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ASIAMS.NET |
ASIAN AMERICAN ISSUES
Are AA Women the Real Victims of Prejudice?
sian women get a free ride at the expense of Asian men. That's the received wisdom here in the U.S. This belief appears premised on the suspicion that American society sees Asian women as sexy exotics in need of rescuing from the cold clutches of Asian men who don't know how to smile except evilly.
The real victim?
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Credit Hollywood for its tireless casting of Asian women as sexual accessories to white heroes while suppressing the very existence of Asian men except as unsavory paper tigers. Credit too the TV networks that uncover bevies of talking Asian women but rarely their male counterparts.
In fairness this media fantasy of the Asian race was partly inspired by recent history. Devastated and impoverished Asian nations sent tens of thousands of war brides and orphans, followed by several million desperate immigrants willing to hock their identities while toiling to build new lives.
Male-dominated societies toast new women as exotic sexual prospects while suppressing new men as an exploitable lower class or even enemy aliens. The women get all the breaks and the men get all the lumps. Even worse, the women have their heads turned and adopt a scornful attitude toward their own men. So goes the complaint of some AA men.
The women have a different take. Sexual predators bearing insulting stereotypes must be fended off while coping with women who see them as unfair competitors. Add to that the pain of being scorned as sellouts by AA men for no more reason than their apparent welcome by American society. Worst of all, complain AA women, is being begrudged the right to take simple pleasure in their own identities. How much easier just to face straightforward racial prejudice!
Do Asian women really have an easier time in America? Or do they suffer from the double-whammy of insulting stereotypes from non-Asians and unfair persecution from Asian men?
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WHAT YOU SAY
[This page is closed to new input. --Ed.]
(Updated
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2008, 06:10:46 PM)
previously wary wf:
I'd be curious to hear more about your WM friend.
I have no problems with IR, especially in a country where minorities are well, minorities: as in highly outnumbered.
What I do have a problem with is illegitimate IR, for instance, when a minority wants to marry a member of the majority solely for the enhancement of status. We all know stories of AF who want to "marry up" and AM (as well as BM) who want to "score" with a WF, preferably blond, on their arm. Both types of behavior betray self-hate.
Conversely, I wonder about those WMs who want to date AF for the sole reason that they presume AFs to be submissive and pliable. Or even some WF who think that by marrying an AM, they can be the boss. (I've known a few like that.)
Those WMs not only have a problem with racism (even if they wax eloquent about the dainty Asian build, black hair, etc.) but a deeper problem with women in general. They refuse to accept that women can think and act for themselves, blaming it all on (white) feminism. Those men are the most contemptible and are not worthy of any relationship.
Asian Dominatrix
Sunday, July 07, 2002 at 07:52:17 (PDT)
CLT,
"WE ARE NOT VICTIMS!! The ONLY racial groups in the USA which have been true victims are African Americans and Native Americans!!"
What kind of denial is this. I mean it is not very PC to try and qualify injustice. But you cannot look back on the Chinese immigration laws and Japanese interment laws and honestly say East Asian Americans were not victims.
I mean looking far enough back in USA history even the Germans and Irish were victims. Ben Franklin once questioned the intelligence and work ethics of German Immigrants in the new world. However, we cannot just accept this behavior that new immigrant groups be looked down upon or victimized as a status quo trend.
That being said...Germans and Irish were allowed to be fully accepted in mainstream society. Asian still have not been able to reach this status yet.
AC Dropout
Sunday, July 07, 2002 at 07:45:59 (PDT)
DC Guy and CLT:
You both need to do more reading. Try:
Mari Matsuda's "Where is your body?"
Deborah Woo's "Glass Ceilings and Asian Americans"
Frank Wu's "Yellow"
These books substantiate all the prejudice that nearly ALL Asians have had to face.
True, Asians have not been oppressed to the same degree as African-Americans and Native Americans. But they have had to face up to oppression nonetheless.Ever heard of the Chinese Exclusion Act, anyone? Or the Japanese internment--where even Chinese were rounded up "Because they all look the same?" Ever heard of anti-Japanese sentiment in the 1980s? The fact is, as long as asians have been in the us, we have faced great discrimination and prejudice! Guess you haven't read your highschool US history texts too carefully, huh? Or do you even READ?
Yes, it is undeniably true that Asians are economically better off than other ethnic groups today. But if you read the Woo and Wu, you will discover that in this so-called land of equal opportunity, Asians face higher entry requirements to universities (even though we are "overrepresented") and generally STILL get paid less than whites despite having equal or greater credentials.
Finally--especially you, DC guy--if you want to know about our own personal experiences, look up the past month's posts in the Annoyances forum.
And this is only the tip of the iceberg...!
Asian Dominatrix
Saturday, July 06, 2002 at 10:08:49 (PDT)
AsianThoughts:
"But are you being racist yourself by implying that the "average" race brethren cannot be attractive to non-Asian women."
I'm not saying that average Asian guys can't date white women, but in general they don't. In general, WF only take the cream of the crop (better looking, better social skills, more money, etc.). This is why so many Asian guys who date WF prance and dance like they're God's gift to women. (And again, I'm not saying that all of them do that...but many do, and it's annoying.) And many do in fact act like this out of spite towards AF.
There is a common belief that attractive AM are not bothered by the AF preference for WM. I don't believe this for a second. All Asian people are affected by it. The out-of-control gravition towards WM has destroyed AFs' reputation for serious emotional stability and has seriously hurt AM group pride. We are all the victims. This is not to say that AM have been blameless either; we share the blame as well. And we all suffer.
And I think that it is common sense to say that AF have a unique worldview because of common experiences. Common sense dictates that common experiences shape people in common ways.
I don't know how consistent I'll be in checking this website (now that my work schedule is picking up), but feel free to send me an e-mail if you still disagree.
K. Chang
kchang880@hotmail.com
Friday, July 05, 2002 at 22:58:33 (PDT)
CLT:
"that the only TRULY oppressed people in the USA have been African Americans, and Native Americans, and that's IT. PERIOD!!...
So, my fellow Asians! Let's get off this never-ending politically correct "high horse" we're on and stop complaining about the alleged discrimination and atrocities against us perpetrated by white America!! "
I would urge you to read Ronald Takaki's Strangers from a Different Shore. Asian Americans were interned, beaten, and oppressed throughout our entire history here. The U.S. in its early history enacted laws restricting Asian American ownership of land. During the last century, Japanese Americans were interned. This trend of oppression continues to this day. Only a couple of years ago, a bunch of white college kids shouting racial slurs jumped a group of Asian kids at Buffalo. At Cornell, a young Asian woman was knocked down and sexually assaulted by another group of white men shouting racial slurs just last year.
One cannot fully know the psychological effects that this oppression has taken on our people, both men and women. But it does exist.
K. Chang
Friday, July 05, 2002 at 22:35:55 (PDT)
Asian Dominatrix,
I think both AF and AM (including myself) are both guilty of downplaying Asian features. One time, I asked some AF friends why they always get excited over "attractive" WM actors/models, like how they always praise their blonde hair or blue eyes, or his European nationality (he's Irish/French/German/Swedish/...). They don't show the same excitement over an AM.
However, they had to point out that AMs do the same thing. For example, we always describe a WF movie star/model as "hot" or "awesome", and get excited over her European nationality (she's Irish/Italian/Swedish/...). When an Asian actor/model makes it to the mainstream media (Kelly Hu, Michelle Yeoh,...), I don't see AMs describing her as "hot" or "awesome". Instead, it's more of minor amusement, like "Oh, she's Asian and at least she made it to the big screen that isn't porn-related".
Hopefully, there can be some concensus reached between AF and AM, and in the end have both of us end up in a win-win situation.
B. Lee
Friday, July 05, 2002 at 20:32:59 (PDT)
CLT:
"because they are black, and many, many, many Chinese people in China are totally ignorant, and even hateful, towards Black people!!"
I assume you're referring to those incidents a few months before 6/4 incident? That's a bit of an oversimplification. Rural Chinese who don't have an urban household registration and can't get decent jobs and schooling for their kids wondered why African foreign students get full scholarships from the government (i.e. from the taxpayers) while SOE pensions go unpaid. It's a matter of resentment and poverty, not just evil Chinese attacking blacks as you make it out to be. If you were living on a $20 a month pension you'd be kinda irritated, ignorant, and hateful too.
What about black racism against Asian people:
http://www.theamericanenterprise.org/taend98c.htm
Or against African immigrants, for that matter. "Do you speak the Ooga Booga language?":
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A57951-2002Feb23?language=printer
My point: everyone's been doing it to everyone since the beginning of time. But yeah, I agree with your point so far.
"US provides ... free enterprise, etc. whereas many countries in East Asia ... do not provide these things."
Free enterprise? Uh ... last I heard those guys in the White House who got elected on a pro-free trade platform are still screwing over all the African farmers with our billions of agricultural subsidies to American farmers. And the Korean steel producers with this "Stand Up For Steel" crap. Should I mention the FTC's overregulation of the mobile phone market which makes my friends in Taiwan think I must be bullshitting them when I tell them how much Sprint charges me every month? How about the massive misuse of eminent domain? Double taxation on corporate profits?
Many regions of Asia, such as Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia, So. Korea, and even Thailand are way ahead of the US on tariff liberalization, business licensing, government efficiency, taxes, etc. Russia instituted a flat tax in the spring. But most foreign countries are behind us on regulations regarding foreign ownership of media. So naturally the media like to remind us of this fact.
T.H. Lien
Friday, July 05, 2002 at 18:27:10 (PDT)
I am a 20 year old Filipina from New York and I definitely feel the racial vibes mentioned in this article. I believe that EVERYONE is concious of race especially those denying it.
I am extremely protective of myself when dealing with non-asian men because Asian women have become this sort of 'FAD' when it comes to dating. Non-asian guys even have the nerve to say it directly "I like Asian women because they're exotic and have nice skin" or "...because they're obedient", the first moment they meet you! Then there are lots of non-asian guys in my school that have been asking asian girls out just because they're asian and nothing else. I am so sick of it and it is very insulting!!! Unless someone hangs out with Asians often, they pretty much think all Asians look alike. Which is why I do not trust compliments coming from non-asians.
From my experiences, I've found this stereotype to be extremely helpful in many ways***. But for the most part, it's been closing me up to dating guys of non-asian decent and getting me to appreciate Asian men more.
SANEinaCRAZYworld
Friday, July 05, 2002 at 13:49:17 (PDT)
"Your example of the Asian girl being overshadowed by the white girl is exactly what I'm talking about. There was one commercial from Oil of Olay a few years back which showed women from around the world using Olay. I noticed that the clip for the Asian woman was not only the shortest, but even cut entirely in another showing of the same commercial. The racist s***s!
I don't know if you're a cat lover, but it's kinda like when cats always take second place to dogs and are nearly always portrayed as evil and shifty in contrast to the dog. But that's material for another post!"
There have been days when the Bangkok newspapers had more white women than Asian women in the make up commercials...the implication is that if you use make up, you would become "pretty and white" as these women. So, it is not just a problem here in the US.
"As for the subject of feeling threatened, I do think that some WFs--certainly not all--resent blacks and Asians pursuing professional careers."
I work for an international organization here in DC and see it all the time...many white women say that this organization should not impose "our" standard on others (non-whites) especially regarding treatment of women. Thus, it is fine with them as far as they are concerned to keep Moslem women behind veils...they would not be a threat. As far as many white American women are concerned, it would serve them well to have all non-white women behind veils in order to reduce competition. They specifically resent Asian (and particularly Chinese American) women for being modern and uppity. In the 1800s female slaves who were considered uppity were put on treadmills...too bad...cant do that any more to uppity non-white women. Another place where they talk a lot is regarding recruitment of Asian and black South African nurses...you will find all these white women pontifying about how their skills are badly needed back in their country (60 Minutes, CBS, June 10). In reality, they resent the competition of foreign and non-white women.
"And when they see Asian women dating/marrying white men--"their" men--they get even more resentful. How dare Asian women take their jobs and their men??"
I have seen white American women behave like they own all white and white looking women (including white Latinos, European and Middle Eastern, not just WASP)..."our" men...but he is not from America..."You know what I mean." Skin color, of course.
"Because these women are taught from an early age--ESPECIALLY if they're uppermiddle class and above--that they are "Daddy's little princess" and everything they want is everything they get, they get even more P.O'd. I have noticed for the most part that when white women stare at me, it's usually the conservative and usually better dressed ones, not the casual ones: you know, the rich bitch who thinks that only whites deserve to be well dressed. (I.e., it's OK for a blonde to be toting a Burberry's or LV bag while chatting on a cellphone, while an AF who does the same is materialistic and ANNOYING!)"
Feeling of aristocracy or even royalty. When I was in the UK back in 1999, I was visiting Windsor Castle...we had a big gang of white females from Savannah, GA...a High School Trip...they were boasting to the locals how "their" southern plantation houses were as big as the Windsor Castle. I just laughed...then they said...laugh all you want...how would you know...meaning you cannot possibly be from the USA, being of Asian descent.
"Liberal white women tend not to behave in so immature a manner. When I attend huge Democrat rallies, I do not encounter any of these privileged assholes. Or if they are privileged, they at least have been brought up properly and have REAL manners.(True ladies!)"
Mostly true...but not always. Do your job as a citizen and turn the corrupt Illinois GOP out of power on November 5, 2002.
Sociologist
Friday, July 05, 2002 at 13:04:16 (PDT)
"Why do so many AA women (and men, sometimes) focus on how supposedly "discriminated against" we are, how white culture "oppresses" us, etc."
Talk to folks with real world experience such as Professor Wu of Howard University. Have you ever been asked where you are really from?
"All these AAs who feel like that, who really feel ungrateful for everything America has provided us, and who think we're victims (and complain about whites all the time) should just GET A LIFE!!"
Like Wen Ho Lee who was wrongly accused and persecuted and all those South Asians who were shot dead after September 11...why? Most Arabs look like the whites and cannot be easily distinguished..so the they got the second best to Arabs...South Asians....especially Sikhs. They did not get a LIFE...they got DEATH because of attitudes of people like you.
"The US is simply the fairest, most decent country on Earth, and yet minority groups like we Asian Americans like to whine and complain about how we're supposedly "oppressed"."
"Well, the real deal, people is that the only TRULY oppressed people in the USA have been African Americans, and Native Americans, and that's IT. PERIOD!!"
You are not a Hispanic. How would you know about the Hispanic experience.
Well, how many Asian Americans are on the corporate boards...and with the exception of white majority Washington State, how many would elect a qualified Asian American as a governor?
"So, all you AA people out there who suffer from this victim mentality should just get a grip and look at how the US provides freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of religion, free enterprise, etc. whereas many countries in East Asia (with the obvious exception of Japan) do not provide these things."
Have you heard of a country called Singapore? May be not speech or expression but religion and enterprise?
"Would these AA people here in the US, who complain so much, rather live in those countries and experience the oppression there? If they did live there, would they complain about it so harshly?"
Perhaps Singapore! But, I will still rant against oppression...in the United States.
"And, if American white people lived in those countries, wouldn't THEY be discriminated against by Asian Bigots??"
There is discrimination in Asia...but in favor of whites. White people in countries such as Thailand and Malaysia live in their compounds complain about their sons dating people like you and have maids who look like you. White people are also paid a hardship allowance in these countries, and are also paid higher salaries than locals..due to what they call salary matching schemes. They pay as equivalent to the salary of your home country.
"It's well known that in CHINA, black African university students studying there have been viciously and savagely attacked by groups of Chinese youths. Some have been murdered. WHY? because they are black, and many, many, many Chinese people in China are totally ignorant, and even hateful, towards Black people!!"
In Hong Kong they drag the so-called mainland "immigrants" out of their homes and beat them up before "deporting" them to the Mainland, while they worship white women.
"So, my fellow Asians! Let's get off this never-ending politically correct "high horse" we're on and stop complaining about the alleged discrimination and atrocities against us perpetrated by white America!!"
Alleged atrocities...have you heard of Chinese Exclusion Act of the late 1800s and the Japanese internment? Unless whites become a minority in this country, I have no guarantee that we would not return to the "good old days."
"WE ARE NOT VICTIMS!! The ONLY racial groups in the USA which have been true victims are African Americans and Native Americans!!"
There are living JAs who were interned and who are victims. You need to get an education in the real American history
Historian
Friday, July 05, 2002 at 12:01:18 (PDT)
CLT,
Oh really? Asians might have never been oppressed on the same scale as have African Americans or Native Americans been. However victimizations on Asians do exist. Remember Vincent Chin? or the Japanese American internment camp? Where have you been, sister? Oppressions of Asians have not made the mark in history b/c Asians do not cry out loud enough. Imagine US goes to war with China one day, how would you be treated?
FOP
Friday, July 05, 2002 at 11:23:41 (PDT)
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