor. After reading your pseudonym, it sounds like some types of "Indo-Malay polynesian" word, so I guess you are a real descendant of those "Indo-Malay Polynesians".

The next time when you eat, use your hands instead of a chopstick. At least, it will give you a sense of being closer to your ancestor."

Lol, from what your writing your actually being racist. Your denying that the modern viets are from the Dong Son despite OBVIOUS evidence just because you want to be related to the chinese. You think that the chinese are more 'civilized' and want to be like them. Lol, your just one of those people who want to be chinese and would go to great lengths to lie and cheat just to make it seem that you are chinese.

Your post (even though it's not sent at me):
"Here's a good debate. If the "Yueh" were originated from the Yangtze river, due to the fact that the Yangtze river is found in China, some Chinese scholars claimed that the "Yueh" were also one of their ethnic ancestors. What do you have to say about that?"

The Yueh were from the Yangtze river, so? They claim that the Yueh are some of their ancestors, so? This only means that we share the same blood. But where does that say that the vietnamese are chinese descendents? Only that some chinese are vietnamese descendents. The Yueh are considered to be the modern vietnamese, and the Dong Son also a notable contributer.

Your post (also not to me):
"However, according to some other websites, the Dong Son was also considered to be one of the 100 "Yueh" tribes. So the Dong son people were probably the "Yueh" also."

Actually i have not seen one site saying that the dong son were one of the 100 Yueh tribes. Only that they were joined together with their Yueh and Shu neighbors to make the Au Lac kingdom.

Some quotes to consider:
"Many historians believe that it was not difficult for the Yueh to be incorporated into Lac society."

And

"Even though the original Vietnamese culture developed from a number of merging cultures in the area of the Red River, it is the Dong Son or Au Lac civilization which marks the beginning of the Vietnamese civilization which continues to thrive today."

Those two passages combined makes undeniable evidence that historians consider todays civilization to be that of the ancient Dong Son. BUT the culture is the creation of numerious influences from other nations. The civilization (people) is said to thrive instead to have diminished as you describe. And the Yueh were said to have assimilated into the Dong Son not vice verca. And no constructive direct destruction of the civilization was ever recorded. Either by the chinese or anyone else.
Hafti Tuesday, July 16, 2002 at 21:41:19 (PDT)

To, the traveller;

From site:
"Even though the original Vietnamese culture developed from a number of merging cultures in the area of the Red River, it is the Dong Son or Au Lac civilization which marks the beginning of the Vietnamese civilization which continues to thrive today."

Your reply to this is:
"What it stated here is that the Au Lac and Dong Son marked the beginning of the Vietnamese civilization, the same could be said to the American Indians in the U.S. And that the Vietnamese history has been recorded since then 'til now."

Actually your wrong. The word 'thrive' in the passage makes it a different matter between the North American natives and vietnamese. You can't deminished and thrive at the same time. So your argument on the meaning of 'end of life' is very invalid. Historians considered the Dong Son civilization to have "thrived" til today dispite chinese rule. But culturally had alot of foreign influence due to the passage below.

"The Lac lords, or leaders of the Au Lac kingdom, retained their power for a while. However, this marked the end of life"

The 'end of life' refers to the diminishing of the locals power over oneself. And we have been fighting ever since to get that power back. The dimishing of the life was talking about the loss of power the vietnamese experienced, not the diminishing population of the vietnamese.

From your post:
"Then the author stated, "Exactly what life was like for these people can only be known through the piecing together of myths, elements of language, and archaeological re-mains."

Does it told you that the Dong Son people were gradually decreasing or perished and that the only remaining was through excavating?"

Not exactly that the population decreased. Resulting to the decrease of the written evidence DOES NOT mean the decrease in the population. For instance, mexico has 4 million of the original natives left, BUT the ONLY evidence left are also from legends, escavations and elements of language. And this society was considered to have been dimishing not thriving as in the case of the vietnamese. IN FACT at those days, the vietnamese at those areas DID NOT have their own writing so written history cannot be taken, the only history we had till we had writing was from chinese annals and escavations. The population as a whole would have not been recorded, the daily living WAS NOT recorded by the chinese. Myths and language is a passdown from generation to generation of the same people. Doesn't that tell you that the Dong Son and the modern vietnamese have a connection?

Your post:
"It's just like saying that when an European said that the US territory were originate from the European settlers, it's merely untrue."

Actually i have NEVER heard a european say that the civilization that we have today are from the natives. But that is true, the USA civilization was brought over by the USA, and before the europeans established the USA as USA there was no such thing as US territory, but only local Indian territory. The civilization the US people are talking about that the europeans created is the culture that they have today and the majority people, not the first begginers. And no european has ever said that they first settled and created North America, but they only claim to tbe the first european to settle north america. So the comparison is INVALID.

Hafti Tuesday, July 16, 2002 at 21:20:51 (PDT)

well, I am no expert on these topics, but I remember something written about Europeans by a Chinese during the Taiping Rebellion in the 19th century.. the author describes each European nationality according to his impression of them.
The Germans were described, among other things, as a primitive looking people (long headed). Where does this impression come from?
Firestorm Tuesday, July 16, 2002 at 20:50:57 (PDT)

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