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ASIAN LIFE IN LOS ANGELES
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WHAT YOU SAY

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The Chinese, Japanese and Filipinos have been in the U.S. in large numbers much longer than the Koreans. Why is it we all got along just fine before the Koreans arrived in large numbers? Since the Koreans have arrived in the U.S., we have seen riots, shootings, boycotts and an all around rise in tension and apathy between Asians (Koreans)Blacks and Hispanics. What is the prblem? I think a big part of the problem is the Korean tradition. If Confucius could see what Koreans have done to his teachings, he would laugh. No other Asian culture takes Confucius's teachings and twist it to the point of being ridiculous. Koreans live their daily lives constantly wondering if that person or this person did not give proper respect. When Koreans argue among themselves, the role of tradition always plays a big part. My advice is to live your life more like other Asians,where tradition is not the rule but common sense and "Whatever" is the norm. Now that I've totally pissed off every Korean reading this, my advice to Korean store owners is a Confucius proverb. "One who cannot smile, should never open a shop".
ABC married to Korean who understands.(ABConfu) Friday, May 03, 2002 at 17:43:52 (PDT)

To Man of Lha-sa:

We do see eye-to-eye on this issue. My comparison was not articulated well because it was pretty late at night when I wrote my post here. I was trying to make a point in a concise way.

My family and I are crime victims, too. Violence must never be tolerated. Two horrible mistakes were my by LAPD before and during the 1992 riots. First, they hired overly aggressive cops who thought it was fun to beat up on minorities. Secondly, they allowed hoodlums to run rampant in the neighborhood and victimize innocent people, shop owners.

You're right, you can't connect poor service to justification for stealing and looting. However, poor social conditions affect the social structure of our communities and, in reality, tend to drive people to get emotional instead of intelligently discussing differences on a rational basis.

I don't believe in rewarding criminals. I do, however, respect African-Americans who boycot storeowners who only views them as a dollar bill that they'd much rather earn in a fair-skinned white neighborhood and thus treat blacks poorly simply because you're a "black face" who walks in their store and they begin contemplating all the negative stereotypes that they'll probably experience from you.

I haven't been in too many corner stores lately, so I hope the landscape has changed.

As a society, we must respect the rule of law and protest to get socio-political change in a orderly fashion. Rioting and ravaging your own community is unlawful and idiotic.
Geoff DB GeoffDB02@aol.com Friday, May 03, 2002 at 13:07:27 (PDT)

Lucky Strike:

Actually, most of the Asian establishments that I frequent - and believe me I do patronize many of them - the clerks are courteous and the product quality is superior. That's all I was trying to say. When honest, hardworking Americans buy products/service/merchandise from computer stores, restaurants, cleaners, retail shops, etc. we want to feel welcome and respected. This goes out the door when someone is trying to rip you off.

I've been the victim of thieves and it's no fun. The last thing you want to hear from a robber is complaints about HIS civil rights being violated. Give me a break!!!

When I was a little boy, my friends and I used to go buy merchandise at a corner store owned by an Asian guy. We reluctantly went to buy only essential items for our parents when the father worked the counter. HOWEVER, when the word got out in the neighborhood that his son was working the counter, all the kids would flock to the store. His son was a cool guy. He didn't talk down to us or be rude. That's all I'm talking about.

As far as using all the big corporations as an example of good corporate citizenship - I'm sorry. It was a poor analogy. I was just using some names that I'm familiar with. In all fairness to Asian store owners I know they work their butts off. It's hard operating a small business. You have to work long hours and you're accountable whether the business succeeds or fails.

There's alot that African-Americans can learn from Asian businesses and Asian culture, in general.
Geoff DB GeoffDB02@aol.com Friday, May 03, 2002 at 12:49:15 (PDT)

AC Dropout:

The two of us could never engage in a solid, constructive debate because we're too emotionally charged. I find your negative generalizations of African-Americans appalling. Simply put, we can only engage in tit-for-tat and I have no interest in that type of discussion.

I will save my comments for other posters who really want a serious debate.
Geoff DB GeoffDB02@aol.com Friday, May 03, 2002 at 12:36:54 (PDT)

I want to make something clear here. The Hispanics looting in the riots were largely from Central America/ El Salvador, they were not Mexican, well maybe one or two. The recent immigrants from Central American are unfortunately accustomed to that kind of war-like environment in their countries and probably thought that this was an ok thing to do under the circumstances. They saw the opportunity and took it as vulgar as that may seem. I can attest that most Mexicans were sitting back with a bag of Doritos and bottle of Pepsi or beer watching this happen on the six o'clock news. Mexicans are loud when they protest, but do not normally riot especially for this kind of crap. We are too damn lazy to do it anyways.

The riots were so wrong and unjustifiable it makes my blood boil to see people making excuses for it. I was almost attacked driving in the area when it happened as well. It is sad what happened to the shopkeepers plain and simple, I couldn�t even begin to imagine what they went through. They never deserved that, but when you swim with the sharks you always have to watch your back.

Mexican Burrito Breath in LA Friday, May 03, 2002 at 11:24:55 (PDT)

Penelope,

I'm glad we both saw the video regarding Ms. Du and Ms. Harlans. Personally, however, I don't think that the judge was really that "harsh" regarding Ms. Du's sentence. As I understand it, the court gave out a lighter sentence not because of Ms. Du's self-defence argument but rather because she was acting in the heat of the moment (voluntary manslaughter). I'm guessing that the trial court just did not accept Ms. Du's self-defence argument at all and thus did not apply it as any kind of defense.
Man of Lha-sa(mancha) Friday, May 03, 2002 at 10:52:33 (PDT)

L.A. Chica

You have to read the court transcript before you make statements!

First, the jury (not the judge) did find Soon Ja Du guilty of voluntarily manslaughter for the death of Latasha Harlins.

Penal Code section 1203 says "Except in unusual cases where the interest of justice would best be served if the person is granted probation, probation shall not be granted to any person who used a deadly weapon upon a human being in connection with the perpetration of the crime of which he as been convicted"

The judge, then looked to see if Soon Ja Du fit into the "unusual cases" catagory.

Factors:
1. She had no priors.
2. She was scared out of her wits
3. The victim was the initial pepetrator.

The defense appealed to the Courts of Appeals.

That court found that the trial couort did not abuse its discretion and that unless the decision "exceed the bounds of reason" the decision will stand.

The Appeals court also said that the Penal Code 1203 is "aimed at criminals who arm themselves and go out and commit crimes. (like those who weekly steal from Soon Ja Du's store) IT is not aimed at shopkeepers who lawfully possess firearms for their owqn protection".

The Appeals court continued "The defendant has no recent record, in fact, no record at all of cimmitting similar crimes or crimes of violence. I find that the defendant participated in the crime under circumstances of great provocation, coersion, and duress"

What is this great provocation, coersion and duress Soon Ja Du experienced? Well, Witnesses Lakeshia Combs (sista?) and her brother Ismail Ali (brotha?) testified that when Harlins was asked to pay for the juice, she answered "What juice"? Du then sent for the backpack to show the conceled juice. (Any Mervyns or Target security will do the same thing). Then the shoving occured. Harlins punched Du in the eye twice, and was going to hit her again. Harlins threated to kill Du. This is why the Appeals court found that under this case fits under "unusual circumstances" and that the probation handed to Du was appropriate. The California Supreme Court denied review.

Thus, while there are those who feel that this is a case of racism and that the judge who gave probation is unsympathetic to Blacks, the probation condition was affirmed by a higher court who found that it was indeed appropriate.

Once can hardly conclude that the probation that Soon Ja Du received was lightly decided.
Neither Black nor Korean Friday, May 03, 2002 at 10:12:25 (PDT)

To GeoffDB02

If you read The transcript of People v. Soon Ja Du (the lady who killed Latacha Harlins) it says:

1. The victim placed the orange juice in the backpack at the shelf. Lakeshia Combs and her brother Ismail Ali testified that when the grocer asked the victim if she was going to pay for the juice, she answered "What juice?". The grocer grabbed the backpack and the struggle ensued.

2. The son of that same grocer testified that he was threated by 10 to 14 black persons who entered the store on December 19, 1990, and robbed him and that the shopliifting occurs 40 times per week. When he tries to stop the shoplifters, "they show me their guns"....

With these 2 of the many facts that were delinated in the trial transcripts in 1 and 2 above, WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME who is NOT being "Good citizens"? While you assert that the Koreans who sell in black neighborhoods are not good "corporate citizens" you expect us to assume that the community has been is upstanding. Showing guns when attempting to shoplift something that you did not pay for is not being a "good citizen". The black community outrage seems to forget their own transgressions.

About the misquote by the black editor, nope, he is not "average citizen" brotha who I gotta give a break to. He is an editor who appeared on nationwide television, and an intelligent, educated man. He is held to a higher standard than the "average citizen" and when he makes a major blunder like that, pointing it out is not a cheap shot. He plainly f**ed up, thats all.

In closing, sure, you demand respect from the grocers in your neighborhood, then demand that you, the customers GIVE respect. Don't rob, steal, threaten, show guns or deny that you placed the juice in the backpack!

Neither Black nor Korean Friday, May 03, 2002 at 09:51:12 (PDT)

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