AA ATTITUDE TOWARD HEIGHT
(Updated to reflect the 100 most recent valid responses.)

Assuming you are an Asian American, how important is height in your assessment of a person's attractiveness?
It's a key element of attractiveness. | 20%
It's one of many factors I consider. | 44%
It's less important than other personal qualities. | 28%
I am not attracted to tall people. | 8%

Assuming you are an Asian American, which best matches your feelings toward your own height?
I'd like to be 3 inches taller. | 43%
I'd like to be an inch taller. | 27%
I'm happy with my height. | 26%
I'd like to be an inch shorter. | 4%
Tang Dynasty: You say only one group of Chinese (Toisan) have Persian blood. But, do you realize many people of northwestern China during the Tang era have some Persian in them? The Tang were victorious in Central Asia, and it is said they brought back many female captives to China. The Persian female headdress was adopted by native Chinese women during that time. So, Chinese as a whole do have some Persian in them whether they like it or not. And, many Chinese musical instruments of Persian origins did make its way either from the northwest or Guangdong (sorna, bili (guanzi), yangqin, erhu, pipa, dizi, xiao, etc.).
nnmm    Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:36:29 (PST)
Tang Dynasty,

The difference between Hakkas and other Cantonese is really due to who arrived a little bit earlier. The ancestors of the Cantonese (presumably Sam Yip Cantonese) settled in Guangdong earlier than either the Hakkas or Si Yip Cantonese. Next, came the Si Yip Cantonese (Toisan being the major one) to settle in Guangdong. Many Sam Yip Cantonese look down on Si Yip Cantonese, with accent differences being one reason. For example, in Toisan language, there is a "schl" added to any word that begins in "s." This is one of the differences between Sam Yip and Si Yip speech. It turns out that some speakers in Jiangxi province retain this "schl" prefix as well. So, we know Si Yip were second Han group to settle in Guangdong. Then, followed by Hakkas. Since, most of the fertile lands were already taken by both the Sam and Si Yip Cantonese near the Pearl River delta, there was competition between all 3 groups for the best lands. Since the Hakkas came the latest, they were confined to the northern isolated areas of Guangdong, and the earlier settlers termed them "Hakka, or guest families." The conflicts erupted during the inept Ching Dynasty. At that time, the Manchus incited one Han group against the other. In the north, they incited the non-Muslim Hans against the Muslim Hans. In the south, it was Hakka (guests) against Punti (natives). Much blood and violence was shed when it could have been orchestrated to overthrowing the declining dynasty. Many wrong terms such as "Hui-min (Muslim)" ethnicity and "Hakkas" were created during this turbulent times. I really think with the learning of one language (Putonghua) and more education, the youths of all China will someday cease to see petty differences.
George Lee    Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:30:25 (PST)
Tang Dynasty,

Actually, among both the Hakkas and Toisan peoples I have seen some who have the northwestern Han features as well as the Malay-mixed ones. I guess you can say this for both the Hakka and Cantonese people as a whole. Both groups have absorbed some various Thai or Hmong , Viet tribes on their southward resettlement. Toisan peoples who live near the coast look more Malay (Hong Kong and Macau people near the coasts have this same features), while the Toisan people living in isolated mountain areas have quite typical Han features.

After the fall of Han Dynasty, the Huang (Wong) clan was one of the few wealthy clans who took refuge in the south because their homelands in northwestern China was overrun by Huns and other Tabgatch Turks. These clans made it to modern Anhui, Hunan and Jiangxi provinces, from there they went on further south (Fujian, Guangxi and Guangdong). But, there were also some Wong clans who migrated back north to Changan (modern Xian) when the Sui Dynasty reunited north and south China and brought back the remnants of Han Dynasty aristocracy back to the northwest for cultural rejuvenation. My mother's family is Wong (which seems to be the most popular surname for Toisan peoples). And, in our family clan lineage books the ancestry has now been traced to Henan area. Now, some modern scholars doubt the validity of these family lineage books, but I know Chinese people very seldom fabricate their own ancestry. Now, why can't a Hakka, Toisan, Cantonese, Fukien person with the same surname (Wong or Huang) be descended from the same ancestors? If you research the genetics and HLA alleles, we are all the same.
George    Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 18:16:40 (PST)
5'3" with 30" inseam? maybe with your heels on, you midget

hey 27.5 Pants Length, that still doesnt sound right... are you saying that if you bought a pair of ??x30 pants, youd have to alter them?

i know that some 30" inseam pants will have a real inseam ranging from 28"-30" depending on how high or low the waistline is and where the crotch(?) is.
but anyway pants like that fit just the same.
maybe youre buying baggy pants    Wednesday, November 14, 2001 at 14:19:13 (PST)
George,

I am not trying to get into a heated debate with you on the Cantonese vs Hakka Issue. I find the discussion interesting and productive. It is also refreshing for a Toisan person like yourself to know something about the Hakkas. Many Toisans and other Cantonese I've known, do not know anything about the Hakkas nor their culture/history.

The Cantonese and Hakka conflict has been boiling for many decades and perhaps even years which ultimately led to a large diaspora of Chinese from the Guangdong province. Although deep hatred and distrust between these different groups have disappeared over time, certain tensions still exist today between these groups. My mom is particularly not fond of Toisan people. She has prejudices towards them and complains about their habits and cultural differences.

My roots are from the Bao On district of Eastern Guangdong. I think the much of the eastern area is Hakka territory while the western areas such as Sam Yup and Sze Yup are mainly Cantonese. Maybe that's why I was making a distinction between the physique of the Cantonese and Hakkas. People from the eastern and western areas of Guangdong look somewhat different. Interestingly, some Toisan people point out that I look "Hakka". I also think the Toisans have more mixing in their blood (Persian and Malay)than the Hakkas. Therefore, I was making the notion that Hakkas look more "homogenous", less mixed. Hakkas throughout history were known for their stubborness and klannishness, so therefore they did not intermarried and associated with their own group.

Most Toisan who were not born in the US whom I've come across are much shorter than the Hakkas. My uncles and aunts are taller than 5'7, and they were all born in China.

Your point about Hakkas being sold to Toisan family seems logical. This goes back to my notion that Hakkas and Cantonese look different. I've seen some Toisans whom I intially thought were Hakkas because of their facial characteristics. For example, the now deceased HK Rock Idol "Wong Ka Kui" looks Hakka to me. It turns out his roots are from Toisan. Might he be descended from a Hakka lineage? Maybe.

One last remark, some people like to say for example "A Cantonese with a Wong surname has no blood ties to a Hakka with the same surname". What are your thoughts about this issue? I think they were related at one point in time.


Tang Dynasty    Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 22:32:51 (PST)
Being 5'3" with 30 inch inseam also does not sound right. But, maybe you've got long legs!
To Azn Teen Gal    Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 09:36:13 (PST)
Umm, Fuzhou is in Southern China and the people are Southern Chinese, but that's not where most Taiwanese came from. They came from southern part of Fujian (Zhangzhou, Quanzhou, Xiamen/Amoy vs. Fuzhou which is in northern Fujian (people there speak a different dialect). Fuzhou is not the furthest south- Guangdong is more south.

Taiwanese stature/height is like southern Fujianese mixed with some native plains Taiwanese aborigine genes (some of these plains aborigines were fairly tall).
Asian Height    Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 09:22:24 (PST)
Hey, I'm Taiwanese (not "waishengren" Taiwanese-who come from all parts of China). I know Taiwanese are not genetically close to Northern Chinese. They are different. They are in fact closer genetically to Vietnamese and Thais. However, I just want to dispel some perceptions that the Taiwanese, on average, are short as the Vietnamese and other Southeast Asians. That is not the case, the Taiwanese on average, are taller and larger frame than the average Southeast Asian. That's all.
Taiwanese Male    Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 09:14:56 (PST)
To all the people who say that I am putting all this B.S. about my pants length- you don't know what you are talking about. I truly where pants with 27.5 inches in length (I'm 5'8")- if I wear it longer, it goes down to below my ankles. I live with that- so don't tell me that I'm making this up! I know my own pants length!
27 .5 Pants Length    Tuesday, November 13, 2001 at 09:10:45 (PST)
Tang Dynasty and George,

North Chinese are taller than even the Mongols and Koreans. Koreans got some of their tallness from northern Han Chinese admixture, otherwise they would be short like the Mongols and Japanese.

Northern Han people have mixed with Persians. During the early Tang Dynasty, many Persian captive women were brought back to China via Tajikistan and northern Afghanistan through military victories. Some Tang emperors had Persian concubines. Later, these Tang and Sung aristocrats migrated to south China after the Khitan invasions. So, both north and south Chinese have Persian blood as well. I will someday teach my children this history as they have connections to it.
Short Chinese guy married to an Iranian beauty    Monday, November 12, 2001 at 23:52:17 (PST)
Tang Dynasty,

In Toisan, we live in close proximity with Hakka peoples. There is no real physical differences as you claim. I have many uncles who were born to Hakka parents but they were sold to Toisan villagers in need of children. They all look the same as us. In fact, I cannot really tell the differences between Toisan, other Cantonese and Hakkas in Guangdong. But, the Cantonese and Hakkas who live in Vietnam, Malaysia, Thailand look different from us as they have intermarried with local women.

I have seen Uygur people in China, and they look more Han than Japanese (dispelling the Altaic factor). And, the Japanese language is still not firmly established to be an Altaic one (Britannica Encyclopedia). Nor is Korean. We must remember, that ancient Han Chinese language lacked tones (features of Korean and Japanese), and thus the pre-Chin Dynasty language may have been quite intermediate between Turkic and Korean-Japanese. Many Japanese, do actually look either southern Chinese, Korean or Vietnamese. I have seen many Japanese girls from Japan who have the same face and bone structure as Vietnamese girls. So, we can't really say that they are all Han Chinese. The Yamato clan might have derived from the ancient Chin Dynasty sage Dufu who was sent from Shandong and Jiangsu to retrieve some magical potion or life extending medicine for the Chin emperor. He went with a colony of young men and women and never returned.

And, yes, in Turkey they also roast and hang their meats (Donner kabobs), much like the southern Han Chinese do with their ducks, chicken and pork.
George    Monday, November 12, 2001 at 17:25:59 (PST)
yo guys, this thread is about height
-you other people need to goto the Comparing Asian Nationalities thread

IMO, for an asian guy, there are disadvantages of being 6+ feet. unless you're super good looking, youre gonna have a hard time finding any woman. and if you're not into dating outside of your race, good luck trying to find a tall asian woman. they exist, but there arent too many of them out there.
now if you dont mind breaking your back kissing and holding hands with a little girl then i see no problem.
emetib    Monday, November 12, 2001 at 15:18:05 (PST)

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