Martial Arts & Fighting Forms | Asian American Poll

MARTIAL ARTS & FIGHTING FORMS
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WHAT YOU SAY

[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]

To Korean Boy,
>The biggest difference between any other stand up kicking from Karate , TKD etc to that of Muay Thai is that Muay Thai kicks swing through your target (which involves your whole body)and you open your hips when you do this other kicks are more like chamber kicks where the power comes from the leg only.

Yeah but Muay Thai kicks are easily fore-guessed, since the kicker swings his whole leg... and I only see roundhouse kicks used in Muay Thai.

The good thing about TKD kicks are that it's very dynamic, difficult to fore-guess the kick, and in TKD, the kicker trains to counter attack a kick instead of going of on a blocking retreat like in Muay Thai.

Also in TKD, the power isn't just off the leg snapping, its also off the hip. Look at the sidekick and roundhouse kick in TKD. I haven't seen any other kicking art who puts the hip rotation as much as TKD. Its just not noticeable. Look at the hip angle to the target when a TKD kicker kicks.

In Muay Thai, from what I've seen is the kicker cuts up, the hip isn't parallel to the target.
ITF TKD Wednesday, December 25, 2002 at 02:04:40 (PST) [43.232.36.210]

I used to be a WTF taekwondo practitioner; hoever, I have changed styles since the sport TKD limits too many things. Can't punch to the head, can't kick under the belt, and during a match if you get in too close people just end up hugging each other..... its just a sport now, which i hate to say.

However, I think the ITF Taekwondo is good, its just I can't freakin find a place that teaches it. The ITF Taekwondo is a force to be reckon with... the original TaeKwondo people such as HeeIlCho were ITF practictioners, and these guys went up w/ other styles when they first came to America.
ITF TKD? Wednesday, December 25, 2002 at 01:53:25 (PST) [43.232.36.210]

The Wing Tsun controversy and all the other Wing Chun fractions around the world is that their Wing Chun system is better than any others.

The one you mentioned Wing Tsun is headed by Sifu Leung Ting and he is fill of controversy regarding his system. His organization is the most marketed and largest WT in the world. Some say it is a marketing machine like TKD and it's goal is to have one in every street corner. One of his students, Emin Botzboetz or something like that, tried to challege Sifu William Cheung, a student of Yip Man, at a seminar. The results were inconclusive but now there is bad blood between Leung Ting's and William Cheung's organizations.

Add to the fact that there is now the old guard like Wong Shum Leung - now deceased, Yip Chun and Yip Shum, Yip Man's sons, Eddie Chong and a host of other older Wing chun sifus claiming that what they know is the original. You have a huge host of differences and ideologies.

Because of Leung Ting's arrogance and William Cheung's infalliablity they created in their generations you now have a divided martial arts that was once strong but now weak.

I have a Uncle that was practising Wing Chun in HK in the 50's and 60's when Yip Man was alive. He was part of the workers Union for Bus Drivers and Cabbies who were taking WC at the time Yip Man was teaching it to them at their Union. When Yip Man decided to break off and open up his own official school, my uncle and several others decided to practiced on their own rather than learn the now dilluted WC. Thus most of the WC since after that time Yip Man has either been modified or changed. I remembered one time my Dad showed my Uncle the WingTsun Book by Leung Ting at the time it was the first book to publicly describe Wing Chun and my Uncle systematically pick the forms apart saying that his arm was held too high or it was the wrong stance to be in.

I've asked my Uncle several times to teach me his version of Wing Chun but he would always decline and mentioned that he was too old. He tells me that you can only teach another person by actual fighting with someone else. You can teach them the forms but without actually getting your hands dirty you can't test the system out. Another fact that he knows something but I repectfully understand where he is coming from as another martial artist to another. The last thing he wants in his life is to teach another newbie the martial arts and if he screws up it up, then it is his responsiblity to clean it up and he just wants to retire now.

I told him that I do internal martial arts like Tai Chi and others and he tells me he does walking as his main exercise and the only chi kung he does is farting. A witty old geezer. But, Hey, I like my uncle direct and a diamond in the rough. He knows his shit more so than most of these ego bastards posing for Martial Arts magazine coverage.

Anyway, the Wing Tsun stance you mentioned is the pigeon-toed stance and its usefulness is only in the Sil-lum tao form where it is practised like a chi gung exercise. The side-ling stance which comes from the second form Chum Kui is the fight stance for Wing Chun which is similar to a Western boxer's stance. I've also heard that several of Leung Tings groups have modified WT to incorporate WT in anti-grabble or wrestling techniques. It does make some sense that you can add WT moves with another martial art. Look at Jeet Kune Do - Kick-boxing with Wing Chun so why not wrestling with WT? You have to just modified it by doing it in the ground as oppose to fighting stancing up.
Mar-nut Tuesday, December 24, 2002 at 12:38:03 (PST) [65.58.56.26]

I have not been following this post too much but, when it comes to martial arts it is better to cross train. You have to be in good condition to be able to do the physical things that are taught in martial arts. Bruce Lee trained hard and so does most top mixed martial artists. Bruce Lee also cross trained too.
Boxing is good with its punches and conditioning training. Same goes with wing chun with its punches and deflective techniques.

TKD is good with the spinning kicks but, I would also study Muay Thai for infighting technique and its deadly round house kicks .The biggest difference between any other stand up kicking from Karate , TKD etc to that of Muay Thai is that Muay Thai kicks swing through your target (which involves your whole body)and you open your hips when you do this other kicks are more like chamber kicks where the power comes from the leg only.
Judo(gi throw) and wrestling(body takedowns by hooking) is good for take downs and defense to it. Sambo and Brazilain Jiu-jitsu is great for ground technique.
There is no martial arts that single handly has all of this. I don't want to get into details about the differences but if you study various arts you see pro and cons in it.
Korean boy Tuesday, December 24, 2002 at 07:47:38 (PST) [128.122.104.191]

[Illiterate nonsense about free speech, Boston, Jewish Defense League, etc, etc omitted.]
Now everybody seems level headed about martial arts. As true or superficial martial artist. You cannot compare or say someone else martial arts is better than someone else. The fact is every martial arts has weak and strong points. why?? each martial arts emphasize on their own styles. For example, Taekwondo has great kicks, Kyokushinkai has great defence, Hapikido, has geat bone breaking technic etc. As long you're open minded you will not get into trouble.
JDL Monday, December 23, 2002 at 07:18:19 (PST) [216.148.246.70]

[Your posts won't get ethered as long as you have something relevant to say and observe our rules. Posting here is a privilege, not a right. Keep pestering us with ignorant free-speech rants and we will ban you for good. --Ed]

hello everyone- i'll just post one last time on this subject:

sorry if i've sounded immature =)

i practiced wing chun for 6-7 years- from my father (who competed against the thai in HK muay thai tournaments when he was younger). wing chun requires tremendous endurance and intensity- but it's possible for women to do well because of the power system.

i learned jiu-jitsu- only about a year and a half, but i was a 4yr high school wrestler- so after i discovered the big differences in wrestling and jiu-jitsu, i learned quickly.

i practiced basic thai boxing kicks but without full devotion, and never developed the padded shins, and learned english boxing technique from a family friend (and my father has many martial art friends)

recently i've discovered the theory of tai chi- which i hate seeing young guys pretend to practice. but they say that if you start young there is awesome potential for destruction =) =)

i am biased towards these martial arts. maybe everything i've read and learned about all martial arts is blinded by these views. but i think they are superior to others. if i had more time to study them maybe i would. but i'll never be a serious martial artist because i wanna be an elite triathlete, haha.. and a businessman. you need a different mindset to be a great martial artist- (that's my opinion)- but i'm absolutely sure i won't waste time doing something i can't be the best at.

so i'll just practice tai chi in my spare time for health reasons to benefit my business priority, and maybe when i'm 80 i'll be pretty good at fighting.. hahaha
TM 21 Saturday, December 21, 2002 at 10:36:18 (PST) [12.107.146.30]

More to ask about the Wing Tsun stance to any practitioner here:
(1)Is that stance just for basic practice or also for fighting stance? Since the stance doesn't protect the groin area, I supposed it's more of a basic practice stance.
(2)In Wing Tsun system, other than trapping on close range, does Wing Tsun also specialize in holds and grappling?

I was actually going to Wing Tsun first before i went to Kenpo. However, because of the SOB that ran the place and being there's only that Wing Tsun school in SA, I chose to go to Kenpo instead. I just hate it when these so called "masters" think they're so hot just because they ran a dojo.
This guy had this kind of advertising: he told people who wanted to go there to punch him and then he'll trap their punching hand. Well, this friend of mine (also in martial arts) who is interested in Wing Tsun went there and when the "master" told him to punch him, he faked his first punch and landed the second one close to the "master's" cheek. "Master" got angry and yelled "You weren't supposed to fake your punch!". Pretty funny, I must say.
Arde Friday, December 20, 2002 at 16:07:46 (PST) [24.26.255.128]

SPRNZ:

Bruce Lee didn't invent Wing Chun rather the other way around. It was Yip Man his teacher who developed the Modern Form of Wing Chun that you see today.

Bruce modified it by adding kickboxing and everything else to spruce Wing Chun up. WC was originally used against other traditional kungfu arts where the opponent extends their arms out and leaves it there like in the forms not too effective today where the emphasis is quick in and quick out like in boxing. What you can't stick to you, you can't lop sau with.

The Wing Chun stance is not effective for fighting it is only used for the first form as a stance training tool. It is better to stand like a boxer with your arms up and your hands and elbows protecting your guard when you fight. You still need to have some strenght to use it. It is consider more an external\internal art where when you deflect it becomes like TaiChi and when you attack you hit like a boxer.

The limitations that I see in Wing Chun is the emphasis of multiple patty cake punches instead of developing knockout punches in Western Boxing. Thus a Wing Chun person will stand up straight while fighting and not move their hips only to move their entire body to face the opponent. With no hip movement you have to punch more punches to get the same effect as a single instrinsic punch of a western boxer. The only nice thing I like about WC is the use of their arms to sense an opponents movements but then TaiChi uses their whole body to do sensing.

Glad to hear that you are exploring other martial arts other than the now white boy martial sport of TKD, unless you are white. You will realize that there are other arts out there besides TKD. Every Art has their own limitations and It is up to the individual to compensate for it.
Mar-nut Friday, December 20, 2002 at 10:36:46 (PST) [63.211.247.21]

Hi guys,

Any of you guys know about "Wing Chun Stance"??. I heard it is a form of Chinese Kungfu, very suitable for female to practice b'coz it doesn't require brute force or muscles(well, my muscles tone up already) :). Anyway, Wing Chun Stance is based on the principle of using opponent's energy to redirect thier energy back to them. This stance is very effective. I also heard that Bruce Lee Jeet Kun Do was originated from this style.

I wanna quit TKD, and I am interested in Wing Chun Stance.

Any one know about Wing Chun Stance?.
SPRNZ Friday, December 20, 2002 at 00:22:50 (PST) [210.195.54.62]

"Or maybe it's just the northerners not wanting anything to do with a southern style."

sanshou orgin is in southern china? i thought i read a post saying it's from the north? or maybe i'm not understanding what you're tryin to say?
Mr. Hann Thursday, December 19, 2002 at 22:56:09 (PST) [24.242.251.65]

TSJ,

I think we are missing the point of the Olympic Spirit and amateur sports.

As for martial arts most people believe it has already evolved since the advent of the gun.
AC Dropout Thursday, December 19, 2002 at 12:15:58 (PST) [24.136.115.189]

[Juvenile insults and threats omitted]
Bostoncream Thursday, December 19, 2002 at 06:25:25 (PST) [170.224.224.102]

[Boston Whatever: Your posts are mostly illiterate, repetitive hate-rants. Unless you learn to write grammatically and have something to add to the discussion, your future posts go to the ether. Try an unedited teen graffitti site. --Ed]

"The same crap is gonna happen to Chinese Wu-Shu when China hosts the Olympics in 2008 and Wu-Shu becomes an Olympic event."

Why don't they have SanShou instead of Wushu as an event? Or maybe it's too brutal? It's almost equivalent to Muay Thai events, but with wrestling also. Or maybe it's just the northerners not wanting anything to do with a southern style.
TSJ Eric@KristinKreuk.net Wednesday, December 18, 2002 at 14:53:59 (PST) [67.116.231.87]

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