Asian Life in Los Angeles | Asian American Poll

ASIAN LIFE IN LOS ANGELES
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WHAT YOU SAY

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GeoffDB02,

"Korean sell merchandise in black neighborhoods and it's lopsided for them to give back to the community they do business in? Isn't this what we expect of IBM, Compaq, HP, Safeway, GM, etc?"

These small Korean gorcery stores in the poor section of town pull in on average 80K to 100K a year in NYC. If you are not familar with businesses, that is extremely low income. I don't know if there is any money left to give, given the fact they have to support their whole family and their business on it. You can't compare them to multi-billion dollar companies. And they definitely are not a church. Would you ask the corner drug dealer and clockers to donate to the community. They make much more.

"I ask for in return for my hard earned dollars is courtesy and quality service. In the same respect, I'm sure many Korean storeowners would appreciate young black kids not stealing their merchandise. Respect works both ways; it is earned"

You think on day 1 when a Korean grocer opens his store he want to diss his customers, doesn't make sense. You really think he like telling his son to watch all the customers, instead of doing his homework.

Doesn't it make more sense that the Korean got all cynical, becuase punk kids were coming into his store stealing, asking for free cups, and what other BS he had to put up with to make that $1 - $5 average sale.

I'm not here to lay blame. But customers not stealing, shouldn't that be a given no matter how poor the customer is?

Following your logic did IBM, Compaq, HP, Safeway, GM earn your respect and that's why you don't try to steal from them. Or is because the companies can afford a huge system to ensure that you don't steal from them.

If blacks really want Korean shop owner out of the community or change their behavior the blacks need to open their black owner grocery stores, and compete for market share with better customer service. This would force the market place to change.

However, my belief is that if a black (or anyone) openned a grocery store in those neighborhood they would become as cynical as the korean, because of all the BS they have to deal with to get that $1-$5 average sale.

This is business problem and require a business solution, not a political one.

AC Dropout Friday, May 03, 2002 at 09:10:31 (PDT)

GeoffDB02,

"However, in all fairness, Asians do tend to cope with white bullshit alot better than they cope with black people's bullshit. Why not a total no-bullshit policy regardless of race?"

Well from my personal experience with bullshit handling Blacks are more prone with confrontational bullshit. It comes from the don't diss me attitude. If you don't know the guy, he think anything you do is dissing him. I fought over sneakers to walkman with blacks as a kid.

As for whites, there was only one time some cracker called me a Mr. Miyagi and I had to whop his butt in a Mckey D when I was younger. Most of the time when white deal their bullshit, they leave you a non-confrontational out. Everything from "We require a Jacket and Tie" to "I think you're overqualified and would not be happy hear."

If these knuckle headed blacks would learn these method of non-confrontational dissing, maybe there would be less of an issue.
AC Dropout Friday, May 03, 2002 at 08:38:58 (PDT)

To GeoffDB02:

"Hey, I have no problem with Asians doing business in black communities. All I ask for in return for my hard earned dollars is courtesy and quality service. In the same respect, I'm sure many Korean storeowners would appreciate young black kids not stealing their merchandise. Respect works both ways; it is earned."

I agree with your premise that storeowners and customers need to respect each other however I think you are setting up a false comparison between courtesy on the one hand and theft on the other.

I feel that shopkeepers should be courteous, fair and diligent in their service to their customers because it makes good business sense and is socially just.

Customers should not steal from shopkeepers because it is criminal.

I am hesitant to say that one behavior should modify the other. Regardless of theft, a shopkeeper should be courteous to his/her customers in general b/c it is the only way they are going to continue to attract customers. Rudeness however is not illegal. A shopkeeper must earn respect, but none of us have to earn the protection of the law.

Customers, regardless of the service they receive, should refrain from stealing b/c it is illegal. If a shopkeeper is rude, don't patronize th store. But using theft as a response to rudeness is vigilantism and blackmail.

Of course, I understand in the "real world" such distinctions are likely lost in application (especially when a majority of the shoplifters are children and teens)and that pragmatism may require shopkeepers to be polite simply to protect their inventory. But at least here in cyberspace we have the luxury of being able to wrestle with ideas. There is just something disturbing to me about a loaded condition whereby people are confronted with a situation of "Be nice to me or I will do something criminal to you."
Man of Lha-sa(mancha) Friday, May 03, 2002 at 07:27:18 (PDT)

To GeoffDB02:
You stated:"Hey, I have no problem with Asians doing business in black communities. All I ask for in return for my hard earned dollars is courtesy and quality service. In the same respect, I'm sure many Korean storeowners would appreciate young black kids not stealing their merchandise. Respect works both ways; it is earned."

Let us get one thing straight here, if you want respect and courtesy go home and get some from your family. We are talking about a store that sells products and not courtesy. Do you think blacks are respectful of Asians? Go to any store in the United States and see if the people there are respectful of Asians or anybody for that matter? Some are and some are not, but that is the reality of life.

You want respect for your hard earned dollars? Think for a minute and then tell me if you get respect at every establishment you spend money at. I have an odd feeling that you are probably like me and do not get respectful treatment from quite a few places that you spend money at. How come the Korean business man is singled out in your mind? Do you not take disrespectful treatment from people of your own race? I think we all take a certain amount of disrespect from all kinds of people. Then again you could be quite different from me and get a lot of respect from many individuals, if so - I congratulate you.

Respectfully,

Lucky Strike Thursday, May 02, 2002 at 21:27:16 (PDT)

GeoffDB02:
You're the one who is full of bullshit reading your post sounds just like a typical black shifting blame. Who are you trying to fool?
After all your ranting BOTTOM LINE is it was BLACKS and HISPANICS who were doing the looting and not whites, RIGHT!
Do you even know the definition of "Disproportion?"
Crime is too high in America but DISPROPORTIONALLY blacks committ much much more than whites. Of course moron there are more white crimals simply because there are much more whites in US than blacks but now lets compare it by "per capita"
Now what cry baby?
All you blacks ever do is ask for "RESPECT" you people are the most annoying brash people of the face of the earth. Your kids lack any kind of displine then you meet one of their mamas you know why.
Asian Americans can hire anyone they want, they can open up their business any where they want, you don't like it DON'T SHOP THERE! Besides who the hell wants to hire help that shows up whenever they want, yeah, I'm speaking from experience. You are what's wrong with blacks.

LA chica
Funny you claim you are Asian and mentioned the incident involving the Corean Shop keeper and the black girl that was killed but you failed to mentioned how many Asian Americans are killed by blacks all over this country. How about that? My friend's mother was killed by low life black guy, all she did was try to make a honest living. You're most likely a ghetto liberal sympathizer. I bet you have a pass to Jesse Jackson' rainbow coalition party. I know you haven't even spent a month working in a black neighborhood.
Its you people who rioted! Thursday, May 02, 2002 at 18:11:53 (PDT)

Is that you penelope? Anyways, the two posts were very similar and extremely well thought out. Yeah I did over generalize a bit there, you are right. I don't think Asians should "be passive" and "know their place," you said I thought that just so this is clear. I just meant to say that the business owners in the area should have treated their customer base (blacks and Latinos) a little better. But you are right; there was no reason for what happened there. That was pure bulls*it. Sorry for some of the stuff I said. This debate has been very emotional and I think some people are saying things that they do not necessarily mean at times. What happened in L.A. must never happen again.
Ho-Ho Looter (that's a joke BTW) to penelope and L.A. chica Thursday, May 02, 2002 at 13:43:18 (PDT)

GeoffDB02:
I make no excuse for knuckleheads as well, the fact of the matter is that statistics can lie. The disproportional crime statics are largely, not totally, a result of "selective" law enforcement leading quite naturally in a distorted perception of crime by demographics.
As you correctly pointed out crime sells, hate sells, racism sells, poverty sells, tradegy sells, pick up any news publication or watch the evening news and challenge this hypothesis if you can.
Here in Phila Asians and Blacks live side by side, and in "some" neighborhoods practically are indistinguishable in their behavior.
They succeed together, fail together, volunteer together, sell drugs together, listen to music together, shop for clothes in the same stores, have romance and sex together, well you get the picture.
see it everyday all day Thursday, May 02, 2002 at 13:20:37 (PDT)

To L.A. Chica:

Regarding Latasha Harlans,

"Surveillance videotape showed the teenager girl left money on the counter, she was not trying to shoplift, and yet the Judge felt that intentionally shooting a girl in the back of the head deserved a lesser sentence than vehicular manslaughter. . ."

The videotape also showed that the girl and shopkeeper were involved in a physical altercation immediately before the shooting (generally edited out of the broadcast news version). Ms. Du grabbed the girl's sweater and Latasha Harlans punched her twice in the head. I haven't been able to locate the trial court decision, but according to the Ct. of Appeals of California decision (7 Cal Rptr. 2d 177) Latasha Harlans put the juice in her backpack before reaching the counter and she died with two dollars in her hand.

I am NOT trying to say that Latasha deserved it, or that shooting a girl is a proper response to a possible shoplifting. I whole-heartedly believe that Ms. Du was in the wrong and acted in a reprehensible fashion. HOWEVER, I don't think it's fair to leave out essential facts when telling the story of Ms. Harlan's death either. By reading the facts you've given, one might conclude that Ms. Du was just some homicidal maniac who wanted to shoot a customer who paid for merchandise. Just as one cannot truly understand the Vincent Chin story without being aware of the socio-economic condition in Michigan in the early 80s and the rise of Japanese automakers, I think that the physical altercation between Ms. Du and Ms. Harlans is an essential part of the story here.

Again, let me stress that I do not think that the fight deminishes Ms. Du's culpability. It was a reason NOT an excuse. It was this "reason" that led to Ms. Du's conviction for voluntary homicide (done in the hear of passion) rather than murder ("depraved heart" or premeditated).

Simultaneously, the "rudeness" or "aloofness" of Korean shopkeepers may be reasons for the riots BUT such attitudes and behaviors are not excuses for burning, looting and homicide.

Admittedly, I live in a lily-white neighborhood in the East, have never been to South Central, and have never worked in an urban convenience store so maybe I'm biased, but I do agree that alot of APAs would better spend their time trying to understand our neighbors and less in stereotyping them.
Man of Lha-sa(mancha) Thursday, May 02, 2002 at 13:11:21 (PDT)

LA Chica:

You wrote:
"One very important lesson for Asians to learn from the riots is that when human emotion is stripped down to its rawest form, and you come upon a similar situation in which you will be judged soley by what you look like, it isn't going to do much good to defensively posture that you're not Korean, you're Taiwanese/Japanese/Filipino/Vietnamese or whatever. If you are surrounded by a hostile group looking for a scapegoat, if you look like a duck, you're a duck. Talk to non-Korean Asians about their experiences during the riots and if they went anywhere near the tension zone, they probably have stories to tell."

I totally agree with you. On this board I see all this brickering among various Asian groups- it's quite pathetic. During the LA Riots, there were many non-Korean Asians chased down and beaten up because somebody thought they were Korean. I had friends who were chased down during the riots- they were Taiwanese-American, but mistaken for being Korean. The person kept pleading he was not Korean, but they didn't listen. Reminds me of stories during WWII when Chinese-Americans businessowners would post sings "I'm not Japanese, I'm Chinese."

I agree with you- if you look like a duck, you're a duck!
Non-Korean Asian Thursday, May 02, 2002 at 12:33:04 (PDT)

All I ask for in return for my hard earned dollars is courtesy and quality service. In the same respect, I'm sure many Korean storeowners would appreciate young black kids not stealing their merchandise. Respect works both ways; it is earned.

that's probably the best thing that has been said so far.

penelope    Thursday, May 02, 2002 at 11:26:28 (PDT)
"I am in South Central every day (and no, my family does not own a store). By the way, I am an Asian female and the reason why I have not had a problem in South Central (or Compton, or Watts, or Lynwood, Florence, Inglewood, Crenshaw or Long Beach or anywhere else) is that unlike YOU, I do not generalize entire races of people, I actually get to know people as individuals first. "

I likewise live around that neighborhood and have had no difficulties interacting with Blacks and Latinos. BUT, i recognize the fact that it's probably because I'm an Asian FEMALE. did that ever cross your mind? or did you think it's just because you're open-mindedness was just constantly shining and that people saw that and respected you? what a joke. this is l.a.
penelope    Thursday, May 02, 2002 at 11:24:38 (PDT)
LA Chica:

A year before the Rodney King aquittal, a Korean shopkeeper killed a black teenager over a carton of orange juice and received only probation. Surveillance videotape showed the teenager girl left money on the counter, she was not trying to shoplift, and yet the Judge felt that intentionally shooting a girl in the back of the head deserved a lesser sentence than vehicular manslaughter

You obviously did not watch the surveillance video. The 'young teenage girl' was twice the size of soon ja du. she left no money on the counter. she pummelled soon ja du's face twice, ms. du fell, and was knocked down to the floor AGAIN. ms. du thought she was being robbed, picked up her gun from under the counter, and shot.

self-defense measures what a person in her shoes would have reasonably believed. unlike most of criminal and tort law, self-defense takes into consideration a person's subjective qualities. this is because a person's judgement is usually and reasonably impaired during such situations. thus, ms. du, who was robbed twice at gunpoint the month before, may have reasonably believed that her life was in danger when this big, fat girl who stuck the orange juice in her backpack without paying walked up to the counter and punched her in the face, not once, but FIVE times.

self-defense is supposed to be a complete, opposed to mitigating, defense. the judge, therefore, ruled harshly when he sentenced her to five years probation.

it's great, l.a. chica, that you said what you said, however. i think it's a testament to how people just buy into whatever they hear in the media.
penelope    Thursday, May 02, 2002 at 11:20:28 (PDT)

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