Asian Life in San Francisco | Asian American Poll

ASIAN LIFE IN SAN FRANCISCO
(Updated Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 05:08:56 PM to reflect the 100 most recent valid responses.)

Which San Francisco Bay area offers the best environment for Asian Americans?
Downtown SF | 47%
East Bay | 31%
Marin County | 8%
South San Francisco | 14%

What's the best thing about living in the San Francisco Bay area?
Breathtaking Scenic Beauty | 40%
Clean Air | 19%
Lots of Fine Chinese Restaurants | 15%
Asians Everywhere | 18%
Great Universities, Skiing and Wine | 8%
What's the worst thing about living in the San Francisco Bay area?
No Summer Weather | 12%
Perpetual Gridlock | 40%
Too Crowded with Asians | 1%
Shortage of Decent Housing | 47%

This poll is closed to new input.
Comments posted during the past year remain available for browsing.

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WHAT YOU SAY

[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]

TSJ,

Well, let me begin the discussion again...

Hey, by all means, discover ur roots! It seems like this country doesn't have anything to offer to Asians that is worthy with the exception of money and the American dream (and this may not be the true anymore).

Ok, so maybe many of us want to assimilate into mainstream, but let me tell u, it ain't happening because the mainstream doesn't want us to assimilate. They want minorities (ie. Blacks, Latinos) to assimilate, but the Asians are the exception to the rule, due to reasons of competition and rivalry-that sort of thing.

I don't know about the current situation of the SF-Bay Area and the rest of California, but here in the East Coast, the Chinese are far from selling out. If u compared them to the Koreans and the Japanese, our communities are large, and with the huge influx of Fuchows who are now rivals to the Cantonese speakers, the Chinatowns become larger and intact, instead of rotting away.

If you think the Chinese disunity is bad, it isn't. We love to compete with one another, and the rivalries has made us dynamic and flexible, while the Koreans and Japanese are stiff and pale. But in reality, there isn't much competition between the Chinese because each group has their own set of skills and talents.

Regarding Hakkas, no one wants to be a called a Hakka, it was a derogatory term for someone who spoke a funny accented Cantonese-meaning ur not a local! I remembered my grandpa was bullied by some Toi San dudes who called him a 'Hakka lo', but the fact of the matter is, my grandpa spoke Cantonese with a slight Teochiu accent..hahaha.

Hakkas were actually the latecomers to Guangdong area who made their life in the mountains and hills, because the Cantonese already occupied the flatlands, and the Teochius took up the coastal areas. Cantonese and some Teochius dislike the Hakkas, but let me tell u, no one says ~#~! about their women. Hakka women are the most desirable when it comes to looks and personality of all of the Southern Chinese females...hahahahaha. And I think it's true because many Toi San/Cantonese and Teochiu girls I have met look like d#g# when compared to Hakka girls.

If u like Northern Chinese gals, go for the Suzhou-Shanghai types. If u like the Southern types who can speak Cantonese, definately go for the Hakka chicks.
LSD Monday, December 16, 2002 at 08:06:30 (PST) [66.212.81.229]

'You know, I've been starting to have some Toi San pride myself recently too. I was probably just ignorant before because I thought that Toi Sans were the majority of Cantonese. I never knew there were so many types.'

Yeah, there is many types of Chinese. Hey, guess what, I might try to start a Chiu Jau-Hoklo website with a Teochiu buddy of mines.

You want to know some famous HK Teochiu celebrities.

1)Ada Choi (Choi Siu Fen)- HKTVB Actor
2)Samantha Cheng - Singer

Most famous Hoklo celebrity is Michelle Yeoh from Malaysia.

Let me explain the difference between Hoklo and Chiu Jau.

Hoklos and Chiu Jaus were formely the same people. Both groups originated from the southern Fujian province. One group migrated south to Guangdong and called themselves Chiu Jau, and then develop a separate identity. The other group remained but then many of them left for Taiwan, coastal areas of Guangdong, and the Philippines. Taiwanese are Hoklos too, and so are some Cantonese speaking folks, and are related to Chiu Jau. But the Taiwanese have a different character and behavior from the mainland folks due to isolation.

Despite common ancestry, these groups dislike one another for petty reasons.

The Fuchow immigrants in the US are a different group from the Hoklo or Chiu Jau, and are not related.

Did u know Hakka and Toi San folks are related? They pretty much share the same ancestors, and one group came to Guangdong earlier. Again, despite common lineage, Toi Sans and Hakkas dislike each other for stupid reasons. Toi San and Hakka have similar facial features which are different from the Chiu Jau-Hoklo face. What divides the Toi Sans/Cantonese and the Hakka is the mentality. Based on stereotypes, the Cantonese is stoic and cunning, and the Hakka is expressive and honest.
LSD Friday, December 06, 2002 at 09:03:24 (PST) [66.212.81.229]

LSD:

I guess things are vastly different between the east and west. Out here, the Cantonese really aren't all that divided. If you can speak Cantonese, you're in. It doesn't matter if you are ABC, HK, Toi San, Chiu Jaw, Vietnamese, etc. If you know Cantonese, you are part of the Cantonese clique. Our main enemy? Of course, it's the Taiwanese. Taiwanese just think they can come in here, and steamroll all that we have established over the years, but the Cantonese ain't havin' it. The third group would be the non-Cantonese mainlanders (Shanghai, Beijing), but their numbers are still quite small, so they have little to no clout whatsoever.

Actually, it is quite surprising that you can actually tell the difference between Toi San, Hakka, Hoklo, Chiu Jau, etc. Like I said, no one here really mentions what their roots are, and if someone asks, it is more out of curiosity. No one cares what kind of Chinese you are. If you are Chinese, you are Chinese. That is, unless you are Taiwanese, who everyone hates.

You know, I've been starting to have some Toi San pride myself recently too. I was probably just ignorant before because I thought that Toi Sans were the majority of Cantonese. I never knew there were so many types.
TSJ Eric@KristinKreuk.net Wednesday, December 04, 2002 at 16:02:45 (PST) [67.116.230.98]

'Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought that all regions of the Guangdong province collectively would be called Cantonese. I didn't know there was a distinct group called Cantonese. For instance, I'm Toi San, but I still call myself Cantonese. It's just like saying I'm from the Bay Area (equivalent to Toi San), which is in California (Guangdong province). So, everyone within California is considered Californian (Cantonese).

So, what is your opinion of Toi Sans? This is what I think. I know we are not the smartest, and definitely not the shadiest, but we are persistent and tolerant. '

TSJ,

Here in the East Coast, we have so many different kinds of Chinese. The early Chinese communities were mainly Toi Sans, then they were mixed with the other groups such as the HKrs, Hakkas, Chiu Jaus (Teochius) and now the Fujianese. In my opinion, the Toi Sans in the West Coast are less critical or brash than the East Coast Counterparts. It probably has to do with the West Coast being more laid back, and more Toi San. I remembered back in my childhood days, Toi San people had a big ego about being Toi San. If u weren't one of them and u lived among them, u were a foreigner and they would poke fun at u. Times have changed, as now Toi Sans are moving out to the suburbs and much of the Chinese communities consist of the other Chinese.

Hakkas and Chiu Jau-Teochiu are from Guangdong as well, but are not regarded as Cantonese because culturally, they are not. But since they have lived among the Toi Sans and the other groups, they are Cantonese in language standards, and from the viewpoints of other groups of Chinese.

Actually, many Cantonese are now beginning to show off their pride, and gloat their wealth. Yeah...we are proving to the Northerners that hey, we got money and u don't, and guess what, we are showing off like u! Now who's superior?
LSD Monday, December 02, 2002 at 09:46:47 (PST) [66.212.81.229]

LSD:

Well I don't really see how people here are more creative than others. Maybe it's just that I've been here my whole life, and I can't compare it to elsewhere.

A-Mei isn't bad. She has a powerful voice, and really knows how to put on a show. She is basically a performer, which is certainly fine. F4 on the other hand is one of the manufactured groups with absolutely no talent. To call them Backstreet Boys or S Club 7 would be a slap in the face to those two because F4 can't sign worth a crap. At least other "bubblegum" groups like *N Sync, BSB, O-Town, and the likes have talent.

Hey, I've been reading your posts under the "Comparing Asian Nationalities." (Sorry, Ed. I know this doesn't belong here, but that forum is far too jumbled with nonsense, my post would get lost in the mix.) This is what you wrote:

"The Cantonese are the most cowardly, yet they are the most clever of the Southern Chinese. The Hakkas are the poorest, yet they are the most educated and intellectual of the Southern Chinese.

The Hoklo are the dumbest, because this is what I have noticed. But their ferocity and aggressiveness compensates their stupidity."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought that all regions of the Guangdong province collectively would be called Cantonese. I didn't know there was a distinct group called Cantonese. For instance, I'm Toi San, but I still call myself Cantonese. It's just like saying I'm from the Bay Area (equivalent to Toi San), which is in California (Guangdong province). So, everyone within California is considered Californian (Cantonese).

So, what is your opinion of Toi Sans? This is what I think. I know we are not the smartest, and definitely not the shadiest, but we are persistent and tolerant. We take what we are given, and work with it, never complaining about injustices. This is how Toi Sans survived coming over to the US in the mid 1800's. We know we aren't the best, and other people do look down on us, but it doesn't stop us from doing our thing, and eventually proving them wrong. And when we do make it to the top, we don't gloat and show off. Like we've been saying, it doesn't matter who traditionally has been the "superior" Chinese. In the end, money talks, and we have plenty of that to show who really is "superior." Yeah, all those "high class" northerners are still stuck in China, while we went overseas and made a grip of money. Who's the inferior one now? Then again, we don't have to prove anything to anyone. We just do our own thing, and don't care what others think.

I don't know if these qualities pertain to ABC's like me though, who have adapted more western ways of thinking, and never really experienced any hardship in life, unlike my parents. My parents are both Toi San, but I know for damn sure I'm not going to be marrying no Toi San poa, so these Toi San characteristics will definitely end with me. Being in America, we have forged our own identity, but I guess it's still in the genes or something.
TSJ Eric@KristinKreuk.net Wednesday, November 27, 2002 at 14:56:48 (PST) [64.163.215.168]

TSJ,

Hey again! Actually HK has some talent in the music business, just like John Woo is to the cinema, and I mean songwriting and original composition. It just happens that HK encourages the phony limelight that many celebrities love to embrace. It's all about the looks and nothing else! Do you think some of these HK actors can really act, or worse, really sing? I remember Andy Lau said he loves his Japanese fans, and he often performs in Japan. But when they ask him if he could speak even one sentence in Japanese, he shook his head 'NO'..hahahahha

F-4, Ah Mei - phony crap in my opinion. Taiwanese celebrities are just downright phony and stupid! I mean really, name something that is worthwhile to listen and watch from Taiwan? It's either those tragic love soaps or romantic pop that most people can't stand.

From what I've heard, SF is the intellectual and creative capital in the nation. NY is more financial oriented, although it's a breeding ground for unique talent as well, but it's not on the level of SF.
LSD Monday, November 25, 2002 at 10:18:03 (PST) [66.212.81.229]

LSD:

"What do you think about NY, and not SF being a candidate for the host city of the 2012 Olympics? Honestly, I think 2 of these areas are not suitable for the Olympics because of the population density and congestion."

Well, I don't think either would win against the international competition anyways. I guess NYC is the sentimental favorite because of all that happened. Also, it's the most recognizable city in the US. The Bay Area isn't nearly as congested as NYC, and the summertime weather is more suitable. They marketed it as San Francisco, but little if any events would have taken place in the actual city. Most of it would have been in the East and South Bay, with some going as far as Sacramento. Who cares, anyways. By 2012, I know I won't be living here. I'm getting bored of this place. I need to get out as soon as possible.

A-Mei mostly sings slow ballads and some rock songs. She doesn't play her own instruments, but she has this white boy in her band that really rips it. She's from Taiwan, so her songs are in Mandarin.

About the HK groups in Japan... you have to realize that HK is equivalent to a dinky little town in Japan. Just Tokyo itself is three times the size of HK. HK isn't well known for the music, but the movies is where the stars are made. The only music that really makes it big internationally is the stuff on the movie soundtracks. A lot of HK actors are stars in Japan. Japan even recruits HK to make movies for them, such as those based on anime or video games. Wicked City, Tekken, Initial D, are some examples. Also, most of the marketing and production for HK music is done in Japan by Polygram/Sony, and WEA.

For a city that small, they are pretty damn powerful in the entertainment industry. I guess it's like the Bay Area. Of course, we are not as powerful as NYC or LA, but then again, many of the people in those places aren't even from there. They just go there looking for a shot. Most of ours is homegrown talent. Look at all the acts that came from here: Metallica, Santana, Smashmouth, Third Eye Blind, Train, Green Day, Jefferson Airplane/Starship, all those gangsta rap/pimp rap acts like 2Pac, Too $hort, Spice 1, etc., and that's just scratching the surface. Many of these acts forever changed the way we look at music. I guess there is something about this area that brings out the artistry in people. I believe this region was ranked as one of the most creative in the nation.

LA and NYC gets all the publicity because all the record labels and movie studios are there, but how many of the stars are really from there?
TSJ Eric@KristinKreuk.net Thursday, November 14, 2002 at 11:01:56 (PST) [209.244.106.48]

Hey TSJ,

Yah, 80's music definately rock! Never did anything from INX, but I know their music was pretty hip.

Beyond - I gotta give credits to these guys....

No Japanese dude would respect any Chinese muscian unless he's damn good! For Beyond to penetrate the Japanese music market was an achievement in itself. Beyond was competing with the mainstream Japanese Rock bands, and if I recall, one of their songs was 35th in the Japanese music charts during their 1993 debut. We all know how talented and impressive the Japanese are, when it comes to music, and so far no HK musician have competed with any Japanese musician in the Asian music market.

I remembered reading Japanese Music magazines when Beyond made their debut album in Japan. Beyond was called the 'Kazeko' Rock band from HK. Literally, 'Kazeko' means 'crazy and powerful'. In Chinese, it is 'Fung Kong'. Beyond's musical style was based on hard rock and heavy metal, not the commercial cheesy HK crap you hear in the CD stores and shows.

Ah Mei..hahaha..is she Taiwanese? How's her guitar skills?

Yeah, we did get a lot of HK Celebs like Leslie Cheung, Jackie Cheung, and Alex To performing in Atlantic city. But after 9-11, these cowards haven't been coming! hahaha...

Yep, SF has pricey restaurants that serve good food for people with a fat wallet. That's what I heard from some people here in NY. But when it comes to ordinary food, SF should be one of the dead last in rankings! And everyone would agree.

Speaking of the SF-NY rivalry thing...people are always arguing which city/region is more desirable. SF folks complain that NY is just smelly with bad weather, and the pace of life is too fast. NY folks complain about SF being a podunk wannabe Big Apple with bad Pizza and Deli food..hahaha...

What do you think about NY, and not SF being a candidate for the host city of the 2012 Olympics? Honestly, I think 2 of these areas are not suitable for the Olympics because of the population density and congestion.
LSD Wednesday, November 13, 2002 at 11:37:14 (PST) [66.212.81.229]

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